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(Yahoo)   Wait. If GM was supplying the Badger's battery and drive train, what the hell was Nikola bringing to the table? GM already has truck bodys, truck tires, truck brakes, truck steering, truck nutz   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Electric vehicle, Fuel cell, Electric car, zero-emissions vehicle maker Nikola, Tesla Motors, electric vehicle manufacturer, firm Hindenburg, Automotive industry  
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1661 clicks; posted to Fandom » and Business » on 23 Sep 2020 at 11:54 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-23 5:12:04 PM  
Truck gumbo, truck creole, truck and grits...
 
2020-09-23 5:15:11 PM  
Fraud?
 
2020-09-23 5:17:39 PM  
NIKO
LA
 
2020-09-23 5:18:54 PM  
They're going to throw in GM's quality dealership training as well.
 
2020-09-23 5:19:11 PM  

foo monkey: Fraud?


Evidently. I think we found the male version of Liz Holmes.
 
Xai [TotalFark]
2020-09-23 5:35:55 PM  
IP
 
2020-09-23 5:43:09 PM  
Money laundering?
 
2020-09-23 7:01:59 PM  

Xai: IP


Imaginary Participation?
 
2020-09-23 7:34:32 PM  
The other half of the Tesla name?
 
2020-09-23 9:23:19 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


They could have sold some stock to pay GM, but that's not looking so good right now. June 4 was when the reverse takover/IPO started trading
 
2020-09-24 12:01:51 AM  
A vehicle interior that doesn't fall apart after 500 miles
 
2020-09-24 12:16:43 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-24 12:17:31 AM  
The shifter knob?
 
2020-09-24 12:17:31 AM  
A phobia about women wearing pearls?
 
2020-09-24 12:28:53 AM  
Nikola brings a sweet one-legged jumper, and a dope passing game.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-24 12:32:09 AM  

OkieDookie: A vehicle interior that doesn't fall apart after 500 miles


I was about to say an interior worth driving in. GM is hellbent on never making a good interior. Even accidentally.
 
2020-09-24 12:40:53 AM  
Oh come on.  Everybody knows Nikola has those proprietary gizwadjits.
 
2020-09-24 1:11:41 AM  
Traditional manufacturers don't want to commit to EVs. They have an archaic system of suppliers, dealers, and a host of other contracts that would make it hard to release a vehicle that cuts all of those parasite businesses out. The best way to get around that rat's nest is to partner with a startup and offer manufacturing expertise and capital in exchange for ownership or a cost+ kind of setup. GM is also very involved with Lordstown and one other manufacturer, I think.
 
2020-09-24 1:34:18 AM  
The sizzle, baby!
 
2020-09-24 2:02:03 AM  
 
2020-09-24 2:21:55 AM  

Likwit: Traditional manufacturers don't want to commit to EVs. They have an archaic system of suppliers, dealers, and a host of other contracts that would make it hard to release a vehicle that cuts all of those parasite businesses out. The best way to get around that rat's nest is to partner with a startup and offer manufacturing expertise and capital in exchange for ownership or a cost+ kind of setup. GM is also very involved with Lordstown and one other manufacturer, I think.


Ford already has committed to EV, has one coming out soon(the Mach E is literally any day now, various magazines have reviews up and Ford is now taking "orders" not "preorders"), and is about 2 years away from an electric F150.  You still need brakes, drivetrain, leather seats, etc etc.  Suppliers aren't the problem.  The problem is perfecting the tech.
 
2020-09-24 2:25:23 AM  

bhcompy: Likwit: Traditional manufacturers don't want to commit to EVs. They have an archaic system of suppliers, dealers, and a host of other contracts that would make it hard to release a vehicle that cuts all of those parasite businesses out. The best way to get around that rat's nest is to partner with a startup and offer manufacturing expertise and capital in exchange for ownership or a cost+ kind of setup. GM is also very involved with Lordstown and one other manufacturer, I think.

Ford already has committed to EV, has one coming out soon(the Mach E is literally any day now, various magazines have reviews up and Ford is now taking "orders" not "preorders"), and is about 2 years away from an electric F150.  You still need brakes, drivetrain, leather seats, etc etc.  Suppliers aren't the problem.  The problem is perfecting the tech.


Two whole electric vehicles? Wow. That's incredible!
 
2020-09-24 2:29:21 AM  

Likwit: bhcompy: Likwit: Traditional manufacturers don't want to commit to EVs. They have an archaic system of suppliers, dealers, and a host of other contracts that would make it hard to release a vehicle that cuts all of those parasite businesses out. The best way to get around that rat's nest is to partner with a startup and offer manufacturing expertise and capital in exchange for ownership or a cost+ kind of setup. GM is also very involved with Lordstown and one other manufacturer, I think.

Ford already has committed to EV, has one coming out soon(the Mach E is literally any day now, various magazines have reviews up and Ford is now taking "orders" not "preorders"), and is about 2 years away from an electric F150.  You still need brakes, drivetrain, leather seats, etc etc.  Suppliers aren't the problem.  The problem is perfecting the tech.

Two whole electric vehicles? Wow. That's incredible!


Tesla has like 3?
 
2020-09-24 2:39:26 AM  
I think Ford started late, but they have a sensible approach by offering a electric crossover and planning for an electric version of their best-selling truck. Tesla may have spread themselves too thin announcing all those models, all of which have now been delayed.

If Ford can stick the landing on the electric F-150 (and that's a big if) they will instantly become a leader in the EV market, full stop. They can then move on to full-size SUVs and whatnot.
 
2020-09-24 3:04:21 AM  

Nadie_AZ: Money laundering?


Nope. Likely a planned pump and dump. In this case, people figured out the scam before the main shareholders could dump stock and make money.
 
2020-09-24 3:12:55 AM  

bhcompy: Likwit: bhcompy: Likwit: Traditional manufacturers don't want to commit to EVs. They have an archaic system of suppliers, dealers, and a host of other contracts that would make it hard to release a vehicle that cuts all of those parasite businesses out. The best way to get around that rat's nest is to partner with a startup and offer manufacturing expertise and capital in exchange for ownership or a cost+ kind of setup. GM is also very involved with Lordstown and one other manufacturer, I think.

Ford already has committed to EV, has one coming out soon(the Mach E is literally any day now, various magazines have reviews up and Ford is now taking "orders" not "preorders"), and is about 2 years away from an electric F150.  You still need brakes, drivetrain, leather seats, etc etc.  Suppliers aren't the problem.  The problem is perfecting the tech.

Two whole electric vehicles? Wow. That's incredible!

Tesla has like 3?


Four with three more and two semis planned. Plus, they only sell electric cars. Ford has dozens of gas cars that they plan to sell if and until it's made illegal and only two electric cars in the pipeline (publicly, at least).
 
2020-09-24 3:22:40 AM  
I should clarify, I really like the Mustang Mach E. I especially like that the name made Boomers and Zoomers so upset.
 
2020-09-24 4:11:17 AM  

Xai: IP


That's what I thought, but apparently not, if it is being investigated. This is going to be the big fraud story of 2021. But I agree with you, it will probably involve inventing some new case law about IP to deal with the defense argument. By "argument" I emphasize the "Argh" part.
 
2020-09-24 4:15:34 AM  

Likwit: Four with three more and two semis planned. Plus, they only sell electric cars. Ford has dozens of gas cars that they plan to sell if and until it's made illegal and only two electric cars in the pipeline (publicly, at least).


And a few years ago where was Tesla?

Anyways, Ford also has an electric Transit, a crossover platform for Ford/Lincoln, and a luxury SUV for Lincoln all due out by 2022/2023.  The F-150s and Transits are primarily being designed for fleets first, and Ford sells more fleet vehicles every year than Tesla produces overall.  Lots of built in sales for high usage customers that will get the real polluters off the road.  Tesla, on the other hand, is completely foregoing fleet with a truck design that doesn't offer much utility at all.
 
2020-09-24 4:19:09 AM  
Hype, by trying to piggy-back on the Tesla name & reputation?
 
2020-09-24 4:20:06 AM  

bhcompy: Likwit: Four with three more and two semis planned. Plus, they only sell electric cars. Ford has dozens of gas cars that they plan to sell if and until it's made illegal and only two electric cars in the pipeline (publicly, at least).

And a few years ago where was Tesla?

Anyways, Ford also has an electric Transit, a crossover platform for Ford/Lincoln, and a luxury SUV for Lincoln all due out by 2022/2023.  The F-150s and Transits are primarily being designed for fleets first, and Ford sells more fleet vehicles every year than Tesla produces overall.  Lots of built in sales for high usage customers that will get the real polluters off the road.  Tesla, on the other hand, is completely foregoing fleet with a truck design that doesn't offer much utility at all.


They were all electric then too and stirring up hype. Even if you hate Tesla and Elon Musk, you can't deny their impact.
 
2020-09-24 4:21:53 AM  
A giant death ray powered by the earth's elecricity?
 
2020-09-24 4:38:58 AM  

bhcompy: Ford already has committed to EV, has one coming out soon(the Mach E is literally any day now, various magazines have reviews up and Ford is now taking "orders" not "preorders"), and is about 2 years away from an electric F150.  You still need brakes, drivetrain, leather seats, etc etc.  Suppliers aren't the problem.  The problem is perfecting the tech.


OK, I'm not an expert on cars... but I'm 90% sure you don't need a drivetrain with an electric vehicle. On a Tesla the motor sits on the axle, or axles if you have dual motor.
 
2020-09-24 5:30:04 AM  

Telos: bhcompy: Ford already has committed to EV, has one coming out soon(the Mach E is literally any day now, various magazines have reviews up and Ford is now taking "orders" not "preorders"), and is about 2 years away from an electric F150.  You still need brakes, drivetrain, leather seats, etc etc.  Suppliers aren't the problem.  The problem is perfecting the tech.

OK, I'm not an expert on cars... but I'm 90% sure you don't need a drivetrain with an electric vehicle. On a Tesla the motor sits on the axle, or axles if you have dual motor.


The drivetrain is anything that sits between the motor and wheels, so unless they're going with motors coupled directly to the wheels, they'll still need axles, driveshafts, differentials, etc.  And ones that can handle the crazy, instant torque an electric motor puts out.
 
2020-09-24 5:35:09 AM  

freakdiablo: Telos: bhcompy: Ford already has committed to EV, has one coming out soon(the Mach E is literally any day now, various magazines have reviews up and Ford is now taking "orders" not "preorders"), and is about 2 years away from an electric F150.  You still need brakes, drivetrain, leather seats, etc etc.  Suppliers aren't the problem.  The problem is perfecting the tech.

OK, I'm not an expert on cars... but I'm 90% sure you don't need a drivetrain with an electric vehicle. On a Tesla the motor sits on the axle, or axles if you have dual motor.

The drivetrain is anything that sits between the motor and wheels, so unless they're going with motors coupled directly to the wheels, they'll still need axles, driveshafts, differentials, etc.  And ones that can handle the crazy, instant torque an electric motor puts out.


Lordstown Endurance 👍
 
2020-09-24 6:01:36 AM  

bhcompy: Likwit: Traditional manufacturers don't want to commit to EVs. They have an archaic system of suppliers, dealers, and a host of other contracts that would make it hard to release a vehicle that cuts all of those parasite businesses out. The best way to get around that rat's nest is to partner with a startup and offer manufacturing expertise and capital in exchange for ownership or a cost+ kind of setup. GM is also very involved with Lordstown and one other manufacturer, I think.

Ford already has committed to EV, has one coming out soon(the Mach E is literally any day now, various magazines have reviews up and Ford is now taking "orders" not "preorders"), and is about 2 years away from an electric F150.  You still need brakes, drivetrain, leather seats, etc etc.  Suppliers aren't the problem.  The problem is perfecting the tech.


I'm going to be sorely disappointed if someone with a Mach E doesn't end up with an "AVELLI" license plate.
 
2020-09-24 7:21:40 AM  
The hookers and blow!
 
2020-09-24 7:36:37 AM  
Hype. Hype is extremely important in this business.
 
2020-09-24 7:36:41 AM  
thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-24 7:38:08 AM  
No unions?


freakdiablo: The drivetrain is anything that sits between the motor and wheels, so unless they're going with motors coupled directly to the wheels, they'll still need axles, driveshafts, differentials, etc.  And ones that can handle the crazy, instant torque an electric motor puts out.


There's not much of a physical drive train, but the motor controllers that can handle the dynamics of being in a car (vibration, shock, heat, cold, rapid changes in voltage and current) are pretty tricky to get correct and affordable.
 
2020-09-24 8:14:10 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-24 9:06:11 AM  
People being excited about your brand. GM makes some nice EVs - it is a shame that their best one (the Menlo) is exclusively for the Chinese market. But Bolt is a fine, if boring car, that does everything you want in a car for a decent price and is all-electric.
 
2020-09-24 9:07:24 AM  

meanmutton: People being excited about your brand. GM makes some nice EVs - it is a shame that their best one (the Menlo) is exclusively for the Chinese market. But Bolt is a fine, if boring car, that does everything you want in a car for a decent price and is all-electric.


Hit send too soon.

But- people don't care about EVs from legacy car makers. They don't get excited about a GM or a Ford or a Kia or a VW electric car. They get excited for Tesla and Rivian and Nikolai.
 
2020-09-24 9:20:40 AM  

bhcompy: Likwit: Four with three more and two semis planned. Plus, they only sell electric cars. Ford has dozens of gas cars that they plan to sell if and until it's made illegal and only two electric cars in the pipeline (publicly, at least).

And a few years ago where was Tesla?

Anyways, Ford also has an electric Transit, a crossover platform for Ford/Lincoln, and a luxury SUV for Lincoln all due out by 2022/2023.  The F-150s and Transits are primarily being designed for fleets first, and Ford sells more fleet vehicles every year than Tesla produces overall.  Lots of built in sales for high usage customers that will get the real polluters off the road.  Tesla, on the other hand, is completely foregoing fleet with a truck design that doesn't offer much utility at all.


For an auto company whose electric car vision is so amazing and is poised to outcompete Tesla, I do have to say Ford's share price is awful.  While I admit share price isn't everything, if Ford was such an up and coming EV competitor, you'd think the institutional investors would be all over Ford stock.  Yet they avoid their stock like it's radioactive.

There is a fairly good chance Ford won't be around in 5, 10 years.
 
2020-09-24 10:07:19 AM  
Why pay for a first name?

Being in a workshop, pump out insane numbers built purely on economies of scale and flood the market.

I'll buy an Edison.
 
2020-09-24 10:12:57 AM  

SirEattonHogg: bhcompy: Likwit: Four with three more and two semis planned. Plus, they only sell electric cars. Ford has dozens of gas cars that they plan to sell if and until it's made illegal and only two electric cars in the pipeline (publicly, at least).

And a few years ago where was Tesla?

Anyways, Ford also has an electric Transit, a crossover platform for Ford/Lincoln, and a luxury SUV for Lincoln all due out by 2022/2023.  The F-150s and Transits are primarily being designed for fleets first, and Ford sells more fleet vehicles every year than Tesla produces overall.  Lots of built in sales for high usage customers that will get the real polluters off the road.  Tesla, on the other hand, is completely foregoing fleet with a truck design that doesn't offer much utility at all.

For an auto company whose electric car vision is so amazing and is poised to outcompete Tesla, I do have to say Ford's share price is awful.  While I admit share price isn't everything, if Ford was such an up and coming EV competitor, you'd think the institutional investors would be all over Ford stock.  Yet they avoid their stock like it's radioactive.

There is a fairly good chance Ford won't be around in 5, 10 years.



Okay, this thread has officially turning into a kool-aid drinking jerk-off.  The author of TFA isn't even trying to be objective.  He should be reporting objectively on the clear facts of the GM Nicola endeavor and how sketchy the entire enterprise has become.  But, he can't seem to go 2 paragraphs without pausing to deepthroat Tesla.

Look, I like Tesla.  I love the fact that a lot of investors lost their shirt trying to short them.  I love that they have given the auto industry the kick in the ass that it needs to start producing appealing mainstream electric cars instead of weird garbage like the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt.

But I don't love that Musk and his company are trying to cultivate the same weird cult like mentality in their userbase as that Apple and Steve Jobs gifted us.  I also don't care for the Quality control issues that Teslas have because they are cutting corners to try to meet their quotas.  And I don't care for that fact that pointing out those QC issues sends Tesla fanboys into a religious rage.
 
2020-09-24 10:17:08 AM  
Poise!
 
2020-09-24 10:31:54 AM  

SirEattonHogg: you'd think the institutional investors would be all over Ford stock.  Yet they avoid their stock like it's radioactive.


I thought we'd established by now that the stonk market is a bit out of sync with reality. Tesla is way overvalued from a pure fundamentals perspective, and so is most of the market.

SirEattonHogg: There is a fairly good chance Ford won't be around in 5, 10 years.


Edgy. Let's compare Bronco sales to Model Y sales in a couple years.

/no pun intended
//wants a Bronco
///also a Model Y
 
2020-09-24 10:38:58 AM  

v2micca: SirEattonHogg: bhcompy: Likwit: Four with three more and two semis planned. Plus, they only sell electric cars. Ford has dozens of gas cars that they plan to sell if and until it's made illegal and only two electric cars in the pipeline (publicly, at least).

And a few years ago where was Tesla?

Anyways, Ford also has an electric Transit, a crossover platform for Ford/Lincoln, and a luxury SUV for Lincoln all due out by 2022/2023.  The F-150s and Transits are primarily being designed for fleets first, and Ford sells more fleet vehicles every year than Tesla produces overall.  Lots of built in sales for high usage customers that will get the real polluters off the road.  Tesla, on the other hand, is completely foregoing fleet with a truck design that doesn't offer much utility at all.

For an auto company whose electric car vision is so amazing and is poised to outcompete Tesla, I do have to say Ford's share price is awful.  While I admit share price isn't everything, if Ford was such an up and coming EV competitor, you'd think the institutional investors would be all over Ford stock.  Yet they avoid their stock like it's radioactive.

There is a fairly good chance Ford won't be around in 5, 10 years.


Okay, this thread has officially turning into a kool-aid drinking jerk-off.  The author of TFA isn't even trying to be objective.  He should be reporting objectively on the clear facts of the GM Nicola endeavor and how sketchy the entire enterprise has become.  But, he can't seem to go 2 paragraphs without pausing to deepthroat Tesla.

Look, I like Tesla.  I love the fact that a lot of investors lost their shirt trying to short them.  I love that they have given the auto industry the kick in the ass that it needs to start producing appealing mainstream electric cars instead of weird garbage like the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt.

But I don't love that Musk and his company are trying to cultivate the same weird cult like mentality in their userbase as that Apple and Ste ...

My comments are on the idea that Ford will somehow out compete Tesla.  Franky, with Ford's enormous debt load, I question whether Ford will survive in its current form in the next 5 to 10 years and I think Ford's share price reflects it perfectly cromulent future. None of the "Detroit Three" seem particularly with it.  Another example: With its large resources, its corporate experts, its decades of experience and its army of attorneys, GM somehow picked Nikola to partner with in its EV play.  GM didn't lose any money and was on the favorable side of that deal, but that's embarrassing and calls into question their competence as a future player.  I don't think me mentioning this makes me an Eion Musk cult member.
 
2020-09-24 11:48:59 AM  

centrifugal bumblepuppy: [Fark user image image 550x437]

They could have sold some stock to pay GM, but that's not looking so good right now. June 4 was when the reverse takover/IPO started trading


Oooooh they did a reverse takeover?
 
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