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(Tech Xplore)   After flight shamers and green activists encouraged America's airlines to dump old jets, it all went for naught because Amazon and cargo carriers snapped them up cheap and are using these fuel guzzlers for freight delivery   (techxplore.com) divider line
    More: Ironic, Boeing 787, Carbon dioxide, Cargo, Boeing 747, Competition between Airbus and Boeing, Cargo airline, freight sector's oldest aircraft, Carbon cycle  
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362 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 Sep 2020 at 5:05 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



18 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-09-22 2:16:05 AM  
What's the carbon footprint of building and operating new cargo planes compared to repurposing old ones?
 
2020-09-22 2:29:37 AM  

BretMavrik: What's the carbon footprint of building and operating new cargo planes compared to repurposing old ones?


Kinda irrelevant to why cargo airlines want them
 
2020-09-22 2:49:13 AM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: BretMavrik: What's the carbon footprint of building and operating new cargo planes compared to repurposing old ones?

Kinda irrelevant to why cargo airlines want them


1. That wasn't my question.
2. Price in the carbon externalities and they'll figure it out in about ten minutes.
3. Regardless, it's still a valid question.
 
2020-09-22 3:59:40 AM  

BretMavrik: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: BretMavrik: What's the carbon footprint of building and operating new cargo planes compared to repurposing old ones?

Kinda irrelevant to why cargo airlines want them

1. That wasn't my question.
2. Price in the carbon externalities and they'll figure it out in about ten minutes.
3. Regardless, it's still a valid question.


1. I didn't say it was.
2. You think the US is actually going to tax carbon emissions anytime soon?
3. Why are we doing numbered lists?
 
2020-09-22 6:03:26 AM  
Yes we are.  We are going to tax carbon significantly.
 
2020-09-22 6:27:54 AM  

BretMavrik: What's the carbon footprint of building and operating new cargo planes compared to repurposing old ones?


It's much, much lower.

From the article:
"Amazon points out that its recycled 767s are powered by the same engines as new 767s."

Despite Subby's comment about "gas guzzlers," a 30 year old 767-200 with newer engines is going to get almost exactly the same fuel efficiency as a brand new plane. Most of the obvious external fuel efficiency changes (winglets, et cetera) had already been done on the older planes. The biggest internal changes were in cabin fixtures, which have gotten lighter over the years, and those are being yanked out for cargo conversions anyway.

Part of the reason the 767 has been so popular over the years is that Boeing has had continual updates available, to improve things like fuel efficiency. There basically aren't any unmodified 30 year old 767s still in operation, and with the current situation, Amazon can pick and choose the better planes.

Sure, they could buy a new 787 - for $250 million. Which would be pretty dumb, financially. Instead, they buy the older jets from the companies that are buying newer, more-efficient models, and let the airlines get much more good from the higher-efficiency jets on much higher usage.
 
2020-09-22 8:21:37 AM  
Who cares as long as my new fly swatter, bottle of Listerine, 4T hard drive, guitar strings, Hitachi magic wand, and paint stirrers get delivered tomorrow in separate large boxes each with three bags of air to bounce around with the product.  Each in a different truck with a different driver too.
 
2020-09-22 8:28:02 AM  

cirby: BretMavrik: What's the carbon footprint of building and operating new cargo planes compared to repurposing old ones?

It's much, much lower.

From the article:
"Amazon points out that its recycled 767s are powered by the same engines as new 767s."

Despite Subby's comment about "gas guzzlers," a 30 year old 767-200 with newer engines is going to get almost exactly the same fuel efficiency as a brand new plane. Most of the obvious external fuel efficiency changes (winglets, et cetera) had already been done on the older planes. The biggest internal changes were in cabin fixtures, which have gotten lighter over the years, and those are being yanked out for cargo conversions anyway.

Part of the reason the 767 has been so popular over the years is that Boeing has had continual updates available, to improve things like fuel efficiency. There basically aren't any unmodified 30 year old 767s still in operation, and with the current situation, Amazon can pick and choose the better planes.

Sure, they could buy a new 787 - for $250 million. Which would be pretty dumb, financially. Instead, they buy the older jets from the companies that are buying newer, more-efficient models, and let the airlines get much more good from the higher-efficiency jets on much higher usage.


Pretty dumb to buy a bunch of new 250 million dollar airplanes?  Or ballet a fark?  Doesn't that dude have like a trillion dollars?  Freaking stingy biatch has more money than most religions and he's buying busted ass used planes.  Give me a trillion dollars, my company would have a fleet of solid gold concords delivering shiat by the end of the week.  Baller.
 
2020-09-22 10:17:50 AM  

PadreScout: cirby: BretMavrik: What's the carbon footprint of building and operating new cargo planes compared to repurposing old ones?

It's much, much lower.

From the article:
"Amazon points out that its recycled 767s are powered by the same engines as new 767s."

Despite Subby's comment about "gas guzzlers," a 30 year old 767-200 with newer engines is going to get almost exactly the same fuel efficiency as a brand new plane. Most of the obvious external fuel efficiency changes (winglets, et cetera) had already been done on the older planes. The biggest internal changes were in cabin fixtures, which have gotten lighter over the years, and those are being yanked out for cargo conversions anyway.

Part of the reason the 767 has been so popular over the years is that Boeing has had continual updates available, to improve things like fuel efficiency. There basically aren't any unmodified 30 year old 767s still in operation, and with the current situation, Amazon can pick and choose the better planes.

Sure, they could buy a new 787 - for $250 million. Which would be pretty dumb, financially. Instead, they buy the older jets from the companies that are buying newer, more-efficient models, and let the airlines get much more good from the higher-efficiency jets on much higher usage.

Pretty dumb to buy a bunch of new 250 million dollar airplanes?  Or ballet a fark?  Doesn't that dude have like a trillion dollars?  Freaking stingy biatch has more money than most religions and he's buying busted ass used planes.  Give me a trillion dollars, my company would have a fleet of solid gold concords delivering shiat by the end of the week.  Baller.


i.pinimg.comView Full Size

Thrifty AND baller
 
2020-09-22 10:18:31 AM  
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
M-G
2020-09-22 10:34:03 AM  
From the headline, you'd think Amazon was converting the old AA and Delta mad dog fleets...
 
2020-09-22 12:09:05 PM  
cirby:

Sure, they could buy a new 787 - for $250 million. Which would be pretty dumb, financially. Instead, they buy the older jets from the companies that are buying newer, more-efficient models, and let the airlines get much more good from the higher-efficiency jets on much higher usage.

A huge missed point here is that there is no 787 freighter. There is no conversion program for it either. The 767 is the only game in town for that size of freighter. A330 freighter conversions are at a trickle and a much larger aircraft. 777 is only available as a new build freighter and is built for heavy loads hauled intercontinentally, so on Amazon's routes its hauling dead weight.

767-300s are not the bleeding edge economy wise, but the difference on the short routes Amazon flies them on combined with high cycle life (meaning fewer replacement aircraft need to be built) makes up for inefficiency.
 
2020-09-22 12:18:38 PM  
Yesterday's modern non-polluting fuel sippers are now today's gas guzzling polluters. It's normal for the goal posts to be moved with technology. It's also normal for old airplanes to move down to the cargo ranks.

Nobody forced that to happen.
 
2020-09-22 12:21:05 PM  
PadreScout:

Pretty dumb to buy a bunch of new 250 million dollar airplanes?  Or ballet a fark? Doesn't that dude have like a trillion dollars?  Freaking stingy biatch has more money than most religions and he's buying busted ass used planes.  Give me a trillion dollars, my company would have a fleet of solid gold concords delivering shiat by the end of the week.  Baller.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-22 2:29:02 PM  
Did the cargo companies retire even older aircraft? If so, them buying these is still helping as even old, even more polluting aircraft are taken out of operation.
 
2020-09-22 4:08:30 PM  

M-G: From the headline, you'd think Amazon was converting the old AA and Delta mad dog fleets...


Shhhh. Fark is not my personal fetish site.
 
2020-09-22 4:36:05 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-22 9:15:17 PM  

Autoerotic Defenestration: Pretty dumb to buy a bunch of new 250 million dollar airplanes? Or ballet a fark? Doesn't that dude have like a trillion dollars? Freaking stingy biatch has more money than most religions and he's buying busted ass used planes. Give me a trillion dollars, my company would have a fleet of solid gold concords delivering shiat by the end


LOL, yeah.   I learned my lesson about posting on my phone without being very careful.


Translate that to "Baller as fark" unless Ballet is cooler - which it very well may be.
 
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