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(Washington Post)   Biden: We need to get rid of for-profit private prisons and increase the use of halfway houses to help recently released inmates readjust to society. Trump: OMG SLEEPY JOE WANTS TO ABOLISH PRISONS AND LET CRIMINALS GO FREE   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Prison, final months of the Obama administration, Biden's criminal justice plan, set of nonbinding policy recommendations, Justice Department, BOP website, Criminal justice, free federal housing  
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375 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Sep 2020 at 11:59 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-09-21 11:12:21 AM  
Trump's next thought: Wait. That could work out for me
 
2020-09-21 11:14:49 AM  
Private prisons are not just immoral, but also an abomination and a cancer and and societal corrosive.
 
2020-09-21 11:15:09 AM  

Biscuit Tin: Trump's next thought: Wait. That could work out for me


Guarantee he doesn't think that far ahead.
 
2020-09-21 11:34:26 AM  
Can we also do something about that "No one will hire a felon" thing? Giving convicts more opportunities on the outside might help reduce recidivism, maybe.
 
2020-09-21 11:37:21 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Private prisons are not just immoral, but also an abomination and a cancer and and societal corrosive.


It's almost like everything the gop supports is just flat out evil.

Remarkable coincidence
 
2020-09-21 12:02:33 PM  
Joe should strike a compromise - keep the for-profit prisons open, release the current inmates, and replace them with the Trump cabal in 2021.  They might even have to build more of them.
 
2020-09-21 12:03:30 PM  
No nuance. No patience. Just fark the poors.
 
2020-09-21 12:04:20 PM  
To keep halfway homes from ruining the property value of hardworking Americans, we'll place them all next to Trump properties.
 
2020-09-21 12:06:56 PM  
Are both sides still totally the same?
 
2020-09-21 12:06:58 PM  

kbronsito: To keep halfway homes from ruining the property value of hardworking Americans, we'll place them all next to in former Trump properties acquired through eminent domain.


That sounds better.
 
2020-09-21 12:08:03 PM  

Bootleg: Can we also do something about that "No one will hire a felon" thing? Giving convicts more opportunities on the outside might help reduce recidivism, maybe.


On the flip side, why should somebody who DIDN'T go to prison miss out on a good job opportunity?
 
2020-09-21 12:08:05 PM  
But for real, let's abolish prisons as they exist now, tho.
 
2020-09-21 12:12:09 PM  

Bootleg: Can we also do something about that "No one will hire a felon" thing? Giving convicts more opportunities on the outside might help reduce recidivism, maybe.


There's a French restaurant, along with (now) a bakery and a butcher shop near my home that act as a halfway house and culinary arts training program for convicts and ex convicts.   My wife and I have not had the opportunity to eat at the restaurant proper, due to kids, jobs and now COVID.   Since the pandemic closed the restaurant, to keep funds flowing, they have been offering fixed menu take out meals 7 days a week.  We've been getting dinner from them at least once a week.

The man who started it is a genuine honest to god good person.  This world needs more programs like this and people like Brandon to run them.   Government money should go towards things like this, not prisons who make a buck on the backs of those they hold in lockup.
 
2020-09-21 12:12:53 PM  
We can't just restructure a huge portion of the private sector! Not unless they piss off Republicans.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-21 12:14:02 PM  

Great_Milenko: kbronsito: To keep halfway homes from ruining the property value of hardworking Americans, we'll place them all next to in former Trump properties acquired through eminent domain.

That sounds better.


Why use eminent domain to acquire property that's gonna be confiscated via a RICO case?
 
2020-09-21 12:15:22 PM  
You know we say for profit prisons have an incentive to keep prisoners locked up to keep the money flowing. We also have for profit healthcare which by nature of being for profit has an incentive to not provide care. We are the most duped country in the history of the world.
 
2020-09-21 12:15:52 PM  

MattytheMouse: But for real, let's abolish prisons as they exist now, tho.


Regardless if public or private, it's no mistake prisons (stocked with targeted minorites by a racist judicial system) are always located in remote, rural, RED counties to provide cushy jobs to psychopathically cruel white supremacists.

Such as Attica.
 
2020-09-21 12:16:12 PM  
Meanwhile in Bernieland: OMG BIDEN REFUSES TO EVER DO ANYTHING ABOUT PRISONS BSAB PART OF THE SYSTEM FLKAJFWAEINB!!!
 
2020-09-21 12:17:24 PM  

madgonad: Bootleg: Can we also do something about that "No one will hire a felon" thing? Giving convicts more opportunities on the outside might help reduce recidivism, maybe.

On the flip side, why should somebody who DIDN'T go to prison miss out on a good job opportunity?


And while we're at it, where we at on getting a WHITE history month on the calendars??
 
2020-09-21 12:19:59 PM  

quo vadimus: Meanwhile in Bernieland: OMG BIDEN REFUSES TO EVER DO ANYTHING ABOUT PRISONS BSAB PART OF THE SYSTEM FLKAJFWAEINB!!!


Ayukshully, we've been pissed at his lack of plans for police reform. The thing people have been pretty upset about lately. Talking about prison reform is a good idea, but doesn't change the conversation.
 
2020-09-21 12:21:11 PM  

danielem1: You know we say for profit prisons have an incentive to keep prisoners locked up to keep the money flowing. We also have for profit healthcare which by nature of being for profit has an incentive to not provide care. We are the most duped country in the history of the world.


That's not true. The healthcare industry has a lot of incentive to provide "healthcare" as long as they never heal anyone. The goal is to keep performing procedures and prescribing drugs.
 
2020-09-21 12:21:26 PM  
I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise
MattytheMouse: But for real, let's abolish prisons as they exist now, tho.

Regardless if public or private, it's no mistake prisons (stocked with targeted minorites by a racist judicial system) are always located in remote, rural, RED counties to provide cushy jobs to psychopathically cruel white supremacists.

Such as Attica.


It's not so much as to provide cushy jobs to cruel white supremecists it's because jobs in those areas are scarce, especially decent paying jobs.  These areas are economically stagnant and they see a prison as a economic boost.  Also, land there is often cheap and available.
 
2020-09-21 12:22:25 PM  
Also: pardon all non-violent drug offenders and end the stupid War On Drugs
 
2020-09-21 12:24:03 PM  

madgonad: Bootleg: Can we also do something about that "No one will hire a felon" thing? Giving convicts more opportunities on the outside might help reduce recidivism, maybe.

On the flip side, why should somebody who DIDN'T go to prison miss out on a good job opportunity?


Maybe they shouldn't be such a loser that the employer would rather hire a thief, rapist, or murderer?
 
2020-09-21 12:26:34 PM  
oh they also put prisons in rural areas to boost the census, even though people in those prisons can't vote. ain't this country great?
 
2020-09-21 12:27:29 PM  
My first Bachelor's degree is in Criminology, and I banged this same drum for four years.  Statistics show that using a reentry program for people about to be released dramatically reduce recidivism.  We also need to start reopening better mental health facilities and quit housing severely mentally ill patients in prison because these poor souls aren't getting the treatment that they need, and without some sort of reentry program they usually crash and burn within weeks. The War on Drugs has been an abject failure because the only thing it has done is dramatically increase the prison population with people who don't need to be there.  Private prisons are horrible, and need to be shut down because they only magnify the problems that state-run prisons have.  80% of people in prison are going to be out in five years, and 70% of them will end up right back in within a year or two.  We HAVE to do better.
 
2020-09-21 12:31:24 PM  

Lord_Moldypants: The War on Drugs has been an abject failure because the only thing it has done is dramatically increase the prison population with people who don't need to be there


the people who started the war on drugs think this is why it was a terrific success
 
2020-09-21 12:31:59 PM  
The new anti-Biden PAC ads are about how he fought to keep the military from killing Osama bin Laden because he loves terrorism and flag burning that much.
 
2020-09-21 12:33:39 PM  

alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: madgonad: Bootleg: Can we also do something about that "No one will hire a felon" thing? Giving convicts more opportunities on the outside might help reduce recidivism, maybe.

On the flip side, why should somebody who DIDN'T go to prison miss out on a good job opportunity?

And while we're at it, where we at on getting a WHITE history month on the calendars??


Hey, my career doesn't have that issue but there are many that do.

If you hire an ex-con, who doesn't get the job?

Is it the high school graduate that got mostly C's in school?
Is it someone who just finished their BA?
Is it a mid-career person that is trying to move into management?
Is it a departmental director that is responsible for an entire business unit?

Do you get to go right back to where you were before you went in or should it knock you down a couple pegs?

I have no issue with someone who did their time and started from the bottom and worked their way to the top again. In two years my brother in law will get out of prison (again). I suspect he will go back to working as a trim carpenter. It is what he did after his prior prison term (that and armed robbery, I guess). Before he went to prison he was making $300k/year running the finance department of a car dealership in AZ.

It is a good question for society. Where should an ex-con fit in?
 
2020-09-21 12:36:17 PM  

zeroman987: madgonad: Bootleg: Can we also do something about that "No one will hire a felon" thing? Giving convicts more opportunities on the outside might help reduce recidivism, maybe.

On the flip side, why should somebody who DIDN'T go to prison miss out on a good job opportunity?

Maybe they shouldn't be such a loser that the employer would rather hire a thief, rapist, or murderer?


Perhaps you didn't know, ex-cons will work for a lot less.

Businesses see both sides of the issue. Yeah, there is going to be less trust for the felon, but they may be capable of doing the same work as a non-felon for only 60% the pay.
 
2020-09-21 12:38:51 PM  

gameshowhost: Also: pardon all non-violent drug offenders and end the stupid War On Drugs


Portugal.
 
2020-09-21 12:44:10 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-21 12:44:28 PM  
Can we just start calling them workhouses again?
 
2020-09-21 12:47:13 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: gameshowhost: Also: pardon all non-violent drug offenders and end the stupid War On Drugs

Portugal.


Technically in Portugal drugs are still illegal - they just aren't criminal anymore.

That means you pay big fines or do community service.
 
2020-09-21 12:50:08 PM  
A good, if tiny, first step.

What we really need to close down are the for-profit detention centers full of non-citizens of asorted legal status.

People always talk about the prisons and forget about the detention centers, which are actually where the private orgs make most of their money, and the detainees have even fewer rights.

Funny that.
 
2020-09-21 12:54:12 PM  

gameshowhost: Also: pardon all non-violent drug offenders and end the stupid War On Drugs


It's not stupid, it's evil.

The War On Some Drugs, through selective enforcement, has been the single most effective tool to keep undesirables from voting since Jim Crowe.
 
2020-09-21 12:55:32 PM  
Does anybody even keep track of the number of lies anymore?  It's got to be north of 25k by now.
 
2020-09-21 12:55:48 PM  
Once they stop criminalizing capitalism, they won't need half the beds.
 
2020-09-21 12:57:11 PM  

PlaidJaguar: gameshowhost: Also: pardon all non-violent drug offenders and end the stupid War On Drugs

It's not stupid, it's evil.

The War On Some Drugs, through selective enforcement, has been the single most effective tool to keep undesirables from voting since Jim Crowe.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-21 12:57:12 PM  

Lord_Moldypants: My first Bachelor's degree is in Criminology, and I banged this same drum for four years.  Statistics show that using a reentry program for people about to be released dramatically reduce recidivism.  We also need to start reopening better mental health facilities and quit housing severely mentally ill patients in prison because these poor souls aren't getting the treatment that they need, and without some sort of reentry program they usually crash and burn within weeks. The War on Drugs has been an abject failure because the only thing it has done is dramatically increase the prison population with people who don't need to be there.  Private prisons are horrible, and need to be shut down because they only magnify the problems that state-run prisons have.  80% of people in prison are going to be out in five years, and 70% of them will end up right back in within a year or two.  We HAVE to do better.


Q: Maybe impossible. But could a profit motive be built into a system to encourage a reduction in recidivism? Like actually paying someone a bonus of some sort when prisoners do not go back to prison?

I mean, I prefer not having private prisons. Just thinking out loud on this. Some must have thought of trying to do some sort of free market reduce recidivism experiment before, right?
 
2020-09-21 12:57:15 PM  

madgonad: Do you get to go right back to where you were before you went in or should it knock you down a couple pegs?


If I take a couple of years off my job for any reason, I'm probably not going to jump back in right at the level I left off. A gap in your resume is hard enough to overcome, whether it's because you were incarcerated, went backpacking across Europe to find yourself, or decided to make a stab at playing online poker for a living.

Why don't we start with just eliminating the "CONVICTED FELON" stigma, and see what that does for us. You do your time, your record is expunged, and no employer gets to know that about you. You'll still have the gap in your resume to deal with, that should be punitive enough.
 
2020-09-21 1:10:11 PM  

gameshowhost: PlaidJaguar: gameshowhost: Also: pardon all non-violent drug offenders and end the stupid War On Drugs

It's not stupid, it's evil.

The War On Some Drugs, through selective enforcement, has been the single most effective tool to keep undesirables from voting since Jim Crowe.

[Fark user image image 220x151]


Because stupidity implies it was at least partially unintentional or done in ignorance, and neither is true.
 
2020-09-21 1:13:04 PM  

kbronsito: Lord_Moldypants: My first Bachelor's degree is in Criminology, and I banged this same drum for four years.  Statistics show that using a reentry program for people about to be released dramatically reduce recidivism.  We also need to start reopening better mental health facilities and quit housing severely mentally ill patients in prison because these poor souls aren't getting the treatment that they need, and without some sort of reentry program they usually crash and burn within weeks. The War on Drugs has been an abject failure because the only thing it has done is dramatically increase the prison population with people who don't need to be there.  Private prisons are horrible, and need to be shut down because they only magnify the problems that state-run prisons have.  80% of people in prison are going to be out in five years, and 70% of them will end up right back in within a year or two.  We HAVE to do better.

Q: Maybe impossible. But could a profit motive be built into a system to encourage a reduction in recidivism? Like actually paying someone a bonus of some sort when prisoners do not go back to prison?

I mean, I prefer not having private prisons. Just thinking out loud on this. Some must have thought of trying to do some sort of free market reduce recidivism experiment before, right?


No, the private prisons take steps to maximize recidivism because the more beds they fill the more money the state pays them.

that's also why they lobby for harsh penalties and strict enforcement, especially of non violent drug crimes, because peaceful potheads are much easier (cheaper) to keep in line.
 
2020-09-21 1:41:09 PM  

alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: madgonad: Do you get to go right back to where you were before you went in or should it knock you down a couple pegs?

If I take a couple of years off my job for any reason, I'm probably not going to jump back in right at the level I left off. A gap in your resume is hard enough to overcome, whether it's because you were incarcerated, went backpacking across Europe to find yourself, or decided to make a stab at playing online poker for a living.

Why don't we start with just eliminating the "CONVICTED FELON" stigma, and see what that does for us. You do your time, your record is expunged, and no employer gets to know that about you. You'll still have the gap in your resume to deal with, that should be punitive enough.


Yeah, there are all kinds of convicted felons.

Which of these would be acceptable for your boss to hire to work as your coworker?

-Drug possession (meth)
-Drug trafficking (pot)
-Repeat DWI
-Wife beater
-Corporate fraudster
-Assault & battery
-Dinesh D'Souza
-Armed robbery
-Tax fraud
-Breaking & entering / robbery
-Vehicular manslaughter
-2nd degree murder
-Arson
-Vandalism
 
2020-09-21 1:50:09 PM  
I don't know why republican politicians would be against this. After all, so many of them have been through halfway houses
 
2020-09-21 1:53:45 PM  

madgonad: alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: madgonad: Do you get to go right back to where you were before you went in or should it knock you down a couple pegs?

If I take a couple of years off my job for any reason, I'm probably not going to jump back in right at the level I left off. A gap in your resume is hard enough to overcome, whether it's because you were incarcerated, went backpacking across Europe to find yourself, or decided to make a stab at playing online poker for a living.

Why don't we start with just eliminating the "CONVICTED FELON" stigma, and see what that does for us. You do your time, your record is expunged, and no employer gets to know that about you. You'll still have the gap in your resume to deal with, that should be punitive enough.

Yeah, there are all kinds of convicted felons.

Which of these would be acceptable for your boss to hire to work as your coworker?

-Drug possession (meth)
-Drug trafficking (pot)
-Repeat DWI
-Wife beater
-Corporate fraudster
-Assault & battery
-Dinesh D'Souza
-Armed robbery
-Tax fraud
-Breaking & entering / robbery
-Vehicular manslaughter
-2nd degree murder
-Arson
-Vandalism


Have they served their time? Are we, as a society, saying they've paid their debt? Then hire all of them. I might actually start going to the lame "mandatory" company bowling outings if I can chat with some characters like that.
 
2020-09-21 2:58:34 PM  

PlaidJaguar: gameshowhost: PlaidJaguar: gameshowhost: Also: pardon all non-violent drug offenders and end the stupid War On Drugs

It's not stupid, it's evil.

The War On Some Drugs, through selective enforcement, has been the single most effective tool to keep undesirables from voting since Jim Crowe.

[Fark user image image 220x151]

Because stupidity implies it was at least partially unintentional or done in ignorance, and neither is true.


Fair enough.  Does "jenkemfied" work? I like that one.
 
2020-09-21 4:35:39 PM  

alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: madgonad: alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: madgonad: Do you get to go right back to where you were before you went in or should it knock you down a couple pegs?

If I take a couple of years off my job for any reason, I'm probably not going to jump back in right at the level I left off. A gap in your resume is hard enough to overcome, whether it's because you were incarcerated, went backpacking across Europe to find yourself, or decided to make a stab at playing online poker for a living.

Why don't we start with just eliminating the "CONVICTED FELON" stigma, and see what that does for us. You do your time, your record is expunged, and no employer gets to know that about you. You'll still have the gap in your resume to deal with, that should be punitive enough.

Yeah, there are all kinds of convicted felons.

Which of these would be acceptable for your boss to hire to work as your coworker?

-Drug possession (meth)
-Drug trafficking (pot)
-Repeat DWI
-Wife beater
-Corporate fraudster
-Assault & battery
-Dinesh D'Souza
-Armed robbery
-Tax fraud
-Breaking & entering / robbery
-Vehicular manslaughter
-2nd degree murder
-Arson
-Vandalism

Have they served their time? Are we, as a society, saying they've paid their debt? Then hire all of them. I might actually start going to the lame "mandatory" company bowling outings if I can chat with some characters like that.


How about a pedophile?
 
2020-09-21 4:49:37 PM  

Bootleg: Can we also do something about that "No one will hire a felon" thing? Giving convicts more opportunities on the outside might help reduce recidivism, maybe.


I suspect that the rehab portion might help with that. My experience is a bit limited, but from what I've seen and heard "Ew, a criminal" factor is there but not the largest factor in the decision. A lot of it is just the basic logistics of hiring someone right out of a long stint in prison. No reliable housing, transportation, there's often additional court and probation meetings they have to take, and it doesn't take much to send them back, particularly when the aforementioned items means there's a good chance that they're going to hang around with the same people they were with before they went in. Having a steady base to work with ought to help alleviate a lot of that. Dunno what to do about the social stigma, but maybe if the rest of it goes away that just diminishes on its own.

/One other side effect that you don't hear about much: Years of rigidly holding to rules plus a hobby of reading the fine points of laws means that they tend to know exactly what employment laws are and will hold everyone too them.
//Overall a good thing, and I applaud them for it, but for a manager that's gotta make for an annoying employee.
 
2020-09-21 4:51:48 PM  

madgonad: alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: madgonad: alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: madgonad: Do you get to go right back to where you were before you went in or should it knock you down a couple pegs?

If I take a couple of years off my job for any reason, I'm probably not going to jump back in right at the level I left off. A gap in your resume is hard enough to overcome, whether it's because you were incarcerated, went backpacking across Europe to find yourself, or decided to make a stab at playing online poker for a living.

Why don't we start with just eliminating the "CONVICTED FELON" stigma, and see what that does for us. You do your time, your record is expunged, and no employer gets to know that about you. You'll still have the gap in your resume to deal with, that should be punitive enough.

Yeah, there are all kinds of convicted felons.

Which of these would be acceptable for your boss to hire to work as your coworker?

-Drug possession (meth)
-Drug trafficking (pot)
-Repeat DWI
-Wife beater
-Corporate fraudster
-Assault & battery
-Dinesh D'Souza
-Armed robbery
-Tax fraud
-Breaking & entering / robbery
-Vehicular manslaughter
-2nd degree murder
-Arson
-Vandalism

Have they served their time? Are we, as a society, saying they've paid their debt? Then hire all of them. I might actually start going to the lame "mandatory" company bowling outings if I can chat with some characters like that.

How about a pedophile?


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