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(Washington Post)   ""It's a ruthless judgment that the preservation of power is the only object," Schiff continued. "It's how you see democracies come to an end. And it's kind of the animating principle of the Trump presidency.""   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: PSA, President of the United States, Supreme Court of the United States, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Bill Clinton, Elections, House Democrats, Supreme Court, William P. Barr  
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662 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Sep 2020 at 2:55 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-23 10:11:39 PM  
Animating principle. That's a good phrase. And the necromantic turtle in residence is the one who cast it.
 
2020-09-23 10:16:43 PM  
He's right, you know
 
2020-09-23 10:46:04 PM  
Well, unfortunately we do have Ruthless judgment now.
 
2020-09-24 12:19:55 AM  
Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?
 
2020-09-24 2:07:56 AM  
Whatever it takes to Praise Fetus. Eschew all principles of Jesus, gain power, hold it forever, and let Fetus into everyone's hearts, forcibly if necessary. The ends will justify the means.

/*Sigh*
 
2020-09-24 2:52:50 AM  
But it's not just the Trump Administration.

It's Republicans. PERIOD.
 
2020-09-24 2:54:24 AM  

gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


"Nothing is off the table."

Except everything.
 
2020-09-24 3:09:40 AM  
When you have spent your whole life yelling "White Powah!" I suppose it's difficult to come to terms with the fact that you have zero skills at wielding any sort of power at all.

/sux2bu
 
2020-09-24 3:10:33 AM  

gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


I suppose it depends on which part of the novel one thinks the US is at, the climax or resolving action.
 
2020-09-24 3:12:20 AM  

gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


*looks at calendar*

Yes, dragging the House and then Senate Democratic candidates away from their campaigns to impeach the criminal christo-fascist toad in the last 5 weeks before the election is not going to help. Voting them in, and the Traitors out, will.
 
2020-09-24 3:13:00 AM  
It's ironic that the Porn President is the one whose Supreme Court pick is probably going to outlaw porn.
 
2020-09-24 3:28:39 AM  
Wow, that headline sums up the moment, and McConnell's career, perfectly. Schiff is eloquent. Good pull, Subby.
 
2020-09-24 3:43:02 AM  
"Given that one of the two parties is a willing accomplice of the president, there are real limits to what the Congress can do," Schiff told me.

The system will not help you. The court battles are still running. The street wars have already begun.

VOTE.
 
2020-09-24 4:45:58 AM  

dodecahedron: Well, unfortunately we do have Ruthless judgment now.


Badum-passhh.
 
2020-09-24 5:08:31 AM  

koder: Whatever it takes to Praise Fetus. Eschew all principles of Jesus, gain power, hold it forever, and let Fetus into everyone's hearts, forcibly if necessary. The ends will justify the means.

/*Sigh*


ALL HAIL FETUS, FROM WHOM ALL BLESSINGS FLOW.

HAIL FETUS.
 
2020-09-24 5:13:07 AM  

erik-k: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

*looks at calendar*

Yes, dragging the House and then Senate Democratic candidates away from their campaigns to impeach the criminal christo-fascist toad in the last 5 weeks before the election is not going to help. Voting them in, and the Traitors out, will.


That's the next step.

It's also the last one before bloodshed.  Because that's already here.  It's no longer a hypothetical. The next step is armed insurgency.

Even if the Dems do somehow win, I'm afraid it will only be a delaying action.  The monster is here, it isn't going away and it's out of anyone's control.
 
2020-09-24 5:21:37 AM  

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: erik-k: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

*looks at calendar*

Yes, dragging the House and then Senate Democratic candidates away from their campaigns to impeach the criminal christo-fascist toad in the last 5 weeks before the election is not going to help. Voting them in, and the Traitors out, will.

That's the next step.

It's also the last one before bloodshed.  Because that's already here.  It's no longer a hypothetical. The next step is armed insurgency.

Even if the Dems do somehow win, I'm afraid it will only be a delaying action.  The monster is here, it isn't going away and it's out of anyone's control.


What the fark are you on about?

The only 'monster' to worry about is federal debt.
When Democrats take office next year, they will immediately push for a massive spending spree at the worst possible time, bringing on fiscal insolvency even faster.

Insolvency, with its attendant political instability, is what will ultimately bring us down, not narcissistic clowns or green loons.
 
2020-09-24 5:32:27 AM  

Animatronik: Smirky the Wonder Chimp: erik-k: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

*looks at calendar*

Yes, dragging the House and then Senate Democratic candidates away from their campaigns to impeach the criminal christo-fascist toad in the last 5 weeks before the election is not going to help. Voting them in, and the Traitors out, will.

That's the next step.

It's also the last one before bloodshed.  Because that's already here.  It's no longer a hypothetical. The next step is armed insurgency.

Even if the Dems do somehow win, I'm afraid it will only be a delaying action.  The monster is here, it isn't going away and it's out of anyone's control.

What the fark are you on about?

The only 'monster' to worry about is federal debt.
When Democrats take office next year, they will immediately push for a massive spending spree at the worst possible time, bringing on fiscal insolvency even faster.

Insolvency, with its attendant political instability, is what will ultimately bring us down, not narcissistic clowns or green loons.


"Go for the much higher numbers, it all comes back to the USA anyway." - some Democrat, probably.
 
2020-09-24 5:41:56 AM  

gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


Yep.   The democratic leadership is showing once again they are unwilling to use the dirty tactics republicans use in order to win.

I heard an interview with Elizabeth Warren where she was asked what our recourse is with this Supreme Court nominee. Her response was a feel good sentiment of the American people voicing their concern over it and their disagreement with the republican's actions.

When I heard that my thought was "well, we're screwed.  Yet again."

We need a party of AOC's.
 
2020-09-24 6:23:20 AM  
Very good, Mr Schiff. Now what are you going to do about it? Wring your hands and say there's nothing you can do?
 
2020-09-24 6:24:29 AM  

gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


It called "spinelessness".
 
2020-09-24 6:26:40 AM  

hexiadetrix: "Given that one of the two parties is a willing accomplice of the president, there are real limits to what the Congress can do," Schiff told me.

The system will not help you. The court battles are still running. The street wars have already begun.

VOTE.


Funny you think voting will work when Republicans have already said they're going to ignore the vote.
 
2020-09-24 7:23:56 AM  

Cythraul: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

Yep.   The democratic leadership is showing once again they are unwilling to use the dirty tactics republicans use in order to win.

I heard an interview with Elizabeth Warren where she was asked what our recourse is with this Supreme Court nominee. Her response was a feel good sentiment of the American people voicing their concern over it and their disagreement with the republican's actions.

When I heard that my thought was "well, we're screwed.  Yet again."

We need a party of AOC's.


What do you believe AOC could or would do that the Senate Democrats are not doing
 
2020-09-24 7:30:24 AM  

gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


You do realize that removing Barr requires a vote in the Senate, right?  The chances that the McConnell Senate will remove Barr is zero to all decimal places.  Meanwhile, as Democrats are getting everything lined up to impeach Barr, all their other priorities are demoted to second place.  You are advocating spending time to achieve nothing other than getting Barr's corruption into the news cycle for a few days right around the House and Senate votes, and McConnell is savvy enough to delay the vote until after the election, so really all you get is a few news stories before the election about allegations of Barr's corruption (diluted of course with right wing noise, half-truths, and outright lies).

Politics is the art of the possible. No idea, no matter how good, can succeed in politics if there aren't enough votes.  There's a time for quixotic symbolic actions, but now is not it.  Energy wasted on Barr is energy not spent defeating Trump.
 
2020-09-24 7:32:44 AM  
The solution to this problem has been in the House for well over 4 years.  It REALLY became available last year when the impeached Trump.  And they have been screwing the pooch the entire time.

They played a soft hand in the impeachment by going after only the easiest stuff.  The knew it wouldn't stick.  They did it anyway.  And it made no difference.  Because it all looked like a political stunt.

Then, in the time since, they have had MORE than enough evidence to impeach again, and this time they have done nothing at all.

They should have had second impeachment drafted and ready to go the SECOND the last one ended.  But they didn't.

And here we are now.  More of the Democrats warning us of the dangers of this administration, and not doing farking thing about it other than complaining with strong words.

Are we giving up?  No.  Of course not.  We already gave up.
 
2020-09-24 7:34:12 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Very good, Mr Schiff. Now what are you going to do about it? Wring your hands and say there's nothing you can do?


Very good, idiot. What can he do about it? What do you suggest? Are you farking clueless, or are you aware that Republicans control the Senate?

About the only thing that people can do at this point is vote. I have a strong suspicion he's going to do that.
 
2020-09-24 7:35:31 AM  

Pernicious Q. Varmint: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

You do realize that removing Barr requires a vote in the Senate, right?  The chances that the McConnell Senate will remove Barr is zero to all decimal places.  Meanwhile, as Democrats are getting everything lined up to impeach Barr, all their other priorities are demoted to second place.  You are advocating spending time to achieve nothing other than getting Barr's corruption into the news cycle for a few days right around the House and Senate votes, and McConnell is savvy enough to delay the vote until after the election, so really all you get is a few news stories before the election about allegations of Barr's corruption (diluted of course with right wing noise, half-truths, and outright lies).

Politics is the art of the possible. No idea, no matter how good, can succeed in politics if there aren't enough votes.  There's a time for quixotic symbolic actions, but now is not it.  Energy wasted on Barr is energy not spent defeating Trump.


It's becoming more and more clear that votes will not matter.  They may not even be counted.
 
2020-09-24 7:35:52 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

It called "spinelessness".


Instead of coming in here with your lame ass shiat, how about some concrete suggestions? Or are you just a farking troll that needs to crawl off and die?
 
2020-09-24 7:37:34 AM  

gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


Barr is simply one of the players in this power struggle. Remove him and another acolyte will pop up. The real danger is coming from the alliance that the GOP made in the 70s with evangelical Christianity. This bloc has a sense of purpose and entitlement that is the root source our slide towards Authoritarianism.

The correct answer really is to overwhelmingly defeat them at the ballot box and then implement the kind of reforms that can keep politicians from abusing power.
 
2020-09-24 7:41:46 AM  

durbnpoisn: The solution to this problem has been in the House for well over 4 years.  It REALLY became available last year when the impeached Trump.  And they have been screwing the pooch the entire time.

They played a soft hand in the impeachment by going after only the easiest stuff.  The knew it wouldn't stick.  They did it anyway.  And it made no difference.  Because it all looked like a political stunt.

Then, in the time since, they have had MORE than enough evidence to impeach again, and this time they have done nothing at all.

They should have had second impeachment drafted and ready to go the SECOND the last one ended.  But they didn't.

And here we are now.  More of the Democrats warning us of the dangers of this administration, and not doing farking thing about it other than complaining with strong words.

Are we giving up?  No.  Of course not.  We already gave up.


Please articulate what they can "do about it" other than warn? Do you understand how Congress even farking works? Do you understand that the Senate is controlled by farking Republicans? Do you understand that the Republicans are the farking fascists? Do you understand that the house can't do shiat without the Senate?

You and all these other farkheads wanting the Democrats to "do something", when they can only do some thing when they're in power. Do you and these other farkheads probably won't vote, and you're gonna give trump another four years
 
2020-09-24 7:43:46 AM  
How about a good old fashioned coup d'etat.
 
2020-09-24 7:44:11 AM  

durbnpoisn: Pernicious Q. Varmint: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

You do realize that removing Barr requires a vote in the Senate, right?  The chances that the McConnell Senate will remove Barr is zero to all decimal places.  Meanwhile, as Democrats are getting everything lined up to impeach Barr, all their other priorities are demoted to second place.  You are advocating spending time to achieve nothing other than getting Barr's corruption into the news cycle for a few days right around the House and Senate votes, and McConnell is savvy enough to delay the vote until after the election, so really all you get is a few news stories before the election about allegations of Barr's corruption (diluted of course with right wing noise, half-truths, and outright lies).

Politics is the art of the possible. No idea, no matter how good, can succeed in politics if there aren't enough votes.  There's a time for quixotic symbolic actions, but now is not it.  Energy wasted on Barr is energy not spent defeating Trump.

It's becoming more and more clear that votes will not matter.  They may not even be counted.


Right, so just stay home and don't bother. How is the weather in St. Petersburg? And I'm not talking Florida.
 
2020-09-24 7:55:15 AM  

Animatronik: The only 'monster' to worry about is federal debt.
When Democrats take office next year, they will immediately push for a massive spending spree at the worst possible time, bringing on fiscal insolvency even faster.


Glad to see you've come out of your 3-year coma.
 
2020-09-24 8:00:55 AM  

Animatronik: Smirky the Wonder Chimp: erik-k: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

*looks at calendar*

Yes, dragging the House and then Senate Democratic candidates away from their campaigns to impeach the criminal christo-fascist toad in the last 5 weeks before the election is not going to help. Voting them in, and the Traitors out, will.

That's the next step.

It's also the last one before bloodshed.  Because that's already here.  It's no longer a hypothetical. The next step is armed insurgency.

Even if the Dems do somehow win, I'm afraid it will only be a delaying action.  The monster is here, it isn't going away and it's out of anyone's control.

What the fark are you on about?

The only 'monster' to worry about is federal debt.
When Democrats take office next year, they will immediately push for a massive spending spree at the worst possible time, bringing on fiscal insolvency even faster.

Insolvency, with its attendant political instability, is what will ultimately bring us down, not narcissistic clowns or green loons.


Donald Trump has done massive damage to this nation. Same for the Republican party of the last 40+ years. It's a mess that's gonna cost money to fix, and austerity NEVER MAKES THINGS BETTER.

But Democrats are also fiscally responsible. They know that the sensible thing to do to fix this mess is to raise taxes the people and businesses that actually control the majority of the wealth. Some of them are even responsible enough to know that, yes, wealth needs to be redistributed in a BIG way. We need a strong tax base, and that means rebuilding the middle class, and that means moving money from the obscenely-wealthy downwards.

Gut the military budget, fund public healthcare, colleges and housing, raise the minimum wage a LOT, end any tax break for corporations that doesn't involve them investing in their businesses in ways that help workers, strengthen the social safety net, actually start enforcing laws against white collar crime and seizing the assets of wealthy crooks, etcetera.
 
2020-09-24 8:02:52 AM  

IndyJohn: durbnpoisn: The solution to this problem has been in the House for well over 4 years.  It REALLY became available last year when the impeached Trump.  And they have been screwing the pooch the entire time.

They played a soft hand in the impeachment by going after only the easiest stuff.  The knew it wouldn't stick.  They did it anyway.  And it made no difference.  Because it all looked like a political stunt.

Then, in the time since, they have had MORE than enough evidence to impeach again, and this time they have done nothing at all.

They should have had second impeachment drafted and ready to go the SECOND the last one ended.  But they didn't.

And here we are now.  More of the Democrats warning us of the dangers of this administration, and not doing farking thing about it other than complaining with strong words.

Are we giving up?  No.  Of course not.  We already gave up.

Please articulate what they can "do about it" other than warn? Do you understand how Congress even farking works? Do you understand that the Senate is controlled by farking Republicans? Do you understand that the Republicans are the farking fascists? Do you understand that the house can't do shiat without the Senate?

You and all these other farkheads wanting the Democrats to "do something", when they can only do some thing when they're in power. Do you and these other farkheads probably won't vote, and you're gonna give trump another four years


There IS something they can do.  They can draft an impeachment with REAL TEETH this time.  Go after the actual crimes.  Make it impossible for the GOP to simply brush it off.  Make it loud and clear.  Do it in front of the entire world.  Show all the documents.

They could enforce subpoenas to force people to testify.

This is just the tip of it.  The trouble is, they are so worried about it being impolite in a political way that they won't do it.

There are MOUNTAINS of evidence that show that Trump and everyone around him are criminals.  They could actually simply indict him and skip over the whole rule about how you're not supposed to do that.

And if the GOP is busy trying to shuffle this stuff away hoping no one will care, they won't be able to ram a new judge onto the SCOTUS.

So don't tell me there is nothing they can do.  That's crock of shiat.
 
2020-09-24 8:07:44 AM  
This shiat started with Nixon and was accelerated by that sumbiatch Reagan.
 
2020-09-24 8:14:12 AM  

durbnpoisn: IndyJohn: durbnpoisn: The solution to this problem has been in the House for well over 4 years.  It REALLY became available last year when the impeached Trump.  And they have been screwing the pooch the entire time.

They played a soft hand in the impeachment by going after only the easiest stuff.  The knew it wouldn't stick.  They did it anyway.  And it made no difference.  Because it all looked like a political stunt.

Then, in the time since, they have had MORE than enough evidence to impeach again, and this time they have done nothing at all.

They should have had second impeachment drafted and ready to go the SECOND the last one ended.  But they didn't.

And here we are now.  More of the Democrats warning us of the dangers of this administration, and not doing farking thing about it other than complaining with strong words.

Are we giving up?  No.  Of course not.  We already gave up.

Please articulate what they can "do about it" other than warn? Do you understand how Congress even farking works? Do you understand that the Senate is controlled by farking Republicans? Do you understand that the Republicans are the farking fascists? Do you understand that the house can't do shiat without the Senate?

You and all these other farkheads wanting the Democrats to "do something", when they can only do some thing when they're in power. Do you and these other farkheads probably won't vote, and you're gonna give trump another four years

There IS something they can do.  They can draft an impeachment with REAL TEETH this time.  Go after the actual crimes.  Make it impossible for the GOP to simply brush it off.  Make it loud and clear.  Do it in front of the entire world.  Show all the documents.

They could enforce subpoenas to force people to testify.

This is just the tip of it.  The trouble is, they are so worried about it being impolite in a political way that they won't do it.

There are MOUNTAINS of evidence that show that Trump and everyone around him are criminals.  They could actually simply indict him and skip over the whole rule about how you're not supposed to do that.

And if the GOP is busy trying to shuffle this stuff away hoping no one will care, they won't be able to ram a new judge onto the SCOTUS.

So don't tell me there is nothing they can do.  That's crock of shiat.


"There IS something they can do.  They can draft an impeachment with REAL TEETH this time."

LOL

An impeachment only has "teeth" if there's a chance of conviction and removal from office.

There's not.  See all those Rs in the Senate?

And even if the Wizard of Oz suddenly gifted Senate Republicans with a collective conscience and they removed Trump through impeachment, he could still be re-elected and sworn back into office.

You don't seem to understand how things actually work.

The election is the only thing that matters right now.
 
2020-09-24 8:23:56 AM  

Animatronik: Smirky the Wonder Chimp: erik-k: gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?

*looks at calendar*

Yes, dragging the House and then Senate Democratic candidates away from their campaigns to impeach the criminal christo-fascist toad in the last 5 weeks before the election is not going to help. Voting them in, and the Traitors out, will.

That's the next step.

It's also the last one before bloodshed.  Because that's already here.  It's no longer a hypothetical. The next step is armed insurgency.

Even if the Dems do somehow win, I'm afraid it will only be a delaying action.  The monster is here, it isn't going away and it's out of anyone's control.

What the fark are you on about?

The only 'monster' to worry about is federal debt.
When Democrats take office next year, they will immediately push for a massive spending spree at the worst possible time, bringing on fiscal insolvency even faster.

Insolvency, with its attendant political instability, is what will ultimately bring us down, not narcissistic clowns or green loons.


media.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-24 8:24:32 AM  

durbnpoisn: IndyJohn: durbnpoisn: The solution to this problem has been in the House for well over 4 years.  It REALLY became available last year when the impeached Trump.  And they have been screwing the pooch the entire time.

They played a soft hand in the impeachment by going after only the easiest stuff.  The knew it wouldn't stick.  They did it anyway.  And it made no difference.  Because it all looked like a political stunt.

Then, in the time since, they have had MORE than enough evidence to impeach again, and this time they have done nothing at all.

They should have had second impeachment drafted and ready to go the SECOND the last one ended.  But they didn't.

And here we are now.  More of the Democrats warning us of the dangers of this administration, and not doing farking thing about it other than complaining with strong words.

Are we giving up?  No.  Of course not.  We already gave up.

Please articulate what they can "do about it" other than warn? Do you understand how Congress even farking works? Do you understand that the Senate is controlled by farking Republicans? Do you understand that the Republicans are the farking fascists? Do you understand that the house can't do shiat without the Senate?

You and all these other farkheads wanting the Democrats to "do something", when they can only do some thing when they're in power. Do you and these other farkheads probably won't vote, and you're gonna give trump another four years

There IS something they can do.  They can draft an impeachment with REAL TEETH this time.  Go after the actual crimes.  Make it impossible for the GOP to simply brush it off.  Make it loud and clear.  Do it in front of the entire world.  Show all the documents.

They could enforce subpoenas to force people to testify.

This is just the tip of it.  The trouble is, they are so worried about it being impolite in a political way that they won't do it.

There are MOUNTAINS of evidence that show that Trump and everyone around him are criminals. ...


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08​/​31/dc-circuit-panel-kills-house-subpoe​na-power-406140

They can't, actually, enforce their subpoenas.

Impeach him again, sure. It'll just be more of the same and probably cost us the election when republicans and the media team up to wonder why Democrats are impeaching trump when everything else is going to shiat.

You might not fall for the messaging, but this election will probably be decided at the margins again, and the dipshiats who love to ignore republican malfeasance in order to howl at the Democrats will fall for it. Hook, line and sinker. Democrats will be the petty political grudge party, republicans will be the respectable statesmen.

There were mountains of evidence last time, even considering how much was suppressed. Half of America just doesn't care. If we don't outvote them in numbers they can't manipulate, we'll just be here for the next 4 years, lamenting how bad it's gotten, and swearing the people are just about to rise up, for reals this time. Then we start heading for the camps.

Vote. Convince others around you to vote. Please stop blaming the hostage for not overpowering the team of terrorists robbing the bank. It really isn't helpful.
 
2020-09-24 8:48:47 AM  
Research question: In history, what democracies have moved to authoritarian dictatorships? (I'm asking a true question because I don't know the answer. I'm assuming Cuba, Venezuela, Indonesia, and maybe a country in Africa)
 
2020-09-24 8:52:00 AM  
 
2020-09-24 8:53:07 AM  
 
2020-09-24 8:54:51 AM  
Germany was only a democracy (Republic) for 12 years before Hitler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_​R​epublic
 
2020-09-24 8:55:44 AM  

LurkLongAndProsper: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08​/​31/dc-circuit-panel-kills-house-subpoe​na-power-406140

They can't, actually, enforce their subpoenas.


BINGO!!!!!

The congressional subpoena has no legal enforcement mechanism.

And therein is where reform is needed.

And that reform won't happen unless there is a massive wave of blue votes that will overwhelm the many and varied efforts at voter disenfranchisement that the authoritarians will deploy and have deployed for decades now.

This is a coup, and it's being led by the conservative Billionaire donor class in partnership with the evangelical Christian voting bloc. This is a coup but they haven't yet quite consolidated power...Trump is their agent of chaos enlisted to complete the power grab.

And the ONLY way to halt this coup is to take this last chance we have to overwhelmingly vote these motherfuqqers out of office.
 
2020-09-24 8:58:04 AM  

IndyJohn: You don't seem to understand how things actually work.

The election is the only thing that matters right now.


Yes.  I do.  I'm just very frustrated, as is an awful lot of this country.

Which brings me to point #2.  What if they never count the votes?
We are in a situation right now where that is not only possible, but almost inevitable.

It's one of the reasons that I am so angry and frustrated.  Because there is a group of people that could put a stop to this and bring sanity back.  But they have no interest in doing that.

No one seems to be able to pinpoint the reason for this.  Because it really does appear that they are just pissing off everyone in the goddamn country, day in and day out.  And they don't seem to be concerned about that at all.

It's almost like they know that the votes will never be counted, and they have no reason to worry.

Do I know this for a fact?  Of course not.  But, man does it appear that way.
 
2020-09-24 9:09:54 AM  

durbnpoisn: IndyJohn: You don't seem to understand how things actually work.

The election is the only thing that matters right now.

Yes.  I do.  I'm just very frustrated, as is an awful lot of this country.

Which brings me to point #2.  What if they never count the votes?
We are in a situation right now where that is not only possible, but almost inevitable.

It's one of the reasons that I am so angry and frustrated.  Because there is a group of people that could put a stop to this and bring sanity back.  But they have no interest in doing that.

No one seems to be able to pinpoint the reason for this.  Because it really does appear that they are just pissing off everyone in the goddamn country, day in and day out.  And they don't seem to be concerned about that at all.

It's almost like they know that the votes will never be counted, and they have no reason to worry.

Do I know this for a fact?  Of course not.  But, man does it appear that way.


I understand that people are apprehensive and frustrated. But literally the only thing to do right now is vote and encourage other people to vote. If the votes aren't actually counted, this country is falling into a pit.  But that's also going to happen if people stay home and let Trump get elected based on the vote.
 
2020-09-24 9:13:47 AM  

gilgigamesh: Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


It might merely be exhausting possible countermeasures within the rule of law before advocating those outside it.
 
2020-09-24 9:18:57 AM  

durbnpoisn: Which brings me to point #2.  What if they never count the votes?
We are in a situation right now where that is not only possible, but almost inevitable.

It's one of the reasons that I am so angry and frustrated.  Because there is a group of people that could put a stop to this and bring sanity back.  But they have no interest in doing that.

No one seems to be able to pinpoint the reason for this.  Because it really does appear that they are just pissing off everyone in the goddamn country, day in and day out.  And they don't seem to be concerned about that at all.

It's almost like they know that the votes will never be counted, and they have no reason to worry.

Do I know this for a fact?  Of course not.  But, man does it appear that way.


This is BULLshiat and defeatist.

Go read the text of HB1 passed as soon as Democrats took control of the house in early 2018.
It's a major reform bill that is being suppressed by the Senate.

Nothing changes because we NEED THE SENATE TO BRING ABOUT CHANGE

And that is where you are not only wrong, but damaging our chances to sweep the GOP out of power by
repeating this defeatism. And...the message of despair is actually part of the mis-information campaign and
it's purpose is to get voters to give up, to not vote, to concede without a fight.

Don't give up hope.
 
2020-09-24 9:22:29 AM  

gilgigamesh: Schiff told me there's some worry that impeaching Barr might be perceived as overly partisan, even if serious censure is justified, and perhaps backfire against its intended goal.

I'm sorry, he just described Barr's capacity to pervert the justice dept to get Trump reelected as "bottomless," and then he writes off any effort to remove Barr, suggesting instead the answer is voting in massive numbers.

Am I missing something here? This sounds like just giving up. Are we just giving up?


I have a very left wing friend who is very into the idea of just giving up on investigations into what happened with Russia because (his words) "literally nobody cares".

According to him if you investigate Russia anymore that's all you can care about at all and that's not a platform.

But of course to him the Dems all colluded against Sanders because forming a coalition of like minds in politics has never happened before.

And Warren "kneecapped" Bernie by not doing what he is so mad at Biden's coalition for doing.

And Buttigieg is a rat, and other people are snakes.

But barely a peep about the Republicans. And actively discourages further fact finding about foreign interference in our elections.

So yea, there's a lot of people out there who're fine with just giving up.
 
2020-09-24 9:33:34 AM  

durbnpoisn: IndyJohn: You don't seem to understand how things actually work.

The election is the only thing that matters right now.

Yes.  I do.  I'm just very frustrated, as is an awful lot of this country.

Which brings me to point #2.  What if they never count the votes?
We are in a situation right now where that is not only possible, but almost inevitable.

It's one of the reasons that I am so angry and frustrated.  Because there is a group of people that could put a stop to this and bring sanity back.  But they have no interest in doing that.

No one seems to be able to pinpoint the reason for this.  Because it really does appear that they are just pissing off everyone in the goddamn country, day in and day out.  And they don't seem to be concerned about that at all.

It's almost like they know that the votes will never be counted, and they have no reason to worry.

Do I know this for a fact?  Of course not.  But, man does it appear that way.


If the votes aren't counted electors are chosen by your states' Congress, thus it is important to show up to every election for your state representative to ensure your will is still heard.

If the votes and electors aren't chosen the House, at a count of one vote per state - decides the election, thus it is important to show up to every election for your district's representative.

If there is some constitutional issue with the vote, it will be decided by the Supreme Court. This is the President's choice, but it vetted by the Senate. Thus it is important to vote for your states' Senators to ensure your voice is heard in appointments.

Voting matters beyond the Presidency. It matters all the way down the chain.

By all means protest injustice and stay active, but you have to vote too.
 
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