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(Politico)   Companies: Help, we need bailouts or we'll go under. The Fed: here, have huge sums of money so you can keep paying your workforce. Companies: Thanks, suckers *to 1 million workers*': you're fired. *to shareholders: enjoy your dividends   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Federal Reserve System, Fed Chair Jerome Powell, Central bank, corporate bonds, Finance, Monetary policy, purchases of corporate bonds, central bank  
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1761 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Sep 2020 at 1:28 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-23 1:05:30 PM  
But remember kiddies, an extra $600 unemployment is too much for the poors.
Especially with all these former employees suddenly needing some of that.
 
2020-09-23 1:13:13 PM  
Lie,cheat and steal is the republican motto.
 
2020-09-23 1:17:09 PM  
And why do people keep supporting capitalism?
 
2020-09-23 1:17:26 PM  
To be fair, they would have used that money to pay their shareholders regardless of whether they got their money from the fed, their customers, or "other" sources.
 
2020-09-23 1:25:17 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?


It's forced down our throats?   Gagging is messy.
 
2020-09-23 1:29:59 PM  
Luckily the fund had oversight to prevent abuse. Oh wait; Trump fired the guy in charge of oversight immediately after the funds were approved.
 
2020-09-23 1:30:23 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?


everyone thinks they're capitalists when really they're labor. everyone thinks they're middle class when they're actually working poor at best.
 
2020-09-23 1:31:08 PM  
media1.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-23 1:31:14 PM  
When is this country going to realize that capitalism knows no patriotism? Sure, they will pay lip service to it in order to sell you stuff. But when it comes down to it, their allegiance is to money, not country. Stop pretending that giving these people more money is going to solve our problems, because it isn't. Give the money to the people who will actually spend it to help save the economy.
 
2020-09-23 1:31:56 PM  
That's interesting. The only dividends I've seen since March have been from CenturyLink, and that's because they know they're going to zero if they ever stop paying out.

I wonder which companies those were.
 
2020-09-23 1:32:25 PM  

bainsguy: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

everyone thinks they're capitalists when really they're labor. everyone thinks they're middle class when they're actually working poor at best.


The biggest lie is convincing the middle class that they're not labor just because they don't dig ditches.
 
2020-09-23 1:33:45 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?


They fall for the propaganda that it's the only choice.
 
2020-09-23 1:35:35 PM  
Who could have foreseen this, other than any one with a functioning brain.
 
2020-09-23 1:35:59 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?


Young people don't.
And when they have no property, they're not going to care what happens to anyone else's.

They don't give a shiat about your house because they've never owned a home and were subjected to "fark you, pay me." rent increased year after year.
They don't give a shiat about your retirement fund because they've never had enough money to throw at a 401K, if their workplace even offered one.
They don't give a shiat about inflation because they have no savings, and inflation might actually let them pay off their student loan debt.

They won't care what happens to capitalism because they've never been given a reason to.
 
2020-09-23 1:36:39 PM  
If they give that money to the workers of those companies I bet those companies and the local economies would be doing a lot better.

Instead the greedy few with no foresight pocketed a bit of cash.

In reality the shareholders should be pissed (though not day traders)
 
2020-09-23 1:36:59 PM  

Sophont: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

Young people don't.
And when they have no property, they're not going to care what happens to anyone else's.

They don't give a shiat about your house because they've never owned a home and were subjected to "fark you, pay me." rent increased year after year.
They don't give a shiat about your retirement fund because they've never had enough money to throw at a 401K, if their workplace even offered one.
They don't give a shiat about inflation because they have no savings, and inflation might actually let them pay off their student loan debt.

They won't care what happens to capitalism because they've never been given a reason to.


It is not just the young.

Most gen-xers I know are in the same exact boat.

It is poor vs, rich, not young vs. old.
 
2020-09-23 1:37:02 PM  

Epicedion: bainsguy: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

everyone thinks they're capitalists when really they're labor. everyone thinks they're middle class when they're actually working poor at best.

The biggest lie is convincing the middle class that they're not labor just because they don't dig ditches.


I've always kind of admired that the 1% have convinced poor white people that poor people of color are the reason they can't have nice things. It's incredibly insidious and diabolical.
 
2020-09-23 1:37:04 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-23 1:37:40 PM  

Grungehamster: Luckily the fund had oversight to prevent abuse. Oh wait; Trump fired the guy in charge of oversight immediately after the funds were approved.


Helen Keller could have seen this coming.
 
2020-09-23 1:38:33 PM  
"If you can take advantage of a situation in some way, it's your duty as an American to do it. Why should the race always be to the swift, or the Jumble to the quick-witted? Should they be allowed to win merely because of the gifts God gave them? Well I say, "Cheating is the gift man gives himself." "

Charles Montgomery "Monty" Burns
 
2020-09-23 1:39:47 PM  
Do say.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size


Mmmmm, quite. Quite.
 
2020-09-23 1:39:52 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?


I'm ready for another $1200 of it ..
 
2020-09-23 1:40:41 PM  

jethroe: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

They fall for the propaganda that it's the only choice.


People fall for the idea that the Free Market is the best thing in the world. Capitalism works only when regulated to the point that it incentivizes building a company's foundation and penalizes profiting at the expense of a foundation.

Getting rid of capitalism would be like getting rid of health insurance. It's so ingrained into the country's mindset that it mindlessly scares a large chunk of the populace. There's no way of doing it quickly without causing hysteria.
 
2020-09-23 1:41:05 PM  
Wait, wait, wait - corrupt behavior from capitalist with no federal oversight ?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-23 1:41:20 PM  

King Something: To be fair, they would have used that money to pay their shareholders regardless of whether they got their money from the fed, their customers, or "other" sources.


Our government could have saved a ton of money if they just gave everyone $2,000/mo until we are out of this pandemic. Everyone, including the shareholders, CEOs and everyone else who scammed their way through this.

And while it seems weird to give people who don't need it $2,000/mo, we gave all these scammers who don't need money way more than that. So while they would have gotten money they don't need, it would have been less and it also would have gone to the people who actually did need it.

Unfortunately too many fell for the idea that the best way to get money to the people was by giving it to their bosses. Just the same trickle down bullshiat dressed up slightly differently.
 
2020-09-23 1:41:55 PM  
How does this stuff surprise anyone? If you won't end corporate structures, or at least imprison the assholes responsible and take every penny they've ever made, they'll just keep doing it forever. Kill them or accept it...those are pretty much the choices we have in life, and whichever way we go it's entirely on us.
 
2020-09-23 1:43:32 PM  
Right now the stock market is being propped up by all these bailouts from the Federal Government. If Biden gets elected and the Republicans can't steal the election you can be damned sure that they are going to cut off these bailouts. The markets will tank and they will blame Biden for it.
 
2020-09-23 1:44:13 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?


If people truly supported capitalism, then all those companies would actually be out of business. What the GOP is supporting is corporate socialism, otherwise known as fascism.
 
2020-09-23 1:44:16 PM  
Oh, hi there. Hey, what's going on in this thread?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-23 1:44:38 PM  

thiefofdreams: Sophont: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

Young people don't.
And when they have no property, they're not going to care what happens to anyone else's.

They don't give a shiat about your house because they've never owned a home and were subjected to "fark you, pay me." rent increased year after year.
They don't give a shiat about your retirement fund because they've never had enough money to throw at a 401K, if their workplace even offered one.
They don't give a shiat about inflation because they have no savings, and inflation might actually let them pay off their student loan debt.

They won't care what happens to capitalism because they've never been given a reason to.

It is not just the young.

Most gen-xers I know are in the same exact boat.

It is poor vs, rich, not young vs. old.


Yep. I'm watching the impending layoffs where I work. Sure, the company turned a profit last quarter despite Covid, but it wasn't *enough* profit for the shareholders, so we're going to fire enough people to make that profit better, because that always works.

For some reason the people who promised that profit to the shareholders never get replaced, however. Funny that.

Even with a good job, nobody believes this is right, but we're trapped in that machine as well. The only people that believe are the ones getting rich off of it.
 
2020-09-23 1:45:08 PM  

red230: Right now the stock market is being propped up by all these bailouts from the Federal Government. If Biden gets elected and the Republicans can't steal the election you can be damned sure that they are going to cut off these bailouts. The markets will tank and they will blame Biden for it.


If it tanks early, then the blame lies with the GOP and Trump. If it tanks 3.5 years into Biden's first term, well, yeah, that's on Biden.
 
2020-09-23 1:47:03 PM  

Obscure Login: King Something: To be fair, they would have used that money to pay their shareholders regardless of whether they got their money from the fed, their customers, or "other" sources.

Our government could have saved a ton of money if they just gave everyone $2,000/mo until we are out of this pandemic. Everyone, including the shareholders, CEOs and everyone else who scammed their way through this.

And while it seems weird to give people who don't need it $2,000/mo, we gave all these scammers who don't need money way more than that. So while they would have gotten money they don't need, it would have been less and it also would have gone to the people who actually did need it.

Unfortunately too many fell for the idea that the best way to get money to the people was by giving it to their bosses. Just the same trickle down bullshiat dressed up slightly differently.


Giving $2,000 a month to everyone necessarily means giving any non-zero amount of money to minorities and poor people. I'm sure anyone with two brain cells to rub together could guess which political party would oppose such a payoff, and why they'd oppose it.
 
2020-09-23 1:47:52 PM  

Sophont: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

Young people don't.
And when they have no property, they're not going to care what happens to anyone else's.

They don't give a shiat about your house because they've never owned a home and were subjected to "fark you, pay me." rent increased year after year.
They don't give a shiat about your retirement fund because they've never had enough money to throw at a 401K, if their workplace even offered one.
They don't give a shiat about inflation because they have no savings, and inflation might actually let them pay off their student loan debt.

They won't care what happens to capitalism because they've never been given a reason to.


When revolutions are led by the Middle Class you get something like the AMerican Revolution where you get "improvements" of the existing system but the basic power structure stays the same

When they are led by the poor and Lower classes you get the French or Russian revolutions where they burn EVERYTHING down and bathe thier country in blood because they literally have nothing to lose.

You want stability, you bring as many people as you can into the middle class.

in the last 50 years, Household incomes have risen by just 20% even as most household have two income earners not one.

Meanwhile the cost of the Middle Class basics: a car and a house have DOUBLED in price in constant dollars and the cost of a college education has risen by 10x in constant dollars.

in the same period productivity has doubled, and corporate profits have tripled.

in 1984 the richest Man in America was a Shipping Magnate named DK Ludwig and he was worth $10 billion in today's money

that would put him at #50 on this years Forbes 400 and having just 1/20th of the wealth of the #1 Jeff Bezos
 
2020-09-23 1:48:24 PM  

mikalmd: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

I'm ready for another $1200 of it ..


nothatssocialism.jpg
 
2020-09-23 1:48:29 PM  

dericwater: red230: Right now the stock market is being propped up by all these bailouts from the Federal Government. If Biden gets elected and the Republicans can't steal the election you can be damned sure that they are going to cut off these bailouts. The markets will tank and they will blame Biden for it.

If it tanks early, then the blame lies with the GOP and Trump. If it tanks 3.5 years into Biden's first term, well, yeah, that's on Biden.


Lol, Republicans tried blaming the 2008 crash on Obama getting nominated. The Democratic time machine knows no boundaries.
 
2020-09-23 1:49:10 PM  
Feature, not a bug. They knew damn well that's what the money would be used for. It's what Oligarchies do.
 
2020-09-23 1:51:07 PM  

quiotu: jethroe: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

They fall for the propaganda that it's the only choice.

People fall for the idea that the Free Market is the best thing in the world. Capitalism works only when regulated to the point that it incentivizes building a company's foundation and penalizes profiting at the expense of a foundation.

Getting rid of capitalism would be like getting rid of health insurance. It's so ingrained into the country's mindset that it mindlessly scares a large chunk of the populace. There's no way of doing it quickly without causing hysteria.


Well it certainly can't help to talk about "getting rid of capitalism". Hardly anyone actually wants a complete abolishment of capitalism. Capitalism is a powerful tool, and should be continued to be used as such - where appropriate.

What pretty much everyone who has problems with oligarchs running our country, and capitalism harming the society at large, actually wants is capitalism to be applied appropriately, and for the betterment of society not just a small slice of powerful people. That means capitalism with limits and incentives to actually lift all boats - and not just constantly drop boat anchors into the liferafts from the deck of a mega yacht - and to only be the economic model where the profit motive makes sense.
 
2020-09-23 1:51:12 PM  

bainsguy: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

everyone thinks they're capitalists when really they're labor. everyone thinks they're middle class when they're actually working poor at best.


There is no middle class.

There's just richer poor people.
 
2020-09-23 1:51:55 PM  

dericwater: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

If people truly supported capitalism, then all those companies would actually be out of business. What the GOP is supporting is corporate socialism, otherwise known as fascism.


Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

How is anything they are doing considered 'socialism'? Because the Nazi Party put 'socialism' in its name?

What Nazism Stood For
The National Socialists completely ignored socialism's primary aim (replacing the existing class-based society with an egalitarian one in which workers owned the means of production) and substituted their own topsy-turvy agenda, Evans writes, "replacing class with race, and the dictatorship of the proletariat with the dictatorship of the leader"

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/0​5​/were-nazis-socialists/
 
2020-09-23 1:53:50 PM  

bainsguy: Epicedion: bainsguy: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

everyone thinks they're capitalists when really they're labor. everyone thinks they're middle class when they're actually working poor at best.

The biggest lie is convincing the middle class that they're not labor just because they don't dig ditches.

I've always kind of admired that the 1% have convinced poor white people that poor people of color are the reason they can't have nice things. It's incredibly insidious and diabolical.


Because Lyndon Johnson was right, as long as you make them feel superior to their racial counterparts, they'll happily hand over all their money if it hurts "those people."
 
2020-09-23 1:54:07 PM  

quiotu: jethroe: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

They fall for the propaganda that it's the only choice.

People fall for the idea that the Free Market is the best thing in the world. Capitalism works only when regulated to the point that it incentivizes building a company's foundation and penalizes profiting at the expense of a foundation.

Getting rid of capitalism would be like getting rid of health insurance. It's so ingrained into the country's mindset that it mindlessly scares a large chunk of the populace. There's no way of doing it quickly without causing hysteria.


The "free market" is a myth.  There's a farkton of protectionist US policies.  There's no "free market". The US government picks favourites all the time.

Literally the only reason the US still has good access to other markets is because of the giant bloated US military.  It's the only way to guarantee it.  If a country steps out of line and decides to nationalize some industry that will negatively affect the US, the armed forces have the capability to overthrow or destroy them, and they do.

It's like having a mafia hitsquad on call.
 
2020-09-23 1:54:39 PM  

King Something: Obscure Login: King Something: To be fair, they would have used that money to pay their shareholders regardless of whether they got their money from the fed, their customers, or "other" sources.

Our government could have saved a ton of money if they just gave everyone $2,000/mo until we are out of this pandemic. Everyone, including the shareholders, CEOs and everyone else who scammed their way through this.

And while it seems weird to give people who don't need it $2,000/mo, we gave all these scammers who don't need money way more than that. So while they would have gotten money they don't need, it would have been less and it also would have gone to the people who actually did need it.

Unfortunately too many fell for the idea that the best way to get money to the people was by giving it to their bosses. Just the same trickle down bullshiat dressed up slightly differently.

Giving $2,000 a month to everyone necessarily means giving any non-zero amount of money to minorities and poor people. I'm sure anyone with two brain cells to rub together could guess which political party would oppose such a payoff, and why they'd oppose it.


While a lot of the blame goes to Republicans here, the Democratic leadership wasn't much better. We had a few Democrats calling for the $2,000/mo, but there was no realistic party-wide push for it.

Not trying to BSAB this since Democrats did try to get some additional benefits going that would have helped. But the $2,000/mo was too radical for them as well.
 
2020-09-23 1:54:48 PM  
continued ...

This ideology took a leftist label chiefly for tactical reasons. It demanded, within the party and within the state, a powerful system of rule that would exercise unchallenged leadership over the "great mass of the anonymous." And whatever premises the party may have started with, by 1930 Hitler's party was "socialist" only to take advantage of the emotional value of the word, and a "workers' party" in order to lure the most energetic social force. As with Hitler's protestations of belief in tradition, in conservative values, or in Christianity, the socialist slogans were merely movable ideological props to serve as camouflage and confuse the enemy.
 
2020-09-23 1:54:49 PM  

Magorn: When revolutions are led by the Middle Class you get something like the AMerican Revolution where you get "improvements" of the existing system but the basic power structure stays the same

When they are led by the poor and Lower classes you get the French or Russian revolutions where they burn EVERYTHING down and bathe thier country in blood because they literally have nothing to lose.

You want stability, you bring as many people as you can into the middle class.

in the last 50 years, Household incomes have risen by just 20% even as most household have two income earners not one.

Meanwhile the cost of the Middle Class basics: a car and a house have DOUBLED in price in constant dollars and the cost of a college education has risen by 10x in constant dollars.

in the same period productivity has doubled, and corporate profits have tripled.

in 1984 the richest Man in America was a Shipping Magnate named DK Ludwig and he was worth $10 billion in today's money

that would put him at #50 on this years Forbes 400 and having just 1/20th of the wealth of the #1 Jeff Bezos


America is flinging itself headlong into multiple nation-ending crises. There's no easy way out, either.
 
2020-09-23 1:54:55 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?


Because we're f*cking stupid and the biggest cowards of all time?
 
2020-09-23 1:55:37 PM  
 
2020-09-23 1:55:56 PM  

quiotu: jethroe: Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?

They fall for the propaganda that it's the only choice.

People fall for the idea that the Free Market is the best thing in the world. Capitalism works only when regulated to the point that it incentivizes building a company's foundation and penalizes profiting at the expense of a foundation.

Getting rid of capitalism would be like getting rid of health insurance. It's so ingrained into the country's mindset that it mindlessly scares a large chunk of the populace. There's no way of doing it quickly without causing hysteria.


Watch the 6:00 news. Every night they have a segment on the markets: gold is up, oil is down, dollar is up, Nasdaq is blah blah blah...

If they devoted just half of that segment to labor instead of capital, you could change Mr. and Mrs. Suburbia's views on capitalism overnight.
 
2020-09-23 1:56:27 PM  

Magorn: When revolutions are led by the Middle Class you get something like the AMerican Revolution where you get "improvements" of the existing system but the basic power structure stays the same

When they are led by the poor and Lower classes you get the French or Russian revolutions where they burn EVERYTHING down and bathe thier country in blood because they literally have nothing to lose.


But our "lower classes" are educated more than any other generation in history, making this a little different than peasants turning on the nobility.
And just maybe there's nothing worth preserving in the current power structure. A government that barely affords representation to its masses because of centuries old rules, and that's when it's not bought outright by the wealthy? What is there to preserve? Even keeping the words of our founding document, "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" will take a huge change in how that's interpreted.
 
2020-09-23 1:56:38 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And why do people keep supporting capitalism?


Wouldn't this be an example of socialism?  Free market capitalism wouldn't be bailing companies out.
 
2020-09-23 1:59:15 PM  
Whoever would have thought that a group of people who will use the closest thing to slave labour the local laws will allow, outsourcing/offshoring work so that they only have to pay fractions of what they would in their own economies and demanding more breaks and bonus money for themselves at every level whilst fighting to avoid any sort of accountability would do this?

I, for one, am knocked over with this pinfeather.
 
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