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(Washington Post)   Retire the filibuster, before it's too late and somehow gets filibustered ...or something   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, United States Senate, Barack Obama, Senate chiefs of staff, United States, threat of a filibuster, clear majority, former president Barack Obama, Senate Democrats  
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914 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Sep 2020 at 8:49 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2020-09-08 1:37:53 PM  
Didn't Democrats learn their lesson with the nuclear option?  I guess not. The pendulum will swing again.
 
2020-09-08 1:47:52 PM  

ZAZ: Didn't Democrats learn their lesson with the nuclear option?  I guess not. The pendulum will swing again.


Get rammed. 51 votes should pass a bill, period.

No other legislative body in the world allows dipshiats to halt legislation like the undemocratic antiquated and stupid US Senate.

Killing the filibuster is merely the beginning of electoral sanity.
 
2020-09-08 3:44:34 PM  
At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.
 
2020-09-08 6:57:53 PM  

iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.


Even that blows. It was only used to prevent or delay civil rights legislation. That has been the only thing of relevance it has ever been used for.
 
2020-09-08 7:25:23 PM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.

Even that blows. It was only used to prevent or delay civil rights legislation. That has been the only thing of relevance it has ever been used for.


Agreed. Yes that absolutely does blow. But, didn't D'Amato filibusters a defense spending bill in the 90's? Regardless, it remains one of the countless gentlemen's agreements that really needs to be codified. With pictures and shiat.
 
2020-09-08 8:51:43 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-08 8:52:26 PM  

iheartscotch: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.

Even that blows. It was only used to prevent or delay civil rights legislation. That has been the only thing of relevance it has ever been used for.

Agreed. Yes that absolutely does blow. But, didn't D'Amato filibusters a defense spending bill in the 90's? Regardless, it remains one of the countless gentlemen's agreements that really needs to be codified. With pictures and shiat.


I heard of one proposal for a degrading filibuster. Basically each cloture votes would require 2 less votes every time it was invoked for it to pass. So it'd go from 60 to 58 and on down until you hit 50-50 (+ VP).
 
2020-09-08 8:53:04 PM  

iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.


Bernie Sanders 8 1/2 hour Filibuster but it's Lofi
Youtube pm6qy_9E0rY
 
2020-09-08 8:55:00 PM  

iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.


s2.ezgif.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-08 8:57:24 PM  
I wish we could retire Chuck Schumer in November.  Senator Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a nice ring to it.
 
2020-09-08 8:57:51 PM  
Reason for: Republicans will use it to impede progress while they are in the minority

Against: It's the only tool allowing Democrats to impede a Republican Majority from being unmitigated assholes while they are in power
 
2020-09-08 8:58:38 PM  

iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.


I'm ok with this. If they want to play Jimmy Stewart, then they play Jimmy Stewart. Can't just say, "I'm going to filibuster" and make that be it. Go through with the motions.
 
2020-09-08 8:59:38 PM  
The filibuster was not intended to exist by the Founding Fathers, and it's been abused. Just destroy it. Bad things will happen, but plenty of bad things already happened.
 
2020-09-08 9:01:24 PM  

Scruffynerf: I wish we could retire Chuck Schumer in November.  Senator Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a nice ring to it.


That's 2024. Hopefully then, we in CA will be rid of Dianne Feinstein as well (her term's up in 2024) and perhaps Pelosi can move to greener pastures as well.

I'm happy to have Pelosi here an now to steer the House. But she better be grooming the next generation's speaker if the D's win in 2020. I expect Adam Schiff would be tapped.
 
2020-09-08 9:01:45 PM  

Scruffynerf: I wish we could retire Chuck Schumer in November.  Senator Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a nice ring to it.


Senate is generally the last stop on the political career train, when you choose that track.  I whole heartedly agree on Chuck though.
 
2020-09-08 9:02:42 PM  

Superjoe: The filibuster was not intended to exist by the Founding Fathers, and it's been abused. Just destroy it. Bad things will happen, but plenty of bad things already happened.


At the same time, the Founders agreed the the Legislature sets its own rules within the confines of the Legislature.
 
2020-09-08 9:03:23 PM  
In addition to ditching the filibuster, the minority party should be able to bring up X votes a session.

It's ridiculous that the House can pass a bill and the Senate doesn't even have to vote on it.
 
2020-09-08 9:04:53 PM  
Every bill passed in the House should have to face an up-down vote in the Senate. Make them go on record as to what they do and do not support rather than being able to flush things down a memory hole.

We need massive reform in our Federal Government and those that can accomplish that are the very ones who vehemently oppose it.
 
2020-09-08 9:05:58 PM  
Needing 60% isn't the problem.

The problem is that a small percentage of the population can get 41 seats in the senate because of the undemocratic way the senate works. They can then use the filibuster to impose the will of the minority.
 
2020-09-08 9:06:22 PM  
All republicans priorities can be made law with a 50+1 vote in the senate.

The Democratic Party better realize they should be playing by the same rules or it's over here.
 
2020-09-08 9:07:01 PM  
Excellent, informative thread by Harry Reid's former CoS. Absolutely abolish the filibuster. There is no good argument for it.

Link
 
2020-09-08 9:09:30 PM  

dericwater: Scruffynerf: I wish we could retire Chuck Schumer in November.  Senator Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a nice ring to it.

That's 2024. Hopefully then, we in CA will be rid of Dianne Feinstein as well (her term's up in 2024) and perhaps Pelosi can move to greener pastures as well.

I'm happy to have Pelosi here an now to steer the House. But she better be grooming the next generation's speaker if the D's win in 2020. I expect Adam Schiff would be tapped.


Why wait till then?

https://shahidforchange.us/
 
2020-09-08 9:10:28 PM  

iheartscotch: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.

Even that blows. It was only used to prevent or delay civil rights legislation. That has been the only thing of relevance it has ever been used for.

Agreed. Yes that absolutely does blow. But, didn't D'Amato filibusters a defense spending bill in the 90's? Regardless, it remains one of the countless gentlemen's agreements that really needs to be codified. With pictures and shiat.


All of the "gentleman's agreements" need to be codified.  Want to say you can't vote on a supreme court justice in the final year of a presidency, then write that shiat down?
 
2020-09-08 9:11:08 PM  
Abolish the filibuster.

Better yet, abolish the Senate.
 
2020-09-08 9:11:09 PM  

iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.


This, the no speaking fillibuster shouldn't exist period, it's a ridiculous concept.
 
2020-09-08 9:12:34 PM  

Scruffynerf: I wish we could retire Chuck Schumer in November.  Senator Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a nice ring to it.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size

But the charts!  He's all over it, you should cut him some slack. You can tell by how he approaches the chart from behind. The charts blind spot so to speak, and an easy victory for Chuck.
 
2020-09-08 9:13:08 PM  
I believe the rules can be changed with a new congress and those rules just take a majority vote that can't be filibustered because they are just accepting the rules.
 
2020-09-08 9:15:12 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Excellent, informative thread by Harry Reid's former CoS. Absolutely abolish the filibuster. There is no good argument for it.

Link


Until we get a smarter more competent Trump, then you'll be crying even harder that the Dems shot their foot off for a conservative presidency instead of sweeping progressive changes.
 
2020-09-08 9:16:12 PM  

Corvus: I believe the rules can be changed with a new congress and those rules just take a majority vote that can't be filibustered because they are just accepting the rules.


OH hahahaha.

I thought we were having a real conversation about this but reading  this thread it seems mostly people just screaming thinking they will somehow magically get everything they want with the filibuster gone.
 
2020-09-08 9:16:16 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-08 9:16:20 PM  

Xetal: Needing 60% isn't the problem.

The problem is that a small percentage of the population can get 41 seats in the senate because of the undemocratic way the senate works. They can then use the filibuster to impose the will of the minority.


Can you clarify what you mean by that?
 
2020-09-08 9:18:29 PM  

BlueDWarrior: iheartscotch: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.

Even that blows. It was only used to prevent or delay civil rights legislation. That has been the only thing of relevance it has ever been used for.

Agreed. Yes that absolutely does blow. But, didn't D'Amato filibusters a defense spending bill in the 90's? Regardless, it remains one of the countless gentlemen's agreements that really needs to be codified. With pictures and shiat.

I heard of one proposal for a degrading filibuster. Basically each cloture votes would require 2 less votes every time it was invoked for it to pass. So it'd go from 60 to 58 and on down until you hit 50-50 (+ VP).


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-08 9:19:42 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Until we get a smarter more competent Trump, then you'll be crying even harder that the Dems shot their foot off for a conservative presidency instead of sweeping progressive changes.


I am aware there will be future Republican presidents. The filibuster should be abolished. In fact, one reason is because there will be future Republican presidents. One way to remove the need for ever-more-law-straddling executive orders is to have a congress that can actually pass legislation.
 
2020-09-08 9:23:34 PM  
Senate: "I have a knife stabbed into my stomach and it's making it impossible for me to do anything."

Republicans: "Good."

Progressives: "Better remove it and patch the injury up."

Republicans: "We'll just stab them again somewhere else if you do."

Centrists: "You progressives are such immature children. If we remove the knife, they'll spurt blood everywhere. Better to leave the knife in because Republicans will just stab them again somewhere else."
 
2020-09-08 9:24:49 PM  

alitaki: Xetal: Needing 60% isn't the problem.

The problem is that a small percentage of the population can get 41 seats in the senate because of the undemocratic way the senate works. They can then use the filibuster to impose the will of the minority.

Can you clarify what you mean by that?



There are 762,062 people in North Dakota. They get 1 senator for every 381,000 people.
There are 39,510,000 people in California. They get 1 senator for every 19,755,000 people.

Definition of democracy
1a : government by the people especially : rule of the majority
The senate only exists to allow the minority to impose their will on the majority. That is not democratic.
 
2020-09-08 9:28:27 PM  

Weatherkiss: Senate: "I have a knife stabbed into my stomach and it's making it impossible for me to do anything."

Republicans: "Good."

Progressives: "Better remove it and patch the injury up."

Republicans: "We'll just stab them again somewhere else if you do."

Centrists: "You progressives are such immature children. If we remove the knife, they'll spurt blood everywhere. Better to leave the knife in because Republicans will just stab them again somewhere else."


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-08 9:30:41 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: dericwater: Scruffynerf: I wish we could retire Chuck Schumer in November.  Senator Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a nice ring to it.

That's 2024. Hopefully then, we in CA will be rid of Dianne Feinstein as well (her term's up in 2024) and perhaps Pelosi can move to greener pastures as well.

I'm happy to have Pelosi here an now to steer the House. But she better be grooming the next generation's speaker if the D's win in 2020. I expect Adam Schiff would be tapped.

Why wait till then?

https://shahidforchange.us/


Shahid is not the right alternative candidate. He has no clue or experience. I'd imagine either Scott Weiner or David Chiu would run for Pelosi's seat, but if a female candidate throws her hat in, perhaps Breed, I would consider that. Shahid is a nobody.
 
2020-09-08 9:31:55 PM  

ZAZ: Didn't Democrats learn their lesson with the nuclear option?  I guess not. The pendulum will swing again.


cram it, clown
 
2020-09-08 9:36:29 PM  

Xetal: alitaki: Xetal: Needing 60% isn't the problem.

The problem is that a small percentage of the population can get 41 seats in the senate because of the undemocratic way the senate works. They can then use the filibuster to impose the will of the minority.

Can you clarify what you mean by that?


There are 762,062 people in North Dakota. They get 1 senator for every 381,000 people.
There are 39,510,000 people in California. They get 1 senator for every 19,755,000 people.

Definition of democracy
1a : government by the people especially : rule of the majority
The senate only exists to allow the minority to impose their will on the majority. That is not democratic.


That's the point of the Senate.  Now do the house and you have a valid complaint.
 
2020-09-08 9:41:00 PM  

RogermcAllen: Xetal: alitaki: Xetal: Needing 60% isn't the problem.

The problem is that a small percentage of the population can get 41 seats in the senate because of the undemocratic way the senate works. They can then use the filibuster to impose the will of the minority.

Can you clarify what you mean by that?


There are 762,062 people in North Dakota. They get 1 senator for every 381,000 people.
There are 39,510,000 people in California. They get 1 senator for every 19,755,000 people.

Definition of democracy
1a : government by the people especially : rule of the majority
The senate only exists to allow the minority to impose their will on the majority. That is not democratic.

That's the point of the Senate.  Now do the house and you have a valid complaint.


Someone asked for clarification when I said the senate was not democratic. I was just responding with details on how the senate is not democratic.
 
2020-09-08 9:42:58 PM  

Xetal: Needing 60% isn't the problem.

The problem is that a small percentage of the population can get 41 seats in the senate because of the undemocratic way the senate works. They can then use the filibuster to impose the will of the minority.


YEAH BUT DO YOU WANT NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA RUNNING EVERY THING
 
2020-09-08 9:45:36 PM  
Maybe that's what this country needs. Get rid of the filibuster, then when each side is actually free to craft law the country can experience what it's actually like to live under each system instead of this hamstrung limping along wrath of a legislative body.

Maybe when the American people get what they voted for, and get it good and hard, they start having to pay attention to why their vote matters.  They can read about it in the bread lines.
 
2020-09-08 9:47:19 PM  

iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.


And it must prevent all other business from advancing. Want to vote on a popular bill, then the filibuster fails right then and there.

Today the filibuster is convenient and cost free for those who use it.  It should be an inconvenient and expensive to use.
 
2020-09-08 9:50:04 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Weatherkiss: Senate: "I have a knife stabbed into my stomach and it's making it impossible for me to do anything."

Republicans: "Good."

Progressives: "Better remove it and patch the injury up."

Republicans: "We'll just stab them again somewhere else if you do."

Centrists: "You progressives are such immature children. If we remove the knife, they'll spurt blood everywhere. Better to leave the knife in because Republicans will just stab them again somewhere else."

[Fark user image image 600x300]


Delusional much?
 
2020-09-08 9:51:23 PM  

ZAZ: Didn't Democrats learn their lesson with the nuclear option?  I guess not. The pendulum will swing again.


Why?  The filibuster is only used for racism and libertarian grandstanding.  If you want to kill an actaul bad bill you just have to tell people what it in it.
 
2020-09-08 9:51:33 PM  
The Lousiana purchase ruined the Senate.  It is horrible how a vote from a Wyoming Senator from has the same weight as a vote from a Californa or Texas Senator.  Took a while before a minority party realized it was easier to just gum up the works by having a no vote filibuster then to do any real work
 
2020-09-08 9:52:27 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Night Train to Wakanda: Until we get a smarter more competent Trump, then you'll be crying even harder that the Dems shot their foot off for a conservative presidency instead of sweeping progressive changes.

I am aware there will be future Republican presidents. The filibuster should be abolished. In fact, one reason is because there will be future Republican presidents. One way to remove the need for ever-more-law-straddling executive orders is to have a congress that can actually pass legislation.


Then what you want is a limit on executive powers. Not a limit on legislative authority,
 
2020-09-08 9:53:43 PM  

RogermcAllen: Xetal: alitaki: Xetal: Needing 60% isn't the problem.

The problem is that a small percentage of the population can get 41 seats in the senate because of the undemocratic way the senate works. They can then use the filibuster to impose the will of the minority.

Can you clarify what you mean by that?


There are 762,062 people in North Dakota. They get 1 senator for every 381,000 people.
There are 39,510,000 people in California. They get 1 senator for every 19,755,000 people.

Definition of democracy
1a : government by the people especially : rule of the majority
The senate only exists to allow the minority to impose their will on the majority. That is not democratic.

That's the point of the Senate.  Now do the house and you have a valid complaint.


Then the Senate is un-democratic by design, and that's shameful, and it should be abolished or restructured.    That it was designed to be un-democratic is in no way valid justification for its continued existence.
 
2020-09-08 9:54:44 PM  

iheartscotch: At least roll back the seated-nonspeaking Filibuster. They actually have to stand up at the podium and make themselves look like asshats.


This and if you go off topic for ex number of minutes, your time is expired.  Both sides should have plenty of time to tell us why they hate a bill.  They start reading from the phonebook, or some other nonsense, you are done.
 
2020-09-08 9:55:05 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Then what you want is a limit on executive powers. Not a limit on legislative authority,


I want to abolish the filibuster, the existence of which makes the executive stronger.
 
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