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(Wikipedia)   There were THREE medieval renaissances, but nobody remembers those because they didn't paint naked people   (en.m.wikipedia.org) divider line
    More: Interesting, Middle Ages, Renaissance, Western Europe, High Middle Ages, medieval renaissances, Carolingian Renaissance, Early Middle Ages, Europe  
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1120 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 19 Sep 2020 at 3:42 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-19 3:45:35 PM  
I spent some time painting naked people but  they kept washing it off.
 
2020-09-19 4:03:59 PM  
I gotta think a renaissance is when the scientific method has better weight than religion.

Saying that, there were probably more than 3 in the past, and we're not living in one now.
 
2020-09-19 4:32:49 PM  
Had a college course that included a textbook describing the "Medieval Industrial Revolution".  Roughly went from 1000-1350 (pause for Black Death) 1450-1700.

It was mostly about using watermills to power mills (and eventually anything else they wanted more than pure muscle power).   It would have ended in 1400 or earlier without the Black Death as they were running out of trees to build the mills.  During the Black Death, nobody planned far enough ahead to build new mills (nor needed all that charcoal when there were more existing iron tools than people to use them) so the forests revived and allowed a second round of mills to be made.

Unfortunately, that was an early book I managed to lose (even before all my moves...) as not much later I learned that milling was "women's work" and put 2 and 2 together and was shocked just how much capital was invested in the middle ages to automate "women's work".  Never did get all the details, but it is something to think about.

But yes, the Middle Ages were hardly as backward as history implies.  The nobles and priests might have been as backward as commonly thought, but the townsfolk were steadily making progress (if nothing like that seen in Islamic nations or China).
 
2020-09-19 4:50:47 PM  

rjakobi: I spent some time painting naked people but  they kept washing it off.


I tried that too! Slightly different problem, though.
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2020-09-19 5:48:33 PM  
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The dynasty ended with the short-lived and little-known reign of Otto IV:

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2020-09-19 5:57:16 PM  

Snotnose: I gotta think a renaissance is when the scientific method has better weight than religion.

Saying that, there were probably more than 3 in the past, and we're not living in one now.


Terrible definition. People like Roger Bacon deserve recognition.
 
2020-09-19 6:05:33 PM  

leeksfromchichis: Terrible definition. People like Roger Bacon deserve recognition.


Also, where do you slot Kepler and Newton, people whose religious beliefs drove their interpretation of empirical observations, and who felt that by making discoveries they were learning the mind of god?

Like, I'm as anti-religion as the next guy, but the intersection of religion, culture, scientific practice, music, arts, etc. is fuzzy as all getout. You can't just pick and choose which force you want to see acting on history, because there isn't a clear distinction between them. Pythagoras ran a friggin' cult... dedicated to math! Is that religion or science?
 
2020-09-19 6:10:10 PM  
It was a "W-shaped" renaissance...
 
2020-09-19 7:24:45 PM  
Human civilization is always changing; whether it's science, philosophy, politics, economics, etc. Historical periods, eras, thematic revolutions, renaissances, etc. are simply a way for us to neatly package the cherry-picked things that happened in cherry-picked places at cherry-picked times to and/or by cherry-picked people that we want to talk and/or write books about. It's not like everyone in 1648 was just sitting around waiting for the Treaty of Westphalia to be signed so that they could start getting to work on the Enlightenment.
 
2020-09-19 9:04:45 PM  

t3knomanser: leeksfromchichis: Terrible definition. People like Roger Bacon deserve recognition.

Also, where do you slot Kepler and Newton, people whose religious beliefs drove their interpretation of empirical observations, and who felt that by making discoveries they were learning the mind of god?

Like, I'm as anti-religion as the next guy, but the intersection of religion, culture, scientific practice, music, arts, etc. is fuzzy as all getout. You can't just pick and choose which force you want to see acting on history, because there isn't a clear distinction between them. Pythagoras ran a friggin' cult... dedicated to math! Is that religion or science?


Murdering people to keep the fact that the 2 is not a perfect square secret does tend to put it more on the religious side, but point taken.
 
2020-09-19 10:35:38 PM  
I recently completed Chris Wickham's 'The Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages 400-1000' so I'm getting a kick..  As a result of that research, I think the Carolingian and Ottonian periods are pretty lame and missing one important element.  Those two periods' revivalism is premised on an institutional stability that was so incredibly personalized that they essentially evaporated at Charlemagne's death and end of the Ottonian line.  In West Francia (and similarly, but on different timing in Germany), the situation all of the way up and down society became considerably worse than what came before.  After the death of Charles the Fat, France became ever more backward well into the Capetian period (and Hohenzollern in Germany).
 
2020-09-19 10:37:08 PM  
Hohenstauffen, not Hohenzollern.
 
2020-09-19 11:51:10 PM  
This is the historian version of the "well, actually" guy.

Yes, we're aware that "renaissance" is an actual word with a meaning that wasn't invented whole cloth for the sole purpose of referring to the specific european historical period that serves as the (admittedly mostly arbitrary) dividing line between the late middle ages and the early modern period / age of exploration.

Good job, subby, you have somehow obtained the basic capacity to use a dictionary.  This definitely makes you seem clever and informed, and not at all willfully obtuse or ignorant.

// "Nobody remembers" basic European history taught to every college freshman with required gen ed courses.  Sure, Jan.
 
2020-09-20 3:42:40 AM  
And now in the 20th year of the 21st Century, I watched a "social eating" channel on Twitch.
 
2020-09-20 6:06:09 PM  

leeksfromchichis: Snotnose: I gotta think a renaissance is when the scientific method has better weight than religion.

Saying that, there were probably more than 3 in the past, and we're not living in one now.

Terrible definition. People like Roger Bacon deserve recognition.


Buttstuff Saltpork unavailable for comment.
 
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