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(Entertainment Weekly)   'Game of Thrones' showrunners break their silence to explain why they left Lady Stoneheart out of the series, and fans are sure to appreciate their reasoning and understand   (ew.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, House Lannister, A Storm of Swords, A Song of Ice and Fire, vengeful Catelyn Stark, Lady Stoneheart, Spoiler, Novel, Martin's novels  
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2037 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 23 Sep 2020 at 12:35 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-09-23 12:21:20 PM  
Their reasoning actually seems pretty sound on this on particular point.

Pity it couldn't have been equally sound when it came to everything related to the last clusterfark of a season, the one before that, and the one before that.
 
2020-09-23 12:23:15 PM  
Lady Stoneheart's role in the books beyond this is not yet clear as there are two more novels yet to be published written

ftfy
 
2020-09-23 12:43:44 PM  
It's a tv show. I don't remember people getting this emotional over What's Happening.
 
2020-09-23 12:45:43 PM  
I'm not gonna sh*t on GoT like a lot of people...it gave 6 solid seasons and if the last 2 were hastily written, there was a lot of creativity there; it didn't ruin the whole thing for me.

I'm not the type to buy DVDs of TV shows, but if I were I'd pay the $100.
 
2020-09-23 12:46:07 PM  
You mean they kept a convoluted loose end from an unwritten book out of an already convoluted mess of a television show circling the drain? Good call I'd say.
 
2020-09-23 12:46:27 PM  
ctvnews.caView Full Size

 
2020-09-23 12:50:36 PM  
Um... Yep, I'm fine with that. #2 and #3 are both spot on, and #1 is, quite frankly, giving GRRM the benefit of a major doubt.

Pocket Ninja: Their reasoning actually seems pretty sound on this on particular point.

Pity it couldn't have been equally sound when it came to everything related to the last clusterfark of a season, the one before that, and the one before that.


If GRRM hadn't completely checked out of this part of Westeros' timeline, I think they would have done a better job.

Their talent was editing and adapting, not creating. They whittled 4500 pages down to 50 solid episodes (give or take in terms of overlapping storylines). That breaks down to around 3-7 completed and published book chapters per episode. Then they had 23 more episodes to make out of, what, a handful of interviews and a few outlines and notes?

Honestly, the most anyone could have hoped for was "well, I guess they still did better than Kevin J. Anderson would have done..."
 
2020-09-23 12:54:46 PM  

Subtonic: You mean they kept a convoluted loose end from an unwritten book out of an already convoluted mess of a television show circling the drain? Good call I'd say.


Sounds like a great call to me too.  That shiat sounded like it was going nowhere and in lieu of her ending up on the Iron Throne or somehow be integral in a way we couldn't no it was best to dump that one.
 
2020-09-23 1:01:56 PM  

gopher321: I'm not gonna sh*t on GoT like a lot of people...it gave 6 solid seasons and if the last 2 were hastily written, there was a lot of creativity there; it didn't ruin the whole thing for me.

I'm not the type to buy DVDs of TV shows, but if I were I'd pay the $100.


I think the sloppiness of the ending definitely had to do with shortage of episodes in general (hence the sudden "fast-traveling"). It felt like a summary of a season instead of a season. But like you, that doesn't tarnish the whole series for me.
 
2020-09-23 1:19:41 PM  

Crewmannumber6: It's a tv show. I don't remember people getting this emotional over What's Happening.


I burned down a KTel warehouse after the Doobie Brothers episode.
 
2020-09-23 1:29:59 PM  
It's time to move on people. There's better stuff out there than Martin's Thousand and One Side Stories.
 
2020-09-23 1:42:18 PM  
"Part of the reason we didn't want to put it in had to do with things coming up in George's books that we don't want to spoil [by discussing them]," Benioff says.

So do something different. God knows it's not something you're averse to. Aside from that, you spoiled the entire ending for Christ's sake (assuming GRRM doesn't change things up in light of how everyone hated it).

"We knew we had Jon Snow's resurrection coming up," Benioff says. "Too many resurrections start to diminish the impact of characters dying. We wanted to keep our powder dry for that."

Dondarrion was the first resurrection in both the books and the show. After that the powder is no longer dry, it's a world where resurrections happen. At that point a good writer might work on nuances of the implication of a particular character being resurrected.

"Catelyn's last moment was so fantastic, and Michelle is such a great actress, to bring her back as a zombie who doesn't speak felt like diminishing returns," Benioff says.

So hire a look-alike. With all that zombie make-up and character corruption a slight change in appearance is justifiable.


I guess I'm too late with these rebuttals but I'm just sayin'
 
2020-09-23 1:42:49 PM  
Who cares about anything these useless farks have to say?

They sandbagged the last season(s?) of GoT for a Star Wars project that failed, then laid a huge turd when Confederate was announced and later (blessedly, though who knows how many millions were already spent on "consulting") shiatcanned.

They've admitted they had no plan for GoT at the start, have "no idea" why GRRM entrusted them with his vision, and have generally sucked at everything that wasn't the already-written parts of GoT. Personally, season 1 was a gigantic farking waste of time - a bunch of grimacing and discussions of cooler offscreen stuff than was happening onscreen (but ...tits!), and Arya Stark does more swordfighting than anyone until the last episode.

// HBO didn't have the budget! it's exactly like the books! those sets tho! ...tits!
// all of that is cover for "it's a boring-ass bunch of whiny boringness; maybe it picks up by season 3"
// I'll never know, I tried twice and bailed in early season 2
 
2020-09-23 1:43:04 PM  

Michael J Faux: gopher321: I'm not gonna sh*t on GoT like a lot of people...it gave 6 solid seasons and if the last 2 were hastily written, there was a lot of creativity there; it didn't ruin the whole thing for me.

I'm not the type to buy DVDs of TV shows, but if I were I'd pay the $100.

I think the sloppiness of the ending definitely had to do with shortage of episodes in general (hence the sudden "fast-traveling"). It felt like a summary of a season instead of a season. But like you, that doesn't tarnish the whole series for me.


The fast-traveling in the series is a lot better than the endless traveling in the books. Tyrion sets out for Mereen at the beginning of Book 4 and finally gets there at the end, but never even gets to meet Danaerys. Brienne spends the whole book meandering around Westeros in search of a Stark girl and never does accomplish that mission. Davos spends 4 or 5 chapters making his way to White Harbor, revisiting a favorite tavern and arranging a meeting with Wyman Manderly, setting himself up for what is likely to be another circuitous trip to Skagos in the next book. George has completely lost all momentum in telling the story. Instead he's noodling around in world building travelogues and writing his Fire and Blood backstory treatments.
 
2020-09-23 1:51:01 PM  
Translation: "We genuinely don't know how to write ourselves. Plus, we'd gotten that big Star Wars gig, so enh, who cares. Boobs, penis. Penis and boob, whoops Night King, all-seeing cripple becomes king."

When you get Charles Effin' DANCE stating that things could have been better, and that he supports redoing the ending? 

Go away, Dumb and Dumber. Thanks for spectacularly illustrating your path to nowhere. 

img-9gag-fun.9cache.comView Full Size


st1.bollywoodlife.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-23 2:16:55 PM  
What will happen when Brienne presents the Kingslayer to the Lady Stoneheart?
 
2020-09-23 2:32:23 PM  
At least they were good enough to address what most people thought the biggest flaw in the series was.
 
2020-09-23 2:45:04 PM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: Lady Stoneheart's role in the books beyond this is not yet clear as there are two more novels yet to be written that will never see the light of day.

ftfy


FTFY
 
2020-09-23 3:06:16 PM  

gopher321: I'm not gonna sh*t on GoT like a lot of people...it gave 6 solid seasons and if the last 2 were hastily written, there was a lot of creativity there; it didn't ruin the whole thing for me.

I'm not the type to buy DVDs of TV shows, but if I were I'd pay the $100.


I think you are better off waiting until those DVD's get priced down.
For my money I'd much rather have copies of the series Kings, or Millenium, or the first Penny Dreadful seasons. Even American Gods.
 
2020-09-23 3:10:04 PM  

meera's frog spear: What will happen when Brienne presents the Kingslayer to the Lady Stoneheart?



A threesome?
 
2020-09-23 3:19:41 PM  
I watched the whole series for the first time recently and enjoyed it. The ending isn't what I wanted for the characters, but that's not what dictates a good ending.

I get why some people may not like it, but seeing people pout and throw tantrums and personal attacks regarding it is pretty embarrassing.
 
2020-09-23 3:20:41 PM  
In an already bloated story that was getting larger, adding in another brief cameo of a long dead character would have been a bit too much.  They would have needed to make her and the BWB a much larger part of the story to justify the costs of time, makeup, actor, and writing at the expense of other things. Was there enough in the source material to make something from? My bet is no. I agree with the showrunners on this one. Better to leave the character out.

Besides, to bring her back in that shape would have been a disservice to the legacy of the character. Though bringing back David Bradley as Arya-in-disguise for revenge was brilliant as a one-off.
 
2020-09-23 3:28:01 PM  
Lady Stoneheart was a perfect example of too much.  We already had a story with dragons, white walkers, zombies, three eyed ravens, wargs, warlocks, resurrected characters, fireproof characters, shadow binders, faceless men, greenseers, blood maegi, a Horn of Joramun, a dragonbinder and god knows what else I'm forgetting.  The addition of yet another super magical power of unknown limits is just more running up the score, except that the game we seem to playing is Calvin Ball.  There don't seem to be any hard and fast rules and creator just keeps making up more and more shiat,
 
2020-09-23 4:14:15 PM  
I.  Don't.  Care.

The show ended like eight years ago.

I do want the books, though, dammit.
 
2020-09-23 4:20:39 PM  

MHudson: I watched the whole series for the first time recently and enjoyed it. The ending isn't what I wanted for the characters, but that's not what dictates a good ending.

I get why some people may not like it, but seeing people pout and throw tantrums and personal attacks regarding it is pretty embarrassing.


Not as embarrassing as taking money for writing on it. You imagine having that in your obituary? They'll wish they were McTavish, the Bridgebuilder.
 
2020-09-23 4:21:29 PM  

Persnickety: Lady Stoneheart was a perfect example of too much.  We already had a story with dragons, white walkers, zombies, three eyed ravens, wargs, warlocks, resurrected characters, fireproof characters, shadow binders, faceless men, greenseers, blood maegi, a Horn of Joramun, a dragonbinder and god knows what else I'm forgetting.  The addition of yet another super magical power of unknown limits is just more running up the score, except that the game we seem to playing is Calvin Ball.  There don't seem to be any hard and fast rules and creator just keeps making up more and more shiat,


And by the way, none of that magic shiat matters AT ALL to the end game.
 
2020-09-23 4:48:12 PM  
Because it was pointless?
 
2020-09-23 4:48:43 PM  
She makes two appearances in the books

That's reason enough, the show wouldn't have anything for her to do. In order to make her interesting she'd need to poach actions that served other characters. Every bit of revenge she gets costs Arya for instance. Then I'd start wondering why the 'good' guys, if they can bring back the dead, don't create their own zombie army to fight the Night King's forces. Then I'd start to wonder if zombies would fight zombies or instead sort out their differences and team up against the living. Then I'd start to wonder how an interzombie peace negotiation would play out. It's better that they skipped all that.
 
2020-09-23 4:52:47 PM  

MHudson: I watched the whole series for the first time recently and enjoyed it. The ending isn't what I wanted for the characters, but that's not what dictates a good ending.

I get why some people may not like it, but seeing people pout and throw tantrums and personal attacks regarding it is pretty embarrassing.


Many are from the subset of "fans" that were never going to be pleased anyway.
They were easy to spot in the first four seasons because you couldn't go into a discussion thread without them trying to blab spoilers to assert there "Well, I read the books" sense of unearned superiority.

Then, when the show started introducing things that weren't in the books, they went full Rain Man at the airport and were then nitpicking every single thing they didn't like because it didn't line up with the fanfic in their heads.

The ending was by no means perfect, but it's just a show. Some series endings I've liked. Some I haven't. At the end of the day, it's not that big a deal.
 
2020-09-23 5:04:19 PM  

Birnone: She makes two appearances in the books

That's reason enough, the show wouldn't have anything for her to do. In order to make her interesting she'd need to poach actions that served other characters. Every bit of revenge she gets costs Arya for instance. Then I'd start wondering why the 'good' guys, if they can bring back the dead, don't create their own zombie army to fight the Night King's forces. Then I'd start to wonder if zombies would fight zombies or instead sort out their differences and team up against the living. Then I'd start to wonder how an interzombie peace negotiation would play out. It's better that they skipped all that.


I think that the Brotherhood is better without her in the series, as well.  Like Quentyn, she appears to be a pointless detour
 
2020-09-23 6:01:16 PM  

bhcompy: Birnone: She makes two appearances in the books

That's reason enough, the show wouldn't have anything for her to do. In order to make her interesting she'd need to poach actions that served other characters. Every bit of revenge she gets costs Arya for instance. Then I'd start wondering why the 'good' guys, if they can bring back the dead, don't create their own zombie army to fight the Night King's forces. Then I'd start to wonder if zombies would fight zombies or instead sort out their differences and team up against the living. Then I'd start to wonder how an interzombie peace negotiation would play out. It's better that they skipped all that.

I think that the Brotherhood is better without her in the series, as well.  Like Quentyn, she appears to be a pointless detour


I'd go so far to say that the Brotherhood itself is a pointless detour.  Their only narrative function seems to be to show us that Red Priests can resurrect the dead, a set up for Jon Snow.  Other than that, all they do is kill some random Freys we've never heard of before.  Every chapter with them is narrative stalling.
 
2020-09-23 6:10:25 PM  

Persnickety: I'd go so far to say that the Brotherhood itself is a pointless detour. Their only narrative function seems to be to show us that Red Priests can resurrect the dead, a set up for Jon Snow. Other than that, all they do is kill some random Freys we've never heard of before. Every chapter with them is narrative stalling.


This is true, though I think they leveraged them very well in the show as a waystop to develop Brienne, Jaime, Sandor, and Arya, and Thoros and Beric are present later in the series and serve important parts.
 
2020-09-23 7:30:06 PM  
Was it because it would have left Beric and Thoros out of the final seasons?
 
2020-09-23 8:24:50 PM  

MHudson: I watched the whole series for the first time recently and enjoyed it. The ending isn't what I wanted for the characters, but that's not what dictates a good ending.

I get why some people may not like it, but seeing people pout and throw tantrums and personal attacks regarding it is pretty embarrassing.


Exactly this.
 
2020-09-23 9:04:22 PM  
The final two seasons saw a dramatic drop in quality. But I enjoyed the final episode, at least once the Jon/Dany silliness (a textbook case of lack of chemistry) was over. Martin's 'shock' ending was that many if the big characters survive and we're not gonna go crazy and have like an elective monarchy so why not have the dude who knows everything in the big chair? Fine. My problem is how they got there.

But, no, a poor ending doesn't somehow 'ruin' the previous seasons. I would highly recommend the series to newcomers.

/the novels? Meh. They're kind of a slog.
 
2020-09-23 11:22:49 PM  

steve_wmn: Brienne spends the whole book meandering around Westeros in search of a Stark girl and never does accomplish that mission.


That makes sense. It is kind of hard to find one person (actively hiding) in an populated area.
 
2020-09-24 2:53:00 AM  

NewportBarGuy: [ctvnews.ca image 850x478]


Are you trying to seduce me?
 
2020-09-24 11:30:49 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Who cares about anything these useless farks have to say?

They sandbagged the last season(s?) of GoT for a Star Wars project that failed, then laid a huge turd when Confederate was announced and later (blessedly, though who knows how many millions were already spent on "consulting") shiatcanned.

They've admitted they had no plan for GoT at the start, have "no idea" why GRRM entrusted them with his vision, and have generally sucked at everything that wasn't the already-written parts of GoT. Personally, season 1 was a gigantic farking waste of time - a bunch of grimacing and discussions of cooler offscreen stuff than was happening onscreen (but ...tits!), and Arya Stark does more swordfighting than anyone until the last episode.

// HBO didn't have the budget! it's exactly like the books! those sets tho! ...tits!
// all of that is cover for "it's a boring-ass bunch of whiny boringness; maybe it picks up by season 3"
// I'll never know, I tried twice and bailed in early season 2


I think this is a bad take, and the above poster summed things up nicely about the showrunners:

" If GRRM hadn't completely checked out of this part of Westeros' timeline, I think they would have done a better job.

Their talent was editing and adapting, not creating. They whittled 4500 pages down to 50 solid episodes (give or take in terms of overlapping storylines). That breaks down to around 3-7 completed and published book chapters per episode. Then they had 23 more episodes to make out of, what, a handful of interviews and a few outlines and notes?"

I agree 100%.  Their talent was in adapting the existing story from the books into TV format, not creating new content.  When GRRM took his foot off the gas pedal completely and stopped writing, it became clear the show would stop long, long before he finished the books, if he ever finishes them now.  So now they had no source material to adapt other than a few notes and an outline.  This was not their strongsuit and not what they were hired to do.

So I think they did the best with what they had, and largely blame it on GRRM slowing down to beyond a snails pace.
 
2020-09-24 11:37:07 AM  

Michael J Faux: gopher321: I'm not gonna sh*t on GoT like a lot of people...it gave 6 solid seasons and if the last 2 were hastily written, there was a lot of creativity there; it didn't ruin the whole thing for me.

I'm not the type to buy DVDs of TV shows, but if I were I'd pay the $100.

I think the sloppiness of the ending definitely had to do with shortage of episodes in general (hence the sudden "fast-traveling"). It felt like a summary of a season instead of a season. But like you, that doesn't tarnish the whole series for me.


Honestly, they should have made all of season 8 about the war against the Night King, then another full season about the travel south and the war against Cersi, instead of cramming all of that into less than one full season.  They just wanted to move on to another project and halfassed the last 2 seasons.
 
2020-09-24 11:41:31 AM  

stoli n coke: MHudson: I watched the whole series for the first time recently and enjoyed it. The ending isn't what I wanted for the characters, but that's not what dictates a good ending.

I get why some people may not like it, but seeing people pout and throw tantrums and personal attacks regarding it is pretty embarrassing.

Many are from the subset of "fans" that were never going to be pleased anyway.
They were easy to spot in the first four seasons because you couldn't go into a discussion thread without them trying to blab spoilers to assert there "Well, I read the books" sense of unearned superiority.

Then, when the show started introducing things that weren't in the books, they went full Rain Man at the airport and were then nitpicking every single thing they didn't like because it didn't line up with the fanfic in their heads.

The ending was by no means perfect, but it's just a show. Some series endings I've liked. Some I haven't. At the end of the day, it's not that big a deal.


The term Fan comes from fanatic...they are invested into whatever they are a fan of, it is more than just a show to them, more than just an ending to a show.  Imagine you are on a trip to travel across the country with your family to go to a beloved amusement park.  You have good things and bad things happen along the way but it takes nothing away from the sheer desire to teach that amusement park with your family.  You finally get there...and the moose out front tells you that the park is closed.  I guess you should just shrug and accept it and drive back home being just happy for the journey.  A fan will run out, but a bb gun, and force their way into that park to get a better ending.  Man this would make a great movie...

Trolls are not fans, they follow popular trends and seek to tear them down for their own purposes.  They are the ones that will complain about everything, doing great research to learn everything they can just to treat it down.  Picture Mark Wahlberg from the Other Guys who took ballet lessons just so he could talk shiat about those that enjoy ballet.  Trolls seem to enjoy getting fans riled up, even more when fans start to agree with them.

Fans love, they invest much of their lives into the object of their affection.  They have expectations and suffer disappointment when things go wrong.  There is a difference between a plot going in a way that they did not expect, unless you are the writer or a precog, that is bound to happen and that can lead to a little hurt but when the ending of your beloved show is butchered so badly at the end because of nonplot related reasons, they are entitled to their hate and are entitled to speak out in forums devoted to those topics, they are fans, this is their world.  It is everyone else who comes in to complain about fans that are the outsiders, that would be like matching into the midst of a gay pride parade and complaining about all the glitter of sitting on the home team side of a football stadium rioting for the other team and getting jeers from the people around you, what the hell are you expecting.

If you go into a Fark chat and just want to read simple posts like "I thought it was good" or "I didn't really like it" what is the fun of reading the comments.  A forum without passion is not really worth having.  I guess Drew could save space by having only a thumbs up or thumbs down in comments and not allowing text, but why bother.  Even reading the creative trolling comments is better than nothing until boobies are allowed once again.
 
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