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(The New York Times)   Universities now getting annoyed that returning students are doing what students do best; being completely stupid and partying   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Papua New Guinea, World Health Organization, Universal health care, Health care, Public health, Government debt, Government bond, Government  
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1260 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2020 at 1:00 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-21 12:02:25 PM  
Universities are so dependent on tuition money and outside grants that they must do whatever it takes to keep that spice flowing. They get less and less of state appropriations every year. It's been a problem for decades. They'll let the students sign up and take their tuition money. Warn them to follow guidelines and then shut down classes after the tuition refund deadlines. They can't function without tuition money, and they know students won't take responsibility because they never have for this sort of thing.
 
2020-08-21 12:30:18 PM  
"Your bra-bomb better work Nerdlinger!"

Take THAT Bitterman!
Youtube dbgvS_qkDlE
 
2020-08-21 12:41:07 PM  
Just wait until they find out how much of their staff and faculty are being irresponsible, too.
 
2020-08-21 12:49:46 PM  
Rampant sex in the dorms and bushes.
 
2020-08-21 1:02:11 PM  
"College students walk around acting so smart.  You don't see patients in hospitals bragging about their health."

70's TV comedian
 
2020-08-21 1:06:18 PM  

Somacandra: Universities are so dependent on tuition money and outside grants that they must do whatever it takes to keep that spice flowing. They get less and less of state appropriations every year. It's been a problem for decades. They'll let the students sign up and take their tuition money. Warn them to follow guidelines and then shut down classes after the tuition refund deadlines. They can't function without tuition money, and they know students won't take responsibility because they never have for this sort of thing.


This is the root cause right here.
 
2020-08-21 1:09:43 PM  
I keep saying this: Unless you actually arrest people violating the rules, a very large number of people will do just that.
 
2020-08-21 1:10:24 PM  
Yesterday, I saw carloads of kids unloading their dorm stuff, A few masks here and there, definitely no social distancing.  Yes, this is all going to be just fine.  The college has already lost millions in refunds for housing, meal plans, tech fees, etc.  Will this pattern repeat itself once half the campus tests positive?

The university I'm teaching for this semester has the right idea: totally online via Zoom.
 
2020-08-21 1:10:31 PM  
Article conspicuously lacking any reporting of actual parties.
 
2020-08-21 1:12:44 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-21 1:13:59 PM  
No shiat...
 
2020-08-21 1:14:48 PM  
I work at a university but this is crazy letting young adults come back like this. I don't care how much they need the money and how nice of a job it is for me. Can't be making the plague worse just because of the money. Especially when you can do it all online practically.

Don't get me wrong. I love my job and it's been a great 10+ years but this is crazy. I'd rather lose it and see the university shut down then a national pandemic get 10 or more times worse and more dead people in the news including me potentially.
 
2020-08-21 1:15:29 PM  
No one could have seen this coming.

🙄
 
2020-08-21 1:16:28 PM  
I'm certain that if I were still on campus I would have contracted coronavirus on the first weekend.
 
2020-08-21 1:16:33 PM  

Nimbull: I work at a university but this is crazy letting young adults come back like this. I don't care how much they need the money and how nice of a job it is for me. Can't be making the plague worse just because of the money. Especially when you can do it all online practically.

Don't get me wrong. I love my job and it's been a great 10+ years but this is crazy. I'd rather lose it and see the university shut down then a national pandemic get 10 or more times worse and more dead people in the news including me potentially.


Sending you a virtual, socially distanced hug if you want it.

Stay safe, Farker.
 
2020-08-21 1:16:50 PM  
So "the college experience" has been marketed for the past two decades as a time to go wild and avoid responsibility. Very little there about actual beneficial learning.

How can anyone be surprised?
 
2020-08-21 1:18:10 PM  
I'm sure they'll be annoyed by several lawsuits in a few months time.
 
2020-08-21 1:19:20 PM  

Somacandra: Universities are so dependent on tuition money and outside grants that they must do whatever it takes to keep that spice flowing. They get less and less of state appropriations every year. It's been a problem for decades. They'll let the students sign up and take their tuition money. Warn them to follow guidelines and then shut down classes after the tuition refund deadlines. They can't function without tuition money, and they know students won't take responsibility because they never have for this sort of thing.


it's much more than tuition.  that on-campus housing money is also huge.  many universities are making it mandatory to live on campus up to three years now.  then they've jumped on the fee bandwagon whether or not  you do anything remotely related to fee being collected.  Don't sell short the in the town landlords getting all those leases signed over the summer before classes were moved to remote only.  I'm sure there are plenty of university faculty/staff who are also landlords.
 
2020-08-21 1:26:23 PM  

Geotpf: I keep saying this: Unless you actually arrest people violating the rules, a very large number of people will do just that.


"Rule" breaking isn't an arrestable offence.
 
2020-08-21 1:27:32 PM  
Hey Universities, maybe you should have thought through what 18 - 25 year olds do on college campuses.

Undergrad: drunken sex parties
Graduate: refined, cultured partner swap parties after Merlot.
Doc: exhausted random hookups with a candidate from another discipline in the 15 minute weekly break from research/writing.

Every school I've been to knows this, you're not social distancing anyone at a university.

media.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-21 1:28:55 PM  
It's going to put a damper on fraternity initiations, when they have to walk around holding each other's dicks and whatnot.
 
2020-08-21 1:31:49 PM  
weddingsinger:

There's a reason people don't leave after getting their PhD, it's because they know only acidemia.

When was the last time you had a PhD in early childhood education actually running a preschool?
 
2020-08-21 1:31:57 PM  
At Florida State, it didn't take long to find 2 dozen infections among students moving into residential halls. So they're moving those to a "Covid Dorm" for isolation. The 2020 equivalent of a leper colony, I suppose.
 
2020-08-21 1:33:52 PM  
Jake Havechek:

A daisy chain it is then.
 
2020-08-21 1:35:54 PM  
Refer underage drinkers to the local authorities for prosecution.

That'll fix it.
 
2020-08-21 1:38:15 PM  

Tom Marvolo Bombadil: Article conspicuously lacking any reporting of actual parties.


I know- you'd think they'd let me know where the raging keggers are.  After this first week of classes I really need a drink.
 
2020-08-21 1:38:56 PM  
I am calling BS in the money thing.  Colleges have like $100m endowments.  Just tap those for this year.
 
2020-08-21 1:39:37 PM  

fark'emfeed'emfish: Geotpf: I keep saying this: Unless you actually arrest people violating the rules, a very large number of people will do just that.

"Rule" breaking isn't an arrestable offence.


It is an expellable one though.  In theory our campus agreement includes that if students reoffend.  Hasn't been tested though, so we'll see how it goes
 
2020-08-21 1:40:58 PM  

Jz4p: So "the college experience" has been marketed for the past two decades as a time to go wild and avoid responsibility. Very little there about actual beneficial learning.

How can anyone be surprised?


I smarted your comment but...two decades??
Animal House came out in 1978!!
 
2020-08-21 1:49:22 PM  

Nimbull: I work at a university but this is crazy letting young adults come back like this. I don't care how much they need the money and how nice of a job it is for me. Can't be making the plague worse just because of the money. Especially when you can do it all online practically.

Don't get me wrong. I love my job and it's been a great 10+ years but this is crazy. I'd rather lose it and see the university shut down then a national pandemic get 10 or more times worse and more dead people in the news including me potentially.


This is a generational divide. Kids either assume they won't get it, or don't care if they do. They're young, healthy, and worst of all entitled to have fun.

I took the virus seriously only to have my daughter bring death to my door. Luckily it didn't have a big impact on me, but you can bet I'd change my will if my own family was the cause of my death. Leave my money to a bum or a dog shelter.
 
2020-08-21 1:50:39 PM  
I'm confused - so the plan is to yell at them to not party, and then throw out the ones that do...? Do they seriously think they can somehow suddenly whip millions of 18-22 year olds into compliance when that's never been the case in all of human history...?
 
2020-08-21 1:52:00 PM  

fark'emfeed'emfish: Geotpf: I keep saying this: Unless you actually arrest people violating the rules, a very large number of people will do just that.

"Rule" breaking isn't an arrestable offence.


Fine, I'll have to spell it out for you.

"Unless you actually arrest people violating the temporary rules set about by the local health authority regarding controlling a pandemic, a very large number of people will violate them."

They aren't "laws" per se, because they are temporary in nature due to a health emergency, but they usually do have legal penalties attached to them, in theory.  In practice, those penalties are rarely applied.

Because they aren't "laws", you have to refer to them as "rules" (of the local health authority).

/that was annoying to have to actually spell out
 
2020-08-21 1:52:05 PM  

AuralArgument: When was the last time you had a PhD in early childhood education actually running a preschool?


Does running a preschool offer enough money to entice somebody who spent eight years and a lot of money getting their education?

No?

There's your problem.
 
2020-08-21 1:57:46 PM  

Resident Muslim: Jz4p: So "the college experience" has been marketed for the past two decades as a time to go wild and avoid responsibility. Very little there about actual beneficial learning.

How can anyone be surprised?

I smarted your comment but...two decades??
Animal House came out in 1978!!


I was being conservative about when the focus on education dropped off to almost nothing in popular media.  Watch a show in the 90's, and you'd hear phrases like "first generation college student" or "you need to go to college for your future." Now, the common phrase is something like "there's a time and a place for that, and it's college."
 
2020-08-21 1:59:09 PM  

Somacandra: Universities are so dependent on tuition money and outside grants that they must do whatever it takes to keep that spice flowing.


Smaller universities, perhaps, but the larger ones are sitting on massive endowments.

At the end of fiscal year 2016, the 120 institutions with the largest endowments accounted for $443 billion, or about three-fourths of the national total.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display​.​asp?id=73
 
2020-08-21 2:05:29 PM  
A good friend of mine works as a consultant for higher education; often brought in to help solve problems and give guidance to universities etc. He's been asked by a number of schools to come in and rubber-stamp their reopening policies and has refused each time. Every single one operated under the assumption that college students will come to campus (often for the first time away from home) and just follow orders to stay in their rooms essentially for months whenever they're not in classes, and he's like, that is just not going to happen, and if your plan depends on them doing that, it's a shiatty plan.

One of the things he told me once was that when administrators ask for advice on almost anything involving restrictions on students, he walks into the conversation with two assumptions: no matter what you tell them, college students are going to drink and they're going to fark. If any idea an administrator has, about COVID or otherwise, depends on students not doing those things, then he tells them to rethink their plan. Usually they don't like to hear that, but it's reality.

Any campus reopening "plan" that will only work if every student is an isolated hermit is doomed to fail.
 
2020-08-21 2:09:08 PM  

sleze: I am calling BS in the money thing.  Colleges have like $100m endowments.  Just tap those for this year.


Endowments aren't general purpose funds, they're gifts given with strings attached, often along the lines of "don't spend it, spend income it generates" so that the endowment lasts, and often with a specified purpose, like paying for a visiting poet to teach and write, or a scholarship for a promising golf caddy each year. Some endowments offer greater flexibility, but legally schools can't just liquidate their endowments to pay for operating expenses.
 
2020-08-21 2:10:04 PM  

Geotpf: I keep saying this: Unless you actually arrest people violating the rules, a very large number of people will do just that.


And ESPECIALLY college freshmen.
 
2020-08-21 2:13:48 PM  

G. Tarrant: A good friend of mine works as a consultant for higher education; often brought in to help solve problems and give guidance to universities etc. He's been asked by a number of schools to come in and rubber-stamp their reopening policies and has refused each time. Every single one operated under the assumption that college students will come to campus (often for the first time away from home) and just follow orders to stay in their rooms essentially for months whenever they're not in classes, and he's like, that is just not going to happen, and if your plan depends on them doing that, it's a shiatty plan.

One of the things he told me once was that when administrators ask for advice on almost anything involving restrictions on students, he walks into the conversation with two assumptions: no matter what you tell them, college students are going to drink and they're going to fark. If any idea an administrator has, about COVID or otherwise, depends on students not doing those things, then he tells them to rethink their plan. Usually they don't like to hear that, but it's reality.

Any campus reopening "plan" that will only work if every student is an isolated hermit is doomed to fail.


This.  Be honest with yourselves - if you were back in college and that hot person you have been trying to get with was going to be at a "forbidden" party, would you stay isolated in your dorm?  Maybe if you had a health condition.  But if you were like every other healthy college kid who thinks they are invincible, you would go.  And if you say you wouldn't go you are either a unique saint or a liar.

As an adult with children, I am VERY strict with my adherence to masks and social distancing.  Not because I think any of us will get terribly ill from it but because I don't want to kill anyone else.  I can't say that my 20 year old self would be as empathetic.
 
2020-08-21 2:15:03 PM  

T Baggins: sleze: I am calling BS in the money thing.  Colleges have like $100m endowments.  Just tap those for this year.

Endowments aren't general purpose funds, they're gifts given with strings attached, often along the lines of "don't spend it, spend income it generates" so that the endowment lasts, and often with a specified purpose, like paying for a visiting poet to teach and write, or a scholarship for a promising golf caddy each year. Some endowments offer greater flexibility, but legally schools can't just liquidate their endowments to pay for operating expenses.


I didn't know that.

thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-21 2:22:07 PM  

Jake Havechek: Rampant sex in the dorms and bushes.


my college experiences were bush free.
 
2020-08-21 2:22:21 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: fark'emfeed'emfish: Geotpf: I keep saying this: Unless you actually arrest people violating the rules, a very large number of people will do just that.

"Rule" breaking isn't an arrestable offence.

It is an expellable one though.  In theory our campus agreement includes that if students reoffend.  Hasn't been tested though, so we'll see how it goes


Many state COVID laws authorize significant prison sentences and fines, and some university COVID rules allow expulsion for first offenses for things like hosting unsafe parties, but despite reading of incessant and blatant violations and superspreader events, I haven't heard of those penalties being enacted in the US.

Universities need to broaden expulsion rules to cover anyone attending (not just hosting) unsafe parties, bars, or other crowded events, and actually apply them when infractions are confirmed, if they want to significantly curtail dangerous behavior.
 
2020-08-21 2:22:33 PM  
memegenerator.netView Full Size
 
2020-08-21 3:22:20 PM  
schnee jr was to be off to a campus thousands of miles from the homestead. everyone was looking forward to jr launching into this next part of life. but we were a bit concerned with covid. campus had all sort of precautions in place, including 100% remote classes for the vast majority of students. "why send jr to campus then with all remote"? is a good question, but answered with "important step to launching".

and then campus closed. still paying tuition, but not room and board. it was likely the smart move by campus.

schnee jr's senior year in high school got screwed and now first year at uni.

covid sucks.
 
2020-08-21 3:29:07 PM  
Living in a college town that has shut down its bars leading students to throw porch parties and backyard keggers, I have to wonder if they aren't going about this all wrong. There is little overlap between the visiting students and the year-round residents, and many students won't be going back home to visit their families for a few more weeks. Maybe letting Covid run its course through a younger segregated population hoping for herd immunity makes as much sense as naively thinking they will all stay home and socialize online?
 
2020-08-21 3:53:58 PM  

Resident Muslim: Jz4p: So "the college experience" has been marketed for the past two decades as a time to go wild and avoid responsibility. Very little there about actual beneficial learning.

How can anyone be surprised?

I smarted your comment but...two decades??
Animal House came out in 1978!!


Animal House was set in 1963.

College students have *always* liked to drink and fark.  I have never understood why every generation thinks the kids are somehow wilder and dumber than they were.
 
2020-08-21 4:06:36 PM  

DemonEater: AuralArgument: When was the last time you had a PhD in early childhood education actually running a preschool?

Does running a preschool offer enough money to entice somebody who spent eight years and a lot of money getting their education?

No?

There's your problem.


My ex is a special needs teacher in Georgia and has a doctorate.  The sole reason she got it was for the instant salary increase, which come retirement time will have her 70% of regular pay pension being much higher than without the Ed. D.

She also chose teaching as a profession for the summer vacation, period, and I know a shiatload of teachers choose the profession for that very reason.  It's why I laugh when I hear they're sooooo underpaid.  Add 20% to their salary to compare it to the working stiffs working all 12 months instead of the 9.5 months that non-college teachers do.
 
2020-08-21 4:20:56 PM  

sleze: I am calling BS in the money thing.  Colleges have like $100m endowments.  Just tap those for this year.


Not every university has donors lining up to cover these massive shortfalls. I sure wish mine did. It's tiring wondering if I'll be in the next round of budget layoffs.
 
2020-08-21 4:27:53 PM  

OptionC: Resident Muslim: Jz4p: So "the college experience" has been marketed for the past two decades as a time to go wild and avoid responsibility. Very little there about actual beneficial learning.

How can anyone be surprised?

I smarted your comment but...two decades??
Animal House came out in 1978!!

Animal House was set in 1963.

College students have *always* liked to drink and fark.  I have never understood why every generation thinks the kids are somehow wilder and dumber than they were.


Yeah, I live in a big college town, and there are 19th century accounts of student alcohol problems, and police raids of fraternities during prohibition (1920s-1930s). It's nothing new.

Portrayal of wild partying at universities is spread more through pop culture than university marketing.
 
2020-08-21 4:30:34 PM  

sleze: I am calling BS in the money thing.  Colleges have like $100m endowments.  Just tap those for this year.


Doesn't work like that.  Virtually all of the money in a typical endowment can't be spent because it's specifically allocated by the donor for a given purpose.  For example, Sweet Briar had $84M in its endowment when they closed.  They had $25M of debt, but only 19 million of that 84 could be spent for general purposes and so they couldn't pay their bills.

A number of years back Harvard actually hit a cash crunch- so much of their endowment is tied up in named chairs, buildings, scholarships, etc that they actually had trouble finding money for operating expenses

/And we already are tapping ours because we don't have a choice even though we're in person right now.  It's eating your seed corn
 
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