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(Billboard)   "The National Independent Venues Association says that nine out of 10 of its nearly 3,000 members will close their businesses by October without meaningful financial assistance from the federal government"   (billboard.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Music venue, Federal government of the United States, Economics, Independent music venues, U.S. state, Nightclub, growing number of independent venues, music venues  
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1841 clicks; posted to Politics » and Entertainment » on 23 Sep 2020 at 3:45 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-23 3:13:04 PM  
Upright Citizens Brigade, A LiveNation venue.
 
2020-09-23 3:20:33 PM  
To say this sucks isn't emphatic enough. Many venues survive in a precarious state in good times.

Cosmic Charlies in Lexington, KY was a regular venue for my band. The owners have run various venues in town for decades; different bands I was in played those venues. I hope they can find their way through this era to open someplace new.
 
2020-09-23 3:52:39 PM  
Maybe they should try giving some money directly to actual people. Naw, we can't have that happen again.
 
2020-09-23 3:53:09 PM  
In other words,
The National Independent Venues Association says that nine out of 10 of its nearly 3,000 members will close their businesses by October.
 
2020-09-23 3:54:08 PM  
Coming soon: Amazon Auditorium and Wal-Mart Music Hall.
 
2020-09-23 3:54:21 PM  
at least I protected you from Nickelback concerts.

// you're welcome
 
2020-09-23 3:54:45 PM  
It does suck. But it should have been obvious since roughly April, that if your job involves putting lots of people together in small spaces, it might be time to look for a different line of work for awhile. Having multiple botched responses to the virus, along with a large minority of people who just don't farking listen to anybody, did not make getting past this go any faster.
 
2020-09-23 3:54:58 PM  
The rex theatre announced it was closing yesterday,
 
2020-09-23 3:56:12 PM  
Maybe if they didnt wait till the last minute to tell somebody. Jeez.
 
2020-09-23 3:57:00 PM  
This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?
 
2020-09-23 3:57:27 PM  

pdieten: It does suck. But it should have been obvious since roughly April, that if your job involves putting lots of people together in small spaces, it might be time to look for a different line of work for awhile. Having multiple botched responses to the virus, along with a large minority of people who just don't farking listen to anybody, did not make getting past this go any faster.


thats great, it says nothing to the people who OWN the buildings who cant make rent, which means they will close and probably get turned in to condos and apts

most of the crews have been looking for work but if you were a soundman for 20 years and your entire industry shuts down, and there is massive unemployment what would suggest these folks do ?
 
2020-09-23 3:59:18 PM  
I see the problem. Should've called themselves the National Independent Revenues Association.

Oh well, that'll learn 'em.
 
2020-09-23 3:59:21 PM  
Who doesn't enjoy a good Independent Ven?
 
2020-09-23 3:59:46 PM  

Walker: Ivanka created 15 million jobs


What she does to her dad doesnt really count as a paying job.
 
2020-09-23 4:00:11 PM  

Walker: This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?


Jesus farking christ.  Some of you really need to get help.
 
2020-09-23 4:00:12 PM  

Skeleton Man: Coming soon: Amazon Auditorium and Wal-Mart Music Hall.


I can see the first (as a chain, with Prime Perks), not the second.
 
2020-09-23 4:00:19 PM  

majestic: Maybe they should try giving some money directly to actual people. Naw, we can't have that happen again.


When did that happen before and what is stopping you from doing so now
 
2020-09-23 4:00:30 PM  

dothemath: Maybe if they didnt wait till the last minute to tell somebody. Jeez.


Most of understood early on that we'd have to bite the bullet for a few months, and take an economic hit, to fight Covid-19. But it would be short-lived and we'd recover. President Magical Thinking didn't want to do that and we'll instead take a much larger hit for a much longer time.
 
2020-09-23 4:02:39 PM  

kindms: pdieten: It does suck. But it should have been obvious since roughly April, that if your job involves putting lots of people together in small spaces, it might be time to look for a different line of work for awhile. Having multiple botched responses to the virus, along with a large minority of people who just don't farking listen to anybody, did not make getting past this go any faster.

thats great, it says nothing to the people who OWN the buildings who cant make rent, which means they will close and probably get turned in to condos and apts

most of the crews have been looking for work but if you were a soundman for 20 years and your entire industry shuts down, and there is massive unemployment what would suggest these folks do ?


Why would someone who owns a building pay rent?
 
2020-09-23 4:04:19 PM  

Jeebus Saves: Walker: This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?

Jesus farking christ.  Some of you really need to get help.


Pointing out facts means I need to get help?
If you're living in that alternate reality maybe you need to get help.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/8/21212802​/​trump-ivanka-10-percent-jobs-walmart-1​5-million

Or do you agree with me that Trump does say these things, but they are lies, but you still support him?
In that case you still need help.
 
2020-09-23 4:05:08 PM  
Christ.  Wasn't it just last week we found signs of life on that stink hole?  Of course they'd be asking for government handouts almost immediately.
 
2020-09-23 4:05:44 PM  
The theater near me over the years has changed, first they added stadium seating, then digital projection, and then about a year ago they became AMC and now they are closed and no longer listed on the AMC site. I'm hoping it becomes the new $1 theater when/if it reopens, since our $1 theater became a real theater last summer.
 
2020-09-23 4:06:31 PM  
Canadian culture wishes it had the money that the USA has to throw at these problems.

Toronto has been seeing a catastrophic closure in music venues. The rent is too high, basically. City Hall stepped in to help in 2017. Toronto is a really big incubator for reggae and ska (largest Caribbean city outside the Caribbean), punk, and hip hop (Drake is just the visible tip of a really active iceberg).

The CERB is going to save a lot of the music industry workers. However, the sheer volume of guitars, amps, and pedals up for sale on Kijiji right now is startling. That's not career musicians, but it means audiences are getting out of the scene, and workers who bartend, do sound, teach one-on-one, are leaving the industry because, again, the rent is too damn high.

If Toronto venues and workers are farked this bad, en masse, either MAPL and the Canada Council need to step in with huge arts grants, or else we will lose one of the world's important incubators for current music.
 
2020-09-23 4:07:00 PM  
Free market, let it freely die.
If there is a time when we don't need venues then we don't, you know like how we don't need mass manufacturing of wooden boat cargo shipping fleets.
OR we need so few horse drawn carts, that guess what, tons and tons of them all went out of business.

Imagine us still paying monye to horse drawn cart makers for the last hundred years cause demand for horse drawn carts still has not gone back up.

You can go under, you probably should. We probably get a VASTLY SUPERIOR VALUE RETURN to just give that money directly to people loosing their jobs from not enough demand for that business any more. Then we do to give the money to the business itself, which only lays off staff anyway.

So go under, it is ok, we won;t be that bad off at all. And if some day in the future there is a demand for venues. guess what the entrepreneurs are going to see as the next growth market?
 
2020-09-23 4:08:07 PM  

Jeebus Saves: Walker: This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?

Jesus farking christ.  Some of you really need to get help.


We're planning on hiring that help on November 3rd.

The person whose sarcastic comment you responded to is right to bring up the Trump administration. This is a direct result of the crime against humanity he has committed which has resulted in over 200,000 Americans being sent to the grave (and the real number with the benefit of hindsight and without the Trump admin partisan loyalists cooking the books will almost certainly turn out to have been much higher). It would be stranger to pretend - for no apparent reason - that it didn't.
 
2020-09-23 4:10:26 PM  
You expect this hamfisted constipated muck fire of a government to help you with one week's notice. Let me laugh harder.
 
2020-09-23 4:10:37 PM  
Have any of these venues thought about being a Supreme Court Justice? I hear there a lot of people who seem to care about those more than others
 
2020-09-23 4:10:43 PM  
THIS IS IT:

The final battle between Pearl Jam, and Ticketmaster!

Who will survive?!
 
2020-09-23 4:12:10 PM  

aungen: THIS IS IT:

The final battle between Pearl Jam, and Ticketmaster!

Who will survive?!


Pretty sure ticketmaster won that
 
2020-09-23 4:13:11 PM  
I'm not sure the doom and gloom scenario is warranted in re the "gentrification" comment.

Converting a music venue to apartments is an expensive and awkward task - they typically don't have windows, you need to completely rethink plumbing, etc.  If I was in commercial real estate and owned space like that, apartment conversion would be the last thing on my mind.
 
2020-09-23 4:14:48 PM  

PvtStash: Free market, let it freely die.If there is a time when we don't need venues then we don't, you know like how we don't need mass manufacturing of wooden boat cargo shipping fleets.OR we need so few horse drawn carts, that guess what, tons and tons of them all went out of business.


....says a person that has supports a party desperate to subsidize coal, give hundreds of billions in tax breaks to oil and gas companies while they're making record profits, all while propping up our manufacturing industry through tariffs on other countries (I could go on and give another 30 examples, but you don't really care)....

Venues are dying not because of lack of demand.  It's a national emergency, dipshiat.  A temporary situation easily remedied for the time needed.  Technological advance didn't kill the need for music venues, a virus is temporarily making it difficult to operate.
 
2020-09-23 4:16:14 PM  
"The National Independent Venues Association, a new trade group that formed in April in response to the pandemic, says that nine out of 10 of its nearly 3,000 members will close their businesses..."

Maybe you shouldn't have started an organization full of members whose existence was under threat when they joined.
 
2020-09-23 4:17:41 PM  

chitownmike: aungen: THIS IS IT:

The final battle between Pearl Jam, and Ticketmaster!

Who will survive?!

Pretty sure ticketmaster won that


NO!  Pearl Jam has them against the ropes, right now!
 
2020-09-23 4:19:30 PM  

chitownmike: majestic: Maybe they should try giving some money directly to actual people. Naw, we can't have that happen again.

When did that happen before and what is stopping you from doing so now


You remember that time a few months back when the proles were getting an extra $600/wk in unemployment benefits? Seems like lord Trump even personally signed a few stimulus checks. But we can't possibly afford to do anything like that again, can we?
 
2020-09-23 4:22:50 PM  

Walker: Jeebus Saves: Walker: This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?

Jesus farking christ.  Some of you really need to get help.

Pointing out facts means I need to get help?
If you're living in that alternate reality maybe you need to get help.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/8/21212802/​trump-ivanka-10-percent-jobs-walmart-1​5-million

Or do you agree with me that Trump does say these things, but they are lies, but you still support him?
In that case you still need help.


What the fark does what you said have to do with the article?  People like you cant help but to come in to every thread and try to make some conspiracy level leap in logic to make it about trump.  Learn to control yourself.
 
2020-09-23 4:23:19 PM  
That's something I don't think most people understand. Artists, musicians, music venue owners, restaurants, bars, casinos, vacation resorts, all of those contain workers who don't necessarily want to be stuck in a cubicle, or have to work from home. They love entertaining people. When folks are looking to have fun, or get away from the daily grind, they visit these places. If you love music and movies, these are the places you go to to enjoy yourself.

Right now, the safest place for people to be is at home. You still have to go out for certain things, but for the most part, many folks manage. But a shiatload of people who work to keep you entertained, don't have that option. Many enjoy what they do. They are just as deserving as any person who enjoys being able to, or is even able to work from home.

Why does our government think it's okay to leave these folks high and dry? Why weren't these businesses offered PPP, and their employees extended unemployment benefits? Sure folks who rely on tipping make more, but if someone gave me enough money to pay my rent, electric, cell phone and buy food, I think I could manage.

This should have been temporary. I mean, no one can predict the length of this pandemic, but Americans should have at least been accommodated enough to at least squeak by. I also wanna know where the rich folks who own the studios and production companies, as well as the sports team owners are on all this? Stadiums don't clean themselves. And trying to convince folks that if we limit their numbers, they can enjoy live sports sounds like a good idea, but seating 15 thousand folks in a 70 thousand seat stadium doesn't even scratch the surface.

Somebody has to come off of some money. Yes, billionaire owners may a billion short by the end of the year, but wouldn't that be worth it, if it means we can return to normal faster?

I know it's about money. It's always about farking money. We can't afford to pay y'all to stay safe until we get through this pandemic so we can start up again right away, because it's "too expensive!" As opposed to what? What we're going through now?
 
2020-09-23 4:24:35 PM  

FrancoFile: I'm not sure the doom and gloom scenario is warranted in re the "gentrification" comment.

Converting a music venue to apartments is an expensive and awkward task - they typically don't have windows, you need to completely rethink plumbing, etc.  If I was in commercial real estate and owned space like that, apartment conversion would be the last thing on my mind.


Well they have these things called bulldozers and wrecking balls.  When you use those, you don't have to worry about retrofitting a building not designed for what you want it to become.
 
2020-09-23 4:24:51 PM  
mongbiohazard

Jeebus Saves: Walker: This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?

Jesus farking christ. Some of you really need to get help.

We're planning on hiring that help on November 3rd.

The person whose sarcastic comment you responded to is right to bring up the Trump administration. This is a direct result of the crime against humanity he has committed which has resulted in over 200,000 Americans being sent to the grave (and the real number with the benefit of hindsight and without the Trump admin partisan loyalists cooking the books will almost certainly turn out to have been much higher). It would be stranger to pretend - for no apparent reason - that it didn't.


Oh yeah, everyone died because Trump... if it was Hillary nobody would have and unicorn rainbows everywhere.

It is really sad you think this way.

Whats your solution for the 9 of 10 venues closing, cant pay the bills with nobody coming in.
 
2020-09-23 4:26:26 PM  

FrancoFile: I'm not sure the doom and gloom scenario is warranted in re the "gentrification" comment.

Converting a music venue to apartments is an expensive and awkward task - they typically don't have windows, you need to completely rethink plumbing, etc.  If I was in commercial real estate and owned space like that, apartment conversion would be the last thing on my mind.


Yeah, if you wanted to put apartments where a theater is it would usually make more sense to tear the theater down than try and convert the existing building - or build around it - than just reuse a structure purpose built for a very different use. I can only imagine how much of a pain in the ass it would be just to install the plumbing.

I know of an apartment building in my neck of the woods which was built next to and on top of a theater, but left the theater itself alone. Plus, there might be zoning involved as well, so you'll need to get it rezoned for residential or mixed commercial/residential. Though rezoning is something which happens all the time, the issue with the building design is more difficult.
 
2020-09-23 4:28:08 PM  

majestic: Maybe they should try giving some money directly to actual people. Naw, we can't have that happen again.


They've given plenty of money to the entities that Republicans actually consider 'people'. Everyone else is expendable.
 
2020-09-23 4:29:30 PM  

pdieten: It does suck. But it should have been obvious since roughly April, that if your job involves putting lots of people together in small spaces, it might be time to look for a different line of work for awhile. Having multiple botched responses to the virus, along with a large minority of people who just don't farking listen to anybody, did not make getting past this go any faster.


Why didn't they just load some shows with acts none mask ppl like?
 
2020-09-23 4:30:12 PM  

FrancoFile: I'm not sure the doom and gloom scenario is warranted in re the "gentrification" comment.

Converting a music venue to apartments is an expensive and awkward task - they typically don't have windows, you need to completely rethink plumbing, etc.  If I was in commercial real estate and owned space like that, apartment conversion would be the last thing on my mind.


Look up The Masquerade for a reference.
 
2020-09-23 4:30:50 PM  

Walker: This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?


LOL.
Different issues.
The economy doing well can hide a lot of loss. Where do people think the wins come from?
Wow.
 
2020-09-23 4:31:11 PM  

Jeebus Saves: FrancoFile: I'm not sure the doom and gloom scenario is warranted in re the "gentrification" comment.

Converting a music venue to apartments is an expensive and awkward task - they typically don't have windows, you need to completely rethink plumbing, etc.  If I was in commercial real estate and owned space like that, apartment conversion would be the last thing on my mind.

Well they have these things called bulldozers and wrecking balls.  When you use those, you don't have to worry about retrofitting a building not designed for what you want it to become.



Lots and lots of music venues are in the lower floors of multi-use buildings, not stand-alone edifices.
 
2020-09-23 4:31:38 PM  

PvtStash: Free market, let it freely die.
If there is a time when we don't need venues then we don't, you know like how we don't need mass manufacturing of wooden boat cargo shipping fleets.
OR we need so few horse drawn carts, that guess what, tons and tons of them all went out of business.

Imagine us still paying monye to horse drawn cart makers for the last hundred years cause demand for horse drawn carts still has not gone back up.

You can go under, you probably should. We probably get a VASTLY SUPERIOR VALUE RETURN to just give that money directly to people loosing their jobs from not enough demand for that business any more. Then we do to give the money to the business itself, which only lays off staff anyway.

So go under, it is ok, we won;t be that bad off at all. And if some day in the future there is a demand for venues. guess what the entrepreneurs are going to see as the next growth market?


You can always tell a Trump follower by their breathless, spelling error riddled "free market" blathering.

You have about as intricate an understanding of modern economics as you do of modern hygiene products.
 
2020-09-23 4:32:10 PM  

pdieten: if your job involves putting lots of people together in small spaces, it might be time to look for a different line of work for awhile.


Cool, I'll just magically magic up an entire new career field, from scratch, with no prior training, while competing with people 20+ years younger than me who are training in whatever career field they happen to be applying to.  Certainly, nothing can possibly go wrong with that plan, and finding a new job will be the work of moments.  It's not like people go into career fields because they're good at that career, or have a temperament suited for it.  Certainly there can go nothing wrong with stuffing a high-energy extroverted actress who thrives on personal interaction into a box in front of their computer and having them work remotely for the next 2 years.  Nothing at all.

Oh RIGHT!  I also should have magically expected the pandemic, and socked away not just 9+ months of living expenses, but also enough money that I can pay for training in an entirely new career field at the SAME TIME!  My god, why didn't anyone else think of this? How easy it clearly is to put away that much money while simultaneously a) existing in the US and its attendant cost of living requirements, and b) working in an industry (entertainment) that is infamous for NOT PAYING PEOPLE LOTS OF MONEY.

Nope, everyone in the entertainment industry has to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just find a new career field entirely.  Maybe by looking in the Forest of Careers, where the magic Career Trees all grow.
 
2020-09-23 4:33:32 PM  

Walker: This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?


Cities, forbid any venues to open because of being super spreaders. Has nothing to do with Trump, every business in my area is open and has been since the two week lock down.
 
2020-09-23 4:37:06 PM  

dothemath: PvtStash: Free market, let it freely die.
If there is a time when we don't need venues then we don't, you know like how we don't need mass manufacturing of wooden boat cargo shipping fleets.
OR we need so few horse drawn carts, that guess what, tons and tons of them all went out of business.

Imagine us still paying monye to horse drawn cart makers for the last hundred years cause demand for horse drawn carts still has not gone back up.

You can go under, you probably should. We probably get a VASTLY SUPERIOR VALUE RETURN to just give that money directly to people loosing their jobs from not enough demand for that business any more. Then we do to give the money to the business itself, which only lays off staff anyway.

So go under, it is ok, we won;t be that bad off at all. And if some day in the future there is a demand for venues. guess what the entrepreneurs are going to see as the next growth market?

You can always tell a Trump follower by their breathless, spelling error riddled "free market" blathering.

You have about as intricate an understanding of modern economics as you do of modern hygiene products.


It is wonder how Hillary did not secure enough EC votes to win. With Democrats promising everything free on the backs of the rich, I can not see how Trump could win this time.
 
2020-09-23 4:42:15 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: mongbiohazard

Jeebus Saves: Walker: This can't be true, in the Trump alternate reality the economy is doing great.
Ivanka created 15 million jobs, Are those all OK?

Jesus farking christ. Some of you really need to get help.

We're planning on hiring that help on November 3rd.

The person whose sarcastic comment you responded to is right to bring up the Trump administration. This is a direct result of the crime against humanity he has committed which has resulted in over 200,000 Americans being sent to the grave (and the real number with the benefit of hindsight and without the Trump admin partisan loyalists cooking the books will almost certainly turn out to have been much higher). It would be stranger to pretend - for no apparent reason - that it didn't.

Oh yeah, everyone died because Trump... if it was Hillary nobody would have and unicorn rainbows everywhere.

It is really sad you think this way.

Whats your solution for the 9 of 10 venues closing, cant pay the bills with nobody coming in.


Trump's deliberate and willful sabotage of our pandemic response resulted in tens of thousands - at minimum - more Americans dying than needed to under responsible leadership. That was an act of mass murder. No is saying that no one would have died had someone else been POTUS, but I have a very hard time believing any of the other likely candidates would have intentionally chose to send tens of thousands of human beings to the incinerators when put in that situation.

You can "but Hillary" all you want, those are still the facts. It isn't sad I think that way, it is sad that so many thousands upon thousands of human lives were lost as the entirely predictable result of a callous and monstrous act of mass murder and your response is a weak, lame as fark, "but Hillary".

You want to talk about who needs mental help in this scenario? I'm happy to have that discussion with you. And you should seek it.

As for what's my solution? There isn't one right now. They will probably have to shut down. The GOP still controls both the senate and the executive branch. They are not willing to take any government action which would save these venues, in fact, I suspect they're happy to allow the economic misery to worsen as part of their strategy to hobble a possible incoming Biden administration. Our choices as a nation - even the ones WE EVEN ACTUALLY DIDN'T MAKE in our "representative government" - have consequences. Don't vote for Republicans. The so-called "conservative" movement - a euphemism for a sectarian religious extremist minority - has wholly subsumed the GOP, and is not interested in governing the country. They're only interested in ruling it, or having it burn to ashes if they can't.
 
2020-09-23 4:45:04 PM  
Who's going to pay for this socialism?
 
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