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(Some Time Lord)   At the 16^@th stroke since the Epoch, it will be Sunday, 13-Sep-20 12:26:40 UTC. You have approximately 18 years to solve the Year 2038 Problem   (unixtimestamp.com) divider line
    More: Misc, Unix time, unix time stamp, System time, Unix, Coordinated Universal Time, particular date, Time t, computer systems  
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749 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 13 Sep 2020 at 10:30 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-13 9:43:36 AM  
Not my problem. I survived the 2000 Apocalypse. It's somebody else's turn at the wheel.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2020-09-13 9:51:08 AM  
I'd love to see Biden promote fixing this just to watch the orange idiot's response.
 
2020-09-13 10:32:21 AM  
I'll be damn near 100 years old at that point. I'll probably just sit on my porch with some whiskey and laugh as the world asplodes.
 
2020-09-13 10:58:32 AM  
Will this affect pornography servers?  If not, IDGAF
I will be 59 years old and fapping away
 
2020-09-13 11:10:17 AM  
Problem is already solved, get back to me when 64-bit counters aren't enough anymore.
 
2020-09-13 11:18:22 AM  
So why exactly did someone decide that "time elapsed" should be a signed number anyway?
 
2020-09-13 11:36:26 AM  

Chromium_One: Problem is already solved, get back to me when 64-bit counters aren't enough anymore.


Yah, hopefully all those little IoT devices that are running on 32bit arches are life cycled by then.  Fairly safe bet all the non-critical ones will be due to that being built into their design, but the critical ones...the ones that 'just work' and get forgotten about for years?  Elevator controllers and what not?  Those are the ones to be wary of.
 
2020-09-13 11:58:06 AM  

BumpInTheNight: Chromium_One: Problem is already solved, get back to me when 64-bit counters aren't enough anymore.

Yah, hopefully all those little IoT devices that are running on 32bit arches are life cycled by then.  Fairly safe bet all the non-critical ones will be due to that being built into their design, but the critical ones...the ones that 'just work' and get forgotten about for years?  Elevator controllers and what not?  Those are the ones to be wary of.


This exactly matches arguments given about y2k.  There was a LOT of work required to make it mostly a fizzle, but hell this time there's greater (and earlier) awareness and most of the work is already done.
 
2020-09-13 12:00:24 PM  
So basically the 32 bit limit is a bit over 2.1 billion, while the 64 bit limit is 9,223,372,036,854,775,807


which is 9 billion billion right?
 
2020-09-13 12:05:37 PM  

AirForceVet: Not my problem. I survived the 2000 Apocalypse. It's somebody else's turn at the wheel.


Came here for this, leaving happily. I did my time dealing with Y2K. I got insurance companies, banks, and other folks through that hell, and the thanks I got was "...well, nothing big happened, so I guess it wasn't very important, then."

I will watch it all burn the fark down on 2038 before I do that again. 80+ hour weeks for months at a stretch. High-pressure refactoring & coding on code bases that were old before I got there. Asshole bosses who didn't understand what "date windowing" was, never mind why it was a really short-farking-sighted solution to a problem that could've been avoided years ago. Agencies that, because they charged a premium for "Y2K developers," screwed us by paying us only 25-30% of what they were taking off the customers for our services.

Nah, fark that. I'll watch it all burn once that farking integer rolls over.
 
2020-09-13 12:09:40 PM  

Chromium_One: BumpInTheNight: Chromium_One: Problem is already solved, get back to me when 64-bit counters aren't enough anymore.

Yah, hopefully all those little IoT devices that are running on 32bit arches are life cycled by then.  Fairly safe bet all the non-critical ones will be due to that being built into their design, but the critical ones...the ones that 'just work' and get forgotten about for years?  Elevator controllers and what not?  Those are the ones to be wary of.

This exactly matches arguments given about y2k.  There was a LOT of work required to make it mostly a fizzle, but hell this time there's greater (and earlier) awareness and most of the work is already done.


Frankly, that's a naively optimistic take. I can tell you from personal experience that most of that work likely isn't already done - that, instead of moving to 64-bit datetime fields, they simply date-windowed the 32-bit datetime fields that they were already using. Date windowing was a convenient, fast, and cheap solution, and at least 5 of the 8 clients with whom I worked on Y2K chose date windowing, because they were running on systems written 20 or 30 years ago and didn't want to spend the fortune it would take to redo them.

At least 2 of my clients no longer exist, including a big one - Washington Mutual - so it's a moot point for them, but I'm betting the other 3 are going to do something cheap, fast, and stupid instead of expensive, thorough, and forward-looking.
 
2020-09-13 2:12:27 PM  
I just set a reminder on my phone. I'll have 7 seconds warning. :-)
 
2020-09-13 3:17:38 PM  
I fixed Y2K.  Your turn.
 
2020-09-13 4:05:37 PM  

Kerr Avon: So why exactly did someone decide that "time elapsed" should be a signed number anyway?


Uh, since we might want to represent dates and times in the past?  The universe didn't begin in 1970.
 
2020-09-13 4:10:13 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: Kerr Avon: So why exactly did someone decide that "time elapsed" should be a signed number anyway?

Uh, since we might want to represent dates and times in the past?  The universe didn't begin in 1970.


Makes me wonder about the possibility that a couple hundred years from now there will be a group of conspiracy nuts who latch onto the concept that the universe really did start in 1970, because of some ancient texts known as Programming in C for Dummies.
 
2020-09-13 4:19:52 PM  

FormlessOne: At least 2 of my clients no longer exist, including a big one - Washington Mutual - so it's a moot point for them ...


During a six-year stint in fintech, I found that banks were among the last to upgrade core systems for exactly the reason you mention. When I found ATM's still running Windows XP in 2010, it wasn't lost on me that if they wouldn't upgrade the ATM's, they certainly wouldn't hire some COBOL programmer to do a long-term fix for a core system they hoped to outsource to Fiserv or Jack Henry in a couple of years. (COBOL programmers were expensive because of the health plans they had to buy after they baked their way through the 70's, snorted coke through the 80's, and had heart attacks in the '90's despite going all crunchy-granola after crack made cocaine unfashionable.) The question for those old WaMu customers is, did Chase spring for the permanent fix?
 
2020-09-13 4:21:01 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Sum Dum Gai: Kerr Avon: So why exactly did someone decide that "time elapsed" should be a signed number anyway?

Uh, since we might want to represent dates and times in the past?  The universe didn't begin in 1970.

Makes me wonder about the possibility that a couple hundred years from now there will be a group of conspiracy nuts who latch onto the concept that the universe really did start in 1970, because of some ancient texts known as Programming in C for Dummies.


Doubtful, as a signed 64-bit time_t should last longer than humans - it won't tick over for about 292 billion years. That's a little over 21 times longer than the apparent age of the universe (at 13.8 billion years.)

No, they're gonna look back a couple of hundred years from now and laugh uproariously about how we thought 32 bits was ever going to be enough.
 
2020-09-13 4:27:24 PM  

FormlessOne: BumpInTheNight: Sum Dum Gai: Kerr Avon: So why exactly did someone decide that "time elapsed" should be a signed number anyway?

Uh, since we might want to represent dates and times in the past?  The universe didn't begin in 1970.

Makes me wonder about the possibility that a couple hundred years from now there will be a group of conspiracy nuts who latch onto the concept that the universe really did start in 1970, because of some ancient texts known as Programming in C for Dummies.

Doubtful, as a signed 64-bit time_t should last longer than humans - it won't tick over for about 292 billion years. That's a little over 21 times longer than the apparent age of the universe (at 13.8 billion years.)

No, they're gonna look back a couple of hundred years from now and laugh uproariously about how we thought 32 bits was ever going to be enough.


I dunno, it might just save us from some world-ending event if we don't play our cards right:
Fark user imageView Full Size



...heh, speaking of how we're so good at handling well forecast'ed impending doom in the IT industry...
 
2020-09-13 4:27:51 PM  

Bimmer Jones: FormlessOne: At least 2 of my clients no longer exist, including a big one - Washington Mutual - so it's a moot point for them ...

During a six-year stint in fintech, I found that banks were among the last to upgrade core systems for exactly the reason you mention. When I found ATM's still running Windows XP in 2010, it wasn't lost on me that if they wouldn't upgrade the ATM's, they certainly wouldn't hire some COBOL programmer to do a long-term fix for a core system they hoped to outsource to Fiserv or Jack Henry in a couple of years. (COBOL programmers were expensive because of the health plans they had to buy after they baked their way through the 70's, snorted coke through the 80's, and had heart attacks in the '90's despite going all crunchy-granola after crack made cocaine unfashionable.) The question for those old WaMu customers is, did Chase spring for the permanent fix?


If you think banks are bad, try insurance companies. Look up CIGNA's "New World Initiative" if you want a lovely example of a company desperate to keep their '70s-era mainframes but still use "modern" technologies like OS/2 and Windows 3.1/3.11/NT 3.51 to let site offices sell new business driven by old code. That was, what, 22 years ago? I was a dev for one of the teams who worked on that initiative; it's why I eventually moved out here, as I was traveling a lot to install servers and networks, then train folks at site offices on how to use our application suite.

I'd consider putting money down on the idea that they're STILL running that code.

As for COBOL, my wife is an old COBOL dev; I keep trying to push her back onto the market. She's happy to remain a burden. :) I keep telling her that she's got until 2037 to think about it.
 
2020-09-13 4:29:33 PM  

BumpInTheNight: FormlessOne: BumpInTheNight: Sum Dum Gai: Kerr Avon: So why exactly did someone decide that "time elapsed" should be a signed number anyway?

Uh, since we might want to represent dates and times in the past?  The universe didn't begin in 1970.

Makes me wonder about the possibility that a couple hundred years from now there will be a group of conspiracy nuts who latch onto the concept that the universe really did start in 1970, because of some ancient texts known as Programming in C for Dummies.

Doubtful, as a signed 64-bit time_t should last longer than humans - it won't tick over for about 292 billion years. That's a little over 21 times longer than the apparent age of the universe (at 13.8 billion years.)

No, they're gonna look back a couple of hundred years from now and laugh uproariously about how we thought 32 bits was ever going to be enough.

I dunno, it might just save us from some world-ending event if we don't play our cards right:
[Fark user image 740x251]


...heh, speaking of how we're so good at handling well forecast'ed impending doom in the IT industry...


Gotta love XKCD. :)
 
2020-09-13 4:43:37 PM  

Chromium_One: Problem is already solved, get back to me when 64-bit counters aren't enough anymore.


You want me to call you on Jan 24th, 293,274,702,979?
 
2020-09-13 5:23:55 PM  
CSB - my birthday is the same number in UTC and the UNIX epoch.
 
2020-09-13 8:32:47 PM  

Kerr Avon: So why exactly did someone decide that "time elapsed" should be a signed number anyway?


When that was decided, there were 9 bit computers still in common use. That would leave a time_t on those systems to be 36 bits.

If you can convince a solaris based system that the time predates negative 2^32, it breaks the loader and you can only run static binaries.
 
2020-09-14 6:51:44 AM  

jakedata: CSB - my birthday is the same number in UTC and the UNIX epoch.


I believe that makes you the Kwisatz Haderach.
 
2020-09-14 12:35:57 PM  

FormlessOne: AirForceVet: Not my problem. I survived the 2000 Apocalypse. It's somebody else's turn at the wheel.

Came here for this, leaving happily. I did my time dealing with Y2K. I got insurance companies, banks, and other folks through that hell, and the thanks I got was "...well, nothing big happened, so I guess it wasn't very important, then."

I will watch it all burn the fark down on 2038 before I do that again. 80+ hour weeks for months at a stretch. High-pressure refactoring & coding on code bases that were old before I got there. Asshole bosses who didn't understand what "date windowing" was, never mind why it was a really short-farking-sighted solution to a problem that could've been avoided years ago. Agencies that, because they charged a premium for "Y2K developers," screwed us by paying us only 25-30% of what they were taking off the customers for our services.

Nah, fark that. I'll watch it all burn once that farking integer rolls over.


That's the problem with doing things right the first time -- people don't realize how difficult it was.  (even though much of it was tedious more than difficult for that one ... so long as you had the source to modify, and compatible libraries)

But I remember seeing someone running WWWBoard well past 2000 printing out dates as "19103" and the like.  And there was another strange perl time quirk years ago -- 'sort' will use string comparisons by default.  So when the epoch rolled over from something like 9,999,999 to 10,000,000, some people were seeing new entries showing up at the wrong end of their lists.   (this was the late 1990s, I think).

And anyone dealing with GPS has already had to deal with these issues, as it uses 10bit time.
 
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