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(The Week)   A 'primary' example in Massachusetts demonstrates everything that is wrong with the Democratic Party   (theweek.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Democratic Party, Rep. Richard Neal, Alex Morse, 110th United States Congress, American Prospect, Republican-style dirty tricks campaign, worst Democrat, Democratic congressional primary  
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3190 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Aug 2020 at 10:38 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-31 9:33:40 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-31 9:40:16 AM  
If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.
 
2020-08-31 9:51:09 AM  

SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-31 10:12:05 AM  
There's nothing in that article that is unique to the Democratic party.  It's pretty worthless, content wise.

SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.


To paraphrase Churchill - All government sucks.  The challenge is finding which scheme sucks the least.
 
2020-08-31 10:28:56 AM  

FLMountainMan: SomeAmerican: I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.

To paraphrase Churchill - All government sucks.  The challenge is finding which scheme sucks the least.


But what sucks the least changes over time.  I see a need for continual optimization based on your current situation.  I.e. is your party closer to chaos than stagnation?  Tighten the reins.  Is your party closer to stagnation than chaos?  Loosen up some.

For the Republicans, I think they've been hijacked by grifters and extremists.  They need to define what it means to be a Republican, and then limit who is running as a Republican to people who believe in that... assuming that they still are capable of doing so.  For the Democrats, I think they need fresh blood and can afford to get a little crazy.  Perhaps they even NEED to get a little crazy.

A complicating factor though is the Republican meltdown.  The center has to hold for the country to avoid schism; one party has to hold the center at all times.  Right now that's up to the Democrats.
 
2020-08-31 10:42:59 AM  

SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.


The answer is to abolish political parties as the non-constitutional mess they are.

More realistically, changing away from the first-past-the-post system would go a long way to fix it.
 
2020-08-31 10:43:51 AM  
This article demonstrates everything that is wrong with paywalls.
 
2020-08-31 10:44:06 AM  
There seems to be a lot of concern in this article.
 
2020-08-31 10:46:35 AM  
If Democrats are to repair the terrible damage Trump is doing to this country, people like Neal and those who surround him have to go.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea to dump the losers, but the other side seems to be able to get done whatever they farking want with some real goobers like Gohmert, Cotton, Scalise, Paul, Cruz, Marsha Blackburn, Nunes, Issa, ...

Should I keep going or does everyone get the idea by now?
 
2020-08-31 10:46:43 AM  

SomeAmerican: A complicating factor though is the Republican meltdown.  The center has to hold for the country to avoid schism; one party has to hold the center at all times.  Right now that's up to the Democrats.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-31 10:47:00 AM  

SomeAmerican: For the Democrats, I think they need fresh blood and can afford to get a little crazy.  Perhaps they even NEED to get a little crazy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsmof​z​0wWSU
 
2020-08-31 10:47:25 AM  
But remember that time that Nancy clapped at the president?
 
2020-08-31 10:48:41 AM  

SomeAmerican: FLMountainMan: SomeAmerican: I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.

To paraphrase Churchill - All government sucks.  The challenge is finding which scheme sucks the least.

But what sucks the least changes over time.  I see a need for continual optimization based on your current situation.  I.e. is your party closer to chaos than stagnation?  Tighten the reins.  Is your party closer to stagnation than chaos?  Loosen up some.

For the Republicans, I think they've been hijacked by grifters and extremists.  They need to define what it means to be a Republican, and then limit who is running as a Republican to people who believe in that... assuming that they still are capable of doing so.  For the Democrats, I think they need fresh blood and can afford to get a little crazy.  Perhaps they even NEED to get a little crazy.

A complicating factor though is the Republican meltdown.  The center has to hold for the country to avoid schism; one party has to hold the center at all times.  Right now that's up to the Democrats.


The GOP has been the party of grifters and extremists since the 80's.  Trump isn't an outlier; he's the inevitable evolution of the party.
 
2020-08-31 10:49:17 AM  
A paywall is pretty bad, too, subby.
 
2020-08-31 10:50:17 AM  
Won't be able to fix it with the Trump's in power
 
2020-08-31 10:50:37 AM  

leeksfromchichis: [Fark user image 425x293]


I have no idea why this is getting so may smart votes since it's not even on topic.  It's not a Both Sides Are Bad article.

Also, just for one stupid tiny little example where that idea is complete bullshiat but looks real cutesy in a tweet-

Which party has been going to bat to keep pre-existing conditions covered for people while the other side has not only tried to eliminate that and replace it with NOTHING, but give away a few trillion dollars to the richest farking people on the planet while they do so?

Oh, just thought of an other one-  Which party is trying to kick out DACA recipients as fast as the courts will allow them and which is opposed?

Yeah.

That's what I thought.   Shove your image.
 
2020-08-31 10:53:25 AM  

FLMountainMan: There's nothing in that article that is unique to the Democratic party.  It's pretty worthless, content wise.

SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.

To paraphrase Churchill - All government sucks.  The challenge is finding which scheme sucks the least.


So what you're saying is that both sides are bad?
 
2020-08-31 10:54:02 AM  

misanthropicsob: SomeAmerican: A complicating factor though is the Republican meltdown.  The center has to hold for the country to avoid schism; one party has to hold the center at all times.  Right now that's up to the Democrats.

[Fark user image 425x196]


Really?
You think the Democrats are extreme Right currently?

They are much farther to the Left than in the 70s on all of the social issues and they are at least as far to the Left on the economic ones. The only thing they have slipped to the Right on is Unions, but since a huge chunk of Union voters are Trumpers I have been caring less and less about them.
 
2020-08-31 10:55:46 AM  
Doing a little Googling, I found out the following:

1. Neal is liberal on almost everything not mentioned in the farking article.
2. He's really good at bringing home the bacon.
3. His district is probably to the right of both candidates.  (Massachusetts is heavily Democratic but not exactly heavily liberal.)
4. Everybody acknowledges that the attempted smear was false and might backfire.

I think he'll probably hang on due to #2 and #3.
 
2020-08-31 10:56:28 AM  

misanthropicsob: SomeAmerican: A complicating factor though is the Republican meltdown.  The center has to hold for the country to avoid schism; one party has to hold the center at all times.  Right now that's up to the Democrats.

[Fark user image 425x196]



Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-31 10:57:01 AM  

misanthropicsob: [Fark user image 425x196]


[Citation Needed]
 
2020-08-31 10:58:35 AM  

SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.


No parties?
 
2020-08-31 10:59:28 AM  
The problem with a centrist party is that by its nature its members agree to de-prioritze some of their ideological positions in order to agree on something practical, and by its very nature power is very practical. The Republicans can be seen as centrist after a fashion because they unite otherwise disparate idiots in achieving a considerable amount of shared power.
 
2020-08-31 11:00:06 AM  

flondrix: SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.

No parties?


Literally impossible
 
2020-08-31 11:00:29 AM  
I'm not surprised to find the usual suspects defending the Democratic Party for being complicit in a homophobic trashing of a young progressive. Personally, I think Morse should sue the shiat out of the College Democrats and the MA Democratic Party for libel.

More so, the Democratic Party has long "claimed" they are even handed and never have an influence on the elections. That's since been proven to be a joke. The DCCC, much like the MA Democratic Party, regularly releases oppo research on progressive candidates, helps fund conservative candidates (even in districts that are reliably liberal) and always goes against the liberal party.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the DCCC was also involved with this "scandal" as it regularly participates in such kneecapping behaviors. If the Democrats would just let things happen naturally, they'd still be somewhat conservative but they wouldn't also be corrupt as f*ck while doing it.

I guess such is the outsized influence of lobbyists. It's a good thing that the Democratic presidential nominee surrounds himself with them, otherwise they would be hobbling his campaign as well.
 
2020-08-31 11:01:13 AM  

madgonad: Really?
You think the Democrats are extreme Right currently?


Yes.
 
2020-08-31 11:01:19 AM  
Gee, Democrats, it's almost as if the vast majority of voters want something your very people are paid off to prevent. Something that is somehow a no brainer in every other developed country in the world. This is the type of crap that has driven once reliable Democratic voters into the arms of the Corporatist GOP.
Both parties serve the same people. The Boobies in this thread showed exactly how they operate. It's like Starbucks claiming they are for LGBTQ+ and BLM while donating to people who are against it. They say one thing and do the opposite.
 
2020-08-31 11:01:27 AM  
You guys still defending the party that lost the republic?  Yes, they are very good.  Just look around at all the success.
 
2020-08-31 11:01:50 AM  

Geotpf: misanthropicsob: [Fark user image 425x196]

[Citation Needed]


RTFA.
 
2020-08-31 11:01:54 AM  

misanthropicsob: I'm not surprised to find the usual suspects defending the Democratic Party for being complicit in a homophobic trashing of a young progressive. Personally, I think Morse should sue the shiat out of the College Democrats and the MA Democratic Party for libel.

More so, the Democratic Party has long "claimed" they are even handed and never have an influence on the elections. That's since been proven to be a joke. The DCCC, much like the MA Democratic Party, regularly releases oppo research on progressive candidates, helps fund conservative candidates (even in districts that are reliably liberal) and always goes against the liberal party.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the DCCC was also involved with this "scandal" as it regularly participates in such kneecapping behaviors. If the Democrats would just let things happen naturally, they'd still be somewhat conservative but they wouldn't also be corrupt as f*ck while doing it.

I guess such is the outsized influence of lobbyists. It's a good thing that the Democratic presidential nominee surrounds himself with them, otherwise they would be hobbling his campaign as well.


When are you emigrating? You're obviously doing nothing to help, so when are you leaving?
 
2020-08-31 11:03:07 AM  

qorkfiend: flondrix: SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.

No parties?

Literally impossible


First amendment makes any attempt to restrict or ban them unconstitutional.  You could amend the constitution but hahaha wait you're serious let me laugh even harder.
 
2020-08-31 11:03:17 AM  
Neal is a shiatbag.  So is Lynch, my rep.

Either losing would be ambrosias icing on a Kennedy loss cake.
 
2020-08-31 11:03:36 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: leeksfromchichis: [Fark user image 425x293]

I have no idea why this is getting so may smart votes since it's not even on topic.  It's not a Both Sides Are Bad article.

Also, just for one stupid tiny little example where that idea is complete bullshiat but looks real cutesy in a tweet-

Which party has been going to bat to keep pre-existing conditions covered for people while the other side has not only tried to eliminate that and replace it with NOTHING, but give away a few trillion dollars to the richest farking people on the planet while they do so?

Oh, just thought of an other one-  Which party is trying to kick out DACA recipients as fast as the courts will allow them and which is opposed?

Yeah.

That's what I thought.   Shove your image.


Seemed pretty spot on based on the article. The party tried to fark over a candidate in favor of the incumbent that deliberately slowed an investigation into Trump* and works very hard not provide basic protections from predatory financial interests in healthcare.
 
2020-08-31 11:04:32 AM  

madgonad: misanthropicsob: SomeAmerican: A complicating factor though is the Republican meltdown.  The center has to hold for the country to avoid schism; one party has to hold the center at all times.  Right now that's up to the Democrats.

[Fark user image 425x196]

Really?
You think the Democrats are extreme Right currently?

They are much farther to the Left than in the 70s on all of the social issues and they are at least as far to the Left on the economic ones. The only thing they have slipped to the Right on is Unions, but since a huge chunk of Union voters are Trumpers I have been caring less and less about them.


For certain progressives (and I say this as a pretty dammed progressive progressive myself), anything other than a complete teardown of the corporate system is centrism.

Personally, I think an all-payer healthcare model with price controls (all providers must charge the same amount to all parties) would be just grand. Add in a public option and let any private insurers who want to stick around do so. Or, if you want single payer, there are options that aren't M4A.

But a lot of folks harp on M4A and only M4A.
 
2020-08-31 11:04:40 AM  

misanthropicsob: Geotpf: misanthropicsob: [Fark user image 425x196]

[Citation Needed]

RTFA.


I saw nothing mentioned about the overall left right balance in the county-which, on social issues (like gay rights or legal pot) at the very least, has moved in the opposite direction than your graphic indicates.
 
2020-08-31 11:04:46 AM  

PirateKing: SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.

The answer is to abolish political parties as the non-constitutional mess they are.


Difficulty: The 1st Amendment forbids the government from stopping the people from assembling peaceably.  De facto parties, factions, voting blocs or whatever else you want to call them will always exist.
 
2020-08-31 11:05:24 AM  

NuclearPenguins: misanthropicsob: I'm not surprised to find the usual suspects defending the Democratic Party for being complicit in a homophobic trashing of a young progressive. Personally, I think Morse should sue the shiat out of the College Democrats and the MA Democratic Party for libel.

More so, the Democratic Party has long "claimed" they are even handed and never have an influence on the elections. That's since been proven to be a joke. The DCCC, much like the MA Democratic Party, regularly releases oppo research on progressive candidates, helps fund conservative candidates (even in districts that are reliably liberal) and always goes against the liberal party.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the DCCC was also involved with this "scandal" as it regularly participates in such kneecapping behaviors. If the Democrats would just let things happen naturally, they'd still be somewhat conservative but they wouldn't also be corrupt as f*ck while doing it.

I guess such is the outsized influence of lobbyists. It's a good thing that the Democratic presidential nominee surrounds himself with them, otherwise they would be hobbling his campaign as well.

When are you emigrating? You're obviously doing nothing to help, so when are you leaving?


Speaking of Republican-like behavior, it doesn't get much more Republican than telling someone saying things you don't like to leave America.
 
2020-08-31 11:05:29 AM  

Vansthing: Seemed pretty spot on based on the article.


It's a primary election.  They're from the same party.  That's the whole point of the article.

The post is BSAB.  They aren't even close to the same farking concept.

jfc

wood for brains.
 
2020-08-31 11:06:51 AM  

Geotpf: misanthropicsob: Geotpf: misanthropicsob: [Fark user image 425x196]

[Citation Needed]

RTFA.

I saw nothing mentioned about the overall left right balance in the county-which, on social issues (like gay rights or legal pot) at the very least, has moved in the opposite direction than your graphic indicates.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-31 11:07:11 AM  

misanthropicsob: I'm not surprised to find the usual suspects defending the Democratic Party for being complicit in a homophobic trashing of a young progressive.


What thread are you reading?
 
2020-08-31 11:07:53 AM  

The Drawing Board: NuclearPenguins: misanthropicsob: I'm not surprised to find the usual suspects defending the Democratic Party for being complicit in a homophobic trashing of a young progressive. Personally, I think Morse should sue the shiat out of the College Democrats and the MA Democratic Party for libel.

More so, the Democratic Party has long "claimed" they are even handed and never have an influence on the elections. That's since been proven to be a joke. The DCCC, much like the MA Democratic Party, regularly releases oppo research on progressive candidates, helps fund conservative candidates (even in districts that are reliably liberal) and always goes against the liberal party.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the DCCC was also involved with this "scandal" as it regularly participates in such kneecapping behaviors. If the Democrats would just let things happen naturally, they'd still be somewhat conservative but they wouldn't also be corrupt as f*ck while doing it.

I guess such is the outsized influence of lobbyists. It's a good thing that the Democratic presidential nominee surrounds himself with them, otherwise they would be hobbling his campaign as well.

When are you emigrating? You're obviously doing nothing to help, so when are you leaving?

Speaking of Republican-like behavior, it doesn't get much more Republican than telling someone saying things you don't like to leave America.


I'm sure that poster I was replying to will get over it. Or just continue to complain a lot and yet do nothing to try and improve things.
 
2020-08-31 11:07:53 AM  

Persnickety: PirateKing: SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.

The answer is to abolish political parties as the non-constitutional mess they are.

Difficulty: The 1st Amendment forbids the government from stopping the people from assembling peaceably.  De facto parties, factions, voting blocs or whatever else you want to call them will always exist.


We are well past the need for a party split to occur... it used to happen regularly in America's history to combat entrenchment and disenfranchisement.

The issue now that we are left with just 2 political parties is that they have gamed the system so that only they by default appear on the ballots and only they get a podium at the debates.

Seriously, in die-hard historical republican territory which is the county I live in, voter services did everything they could to get me to join either party instead of having to produce an independent petition to get on the ballot.  Government itself is working against any new party forming.
 
2020-08-31 11:07:55 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: misanthropicsob: I'm not surprised to find the usual suspects defending the Democratic Party for being complicit in a homophobic trashing of a young progressive.

What thread are you reading?


Yours.
 
2020-08-31 11:08:41 AM  

Dafatone: For certain progressives (and I say this as a pretty dammed progressive progressive myself), anything other than a complete teardown of the corporate system is centrism.

Personally, I think an all-payer healthcare model with price controls (all providers must charge the same amount to all parties) would be just grand. Add in a public option and let any private insurers who want to stick around do so. Or, if you want single payer, there are options that aren't M4A.

But a lot of folks harp on M4A and only M4A.


Centrists never solve issues, they just propose unworkable schemes to be debated endlessly so the corporations that donate to Neal don't have to give proper care at a reasonable price.  See above.
 
2020-08-31 11:09:06 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: misanthropicsob: I'm not surprised to find the usual suspects defending the Democratic Party for being complicit in a homophobic trashing of a young progressive.

What thread are you reading?


The bot misfired
 
2020-08-31 11:09:26 AM  

dwrash: Persnickety: PirateKing: SomeAmerican: If parties can't control who runs in their name, they end up with people like Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio, Steve King, Kris Kobach, etc.

But if parties do try to control who runs in their name, they end up stagnating, because once you are in the in crowd you are in for life.

I'm not sure what the right answer is.  In fact I'm not sure if there is a right answer to be found at all.

The answer is to abolish political parties as the non-constitutional mess they are.

Difficulty: The 1st Amendment forbids the government from stopping the people from assembling peaceably.  De facto parties, factions, voting blocs or whatever else you want to call them will always exist.

We are well past the need for a party split to occur... it used to happen regularly in America's history to combat entrenchment and disenfranchisement.

The issue now that we are left with just 2 political parties is that they have gamed the system so that only they by default appear on the ballots and only they get a podium at the debates.

Seriously, in die-hard historical republican territory which is the county I live in, voter services did everything they could to get me to join either party instead of having to produce an independent petition to get on the ballot.  Government itself is working against any new party forming.


lol. Going to bring your BSABism here to infect this thread too? Haven't you taken enough abuse from your betters already today?
 
2020-08-31 11:10:26 AM  
Those Young Democrats involved in the smear campaign are utter little shiats.  Smearing someone's name in hope of getting an internship.

Can't wait for them to be endorsed by the DCCC in ten years.
 
2020-08-31 11:10:51 AM  

misanthropicsob: madgonad: Really?
You think the Democrats are extreme Right currently?

Yes.


So you think that they are anti-regulation of any kind, against taxes on the wealthy, think there needs to be more Jesus in government, against any form of equality for women and minorities, think anyone not 100% heterosexual is mentally ill, want to do away with the social safety net, and want as much money on the military as possible.


Ты работаешь на путина?
 
2020-08-31 11:11:33 AM  

misanthropicsob: Soup4Bonnie: misanthropicsob: I'm not surprised to find the usual suspects defending the Democratic Party for being complicit in a homophobic trashing of a young progressive.



What thread are you reading?


Yours.


Fark user imageView Full Size

 
2020-08-31 11:12:15 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: leeksfromchichis: [Fark user image 425x293]

I have no idea why this is getting so may smart votes since it's not even on topic.  It's not a Both Sides Are Bad article.

Also, just for one stupid tiny little example where that idea is complete bullshiat but looks real cutesy in a tweet-

Which party has been going to bat to keep pre-existing conditions covered for people while the other side has not only tried to eliminate that and replace it with NOTHING, but give away a few trillion dollars to the richest farking people on the planet while they do so?

Oh, just thought of an other one-  Which party is trying to kick out DACA recipients as fast as the courts will allow them and which is opposed?

Yeah.

That's what I thought.   Shove your image.


I don't know, maybe the party that had total control of Congress and the Senate for two years and passed a slightly modified 1993 Republican Healthcare bill that was, originally, intended to be a compromise to Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton's Universal Healthcare plan, and is basically a requirement for all Americans to give money to private insurance companies for healthcare and still comes with co-pays and deductibles. It would of had a Public Insurance Option for people to be able to go to the government for lower cost insurance, competing with private industries, but the DNC decided to placate the Centrists like Joe Lieberman and we got no public option and alot of allowances of Republicans putting in poison pill amendments to crash the plan when the Republicans got control back (which they are doing now).

Centrist Democrats are the poison pill in the Democratic party, demanding total control claiming they will defeat Republicans, while they are not fighting the Republicans, only continuously following Republicans to the right in order to lure in a small amount of Republicans who feel their side has gone "too far" while completely ignoring and/or chastising the Progressives of the Democratic party.
 
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