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(MPR News)   Sure the police might have some bad apples, but a review of 2,400 cases only found misconduct 54% of the time   (mprnews.org) divider line
    More: Sad, Crime, prosecutor misconduct, rates of police, Criminal justice, Crimes, Police, common form of misconduct, crime scene  
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3021 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Sep 2020 at 5:50 PM (39 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-15 4:41:38 PM  
finding that 54 percent were sent to prison because of intentional or negligent mistakes by police, prosecutors and other law enforcement officials.

Mmhmm. "Intentional mistake".

New rule: the Eight Amendment doesn't apply to government employees and we bring back scaphism for this sort of gross misconduct.
 
2020-09-15 5:26:33 PM  
Their definition of "Bad apples" sounds an awful lot like Target's produce section. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
 
2020-09-15 5:51:17 PM  
Non-story. Overzealous data.
 
2020-09-15 5:51:55 PM  
Can you make good liquor out of bad apples? Seems like you're halfway there....???
 
2020-09-15 5:52:44 PM  
And they've investigated themselves in 100% of those cases.

Where's the oversight?

/ and don't say internal affairs.
 
2020-09-15 5:55:28 PM  
imfdb.orgView Full Size

we were of job age, so jobs we found
 
2020-09-15 5:56:27 PM  
54% of the time all the time
 
2020-09-15 6:00:44 PM  
54% of cases in which people were convicted and then exonerated.
 
2020-09-15 6:03:54 PM  
So only half of the police force are terrible.

Imagine if half of teachers were found to have sexual contact with minors. Or half the medical complications in a hospital were due to grossly negligent surgeons?

We would be rioting. Oh, wait....we are.
 
2020-09-15 6:04:01 PM  
Well luckily all those cops are still employed. I would hate to see them suffer real consequences for their misconduct.
 
2020-09-15 6:06:44 PM  
What's the end of the 'bad apple' idiom?

One or two bad apples....RUINS THE WHOLE FARKING BUNCH!!

Get rid of all these cops, they shouldn't be able to get jobs as prison guards or mall cops.  Make 'em pump gas in Oregon and New Jersey.  FARKERS!!!
 
2020-09-15 6:07:43 PM  
preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2020-09-15 6:07:52 PM  
2400 cases over 20 years. Out of how many cases?
 
2020-09-15 6:11:15 PM  
So 1,200 bad cases out of 500,000,000 or so.
 
2020-09-15 6:12:29 PM  

TheVirginMarty: So 1,200 bad cases out of 500,000,000 or so.


... That this organization has had the time and resources to investigate.
 
2020-09-15 6:13:40 PM  
That's really bad.

Even giving them the best spin possible, quality control would only allow 10% failure before throwing out the product line.
 
2020-09-15 6:15:32 PM  

KCinPA: 2400 cases over 20 years. Out of how many cases?


These are just convictions that have been overturned.  That's all they looked at.
 
2020-09-15 6:17:28 PM  

Hobbess: TheVirginMarty: So 1,200 bad cases out of 500,000,000 or so.

... That this organization has had the time and resources to investigate.


Of course. I actually low balled a bit. I'm sure it's more like a few billion criminal cases in that time frame.

I believe reforms are very much needed. I also think that the actual amount of bad cop stuff is way below the amount of good stuff.

Certainly less deaths by cop than an average year in Chicago let alone all the other violent cities.
 
2020-09-15 6:17:55 PM  

Gyrfalcon: That's really bad.

Even giving them the best spin possible, quality control would only allow 10% failure before throwing out the product line.


Plus every future conviction of the prosecutors/cops needs to be re-examined because they are now tainted, forever.
 
2020-09-15 6:18:39 PM  
Depressingly unsurprising. Or unsurprisingly depressing.

Imagine how bad it was before white people actually gave a fark about wrongful convictions. Of anybody, much less black people.
 
2020-09-15 6:19:04 PM  

PluckYew: Gyrfalcon: That's really bad.

Even giving them the best spin possible, quality control would only allow 10% failure before throwing out the product line.

Plus every future conviction of the prosecutors/cops needs to be re-examined because they are now tainted, forever.


There's no time constraint on this, everything any of them were a part of is suspect.
 
2020-09-15 6:24:27 PM  
When you take this and add all the cases that cops never solve at all, especially rape, and you get an organization that's pretty shiat at what they're supposed to be doing.
 
2020-09-15 6:30:55 PM  
It wasn't half the police that were misbehaving. In half the cases in which people were convicted and exonerated, there was police misbehavior.
 
2020-09-15 6:33:25 PM  

12349876: When you take this and add all the cases that cops never solve at all, especially rape, and you get an organization that's pretty shiat at what they're supposed to be doing.


The only way it would be possible to solve everything is some sort of minority report thing.

How many cases are unsolved because "nobody saw anything?"

Like that 8yo girl who was shot by black militia members in Atlanta. She gets no justice because "nobody saw anything."
 
2020-09-15 6:42:04 PM  
These weren't just 2,400 random cases, subby. They were cases where a defendant was convicted and later exonerated. According to the study, in the last 31 years there were 2,663 such cases - a tiny percentage of the overall convictions in that same time period. 35% of those wrongful convictions were attributed to police misconduct.

So, of the 2,400 cases studied, 840 convictions - 27 per year on average - were overturned due to "misconduct" by police. I put that in quotes because misconduct includes false confessions and misidentification by witnesses, even though many of those cases are not the fault of the police or prosecutors.

There's no database for number of felony convictions per year in the US, but a rough estimate is about 100,000. In 31 years that's roughly 3,100,000 felony convictions. Of those, .00027% were overturned due to police misconduct. Of course none of those is acceptable, but it's a tiny percentage of overall convictions. Hardly an "alarming" rate of misconduct the headline of the article claims.
 
2020-09-15 6:44:17 PM  

TheVirginMarty: So 1,200 bad cases out of 500,000,000 or so.


Bootlicker-like-typing detected.

It's 1200 cases of the 2400 exonerations that were investigated. No, 500,000,000 cases weren't reviewed. And even if it were, that's not acceptable. No wrongful conviction should be acceptable.
 
2020-09-15 6:44:42 PM  

CruiserTwelve: These weren't just 2,400 random cases, subby. They were cases where a defendant was convicted and later exonerated. According to the study, in the last 31 years there were 2,663 such cases - a tiny percentage of the overall convictions in that same time period. 35% of those wrongful convictions were attributed to police misconduct.

So, of the 2,400 cases studied, 840 convictions - 27 per year on average - were overturned due to "misconduct" by police. I put that in quotes because misconduct includes false confessions and misidentification by witnesses, even though many of those cases are not the fault of the police or prosecutors.

There's no database for number of felony convictions per year in the US, but a rough estimate is about 100,000. In 31 years that's roughly 3,100,000 felony convictions. Of those, .00027% were overturned due to police misconduct. Of course none of those is acceptable, but it's a tiny percentage of overall convictions. Hardly an "alarming" rate of misconduct the headline of the article claims.


Dude, its appalling. It should be zero.
 
2020-09-15 6:45:12 PM  
Chris Rock - Tamborine (2018) - Bad Apples
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2020-09-15 6:46:46 PM  

TheVirginMarty: So 1,200 bad cases out of 500,000,000 or so.


No, 1,200 bad cases out of 2,400. Your reading comprehension and understanding of statistics needs improvement.
 
2020-09-15 6:55:18 PM  
We should put the government in charge of the police.
 
2020-09-15 6:58:26 PM  

TheVirginMarty: Of course. I actually low balled a bit. I'm sure it's more like a few billion criminal cases in that time frame.

I believe reforms are very much needed. I also think that the actual amount of bad cop stuff is way below the amount of good stuff.

Certainly less deaths by cop than an average year in Chicago let alone all the other violent cities.


The Innocence Project estimates that between 2.5% and 5% of all prisoners in US prisons were wrongfully convicted. That's about 120k prisoners.

This review claims that 54% of those prisoners are there due to police misconduct or error. That's about 65k.

I'm not okay with this.
 
2020-09-15 7:02:37 PM  

Super Chronic: 54% of cases in which people were convicted and then exonerated.


Yeah, this article would be much more important if it had more inclusive data.  Take a random sample of all cases and review them for bias.  The number may not be as flashy but it will actually tell you something.  (Of course, even a random sampling of all cases has problems... if a cop only pulls over black drivers unless you look at the larger total of his cases you could miss that.  Even if he is, after he pulls someone over for driving while black, absolutely scrupulous about only issuing tickets to people who were actually speeding initial criteria for the stop has already crept into the dataset.
 
2020-09-15 7:04:19 PM  

Usurper4: The Innocence Project estimates that between 2.5% and 5% of all prisoners in US prisons were wrongfully convicted.


The Innocence Project also refuses to reveal how many cases they have confirmed to be valid convictions based on their investigations. Until they do that I give their estimates very little credibility.
 
2020-09-15 7:08:17 PM  

CruiserTwelve: The Innocence Project also refuses to reveal how many cases they have confirmed to be valid convictions based on their investigations. Until they do that I give their estimates very little credibility.


Ummm, that's not their mandate.

When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Try telling the family of a wrongfully convicted person that their conviction is acceptable. You have a duty to do better.
 
2020-09-15 7:08:33 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Dude, its appalling. It should be zero.


Hence the reason I said this:

CruiserTwelve: Of course none of those is acceptable, but it's a tiny percentage of overall convictions.

 
2020-09-15 7:10:15 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Usurper4: The Innocence Project estimates that between 2.5% and 5% of all prisoners in US prisons were wrongfully convicted.

The Innocence Project also refuses to reveal how many cases they have confirmed to be valid convictions based on their investigations. Until they do that I give their estimates very little credibility.


Does 3% seem high to you?

Their mission is to free falsely convicted people, not be the auditor of the police force, writ large.
 
2020-09-15 7:12:58 PM  
That's barely less than half!
 
2020-09-15 7:22:26 PM  

slantsix: Ummm, that's not their mandate.


No, it's not their mandate, but why would they refuse to disclose the number of convictions that were confirmed? The only reason I can see is that they want to create and further a distrust in the criminal justice system.

In 28 years, the Innocence Project has obtained the exoneration of 367 people. That's seems to be a lot, but it's a very small percentage of the total number of convictions. Most of those exonerations were based on DNA evidence that was not available at the time of the convictions, not on police misconduct.
 
2020-09-15 7:38:21 PM  
I know this is deeply rhetorical but as a cop how does it not bother their conscience to send an innocent person to jail? I'm specifically talking about TFA noting the 44% of cases when the prosecution knowingly concealed evidence that could have cleared the defendant.
 
2020-09-15 7:48:09 PM  

TheVirginMarty: Hobbess: TheVirginMarty: So 1,200 bad cases out of 500,000,000 or so.

... That this organization has had the time and resources to investigate.

Of course. I actually low balled a bit. I'm sure it's more like a few billion criminal cases in that time frame.

I believe reforms are very much needed. I also think that the actual amount of bad cop stuff is way below the amount of good stuff.

Certainly less deaths by cop than an average year in Chicago let alone all the other violent cities.


You think that there were a few billion criminal convictions in the US over a period of 30 years? You do know how many Americans there are, right? Did we all go to prison once every three years for the past 30 years?
 
2020-09-15 7:51:15 PM  

CruiserTwelve: These weren't just 2,400 random cases, subby. They were cases where a defendant was convicted and later exonerated. According to the study, in the last 31 years there were 2,663 such cases - a tiny percentage of the overall convictions in that same time period. 35% of those wrongful convictions were attributed to police misconduct.

So, of the 2,400 cases studied, 840 convictions - 27 per year on average - were overturned due to "misconduct" by police. I put that in quotes because misconduct includes false confessions and misidentification by witnesses, even though many of those cases are not the fault of the police or prosecutors.

There's no database for number of felony convictions per year in the US, but a rough estimate is about 100,000. In 31 years that's roughly 3,100,000 felony convictions. Of those, .00027% were overturned due to police misconduct. Of course none of those is acceptable, but it's a tiny percentage of overall convictions. Hardly an "alarming" rate of misconduct the headline of the article claims.


Wait until you hear how few cases actually have been reviewed and of the ones that are how in many states innocence alone isn't sufficient to overturn a conviction.
 
2020-09-15 7:52:21 PM  

paygun: We should put the government in charge of the police.


You jest, but yes. Civilian oversight of the police - particularly sheriffs - is much needed.
 
2020-09-15 7:53:37 PM  

CruiserTwelve: slantsix: Ummm, that's not their mandate.

No, it's not their mandate, but why would they refuse to disclose the number of convictions that were confirmed? The only reason I can see is that they want to create and further a distrust in the criminal justice system.

In 28 years, the Innocence Project has obtained the exoneration of 367 people. That's seems to be a lot, but it's a very small percentage of the total number of convictions. Most of those exonerations were based on DNA evidence that was not available at the time of the convictions, not on police misconduct.


Of the police internal complaints against officers, how many are made public?

Until the police make those public they are suspect of maki g an artificially positive image.

Of course, this isn't true, but neither is your statement about the innocence project.
 
2020-09-15 7:53:54 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Usurper4: The Innocence Project estimates that between 2.5% and 5% of all prisoners in US prisons were wrongfully convicted.

The Innocence Project also refuses to reveal how many cases they have confirmed to be valid convictions based on their investigations. Until they do that I give their estimates very little credibility.


They are cleaning up your mess. Show a little respect.
 
2020-09-15 7:55:07 PM  

CruiserTwelve: slantsix: Ummm, that's not their mandate.

No, it's not their mandate, but why would they refuse to disclose the number of convictions that were confirmed? The only reason I can see is that they want to create and further a distrust in the criminal justice system.

In 28 years, the Innocence Project has obtained the exoneration of 367 people. That's seems to be a lot, but it's a very small percentage of the total number of convictions. Most of those exonerations were based on DNA evidence that was not available at the time of the convictions, not on police misconduct.


In this case "most" apparently means "just over half" since about half of those were from police misconduct where zero police were arrested.
 
2020-09-15 7:56:09 PM  

TheVirginMarty: So 1,200 bad cases out of 500,000,000 or so.


My god, are you stupid.  How did you even manage to type that with all the drool on the keyboard?
 
2020-09-15 7:57:05 PM  

doosh: I know this is deeply rhetorical but as a cop how does it not bother their conscience to send an innocent person to jail? I'm specifically talking about TFA noting the 44% of cases when the prosecution knowingly concealed evidence that could have cleared the defendant.


Oh they most likely believe that the ends justify the means.  They were guilty of something, so what if they had to make shiat up or ignore exculpatory evidence to get a conviction?  It's worth it just to get one more blah person off the streets.
 
2020-09-15 8:06:40 PM  

TheVirginMarty: So 1,200 bad cases out of 500,000,000 or so.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-15 8:12:23 PM  
10% i might believe, 20 no way. 54% nope, so if you lie once i don't believe any.
 
2020-09-15 8:13:52 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Usurper4: The Innocence Project estimates that between 2.5% and 5% of all prisoners in US prisons were wrongfully convicted.

The Innocence Project also refuses to reveal how many cases they have confirmed to be valid convictions based on their investigations. Until they do that I give their estimates very little credibility.


Lemme know when cops start arresting their own for murder and domestic abuse rampant in their ranks before nation wide protests, and then feel free to throw stones about the underfunded innocence project that has to be careful what they say because not EVERYONE has farking qualified immunity and can act and say anything with no repercussion.
 
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