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(South China Morning Post)   Thanks 2020, now China is trying to start WW III like North Korea by firing two medium-range missiles into the South China Sea as a 'warning to US'   (scmp.com) divider line
    More: Scary, United States, South China Sea, Chinese military fires, People's Republic of China, aircraft-carrier killer' missile, Chinese language, South China Morning Post, Qing Dynasty  
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962 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Aug 2020 at 6:38 PM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-26 8:46:06 PM  

zbtop: The last SR-71 flew in 1999, with the overwhelmingly vast majority of their operational flight hours completed by the late 80's, they flew very little in the 90's after being temporarily reactivated. For an aircraft that underwent as much stress as it did, I suspect that keeping them flying through into 2020 would not have been feasible.


(disclaimer: I have no idea if the following is true):  I'm assuming we already have shiat waaay better than the SR-71 flying right now.

/ again, no clue if true
 
2020-08-26 8:52:50 PM  

zbtop: The last SR-71 flew in 1999,


Not true, these fly as well. But maybe that is why they changes them from black to red...
(broke my heart)

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2020-08-26 9:16:38 PM  

Nick Nostril: zbtop: The last SR-71 flew in 1999, with the overwhelmingly vast majority of their operational flight hours completed by the late 80's, they flew very little in the 90's after being temporarily reactivated. For an aircraft that underwent as much stress as it did, I suspect that keeping them flying through into 2020 would not have been feasible.

(disclaimer: I have no idea if the following is true):  I'm assuming we already have shiat waaay better than the SR-71 flying right now.

/ again, no clue if true


In terms of an aircraft that can fly that fast and that high? We don't actually. Whether we need it or not, with dramatically expanded satellite networks, long-endurance high altitude drones like Globalhawk, etc, is perhaps another question, but there aren't any aircraft in service that can match or exceed the performance of the SR-71.

It's kinda like how we don't have any spacecraft that can go to the Moon anymore either. We could make something way better than Apollo, but no requirement has been presented and the old vehicles have long since been retired and ceased production.
 
2020-08-26 9:31:04 PM  

rhodabear: How dangerous is the South China Sea? Is Cthulu down there


No, I'm in Virginia.
 
2020-08-27 2:08:16 AM  

zbtop: Marcus Aurelius: They're mad we flew a drone over their war games.  Hope we collected some data, at least.

This is it. It's sabre rattling. It's the kind of stuff the US and Russia did for decades and continue to do.

China is...a wee bit sensitive about things in the Pacific. In some respects they have a right to be, they were absolutely abused by foreign nations entering by sea from for a hundred years with absolutely horrific results, and they don't want that to happen again. Currently they face the largest and most powerful navy in history that basically has their coastline surrounded in its entirety in every direction (they go North towards Korea, there's the US, they go North East, there's Japan and the US, they go East, there's Okinawa and Taiwan and the US, they go South there's the Phillipines and the US). Fair enough, I'd be unsettled by that as well in their shoes. Russia/USSR had a similar mindset during the Cold War, having faced multiple disastrous land invasions from the west over the span of a little over a century. From such a perspective, China's belligerence is understandable. They know they cannot defeat the US Navy, but want to show that they can dish out enough hurt to make people think twice.

In other respects, China is also trying to do to others what was done to them now that they're more or less back on their feet, and bully their neighbors and claim economic hegemony and extensive valuable resources, but don't like being called on it (though, neither does the US).

Ultimately however, nobody really wants a shooting war, and it's in nobody's real interests, but everyone wants to look tough and ready for one either way. Where it will end up? Who knows, but I don't think making it out like China is trying to start WW3 here is really accurate in any way.


China decided it wanted ww3 when it decided to commit genocide. I feel like are ignoring that fact. Genocide is a legitimate reason to go tinto war
 
2020-08-27 3:11:56 AM  

Warlordtrooper: zbtop: Marcus Aurelius: They're mad we flew a drone over their war games.  Hope we collected some data, at least.

This is it. It's sabre rattling. It's the kind of stuff the US and Russia did for decades and continue to do.

China is...a wee bit sensitive about things in the Pacific. In some respects they have a right to be, they were absolutely abused by foreign nations entering by sea from for a hundred years with absolutely horrific results, and they don't want that to happen again. Currently they face the largest and most powerful navy in history that basically has their coastline surrounded in its entirety in every direction (they go North towards Korea, there's the US, they go North East, there's Japan and the US, they go East, there's Okinawa and Taiwan and the US, they go South there's the Phillipines and the US). Fair enough, I'd be unsettled by that as well in their shoes. Russia/USSR had a similar mindset during the Cold War, having faced multiple disastrous land invasions from the west over the span of a little over a century. From such a perspective, China's belligerence is understandable. They know they cannot defeat the US Navy, but want to show that they can dish out enough hurt to make people think twice.

In other respects, China is also trying to do to others what was done to them now that they're more or less back on their feet, and bully their neighbors and claim economic hegemony and extensive valuable resources, but don't like being called on it (though, neither does the US).

Ultimately however, nobody really wants a shooting war, and it's in nobody's real interests, but everyone wants to look tough and ready for one either way. Where it will end up? Who knows, but I don't think making it out like China is trying to start WW3 here is really accurate in any way.

China decided it wanted ww3 when it decided to commit genocide. I feel like are ignoring that fact. Genocide is a legitimate reason to go tinto war


I'm assuming you're referring to the Uighurs? I absolutely won't defend what's happening to them, they're absolutely being oppressed and subjected to mass arrest and political repression, it's horseshiat and absolutely should not be happening in the modern world, but they're also not actively exterminated Auschwitz or Srebnica style. More importantly, I don't believe for a second that 99% of people deploying that argument are actually interested in the plight of a largely muslim central asian turkic people as anything other than something to wave about "china bad herpaderp" (and forget about the moment a conversation shifts to a topic other than China), particularly when there are situations that are actual open direct mass-killing genocides that nobody is remotely talking about going to war over (e.g. the Rohingya, the Darfuri, the Nuer, etc) where the military situation would be trivial by comparison for the US. I don't see anyone volunteering to join the military to go fight the Chinese for the sake of the Uighurs or making it a central political plank and petitioning their representatives over. Likewise, when the US imprisons at least as many people as China does if not more, and a larger proportion of our total population (particularly of ethnic minorities) than any other nation on the planet, and for longer average prison terms than almost any other nation, and in no small part for similarly bullshiat reasons (hurr durr they sold some weed), it's a wee bit disingenuous, and is a large part of *why* China has been able to get away with it by turning around and pointing to the domestic situation in the US to the rest of the world.
 
2020-08-27 8:57:30 AM  

flucto: Can't give in on the South China Sea thing. Bad things happen over the next 100 years if we do.


Here is the thing, China is going to win.  The US can fight a war, but we can't win in peace time.  Our government is set up to reward those to kiss ass and bow down to the wealthy with power.  Money has no loyalty and no patriotism.  The same assholes who sold out American manufacturing to Asia are now leading the backlash.  They know we are not going to bring manufacturing back to the US until they succeed in basically making the US a third world country.  That's the end goal.  A country with a wealthy upper middle class to consume and a large poor lower class to work for little money with less protections for health and safety and the ability to shift cost for pollution to the public.

The last best chance we had was probably the TPP.  Once that was killed, we ceded Asia to China. We can't roll in there and enforce our whims without support of the countries in the area.  Who is on our side now?  South Korea? Japan?  They know we are not a reliable to good faith partner.  Why would they work with the US?  It just a matter of time until we turn on them if they do well economically.  China is going to do what's in its best interest, they are much more predictable.  That's a pretty big reason wot work with China over the US.  We have a pretty bad record of adventurism in south east Asia.  Who would want to join us against China, if the price is a proxy war in their country and then the US walking away when it gets too difficult or expensive?

Even if Biden wins, the electorate is still primed for a right wing nut job to take over the like a rabid dog attack our allies.
 
2020-08-27 9:59:20 AM  

Warlordtrooper: zbtop: Marcus Aurelius: They're mad we flew a drone over their war games.  Hope we collected some data, at least.

This is it. It's sabre rattling. It's the kind of stuff the US and Russia did for decades and continue to do.

China is...a wee bit sensitive about things in the Pacific. In some respects they have a right to be, they were absolutely abused by foreign nations entering by sea from for a hundred years with absolutely horrific results, and they don't want that to happen again. Currently they face the largest and most powerful navy in history that basically has their coastline surrounded in its entirety in every direction (they go North towards Korea, there's the US, they go North East, there's Japan and the US, they go East, there's Okinawa and Taiwan and the US, they go South there's the Phillipines and the US). Fair enough, I'd be unsettled by that as well in their shoes. Russia/USSR had a similar mindset during the Cold War, having faced multiple disastrous land invasions from the west over the span of a little over a century. From such a perspective, China's belligerence is understandable. They know they cannot defeat the US Navy, but want to show that they can dish out enough hurt to make people think twice.

In other respects, China is also trying to do to others what was done to them now that they're more or less back on their feet, and bully their neighbors and claim economic hegemony and extensive valuable resources, but don't like being called on it (though, neither does the US).

Ultimately however, nobody really wants a shooting war, and it's in nobody's real interests, but everyone wants to look tough and ready for one either way. Where it will end up? Who knows, but I don't think making it out like China is trying to start WW3 here is really accurate in any way.

China decided it wanted ww3 when it decided to commit genocide. I feel like are ignoring that fact. Genocide is a legitimate reason to go tinto war


Only when it's against someone else's people. Countries can genocide their own people all they want.
 
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