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(Rolling Stone)   How a religious group could soon bring abortion rights to the Supreme Court. Difficulty: The Satanic Temple   (rollingstone.com) divider line
    More: Hero, Supreme Court of the United States, United States, overarching themes of the Supreme Court, Religion, Satanic Temple, United States Congress, religious freedom, American law  
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2851 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Aug 2020 at 7:19 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-26 3:39:36 AM  
It's only a matter of time before the Supreme Court answers the question whether they actually believe in religious liberty for all.

Spoiler: they don't
 
2020-08-26 6:52:14 AM  
Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.
 
2020-08-26 7:26:16 AM  

puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.


And Scientology.

That's the problem with these carve-outs for "religious freedom" - they put the government in the position of having to determine which religions and religious practices are endorsed and which are not, which is exactly what the First Amendment is meant to avoid.
 
2020-08-26 7:26:24 AM  
The Satanic Temple.

Not the heroes we need, but the heroes we deserve...
 
2020-08-26 7:27:11 AM  
I can like Jesus and Satan both, okay?

/still don't like Trump.
 
2020-08-26 7:32:04 AM  

HeartBurnKid: puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.

And Scientology.

That's the problem with these carve-outs for "religious freedom" - they put the government in the position of having to determine which religions and religious practices are endorsed and which are not, which is exactly what the First Amendment is meant to avoid.


This.

Religion should not enjoy any privileges or exemptions of any sort.

Sh*t, if a person is an open neo-Nazi, I can kick him out of my business for being an asshole, but if he's just smart enough to claim Hitler as a god or the second coming of Jesus or something crap, oh, no, now I'm committing religious discrimination.
 
2020-08-26 7:34:54 AM  
Hail Satan's minions
 
2020-08-26 7:38:03 AM  
Religion And religious ideation of all stripes should be stamped out as soon as possible. Not by violence but by ridicule and relentless education.
 
2020-08-26 7:38:17 AM  

HeartBurnKid: puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.

And Scientology.

That's the problem with these carve-outs for "religious freedom" - they put the government in the position of having to determine which religions and religious practices are endorsed and which are not, which is exactly what the First Amendment is meant to avoid.


It's not as though abortion is a big deal in the Bible. So the court wasn't concerned about legitimacy when they ruled for Hobby Lobby. Which is why this is fantastic.
 
2020-08-26 7:39:09 AM  
Now that 57% of Republicans think that America leading the developed world in Covid-19 deaths is "acceptable," they do not get to continue calling themselves "Pro-Life" ever again.

It's never been about life, and always been about controlling women.
 
2020-08-26 7:39:14 AM  
A group that helps people instead of hoovering up as much money as possible.
That's how you can tell they're not a real religion.
 
2020-08-26 7:39:36 AM  
Hmm, seems this Satanic Temple is worth looking into. Perhaps a tithe is in order.
 
2020-08-26 7:40:06 AM  

puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.


I think it may be a question of sincerity of belief. Similar to the Pastafarians, the belief is more ironic, and grounded in libertarian ideas more than spiritual. That said, I don't care if someone declares their religion as Jedi or none-of-the-above.

No one should dictate the beliefs of others unless there is demonstrable harm to self or others from those beliefs. Also, no beliefs should be immune to criticism or ridicule. Or endorsed by the state over others.
 
2020-08-26 7:45:40 AM  

PerpetualPeristalsis: Religion And religious ideation of all stripes should be stamped out as soon as possible. Not by violence but by ridicule and relentless education.


Difficulty: Democracy, in a nation where the majority are religious
 
2020-08-26 7:47:00 AM  
Let's ask god what he thinks
Motörhead - (Don't Need) Religion
Youtube wVyPP66C4P8
 
2020-08-26 7:47:04 AM  

Catlenfell: A group that helps people instead of hoovering up as much money as possible.
That's how you can tell they're not a real religion.


It's perfectly fine that Hoover up as much of their follower's money, but I object to them Hoovering up mine.
 
2020-08-26 7:48:13 AM  

smileyphase: puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.

I think it may be a question of sincerity of belief. Similar to the Pastafarians, the belief is more ironic, and grounded in libertarian ideas more than spiritual. That said, I don't care if someone declares their religion as Jedi or none-of-the-above.

No one should dictate the beliefs of others unless there is demonstrable harm to self or others from those beliefs. Also, no beliefs should be immune to criticism or ridicule. Or endorsed by the state over others.


Fair, I s'pose. But how does one gauge sincerity of belief in, for instance, the Christian population, who in practice openly reject the most basic tenets of their teacher ("though shalt love they neighbour as thyself") but selectively fasten onto all that drivel from the Old Testament (Leviticus and its ilk)?
 
2020-08-26 7:48:53 AM  

smileyphase: I think it may be a question of sincerity of belief. Similar to the Pastafarians, the belief is more ironic, and grounded in libertarian ideas more than spiritual.


The Satanic Temple is quite sincere. Oh, some of their legal challenges are more in the "put the shoe on the other foot" type thing, but the Temple is very much a humanistic set of beliefs that are quite sincerely held.

(Also true of the Church of Satan, but those dudes- and yes, it's almost entirely dudes- are wacky)
 
2020-08-26 7:49:15 AM  

HeartBurnKid: puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.

And Scientology.

That's the problem with these carve-outs for "religious freedom" - they put the government in the position of having to determine which religions and religious practices are endorsed and which are not, which is exactly what the First Amendment is meant to avoid.


And the rest.

Beliefs in imaginary things should not trump laws.
 
2020-08-26 7:50:01 AM  

Shaggy_C: PerpetualPeristalsis: Religion And religious ideation of all stripes should be stamped out as soon as possible. Not by violence but by ridicule and relentless education.

Difficulty: Democracy, in a nation where the majority are religious


It truly is a remarkable thing that so many still remain superstitious this far down the road.
 
2020-08-26 7:50:37 AM  

Shaggy_C: PerpetualPeristalsis: Religion And religious ideation of all stripes should be stamped out as soon as possible. Not by violence but by ridicule and relentless education.

Difficulty: Democracy, in a nation where the majority are religious


Monotheistic religion is contradictory to democracy. Democracy was created by pagans. Monotheism has traditionally supported kings.
 
2020-08-26 7:50:45 AM  

Purple_Urkle: I can like Jesus and Satan both, okay?

/still don't like Trump.


Satan is so misunderstood.  He gave us the knowledge of good and evil, before that we were ignorant animals wondering around his edenic garden.
 
2020-08-26 7:50:53 AM  

Stoker: Hmm, seems this Satanic Temple is worth looking into. Perhaps a tithe is in order.


I'll take their 7 Tenets over the 10 Commandments any day:

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
 
2020-08-26 7:50:56 AM  
Hmm...maybe it's time to change denominations.
 
2020-08-26 7:51:07 AM  

puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.


They're not in practice, but they are on paper in order to obtain the same freedoms the religious groups push for...in order to undermine the exemptions entirely. Which makes sense because there really isn't a specific rubric for actual measurements of faith. I mean, you can easily claim to be a member of a specific faith, but there isn't an available rating system for adherence to the belief system to challenge your claim legally. This becomes especially tenable when you consider the gargantuan number of people who claim to belong to a particular faith, yet self-apply the label of "non-practicing".

I mean, even Charles Manson in prison studied Scientology and after a few weeks proclaimed himself to be Theta Cleared. Who the hell is gonna challenge him on that? How could you claim that Manson wasn't devoid of thetans any more than you can claim you're a better Christian that curries more favor with God?

Which if you can follow that conundrum, then you can clearly see how this whole Satanic Temple thing works. Because that which makes you can also break you. If religious groups overstep their boundaries, then the Satanic Temple jumps in to join the fun. Since most churches are there to fight Satanic imagery, then most back off for fear of drawing too much attention to their "enemies". Especially when it criticizes the entire churches by exposing their ludicrous requests. Thus you have a nice chilling effect.

Just as how we needed religion to act as a quasi moral compass of sorts to keep idiots in line in the past, it seems as though these people are now doing the same thing in the courts and legal system of our land. It'll serve it's purpose for a while until we no longer need it.
 
2020-08-26 7:51:36 AM  
"cannot be exempt from generally applicable and neutral state laws just because their religious beliefs disagree with the law."

Oh, this is rich. Just f***ing classic.

That Missouri state GOP official should chant that last part over and over again in front of a mirror until he believes it applies to evangelicals
 
2020-08-26 7:54:03 AM  

PerpetualPeristalsis: Religion And religious ideation of all stripes should be stamped out as soon as possible. Not by violence but by ridicule and relentless education.


I am a believer, but I do not follow any organised religion (if pushed then solo witch, if shoved, shaman.)  I just assume that existence, rather than non-existence, means something.  Now I am not sure what that something is, but it is something.
 
2020-08-26 7:55:34 AM  
Satan has always been the good guy
 
2020-08-26 7:56:30 AM  
I've heard of this case. The State of Missouri vs. Rosemary's Baby.
 
2020-08-26 7:56:37 AM  

Langdon_777: I just assume that existence, rather than non-existence, means something.


But I don't believe anything exists.
 
2020-08-26 7:57:41 AM  
FTFA: The Satanic Temple has made these claims in multiple state and federal court cases on behalf of members who were pregnant and sought an abortion at the time the lawsuits were filed. So far, it has been unsuccessful. It lost in 2019 before the Missouri Supreme Court, which ruled that the challenged Missouri abortion law does not require any patient to actually have an ultrasound (though one must be offered) or read the state pamphlet (though it must be provided).

It's refreshing when a state supreme court says "our laws don't discriminate against religious minorities because they're equally ridiculous and ineffective for everyone."  Of course, if a state mandated that obstetricians offer patients a state pamphlet that explains that abortion services are available to all pregnant women, you can be confident that the Christian right would collectively let forth a barbaric yawp.
 
2020-08-26 8:09:14 AM  
The entire premise of so-called "religous liberty" is going to have to get called out: The Establishment Clause is either real, or it isn't - the state makes laws for all citizens or none. Hobby Lobby was the thin edge of a large wedge.
 
2020-08-26 8:16:18 AM  

RasIanI: The entire premise of so-called "religous liberty" is going to have to get called out: The Establishment Clause is either real, or it isn't - the state makes laws for all citizens or none. Hobby Lobby was the thin edge of a large wedge.


I gotta say: your nation is a truly bizarre one. It is one of the few which explicitly prohibits the intermingling of statecraft and religion, and yet repeatedly tries and often succeeds in doing just that.
 
2020-08-26 8:18:23 AM  

Marcos P: Satan has always been the good guy



Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-26 8:25:46 AM  
tl;dr excerpt FTA: There's reason to doubt whether the Court will apply these principles neutrally
 
2020-08-26 8:29:02 AM  

Reverend J: Hmm...maybe it's time to change denominations.


Difficulty: Satan does not actually want anyone to worship him.
 
2020-08-26 8:29:34 AM  

Moooooo K: The Satanic Temple.

Not the heroes we need, but the heroes we deserve...


I have to say, I have not disagreed with any public splash they have made in the last decade.  They are always on the side of justice, pointing out religious hypocrisy wherever they find it.    And the icing on the cake is that they probably wouldn't willingly take Donald Trump as a member, despite his unwitting resemblance to the Anti-Christ.. I wish I could donate to their cause without it coming back to bite me in the ass.
 
2020-08-26 8:30:12 AM  
Langdon_777:

Satan is so misunderstood.  He gave us the knowledge of good and evil, before that we were ignorant animals wondering around his edenic garden.

And what exactly were we wondering about (presumably while we were wandering)?

/ pet peeve
// gets fed way too often
/// here, peevey peevey
 
2020-08-26 8:30:46 AM  

Stoker: Marcos P: Satan has always been the good guy


[Fark user image image 446x456]


When "Satan" is introduced in The Bible - I think it's in the Book of Job - he is God's agent, on earth, scoping out men who's faith may be waning, and challenging them. But he's totally part of God's Outreach Network, at this juncture.
 
2020-08-26 8:33:36 AM  

Marcos P: Satan has always been the good guy


Like the example in the Bible where God is bragging and makes a bet with Satan that he can get his followers to do anything at all, then torments one of them until he is ready to kill his own kid. Satan has to call the bet off before God actually makes the guy kill his own kid. Just sayin.
 
2020-08-26 8:38:02 AM  

puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.


WHAT? We (the Temple) totally are! The IRS agrees. Who says we're not?

Oh, that's right, viciously evil hypocrites like the LDS. And, more importantly, the rancid Roman Catholics who sit on the Supreme Court.
 
2020-08-26 8:40:32 AM  

Moooooo K: The Satanic Temple.

Not the heroes we need, but the heroes we deserve...


I'm still hoping the Church of the Fonz comes together.
Family guy Church of The Fonz
Youtube gCDoUfHmUGI

Let us Aaaaaay.
 
2020-08-26 8:49:34 AM  
That's cute, but This is America and what matters isn't religion. What matters is power and money. The religious right is a political movement that gets its way because it reliably delivers voters and campaign contributions. The Satanic Temple can't deliver as many voters or dollars, so it won't get its way.
 
2020-08-26 8:50:08 AM  

RasIanI: Stoker: Marcos P: Satan has always been the good guy


[Fark user image image 446x456]

When "Satan" is introduced in The Bible - I think it's in the Book of Job - he is God's agent, on earth, scoping out men who's faith may be waning, and challenging them. But he's totally part of God's Outreach Network, at this juncture.


Is Satan ever mentioned by name in the bible?
 
2020-08-26 8:50:41 AM  
Hero tag? Bringing abortion rights to the Supreme Court would not be a good thing.

With each of Trump's SC appointments, commentators said their opinion on abortion didn't matter because the issue wouldn't be considered by the court. (this was from professionals paid for their opinion) That's like saying gun control isn't an issue because guns need bullets.

Well, every gun shop also sells bullets. And the radical right has been passing anti-abortion laws left and right knowing they're currently unenforceable but with the plan that one will eventually get to the SC.
 
2020-08-26 8:51:07 AM  
Satan truly loves you.
 
2020-08-26 8:51:16 AM  

puffy999: Curious how these guys aren't a religion but LDS is.


Maybe because the Satanic Temple has less members than the Westboro Baptist "Church".

In all seriousness, despite some valid points raised, they come across as either a parody or a troll, not as an actual religion that anyone actually practices.
 
2020-08-26 8:53:52 AM  

hodgemann: Satan truly loves you.


Nope. She divorced me.
 
2020-08-26 8:55:08 AM  
From the article:

As the church's [Satanic Temple's] reproductive rights spokeswoman puts it, "No Christian would tolerate a law that insists state counseling is necessary before someone can be baptized..."

If we lived in a sane society, this would actually be a thing.

"Oh, so you believe in a magic sky wizard that created the universe in seven days, spies on you constantly, judges your actions after you die, and the rightness of said actions are laid out in a contradictory book mostly written in the Bronze Age, with a codicil tacked on during the Roman Empire. Right. Let's see, we have an opening with one of our counselors, Dr. Schaeffer, next Tuesday at 10:30. Can you make that?"
 
2020-08-26 8:59:58 AM  
Dopelord - Hail Satan
Youtube SGW4MgV_bok
 
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