iron de havilland: ...

So, because some unsavoury people have rallied under the banner of anti-fascism in the past, we shouldn't be anti-fascist today?

Maybe use a different name?

Better yet, don't label yourself by what you are against, but by what you are for. I'm much more interested in working with people who want to support democracy rather than simply settle for anything that's not fascism.

Also, I don't care how much someone says they are against fascism if they aren't willing to shoot fascists in the face. That is the only way to deal with Nazis.

TommyStiletto: Wasn't "antifa" the whole point of World War II?

Antifa originated as the abbreviation of Antifaschistische Aktion, the armed, para-military wing of the KPD. It was founded in 1932 as the successor to the KPD's earlier para-military group, the Roter Frontkämpferbund or, RFB, which existed from 1924 to 1929. Antifa's main job was protecting KPD events, marching to support their candidates and intimidate others, and perhaps most importantly, fight pitched street battles with the Nazi's armed para-militaries, Sturmabteilung, aka the SA, the brownshirts, or stormtroopers. When they weren't fighting Nazis, they were fighting the Socialdemocrats (SPD) and their loosely affiliated Eiserne Front.Obviously after the NSDAP came to power, the KPD, antifa, and all other political groups were banned, and many members wound up in concentration camps.

The term antifa, or more usually anti-fascist, entered wider use by the Left, especially by the Comintern, during the Spanish Civil War. The Republican side was a conglomeration of political groups who only shared their opposition to the Nationalist rebels. Most, but not all of these groups were leftists of varying degrees of radicalism. As Italy and Germany increased their support for the Nationalists, the Republicans could only find support from the USSR. This diminished popular support for the Spanish Republic among the western public, so to downplay Moscow's near takeover of the Republican cause, the term anti-fascist was preferred.

After WWII, antifa continued to be term in common usage in Europe for a variety of Left-wing youth groups. These ranged from simple gangs who liked to get in street fights with racist punks and hooligans, to actual terrorist organizations funded and controlled by Moscow. After the Red Summer of 1968, the USSR toned down the armed terrorism, although some groups like the Rote Armee Fraktion(RAF) aka the Baader-Meinhof Group, or the Brigate Rossecontinued. Anti-fascist would continue on in Soviet parlance (for example in the official name of the Berlin Wall) but as glasnost became official policy, the term antifa became more and more associated with elements of the punk scene. It would occasionally be used to describe independent groups which considered themselves leftists dedicated to direct action, such as the Black Bloc, But was mostly passé. Until an actual fascist got elected President. All of a sudden the term "Antifa" gets thrown around, and when people who had never heard it before ask, "what does that mean?" they are told simply, "it means anti-fascist."  And so, not knowing the term's history, they start using it, perhaps even to refer to themselves. And when someone points out it's actual, historical meaning, they reject it as counter-propaganda.

iron de havilland: g.fro: Did you not read the tome I posted above, or are you ignoring it?

I read it, but I'm ignoring it because it's worthless. You might have made a better case arguing about the perversion of the swastika into the hakenkreuz, and how it's problematic to display swastikas openly today. That would have been a good example of how right-wingers tend to ruin everything.

But today? Antifa still has connotations of being against fascism. And that is not a bad position to hold, and it is not incompatible with liberal democracy.

So, I proudly proclaim that I am antifa.

/Just gotta wait for the Sorosbucks to roll right in, now.

Good for you. I'm not a communist, so no matter how much I oppose fascism, I'm not adopting that title.

PunGent: g.fro: They might be against fascism, but they are not for democracy

Got any reliable sources saying the bulk of the current U.S. antifa movement is ANTI-democracy?

Because otherwise, it just sounds like you're sealioning in favor fascists :/

If the fact that the movement has it's roots in communism isn't enough for you, what kind of facts would be? A notarized mission statement and platform from a leaderless movement?

I presented facts in my ridiculously long post above, so knock it off with your "sealioning" bullshiat.

LordJiro: PunGent: g.fro: iron de havilland: ...

So, because some unsavoury people have rallied under the banner of anti-fascism in the past, we shouldn't be anti-fascist today?

Maybe use a different name?

Better yet, don't label yourself by what you are against, but by what you are for. I'm much more interested in working with people who want to support democracy rather than simply settle for anything that's not fascism.

Also, I don't care how much someone says they are against fascism if they aren't willing to shoot fascists in the face. That is the only way to deal with Nazis.

Huh.  Haven't seen a "no true Anti Fascist" argument before.

It's new to me, but not at all compellling.

See, he's totally not a fascist, but he's trying to tie a MASSIVE variety of anti-fascist groups, from 'mere' progressives to harder-core socialists to anarchists to, yes, actual Marxists (not to be confused with Stalinists or Maoists; protip, if there are leaders, or if anyone is otherwise 'superior' to anyone else, it's not farking Communism), to the Scary Reds, thus dismissing their efforts.

Yes, you're right: historical facts have agendas. And everyone knows that there was no such thing as communism. It was an invention of the military-industrial complex to manipulate and frighten Americans. Therefore, anyone who ever mentions communism is obviously engaged in fear mongering.

And you, just like apparently everyone else on Fark, are also totally right that no word exists before you hear of it. And therefore political reality begins on 2016 since you weren't paying attention to a goddamned thing before then.

iron de havilland: g.fro: iron de havilland: g.fro: iron de havilland: g.fro: Did you not read the tome I posted above, or are you ignoring it?

I read it, but I'm ignoring it because it's worthless. You might have made a better case arguing about the perversion of the swastika into the hakenkreuz, and how it's problematic to display swastikas openly today. That would have been a good example of how right-wingers tend to ruin everything.

But today? Antifa still has connotations of being against fascism. And that is not a bad position to hold, and it is not incompatible with liberal democracy.

So, I proudly proclaim that I am antifa.

/Just gotta wait for the Sorosbucks to roll right in, now.

Good for you. I'm not a communist, so no matter how much I oppose fascism, I'm not adopting that title.

I'm not a communist either, but I will gladly take the mantle of being against fascism.

You should, too.

If you think I'm not against fascism then you haven't been reading my posts; and if you're not going to read my posts, I'm not going to waste any more time.

Sure, you need to take a bit of time to consider what it means to be against fascism.

Have a think, then get back to me.

You are being thick. Not everyone who is against fascism is antifa. It is not a binary where one is either a Nazi or antifa, and if you think it is, you're either a child or an idiot. I don't know what it is about the internet that makes people take pride in their ignorance, and then turn that into feeling superior to people who actually know stuff, but you seem to be textbook example tonight. Go call yourself whatever you want. I don't know why you even care, you're not going to have to deal with whatever shiat happens in the next six weeks.

Have a good night.

iron de havilland: g.fro: iron de havilland: g.fro: Did you not read the tome I posted above, or are you ignoring it?

I read it, but I'm ignoring it because it's worthless. You might have made a better case arguing about the perversion of the swastika into the hakenkreuz, and how it's problematic to display swastikas openly today. That would have been a good example of how right-wingers tend to ruin everything.

But today? Antifa still has connotations of being against fascism. And that is not a bad position to hold, and it is not incompatible with liberal democracy.

So, I proudly proclaim that I am antifa.

/Just gotta wait for the Sorosbucks to roll right in, now.

Good for you. I'm not a communist, so no matter how much I oppose fascism, I'm not adopting that title.

I'm not a communist either, but I will gladly take the mantle of being against fascism.

You should, too.

If you think I'm not against fascism then you haven't been reading my posts; and if you're not going to read my posts, I'm not going to waste any more time.

iron de havilland: g.fro: iron de havilland: ...

So, because some unsavoury people have rallied under the banner of anti-fascism in the past, we shouldn't be anti-fascist today?

Maybe use a different name?

Better yet, don't label yourself by what you are against, but by what you are for. I'm much more interested in working with people who want to support democracy rather than simply settle for anything that's not fascism.

Also, I don't care how much someone says they are against fascism if they aren't willing to shoot fascists in the face. That is the only way to deal with Nazis.

Wow, you've got a lot of issues to work through.

Why, because I believe in democracy?

TrashcanMan: g.fro: iron de havilland: ...

So, because some unsavoury people have rallied under the banner of anti-fascism in the past, we shouldn't be anti-fascist today?

Maybe use a different name?

Better yet, don't label yourself by what you are against, but by what you are for. I'm much more interested in working with people who want to support democracy rather than simply settle for anything that's not fascism.

Also, I don't care how much someone says they are against fascism if they aren't willing to shoot fascists in the face. That is the only way to deal with Nazis.

thanks for your input

You're welcome.

OptionC: g.fro: OptionC: bobbyjoebobby: A lot of people sure are invested in anftifa not being real.

Who is the leader of antifa?

Movements without leaders aren't real?

Without membership, leadership and hierarchy there is nothing which can be described as an organization.

So then neither Occupy Wall Street nor Black Lives Matter exist(ed).