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(Washington Post)   Israel, France and Spain are now locking down due to a second wave of COVID-19. Meanwhile, the US is still waiting for its first wave to go away on its own like a certain president promised   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Sad, World Health Organization, United States, death rates, account population, World Health Organization's top official, travel restrictions, infection rates, novel coronavirus  
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1443 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 18 Sep 2020 at 5:05 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-18 3:10:39 PM  
Can't have a second wave if the first wave never goes away.

/insert guy pointing to head pic
 
2020-09-18 3:17:42 PM  
The global cooling wave that's coming will wipe it right out.
 
2020-09-18 3:23:59 PM  
I mean science has never heard of weather before.
 
2020-09-18 3:37:34 PM  
Arizona FINALLY Decided to use police to enforce masks in public. After 6 months and thousands of infections and 2,000 Covid related deaths.
I guess Trump's buddy Republican Gov. Ducey figured the virus has killed off enough Native Americans, black and Hispanics they can start acting like they care about whoever is left.
 
2020-09-18 4:08:00 PM  

Godscrack: Arizona FINALLY Decided to use police to enforce masks in public. After 6 months and thousands of infections and 2,000 Covid related deaths.
I guess Trump's buddy Republican Gov. Ducey figured the virus has killed off enough Native Americans, black and Hispanics they can start acting like they care about whoever is left.


All of Arizona, or just Tucson?
 
2020-09-18 4:17:48 PM  
One day, Trump will just be gone. Like a miracle. Believe me.
 
2020-09-18 5:06:37 PM  

Officer Barrelroll: Can't have a second wave if the first wave never goes away.

/insert guy pointing to head pic


Damn if this wasn't the exact thing I was thinking!
 
2020-09-18 5:08:37 PM  

Cagey B: One day, Trump will just be gone. Like a miracle. Believe me.


ok-cleek.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-18 5:09:03 PM  
Thanks paywall
 
2020-09-18 5:11:31 PM  
America is entering it's second wave as well. It is entering at a far higher starting point than everybody
 
2020-09-18 5:11:37 PM  

Cagey B: One day, Trump will just be gone. Like a miracle. Believe me.


Seriously? We need his leadership until this pandemic is cured. As long as Corona is here, Trump will be too!


/not srs.
 
2020-09-18 5:13:04 PM  
Man I can't wait for it to go away on its own once the weather warms up. Bless our emperor jesus king Trump. MAGA

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-18 5:17:22 PM  
It will go away in April....with the heat.

April 2024
 
2020-09-18 5:18:14 PM  
Meanwhile in New Mexico, the governor said yesterday in a press conference that, although our numbers look better than Colorado, we still need to be cautious about schools because this state is very poor and our hospitals and clinics suck.  Plus too much diabetes out there.
 
2020-09-18 5:18:49 PM  
I think enough time has passed that economists should start providing charts showing how economies have done in proactive countries, countries that have done the shutdown/reopen/shutdown cycle, and countries that have just farked up since day one. I'm curious about which approach makes more economic sense as shown by months of data. Also, what is the relative difference between approaches? I figure that by now there should be enough data to show some preliminary trends.
 
2020-09-18 5:19:36 PM  
Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.
 
2020-09-18 5:23:04 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-18 5:28:07 PM  
Chaos. Reigns.
 
2020-09-18 5:32:14 PM  

Walker: It will go away in April....with the heat.

April 2024


Nope, but the USS is at a level that is acceptable to most. No one really even talks about it anymore.
 
2020-09-18 5:33:20 PM  

whidbey: Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.


Does the President have that authority?
 
2020-09-18 5:34:27 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Godscrack: Arizona FINALLY Decided to use police to enforce masks in public. After 6 months and thousands of infections and 2,000 Covid related deaths.
I guess Trump's buddy Republican Gov. Ducey figured the virus has killed off enough Native Americans, black and Hispanics they can start acting like they care about whoever is left.

All of Arizona, or just Tucson?


Did AZ ever get a statewide mask mandate, or did Ducey pass the buck to the mayors?
 
2020-09-18 5:35:27 PM  

bfh0417: whidbey: Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.

Does the President have that authority?


If the president can force immigrants to have hysterectomies and can ban TikTok, then the president can order a national lockdown.
 
2020-09-18 5:36:24 PM  

whidbey: Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.


But according to the latest Trump TV ad, that means Small Businesses and Middle Class Workers are doomed. DOOMED.
 
2020-09-18 5:44:02 PM  

Officer Barrelroll: Can't have a second wave if the first wave never goes away.

/insert guy pointing to head pic


You kidding?
Toots and Jimmy Cliff were still playing when Specials and Madness, eta al came around.

But anyway.
Fark user imageView Full Size


/because we all need giggle late on a friday.
 
2020-09-18 5:46:07 PM  

Cagey B: One day, Trump will just be gone. Like a miracle. Believe me.


And COVID-19 will still be around.
 
2020-09-18 5:49:27 PM  

bfh0417: whidbey: Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.

Does the President have that authority?


On the one hand, this Administration has proven asking that question in response to anything they do is pointless since it doesn't matter.

However, if we're looking at this from an academic point of view, the President will need to get creative in order to accomplish that.  As a practical matter, any nation-wide lockdown would require (1) direct payments to all affected individuals to compensate for lost wages; (2) increased testing capacity and turn-around times for all necessary workers; and (3) financing (be it grants, loans, or otherwise) to businesses for any lost revenue.  We frankly have needed all three of these things since March, but that's another matter altogether.

Enforcement of a nationwide lockdown would be tricky.  The federal government can regulate things like interstate travel and also regulate matters within certain parameters (e.g. borders, federal property, etc.), but typically States are the ones who have the power to oversee health-related matters like quarantines.  This is the sort of thing that would require all 50 states to comply with any proposed rules/requirements, so you would need to have some sort of carrot/stick legislation set up where States could obtain financing directly from the federal government in exchange for enacting lockdowns via legislation and enforcement.  The problem is, there will be holdout States (as we saw with Medicaid expansion), even if the lockdown package includes giving each State a unicorn that shiats gold.  There will also be States that will try to take funding and do jack shiat to enforce any regulations they put on the books.  The Supreme Court has also been really hesitant to allow the federal government to coerce States in lots of other circumstances, so it's not like States could be forced to accept these requirements.  That's not even taking into account how to handle the non-compliant plague rats.

So, I could see it being explored, but I also think that there would be a huge holdout problem if it were ever implemented.
 
2020-09-18 5:52:44 PM  

Outshined_One: bfh0417: whidbey: Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.

Does the President have that authority?

On the one hand, this Administration has proven asking that question in response to anything they do is pointless since it doesn't matter.

However, if we're looking at this from an academic point of view, the President will need to get creative in order to accomplish that.  As a practical matter, any nation-wide lockdown would require (1) direct payments to all affected individuals to compensate for lost wages; (2) increased testing capacity and turn-around times for all necessary workers; and (3) financing (be it grants, loans, or otherwise) to businesses for any lost revenue.  We frankly have needed all three of these things since March, but that's another matter altogether.

Enforcement of a nationwide lockdown would be tricky.  The federal government can regulate things like interstate travel and also regulate matters within certain parameters (e.g. borders, federal property, etc.), but typically States are the ones who have the power to oversee health-related matters like quarantines.  This is the sort of thing that would require all 50 states to comply with any proposed rules/requirements, so you would need to have some sort of carrot/stick legislation set up where States could obtain financing directly from the federal government in exchange for enacting lockdowns via legislation and enforcement.  The problem is, there will be holdout States (as we saw with Medicaid expansion), even if the lockdown package includes giving each State a unicorn that shiats gold.  There will also be States that will try to take funding and do jack shiat to enforce any regulations they put on the books.  The Supreme Court has also been really hesitant to allow the federal government to coerce States in lots of other circumstances, so it's not like States could be forced to accept these requirements.  That's not even taking into account how to handle the non-compliant plague rats.

So, I could see it being explored, but I also think that there would be a huge holdout problem if it were ever implemented.


Simple solution.

Pass COVID federal relief package with funding for state and local governments conditioned on taking appropriate measures.  No masks? No money.
 
2020-09-18 5:55:00 PM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-18 5:59:24 PM  

Officer Barrelroll: Can't have a second wave if the first wave never goes away.

/insert guy pointing to head pic


Ever been to a beach? The second wave just rolls in on top of the first - but it's definitely coming in waves.
 
2020-09-18 6:02:47 PM  

zeroman987: Simple solution.

Pass COVID federal relief package with funding for state and local governments conditioned on taking appropriate measures.  No masks? No money.


We did the same thing with Medicaid expansion back when the Affordable Care Act passed.  12 States still have not accepted it, despite significant funding that was provided by the federal government.

This is something that needs to be explored if Biden wins, but there are way too many state and local politicians who would rather have thousands more deaths on their hands because of stigginit.
 
2020-09-18 6:06:57 PM  

Outshined_One: Does the President have that authority? [...]

On the one hand, this Administration has proven asking that question in response to anything they do is pointless since it doesn't matter.

However, if we're looking at this from an academic point of view, the President will need to get creative in order to accomplish that.  As a practical matter, any nation-wide lockdown would require (1) direct payments to all affected individuals to compensate for lost wages; (2) increased testing capacity and turn-around times for all necessary workers; and (3) financing (be it grants, loans, or otherwise) to businesses for any lost revenue.  We frankly have needed all three of these things since March, but that's another matter altogether.

Enforcement of a nationwide lockdown would be tricky.  The federal government can regulate things like interstate travel and also regulate matters within certain parameters (e.g. borders, federal property, etc.), but typically States are the ones who have the power to oversee health-related matters like quarantines.  This is the sort of thing that would require all 50 states to comply with any proposed rules/requirements, so you would need to have some sort of carrot/stick legislation set up where States could obtain financing directly from the federal government in exchange for enacting lockdowns via legislation and enforcement.  The problem is, there will be holdout States (as we saw with Medicaid expansion), even if the lockdown package includes giving each State a unicorn that shiats gold.  There will also be States that will try to take funding and do jack shiat to enforce any regulations they put on the books.  The Supreme Court has also been really hesitant to allow the federal government to coerce States in lots of other circumstances, so it's not like States could be forced to accept these requirements.  That's not even taking into account how to handle the non-com ...


I suspect Trump sh*t the bed hard enough that Biden frankly has few options other than try to ramp up test/trace and use the bully pulpit until a vaccine gets approved (though even then, I'm not sure a lot of Americans really trust the Feds on anything right now--or will ever regain any of that trust for that matter).

One thing I can see happening is all passports being invalidated and vaccinations being required to regain them (once a vaccine comes out, of course). That would at least allow the rest of the world to lift their bans on Americans, anyway, possibly without visa or quarantine requirements--which would be a morale boost and might give Biden some political capital to work with. However, I can see this move being extremely controversial given the lack of trust as previously mentioned.

Speaking of travel, having the TSA require proof of vaccination to get past security would also get a fair number of domestic travelers w/o passports. That plus direct vaccination of the highest risk categories would probably drastically reduce the infection/death rate without having to go draconian.

/full herd immunity--if possible--will unfortunately come down to time.
 
2020-09-18 6:07:25 PM  

fiddlehead: whidbey: Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.

But according to the latest Trump TV ad, that means Small Businesses and Middle Class Workers are doomed. DOOMED.


It's also what the goobers on the (WA Governor) Jay Inslee FB page are derping about.

Hard.
 
2020-09-18 6:08:04 PM  

whidbey: Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.


Yeah!  Let's get rid of the most dictator-like president in almost 100 years who massively increased the power of the executive, so we can cheer on his replacement FULLY becoming a dictator and running roughshod over the rest of the government!  "Separation of Powers"?!  More like "Holding Back Progress"!
Look, Biden doing that is farking stupid and he is not going to.  The president does not have that kind of unilateral power over the entire country, and Trump shows just how important it is that the office doesn't.  Biden knows this.  I'm not naive enough to think he's some kind of total saint, (his public views on criminal justice and the drug war are pretty well known, and I don't think there's any real evidence he's changed them), but I also don't think he's some kind of Secret Hitler chomping at the bit to continue the consolidation of power into one person.
 
2020-09-18 6:09:47 PM  
"Okay, we've stomped it down, it's pretty well under control, now we can open up some and just be basically responsible for another year or so, keep ourselves in this holding pattern, and we'll have a...

... Oh Christ on a cracker you fuchking idiots. Okay, lockdown again it is."

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-18 6:12:01 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Cagey B: One day, Trump will just be gone. Like a miracle. Believe me.

And COVID-19 will still be around.


Nah. It'll go away as an issue if Biden is elected.
 
2020-09-18 6:16:31 PM  
My employer just announced that, starting Monday, they'd be allowing up to 50% of people back in the office (up from 20%). Our big boss told us that he wasn't expecting anyone to come into the office over and above the 5% who were already coming in. A good Big Boss he is.

/ Thanks Buddha that I have a job where I can work from home
// Stay safe out there my fellow Farkers
 
2020-09-18 6:17:01 PM  
Not "a certain president" "President Trump the Cheeto in Chief".
Don't give this ass an inch, call him out on every single farkup.
 
2020-09-18 6:18:49 PM  
I invite you to play with the Financial Times graph for a moment, selecting Israel, France, Spain and the United States and setting the controls at

* new
* cases
* per million
* linear scale

and turning off the adjustment of dates to show the progress of each country in real time, not from the onset of the cases.
 
2020-09-18 6:19:35 PM  

Godscrack: Arizona FINALLY Decided to use police to enforce masks in public. After 6 months and thousands of infections and 2,000 Covid related deaths.
I guess Trump's buddy Republican Gov. Ducey figured the virus has killed off enough Native Americans, black and Hispanics they can start acting like they care about whoever is left.


They should use the national guard and give them the freedom to fire on any and all maskless plague rats.  No mercy.  Zero tolerance.

The states need to lock down their borders, nothing in or out, for 6 months.  NOTHING.  The counties and large cities need to lockdown their borders too, nothing in or out for 6 months.  There needs to be ultra fear.  Asking nicely hasn't worked.  Now we need to make the pants go brown to stop the plague rats.
 
2020-09-18 6:20:48 PM  

NEDM: whidbey: Elect Biden, national lockdown by March 2021, book it done.

Yeah!  Let's get rid of the most dictator-like president in almost 100 years who massively increased the power of the executive, so we can cheer on his replacement FULLY becoming a dictator and running roughshod over the rest of the government!  "Separation of Powers"?!  More like "Holding Back Progress"!
Look, Biden doing that is farking stupid and he is not going to.  The president does not have that kind of unilateral power over the entire country, and Trump shows just how important it is that the office doesn't.  Biden knows this.  I'm not naive enough to think he's some kind of total saint, (his public views on criminal justice and the drug war are pretty well known, and I don't think there's any real evidence he's changed them), but I also don't think he's some kind of Secret Hitler chomping at the bit to continue the consolidation of power into one person.


Derrrrrrrrrrp
 
2020-09-18 6:21:20 PM  
https://ig.ft.com

It's educational.

Yikes!

Whatever you do, don't look at the raw numbers without screening the cases per million of population.
 
2020-09-18 6:22:58 PM  

themindiswatching: One thing I can see happening is all passports being invalidated and vaccinations being required to regain them (once a vaccine comes out, of course). That would at least allow the rest of the world to lift their bans on Americans, anyway, possibly without visa or quarantine requirements--which would be a morale boost and might give Biden some political capital to work with. However, I can see this move being extremely controversial given the lack of trust as previously mentioned.


"Extremely controversial" does not even begin to cover unilaterally invalidating all passports in the country and requiring everyone to reapply for them.  Let's just set aside the terrifying concept of the government indefinitely suspending the ability of its citizens to leave its borders for the moment, and imagine the bureaucratic snarl that would result from millions of passports having to be reissued with additional verification.  The Passport Office is already almost overwhelmed, this would completely destroy it.  People wouldn't be able get a new passport for literal years.  Any American travels abroad for work would have their career gutted, maybe even permanently destroyed.  And this are the people you're verifying as being safe to travel too!

Another side effect is that if you unilaterally invalidated the passport of every American citizen, literally every American ex-pat in the entire farking world would have to immediately uproot their life whereever they are and travel back to the US that very day to start a new life.  Invalidating their passport invalidates their visa as well, and even after they get their passport back they'll have to reapply to live whereever they were previously.
 
2020-09-18 6:25:39 PM  

whidbey: Derrrrrrrrrrp


Yes yes, I'm well aware of how you "debate":  just call anyone who disagrees with you a derper.  On Fark, you don't need to provide any kind of counterargument if you do that.
 
2020-09-18 6:26:41 PM  

NEDM: whidbey: Derrrrrrrrrrp

Yes yes, I'm well aware of how you "debate":  just call anyone who disagrees with you a derper.  On Fark, you don't need to provide any kind of counterargument if you do that.


Except that wasn't a "disagreement," it was you being hysterical.
 
2020-09-18 6:26:58 PM  
Some people are determined to get sick. The moment you open up, they rush out and cram together in bars.  Numbers only fall when the determined manage to contract the disease while everyone else stays home.  I say go for it.
 
2020-09-18 6:31:23 PM  

whidbey: NEDM: whidbey: Derrrrrrrrrrp

Yes yes, I'm well aware of how you "debate":  just call anyone who disagrees with you a derper.  On Fark, you don't need to provide any kind of counterargument if you do that.

Except that wasn't a "disagreement," it was you being hysterical.


More like exasperated at the sentiment. I'm not under the delusion that Biden is going to do anything like that.

Also, another good dodge.  "I don't need to prove you wrong, I just have to call your argument hysterical and I can just ignore it"
 
2020-09-18 6:33:19 PM  

NEDM: whidbey: NEDM: whidbey: Derrrrrrrrrrp

Yes yes, I'm well aware of how you "debate":  just call anyone who disagrees with you a derper.  On Fark, you don't need to provide any kind of counterargument if you do that.

Except that wasn't a "disagreement," it was you being hysterical.

More like exasperated at the sentiment. I'm not under the delusion that Biden is going to do anything like that.

Also, another good dodge.  "I don't need to prove you wrong, I just have to call your argument hysterical and I can just ignore it"


You didn't prove yourself "right."

You basically called a national lockdown "fascism" comparable to Trump's.  Never mind how many lives it saves, never mind if it contains the virus, never farking mind if there are Supreme Court cases that would justify the move.

Go back to 4chan with that shiat.
 
2020-09-18 6:44:01 PM  

NEDM: themindiswatching: One thing I can see happening is all passports being invalidated and vaccinations being required to regain them (once a vaccine comes out, of course). That would at least allow the rest of the world to lift their bans on Americans, anyway, possibly without visa or quarantine requirements--which would be a morale boost and might give Biden some political capital to work with. However, I can see this move being extremely controversial given the lack of trust as previously mentioned.

"Extremely controversial" does not even begin to cover unilaterally invalidating all passports in the country and requiring everyone to reapply for them.  Let's just set aside the terrifying concept of the government indefinitely suspending the ability of its citizens to leave its borders for the moment, and imagine the bureaucratic snarl that would result from millions of passports having to be reissued with additional verification.  The Passport Office is already almost overwhelmed, this would completely destroy it.  People wouldn't be able get a new passport for literal years.  Any American travels abroad for work would have their career gutted, maybe even permanently destroyed.  And this are the people you're verifying as being safe to travel too!

Another side effect is that if you unilaterally invalidated the passport of every American citizen, literally every American ex-pat in the entire farking world would have to immediately uproot their life whereever they are and travel back to the US that very day to start a new life.  Invalidating their passport invalidates their visa as well, and even after they get their passport back they'll have to reapply to live whereever they were previously.


The passport office already allows expedited processing if you're going to be traveling in a short timeframe, so business travelers won't be totally screwed. Not that many people will be able to travel in the first place, mind you, because our economy also got f*cked pretty hard by COVID (to the point that I fully expect an L-shaped recovery once the pandemic is finally under control). Even then, additional funding to add extra staff/resources to the passport office is in the purview of the federal government and something I'd expect as part of any attempted invalidation.

As for ex-pats, allowances could be made for them, acknowledging the fact that the rest of the world handled it a hell of a lot better and thus it's a lot safer for them to stay where they are. Biden, as President, is also in charge of foreign policy--meaning that he could negotiate with world leaders to ensure they're not f*cked. Hell, if a full invalidation of most passports is out of the question, he might be able to get the places that currently have a full ban on Americans to at least drop that down to e.g. a mandatory quarantine--especially if the TSA enforcement of vaccination happens (solely or along with partial/full passport invalidation).

Anyway, this is mainly a thought exercise. In real life, I'm not sure Biden would be able to do much even with a vaccine due to the whole "people rightly doubting its safety" thing.

/thanks, Trump, you f*cking asshole
//if there were justice, he'd be shipped off to the Hague on January 21st.
 
2020-09-18 6:56:08 PM  

whidbey: You didn't prove yourself "right."

You basically called a national lockdown "fascism" comparable to Trump's. Never mind how many lives it saves, never mind if it contains the virus, never farking mind if there are Supreme Court cases that would justify the move.

Go back to 4chan with that shiat.


There's another one!  Anyone who doesn't toe the line is from /pol/!  Lying about my argument and using strawmen, and you tell ME to go back to 4chan?  Cute.

I didn't say it was "fascism", I said it was a dictatorial overreach of the executive.  Which it would be you dip.  The President, as of now, does not have the farking authority to order anything like that without imposing martial farking law.  That's not how the government works and you farking know it.  Show me where the president has the authority to do anything like that without declaring martial law on a nationwide scale.
The Supreme Court says-

The Supreme Court says that during periods of health emergencies rights can be curtailed to prevent the spread BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES, yes.  It does not say that the President has the authority to override those local authorities+Congress and dictate laws to the states, counties, and cities directly.  Any kind of nationwide lockdown would be challenged IMMEDIATELY by all 50 state AGs and the ACLU and you know it.

Think of how many lives it saves!
This is utterly irrelevant to the argument over whether or not the President can legally do it.
 
2020-09-18 7:04:32 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Godscrack: Arizona FINALLY Decided to use police to enforce masks in public. After 6 months and thousands of infections and 2,000 Covid related deaths.
I guess Trump's buddy Republican Gov. Ducey figured the virus has killed off enough Native Americans, black and Hispanics they can start acting like they care about whoever is left.

They should use the national guard and give them the freedom to fire on any and all maskless plague rats.  No mercy.  Zero tolerance.

The states need to lock down their borders, nothing in or out, for 6 months.  NOTHING.  The counties and large cities need to lockdown their borders too, nothing in or out for 6 months.  There needs to be ultra fear.  Asking nicely hasn't worked.  Now we need to make the pants go brown to stop the plague rats.


Yet we are marching in the streets about cops using excessive force to control farking riots and complaining that the National Guard is being called into some locations. This is a whole nother level of ironic.
 
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