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(London Evening Standard)   Much like the refugees stuck out on the seas, Bansky-funded migrant rescue boat now stranded in Mediterranean   (standard.co.uk) divider line
    More: Followup, Mediterranean Sea, Boat, Death, Banksy, Watercraft, Lifeboat, vessel's account, Sea  
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2393 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 29 Aug 2020 at 11:15 AM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-29 11:19:45 AM  
Participatory art is taken to a new level?

Seems derivative of this prior work with a cool story.
 
2020-08-29 11:21:09 AM  
OK that took me a second. Nobody is trying to ban the skies, but subby sure is dylsexic!
 
2020-08-29 11:21:36 AM  
Bansky!

Is there a brand the Chinese won't rip off?
 
2020-08-29 11:23:07 AM  
The vessel was bought with the proceeds of some of Banksy's works and is captained by a professional crew with a "flat hierarchy and a vegan diet".

How's that working out?
 
2020-08-29 11:23:29 AM  
The EU policy is not to help. The Greek policy is to push boats away.  Sorry Banksy, you're experiencing the real deal now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentis​f​ree/2020/aug/27/greece-migration-europ​e-athens-refugees
 
2020-08-29 11:28:56 AM  
He has blood on his hands. How many must die to appease his desire for attention?

You don't get to just put a boat in the water, fill it beyond capacity, putting the lives of the crew and everyone you "saved" in danger, and then complain that nobody will save them from the danger you created.

He's on course to become a mass murderer and should be held accountable.
 
2020-08-29 11:30:29 AM  

gar1013: He has blood on his hands. How many must die to appease his desire for attention?

You don't get to just put a boat in the water, fill it beyond capacity, putting the lives of the crew and everyone you "saved" in danger, and then complain that nobody will save them from the danger you created.

He's on course to become a mass murderer and should be held accountable.


Sounds like you're just jealous he's getting people killed and you're not.
 
2020-08-29 11:32:14 AM  

big pig peaches: The vessel was bought with the proceeds of some of Banksy's works and is captained by a professional crew with a "flat hierarchy and a vegan diet".

How's that working out?


A "professional crew" can mean a lot of things.

In this case, it clearly doesn't mean "professionals with years of experience in rescue ops", which it probably should have.
 
2020-08-29 11:32:37 AM  

gar1013: He has blood on his hands. How many must die to appease his desire for attention?

You don't get to just put a boat in the water, fill it beyond capacity, putting the lives of the crew and everyone you "saved" in danger, and then complain that nobody will save them from the danger you created.

He's on course to become a mass murderer and should be held accountable.


Your orange master could just let em dock in California with no precautions
Worked out fine last time
 
2020-08-29 11:35:44 AM  
Maybe try sending the call in Arabic . That might help .
 
2020-08-29 11:37:24 AM  

mr_fulano: The EU policy is not to help. The Greek policy is to push boats away.  Sorry Banksy, you're experiencing the real deal now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisf​ree/2020/aug/27/greece-migration-europ​e-athens-refugees


Banksy is highlighting and bringing attention to the real deal.  I'm sure he's fully aware of the reality of the situation.
 
2020-08-29 11:41:32 AM  
The vessel was bought with the proceeds of some of Banksy's works and is captained by a professional crew with a "flat hierarchy and a vegan diet".

I have to ask - WTF does a vegan diet have to do with sea rescue operations?
 
2020-08-29 11:43:50 AM  
Why is the ship flying a diamond day shape that means it is towing something?
 
2020-08-29 11:47:23 AM  
TFA says, besides the overcrowding, they have a liferaft tied alongside. Not up on my Colregs, but that might be considered "vessel in tow."
 
2020-08-29 11:49:21 AM  

SpaceyCat: The vessel was bought with the proceeds of some of Banksy's works and is captained by a professional crew with a "flat hierarchy and a vegan diet".

I have to ask - WTF does a vegan diet have to do with sea rescue operations?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-29 11:49:28 AM  
I don't have any fundamental right to relocate to Greenland if they don't want to accept me. It sucks for people who didn't win the birth lottery to wind up in a wealthy nation but mass economic migration imperils the cause of actually taking in refugees. It's a simple fact that even if all of Western Europe, the United States, and Canada wished to harbor the entire worlds population of those living in poor countries they wouldn't have the resources to do so. There is only so much unskilled labor a country can absorb and find work for. Money and resources spent trying to help people illegally migrate to countries that don't want them would be better invested in the countries people are fleeing from. The only long term solution for economic migration is to adress the factors that are pressuring people to try and migrate.

I have no Ill will towards the migrants. They are doing exactly what almost any one of us would do in their place to try and improve their lives. When migration happens at reasonable rates I think it is good for everyone. I don't have a positive view towards the people who think they are 'helping' by encouraging more people to undertake a dangerous trip to places they are unwelcome, and I don't think they are even pretending they want to help offer aid once the migrants reach Europe, they don't intend to house them, teach them the local language, help them find work, etc. They just want to participate in the fun and Instagram friendly bit where they sail up on a boat to rescue people before dumping them to become someone else's problem.

In the long term if they actually wanted to help they would be working on improving the programs that help migrants resettle in their new homes and integrate into society.
 
2020-08-29 11:51:39 AM  
Yeah, there's very little overlap in the Venn diagram of good artists and competent people.
 
2020-08-29 11:52:06 AM  

dammit just give me a login: TFA says, besides the overcrowding, they have a liferaft tied alongside. Not up on my Colregs, but that might be considered "vessel in tow."


Nevermind that. The pics aren't the ship in current situation. One clearly shows it underway. So I got no answer.
We did have something similar that was a radar reflector for our fiberglass boat. I wouldn't think a steel ship of that size would require something like that.
 
2020-08-29 11:56:39 AM  

dammit just give me a login: dammit just give me a login: TFA says, besides the overcrowding, they have a liferaft tied alongside. Not up on my Colregs, but that might be considered "vessel in tow."

Nevermind that. The pics aren't the ship in current situation. One clearly shows it underway. So I got no answer.
We did have something similar that was a radar reflector for our fiberglass boat. I wouldn't think a steel ship of that size would require something like that.


Yeah and a pic shows the day shape while moored so who knows.....this is probably another item to speculate on the "professional crew"
 
2020-08-29 12:03:34 PM  

bthom37: gar1013: He has blood on his hands. How many must die to appease his desire for attention?

You don't get to just put a boat in the water, fill it beyond capacity, putting the lives of the crew and everyone you "saved" in danger, and then complain that nobody will save them from the danger you created.

He's on course to become a mass murderer and should be held accountable.

Sounds like you're just jealous he's getting people killed and you're not.


I let my car idle on cold and hot days to get the interior to a comfortable temperature, so you clearly don't know who you're dealing with.
 
2020-08-29 12:06:36 PM  

TomDooley: mr_fulano: The EU policy is not to help. The Greek policy is to push boats away.  Sorry Banksy, you're experiencing the real deal now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisf​ree/2020/aug/27/greece-migration-europ​e-athens-refugees

Banksy is highlighting and bringing attention to the real deal.  I'm sure he's fully aware of the reality of the situation.


So he's endangering people to make a point?
 
2020-08-29 12:06:41 PM  
Wait, so a fancy paint job doesn't get you special treatment? That's odd
 
2020-08-29 12:07:45 PM  

SpaceyCat: The vessel was bought with the proceeds of some of Banksy's works and is captained by a professional crew with a "flat hierarchy and a vegan diet".

I have to ask - WTF does a vegan diet have to do with sea rescue operations?


Maybe they hope people will jump overboard after being sick of hearing about it.
 
2020-08-29 12:11:41 PM  

electricjebus: Yeah, there's very little overlap in the Venn diagram of good artists and competent people.


I can think of one...which then makes me think of this clip.

I cannot overstate how NSFW the language is.

Bad Santa - Leonardo DaVinci
Youtube tT1XYfHwSKs
 
2020-08-29 12:21:13 PM  

SpaceyCat: The vessel was bought with the proceeds of some of Banksy's works and is captained by a professional crew with a "flat hierarchy and a vegan diet".

I have to ask - WTF does a vegan diet have to do with sea rescue operations?


No matter the circumstances, vegans have to let everyone know they're vegans even if those are their last words. Also, wouldn't a "professional crew" know not to overload their ship?
 
2020-08-29 12:37:35 PM  

gar1013: He has blood on his hands. How many must die to appease his desire for attention?

You don't get to just put a boat in the water, fill it beyond capacity, putting the lives of the crew and everyone you "saved" in danger, and then complain that nobody will save them from the danger you created.

He's on course to become a mass murderer and should be held accountable.


Yeah i mean, you rightfully render assistance, but in a way that doesn't jeopardize others unnecessarily.

You threw a whole bunch of people on a boat because you had no idea of what you are doing, and probably did a disservice to them vs leaving them in the water.
 
2020-08-29 1:03:00 PM  

mr_fulano: The EU policy is not to help. The Greek policy is to push boats away.  Sorry Banksy, you're experiencing the real deal now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisf​ree/2020/aug/27/greece-migration-europ​e-athens-refugees


Is letting children drown better or worse than putting them in cages? Seems like the EU are acting like those shiathole countries fark is always on about.
 
2020-08-29 1:15:11 PM  
No one could have known a graffiti vandal would know nothing about overloading a boat.
 
2020-08-29 1:21:23 PM  
"The project aims to help fill a void left by European authorities, who the organisers say are "leaving desperate people to drift helplessly at sea". "

Oh, the

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-29 1:25:58 PM  

LineNoise: gar1013: He has blood on his hands. How many must die to appease his desire for attention?

You don't get to just put a boat in the water, fill it beyond capacity, putting the lives of the crew and everyone you "saved" in danger, and then complain that nobody will save them from the danger you created.

He's on course to become a mass murderer and should be held accountable.

Yeah i mean, you rightfully render assistance, but in a way that doesn't jeopardize others unnecessarily.

You threw a whole bunch of people on a boat because you had no idea of what you are doing, and probably did a disservice to them vs leaving them in the water.


A bunch of people in individual boats could die...but some could live.

Put everyone on one boat? You increase the odds of everyone dying once you overload the boat.
 
2020-08-29 1:33:47 PM  

SpaceyCat: The vessel was bought with the proceeds of some of Banksy's works and is captained by a professional crew with a "flat hierarchy and a vegan diet".

I have to ask - WTF does a vegan diet have to do with sea rescue operations?


Unless they have on-board or have had prior, careful consultation with a dietician, I'll guess that it factors into their arriving at this particular situation through inadequate problem solving ability caused by general malnutrition.

I also find their claim we "cannot safely move because of an overcrowded deck" to be ingenuous.  No, they can putter or troll slowly to port just as safely as they can sit out there adrift.  Also *they* are the ones who caused their deck to become overcrowded.

The truth is: they know their entry to port would be rejected / illegal and they want to turn the problem over to a government through negative publicity.  Not a bad strategy, really, but as I said - ingenuous.
 
2020-08-29 1:35:06 PM  
Just another liberal begging for a pat on the back while killing people in the process.
 
2020-08-29 1:41:43 PM  

QFarker: No one could have known a graffiti vandal would know nothing about overloading a boat.


[in Sept 2019] the British street artist first made contact with Pia Klemp, an experienced captain of a number NGO boats.


She worked for the Sea Shepard org, who even Greenpeace has opposed, from 2011 to 2017.  She's the one who overloaded the boat.
 
2020-08-29 1:45:05 PM  
Some things should be stopped at the borders.  People with intelligence get this.
 
2020-08-29 2:04:44 PM  

barneyrubble: Just another liberal begging for a pat on the back while killing people in the process.


I have to admit I don't fully understand people who are out doing things like this.  In fact I'm kind of torn.

I have what's probably a pretty common level of human survival instinct that is strongest for my immediate family and friends and for those within the moment's proximity (i.e. a stranger in distress nearby right now).  Much further and the urge to help becomes more theoretical, much less hands-on.  E.g. I give money to charities that I think do good humanitarian work efficiently.  I've directly volunteered for Habitat for Humanity, but in a very close-to-home way.

When it comes to things like ocean-going illegal immigration, that's where my humanitarianism is stretched thin and becomes conflicted.  On a personal level I'm rooting for the immigrant.  It takes a powerful mixture of guts, desperation and even ignorance to attempt that kind of life journey.  But with the wide-angle, less personal view I'm reminded that there are 7.6 billion of us on this planet and that is a scary number.  Predictions decades ago said Earth could not support half that many, but technological advances in food production have allowed it to happen.

So back to what "another liberal" might be begging for.  In general I'd be pleased to see "world peace" and the human population living in relative comfort.  The cynic in me wonders if those things are actually antithetical to human behavior, but I still think they are ideals worth striving for.

But as to what motivates a specific, "liberal" individual to do what these Greenpeace rejects are doing?  Fark if I know.  Could be wanting fame, could be wanting to nudge political change... could be insane for all I know.
 
2020-08-29 2:11:24 PM  

SansNeural: QFarker: No one could have known a graffiti vandal would know nothing about overloading a boat.


[in Sept 2019] the British street artist first made contact with Pia Klemp, an experienced captain of a number NGO boats.

She worked for the Sea Shepard org, who even Greenpeace has opposed, from 2011 to 2017.  She's the one who overloaded the boat.


My first thought was the crew was probably Sea Shepard nincompoops who found a new home.

Seems that is exactly what it is.
 
2020-08-29 2:13:53 PM  

bthom37: A "professional crew" can mean a lot of things.


This. In some circumstances if you get paid you are technically a professional. That's no guarantee of verifiable competency, which is required by most insurance underwriters for vessels (inshore or at sea).

Tieing this venture back to Banksy & associates may end up with them having to pay for another mission to deal with this apparent misadventure. It's not as if Banksy et al haven't been freely associated with lots of money.

In light of the lack of action by state naval or coastal authority vessels what's the Banksy rescue plan? They did have a contingency, right? I hope so... for the migrants sake at least. A professional crew should understand the risks.

TL, DR; don't fark about offshore if you don't understand the sea, like gravity or the moon, is a harsh mistress. Plan accordingly.
 
2020-08-29 2:15:43 PM  

gar1013: LineNoise: gar1013: He has blood on his hands. How many must die to appease his desire for attention?

You don't get to just put a boat in the water, fill it beyond capacity, putting the lives of the crew and everyone you "saved" in danger, and then complain that nobody will save them from the danger you created.

He's on course to become a mass murderer and should be held accountable.

Yeah i mean, you rightfully render assistance, but in a way that doesn't jeopardize others unnecessarily.

You threw a whole bunch of people on a boat because you had no idea of what you are doing, and probably did a disservice to them vs leaving them in the water.

A bunch of people in individual boats could die...but some could live.

Put everyone on one boat? You increase the odds of everyone dying once you overload the boat.


This is a perfect example of pitfalls of righteous ideology without the resources, structure, and plan to back it up. Your plan to help ultimately backfires and at best becomes ineffective, inefficient, and a resource sink. At the worst, it causes irreparable harm and catastrophic damage. There is a sizeable amount of the population that does not understand this principle and when somebody challenges their idea or tries to engage in a discussion on how to achieve said altruistic outcome, is met with fierce opposition, name calling, and absolutely nothing of substance.

As sad as this is, it is illustrative of what happens when you are fueled only by good intentions. Sometimes, the cruel reality of it is that you cannot save everyone. Attempting to do so, might place everyone in jeopardy. In this specific case, they should have gone into this knowing their limits to operate safely. They should have had a plan in place should they encounter an emergency situation in which they needed to rescue migrants in distress. What this means is that they would have an intentional reserve capacity for an emergency. Beyond that, the plan would be to call in more assistance, seek additional resources should the need exceed your current operations, or escort these vessels to safe harbor.

None of this happened. You have a bunch of do-gooders driven by their ego and operating on this false guise of divine inspiration to hop on board and put people at risk. This is no different than the people here in SE Texas who were operating a generator in a confined space thereby inadvertently killing the very people they were trying to take in because of carbon monoxide poisoning. Nobody is judging you and against you for wanting to do good, it is your lack of plan or poor planning that is harmful that we are judging. Politics wants to make it out to be that this criticism is because you are against helping people which is a completely false message. Here we are now however where this sort of belief has become commonplace. And people wonder why we are so polarized. Well, it is because you do not allow for dissent or criticism. How can you possibly have a functional system when you provide such rigidity in your politics?
 
2020-08-29 2:17:58 PM  

Daer21: mr_fulano: The EU policy is not to help. The Greek policy is to push boats away.  Sorry Banksy, you're experiencing the real deal now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisf​ree/2020/aug/27/greece-migration-europ​e-athens-refugees

Is letting children drown better or worse than putting them in cages? Seems like the EU are acting like those shiathole countries fark is always on about.


If those ships weren't basically on call for the people smugglers, way fewer people would risk the crossing, and fewer people would die.

Besides, if it was just about saving lives, and not about getting them into Europe, why not drop them off in back in Africa?
 
2020-08-29 2:19:41 PM  

SansNeural: QFarker: No one could have known a graffiti vandal would know nothing about overloading a boat.


[in Sept 2019] the British street artist first made contact with Pia Klemp, an experienced captain of a number NGO boats.

She worked for the Sea Shepard org, who even Greenpeace has opposed, from 2011 to 2017.  She's the one who overloaded the boat.


Who bought the boat?  Who hired the captain?  Did he not buy this boat with the explicit goal to pick up people at sea?
 
2020-08-29 2:23:59 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: They should have had a plan in place should they encounter an emergency situation


I think they had a plan and it's playing out now.  Publicly point to nearby governments and say "look what they're doing!  We're in trouble and they're the bad guys!".

It's just not a very good plan and it holds their "precious cargo" hostage to ideology.  Sure, their hostages came more or less willingly, but they probably didn't expect to be pawns.
 
2020-08-29 2:25:51 PM  
For interest here's links to find the current / recent locations of the SeaWatch 4 & Louise Michel;


Sea Watch 4

Louise Michel


It also looks as if there are several other German flagged vessels called Sea Watch in the Med, some of which are likely to be organisational sister ships... I think these folks can probably 'self rescue' just fine & are trying to get media & general public 'eyes on'.

Not unsurprising in the least.


Ref;  https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/​h​ome/centerx:9.6/centery:34.3/zoom:7
 
2020-08-29 2:26:03 PM  
The great news is that Banksy won't be weeping at the front of a theatrical star studded press conference.  Or maybe he will be, but we won't know it.

Woe is me, woe is my plan, woe is the state of the universe, send BIE/PIE, send monies, I'm selling my next turd to fund something, halp!



/always get the vehicle you're purchasing inspected BEFORE buying it
 
2020-08-29 2:26:32 PM  

QFarker: SansNeural: QFarker: No one could have known a graffiti vandal would know nothing about overloading a boat.


[in Sept 2019] the British street artist first made contact with Pia Klemp, an experienced captain of a number NGO boats.

She worked for the Sea Shepard org, who even Greenpeace has opposed, from 2011 to 2017.  She's the one who overloaded the boat.

Who bought the boat?  Who hired the captain?  Did he not buy this boat with the explicit goal to pick up people at sea?


No disagreement there, just providing more info.  Banksy is sure gonna take heat by association, and deservedly so.  Pithy social messages in paint is pretty cool.  This, on the other hand...
 
2020-08-29 2:29:15 PM  

Aardvark Inc.: For interest here's links to find the current / recent locations of the SeaWatch 4 & Louise Michel;


Sea Watch 4

Louise Michel


It also looks as if there are several other German flagged vessels called Sea Watch in the Med, some of which are likely to be organisational sister ships... I think these folks can probably 'self rescue' just fine & are trying to get media & general public 'eyes on'.

Not unsurprising in the least.

Ref;  https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/h​ome/centerx:9.6/centery:34.3/zoom:7


Supports my growing suspicion that it's an ingenuous stunt.
 
2020-08-29 2:38:19 PM  

maxandgrinch: Participatory art is taken to a new level?

Seems derivative of this prior work with a cool story.


vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size


"New York's most historic fire boat is making me dizzy"
 
2020-08-29 2:40:31 PM  

SansNeural: Supports my growing suspicion that it's an ingenuous stunt.



A cunning stunt, even.
 
2020-08-29 2:46:15 PM  
Did they do all this and not have a plan, and also a backup plan, as to what country they were going to take them to? Maybe also a plan in case they were overloaded?
 
2020-08-29 2:59:15 PM  

SansNeural: the money is in the banana stand: They should have had a plan in place should they encounter an emergency situation

I think they had a plan and it's playing out now.  Publicly point to nearby governments and say "look what they're doing!  We're in trouble and they're the bad guys!".

It's just not a very good plan and it holds their "precious cargo" hostage to ideology.  Sure, their hostages came more or less willingly, but they probably didn't expect to be pawns.


Sort of like Hamas hiding in hospitals shooting rockets then blaming Israel for the ensuing collateral damage?
 
2020-08-29 3:02:42 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: SansNeural: the money is in the banana stand: They should have had a plan in place should they encounter an emergency situation

I think they had a plan and it's playing out now.  Publicly point to nearby governments and say "look what they're doing!  We're in trouble and they're the bad guys!".

It's just not a very good plan and it holds their "precious cargo" hostage to ideology.  Sure, their hostages came more or less willingly, but they probably didn't expect to be pawns.

Sort of like Hamas hiding in hospitals shooting rockets then blaming Israel for the ensuing collateral damage?


Yeah.  Pretty much examples of why I said earlier that "world peace" may be antithetical to human behavior.
 
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