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(UPI)   Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër? See the løveli lakes... The wøndërful telephøne system... And the hërd immuniti? Mynd you, cørønavirus Kan be pretti nasti   (upi.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Immune system, Finland, Sweden, Infectious disease, Disease, Scandinavia, Infection, United Kingdom  
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3838 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 14 Aug 2020 at 7:31 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-14 4:02:00 AM  
Oh, has Sweden opened up its borders to Americans?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-14 5:48:55 AM  
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1​1​77/0141076820945282

The actual paper is rather bold in making claims that the evidence doesn't really support. The serum tests they cite are from April or May and have varied biases. The linked article has the senior author speculating about the drops inubiannd IgM levels indicating a loss or lack of immunity. That comes close to ignoring the T-cell responses which some data is suggesting is the key with Covid-19.


Experience suggests that severely infected COVID-19 patients acquire antibodies immediately and during early recovery, but antibodies are much less common in only mildly ill or asymptomatic patients.

This means they are likely not immune, and can't prevent the spread of the virus, the study noted. This is central to the concept of herd immunity.


Again, that's quite misleading given what we're learning about successful immune response to Covid-19.

Of course the whole question of what it even means to be immune is up in the air. It seems likely that people who have been infected will have cellular memory in the form of adapted T and B cells that can quickly respond to a fresh inoculation with some covid-19 and halt it's reproduction before one gets sick, and that will probably keep your viral load low enough that you won't be very infectious. But these things aren't necessarily all or none.

It is conceptually possible for someone to have an immunity that would help them fight off a new infection so that they don't get sick but could still in some circumstances spread their nascent infection to others. This would be rare but the point is there's more nuance to this stuff than you get from typical articles.
 
2020-08-14 7:35:11 AM  
Fark's right wingers have assured me that Sweden has had zero covid problems and that their "stay open and let everyone die" strategy was successful.
 
2020-08-14 7:37:08 AM  
A vïrús once bit my sister.
Nø, reallí!
 
2020-08-14 7:38:32 AM  
Shouldn't this have been at the beginning of the article, instead of the end? Just sayin'.

"Only a year or two after the pandemic, however, can experts fairly judge what was done correctly, the authors said."
 
2020-08-14 7:46:05 AM  
So why is the number of people dying there so much lower than ours?!?  Explain THAT, libs!
 
2020-08-14 7:58:58 AM  
You can see when Ikea makes all the parts for the KØFFYN
 
2020-08-14 8:09:39 AM  
Omg! They are victim blaming! But it's sexy because she's a woman. Koi
 
2020-08-14 8:12:19 AM  

neongoats: Fark's right wingers have assured me that Sweden has had zero covid problems and that their "stay open and let everyone die" strategy was successful.


What the hell are you on about?
 
2020-08-14 8:12:41 AM  

camarugala: Omg! They are victim blaming! But it's sexy because she's a woman. Koi


In solidarity, I will comment about this story in the one above this one.
 
2020-08-14 8:13:21 AM  

neongoats: Fark's right wingers have assured me that Sweden has had zero covid problems and that their "stay open and let everyone die" strategy was successful.


Liar.
 
2020-08-14 8:15:15 AM  
On the other hand,

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-14 8:16:40 AM  
Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.
 
2020-08-14 8:17:25 AM  

neongoats: Fark's right wingers have assured me that Sweden has had zero covid problems and that their "stay open and let everyone die" strategy was successful.


Yeah, I've been hearing that from MAGAphiles on Facebook, that Sweden is such a success story - which is hilarious to read while sitting in Norway.
 
2020-08-14 8:18:00 AM  

durbnpoisn: Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.


Go. Away.
 
2020-08-14 8:20:47 AM  
Sweden uses ö, not ø.
 
2020-08-14 8:21:11 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-14 8:23:03 AM  
Achtuuuuualy... Swedish døsn't use ø, that's Danish, prønøunced 'oo' and also means island. Swedish uses å/aa , ä and ö.  Alsø, achtuuuuualy, the famøus pix of the Swedish bikini team løøk like a bunch of American bleach blønd skanks to me. Swedish wømen are way høtter than that.
 
2020-08-14 8:23:37 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]


Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
Real great strategy there.
 
2020-08-14 8:23:42 AM  

NobleHam: Sweden uses ö, not ø.


gøddammit!
 
2020-08-14 8:24:43 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

[Fark user image image 850x773]
[Fark user image image 850x743]Real great strategy there.


Username really checks out
 
2020-08-14 8:24:50 AM  

Trail of BABYMETAL DEATH: NobleHam: Sweden uses ö, not ø.

gøddammit!


I think all the Scandinavian languages should switch to ö and ä - ø and æ are just silly.
 
2020-08-14 8:25:36 AM  
This headline meme needs to die choking on a ventilator.
 
2020-08-14 8:26:00 AM  

CarnySaur: So why is the number of people dying there so much lower than ours?!?  Explain THAT, libs!


Because they aren't as fat as we are.
 
2020-08-14 8:26:01 AM  

DannyBrandt: durbnpoisn: Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.

Go. Away.


Gå. Væk.
 
2020-08-14 8:26:26 AM  

durbnpoisn: Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.


So don't read it?
 
2020-08-14 8:28:58 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: Trail of BABYMETAL DEATH: NobleHam: Sweden uses ö, not ø.

gøddammit!

I think all the Scandinavian languages should switch to ö and ä - ø and æ are just silly.


Swedish is silly. Danish is just horrible, but not cløwnish.  Norsk can be beautiful. I think ø is a newer form of oe, and å used to be aa.
 
2020-08-14 8:29:06 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

[Fark user image image 850x531]


Sure. But there are multiple things you could take away from the graph.

The article is about the lack of herd immunity. One question may be : Why aren't they continuing to have high death rates with no herd immunity and no lockdown? Currently their death count is about the same as Norway and Denmark - a couple a day.

If there's no herd immunity effect and no lockdown, where are the continued deaths?
 
2020-08-14 8:30:24 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: neongoats: Fark's right wingers have assured me that Sweden has had zero covid problems and that their "stay open and let everyone die" strategy was successful.

Liar.


Bzzt wrong.
 
2020-08-14 8:48:00 AM  

the_rhino: durbnpoisn: Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.

So don't read it?


Like I already said.  I didn't.  Because it made my brain hurt.
 
2020-08-14 8:58:36 AM  

durbnpoisn: the_rhino: durbnpoisn: Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.

So don't read it?

Like I already said.  I didn't.  Because it made my brain hurt.


Welcome to Fark, I guess?
 
2020-08-14 9:02:34 AM  

durbnpoisn: Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.


Read It again in a few hours when you sober up.

/and quit day drinking
 
2020-08-14 9:24:38 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-14 9:34:17 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

[Fark user image 850x773]
[Fark user image 850x743]Real great strategy there.


Ask the government actuaries what they think.
 
2020-08-14 9:58:33 AM  

durbnpoisn: Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.


Obviously you're not a gölfer.
 
2020-08-14 10:27:35 AM  

durbnpoisn: Note to subby...

Please don't make headlines like this.  It hurts the brain to have to translate all those characters.

It's amusing.  Funny joke.  But it's too godam irritating to actually read the headline.  I made it about 4 words and started typing this post...

So I don't even know what it says.


Then you're sacked.
 
2020-08-14 10:32:39 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

[Fark user image 850x773]
[Fark user image 850x743]Real great strategy there.


It's also not the "sky is falling" end of the world disease either. Yes, deaths are bad. 5000deaths is a drop in the population bucket. Consider it a down payment on saving the Earth from the destruction of anthropogenic climate change.
 
2020-08-14 10:41:40 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Odin's Other Eye: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

[Fark user image image 850x531]

Sure. But there are multiple things you could take away from the graph.

The article is about the lack of herd immunity. One question may be : Why aren't they continuing to have high death rates with no herd immunity and no lockdown? Currently their death count is about the same as Norway and Denmark - a couple a day.

If there's no herd immunity effect and no lockdown, where are the continued deaths?


Mostly because "no lockdown" is still far from "business as usual", which everyone seem to be missing. Gatherings of more than 50 people are disallowed, all large venues are closed or restrict visitors, social distancing is encouraged everywhere, and since we're a sparsely populated country we're encouraged to do things outdoors. High schools held remote lessons leading up to the summer break. There are a lot of rules regarding retirement homes and such.
I don't think we did a good enough job, especially with protecting the elderly, but we certainly didn't do "nothing".
 
2020-08-14 11:12:32 AM  
Off topic, but the headline made me think of this:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-14 11:23:14 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: Real great strategy there.


That's not fair. Sweden has a much higher population than Norway. Let's compare deaths per million population.

Sweden: 572
Norway:  48

Fantastic strategy there, Sweden.

\ You absolutely killed it!
\\ ummm, phrasing?
 
2020-08-14 11:24:46 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]


Seriously. If this isn't herd immunity, what is? People can fark right off with their stupid opinions. Data is what matters. Sweden successfully navigated their population to the point where enough of them are immune for the R0 level to get deaths down to virtually zero and keep them there. That is the dictionary definition of herd immunity.

It's like people want millions to die so they can say "see I told you so." People actually get pissed off any time an idea against COVID actually works. Any time a medicine or vaccine is released the same people all shiat all over that too. Before anyone has even looked at Russia's vaccine it's already being declared a hoax. WTF is wrong with you all?
 
2020-08-14 11:29:50 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

[Fark user image 850x773]
[Fark user image 850x743]Real great strategy there.


Piss off with cherry picking the one country that had lower numbers. Compare Sweden to any other European country and see how much better it has fared. Britain, Spain, and Italy all had total lockdowns and had more deaths per population. The US completely locked down and still isn't fully reopened and has had almost as many. Within the US the states that locked down the least are among those with the lowest numbers. Japan didn't completely lock down and is ranked 136th in deaths per capita. There is no relationship whatsoever between locking down and total cases or deaths. You were wrong.
 
2020-08-14 11:30:37 AM  

Tommy Moo: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

Seriously. If this isn't herd immunity, what is? People can fark right off with their stupid opinions. Data is what matters. Sweden successfully navigated their population to the point where enough of them are immune for the R0 level to get deaths down to virtually zero and keep them there. That is the dictionary definition of herd immunity.

It's like people want millions to die so they can say "see I told you so." People actually get pissed off any time an idea against COVID actually works. Any time a medicine or vaccine is released the same people all shiat all over that too. Before anyone has even looked at Russia's vaccine it's already being declared a hoax. WTF is wrong with you all?


We have zero herd immunity and are not on lockdown and nobody is dying here. Sweden has had 19 deaths so far in August. We have had 1. Who is doing better?
 
2020-08-14 11:32:43 AM  

Tommy Moo: Odin's Other Eye: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

[Fark user image 850x773]
[Fark user image 850x743]Real great strategy there.

Piss off with cherry picking the one country that had lower numbers.


I am sitting in said country, that's why I picked it. Apples to apples. Sweden is right next door, COVID hit them the same time as us - after Italy and Spain and France, so we knew what was coming - and the two countries picked different strategies. Sweden lost more than 10x as many people per capita.
 
2020-08-14 11:34:36 AM  

Tommy Moo: The US completely locked down and still isn't fully reopened and has had almost as many.


No it didn't. The US locked down partially and reopened in fits and starts, and now it's still losing 1000+ people a day.
 
2020-08-14 11:34:40 AM  
Midsommar was a good movie.

Got nothing.
 
2020-08-14 11:35:57 AM  

Tommy Moo: Compare Sweden to any other European country and see how much better it has fared.


Compare Sweden to the rest of Scandinavia - a more apt comparison, in terms of when community spread started, population density, healthcare, etc. - and you'll see that it's a shiatshow.
 
2020-08-14 11:37:03 AM  

FarkBucket18: Yes, deaths are bad. 5000deaths is a drop in the population bucket. Consider it a down payment on saving the Earth from the destruction of anthropogenic climate change.


Did you say that about 9/11?
 
2020-08-14 11:51:37 AM  

Tommy Moo: Odin's Other Eye: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: On the other hand,

[Fark user image 425x403]

[Fark user image 850x773]
[Fark user image 850x743]Real great strategy there.

Piss off with cherry picking the one country that had lower numbers. Compare Sweden to any other European country and see how much better it has fared. Britain, Spain, and Italy all had total lockdowns and had more deaths per population. The US completely locked down and still isn't fully reopened and has had almost as many. Within the US the states that locked down the least are among those with the lowest numbers. Japan didn't completely lock down and is ranked 136th in deaths per capita. There is no relationship whatsoever between locking down and total cases or deaths. You were wrong.


Uhm, one of the countries right next door to it?   The rest of Scandinavia fared much better, to varying degrees by not doing what Sweden has done.
 
2020-08-14 11:54:32 AM  
Dewey Fidalgo:

Uhm, one of the countries right next door to it?   The rest of Scandinavia fared much better, to varying degrees by not doing what Sweden has done.

And now the folks at work are joking that I need to change my name because it sounds too Swedish and everyone is afraid I am going to infect them.
 
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