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(Newsweek)   Editor's Note: I regret nothing and will continue to dig   (newsweek.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, United States Constitution, United States nationality law, Nationality, areas of constitutional law, Law, Natural born citizen of the United States, Citizenship Clause of the 14th Amendment, Dr. John Eastman  
•       •       •

3295 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Aug 2020 at 11:47 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-13 8:20:34 AM  
Summary of TFA:
You see, we know Birtherism was bad. But this is Birtherism 2.0, which is a totally different racist way to delegitimize a candidate of color.
 
2020-08-13 9:36:51 AM  
It's racist.  Everyone can see it's racist.  So don't even bother.  We did this already.
 
2020-08-13 10:21:18 AM  
...and that's why we publish the same column when old white guys run for POTUS...oh, wait, they don't
 
2020-08-13 11:03:57 AM  
"we cite these cases where citizenship was a non-issue to prove that it is an issue now"

good jorb
 
2020-08-13 11:05:01 AM  
RTFA is useful here.

The problem is this has been brought up before and discussed. It's been found to be such a minor concern that no one has seriously pushed the idea that Cruz or McCain, for instance, are inelgible to run for president. As it's been found to be acceptable several times over, the only question is why it's being brought up again.
 
2020-08-13 11:25:05 AM  
Also of note: the author of the original article ran for California AG and lost to....

Kamala Harris.

You think they might want to have mentioned that
 
2020-08-13 11:51:09 AM  
From the redded thread.

This Editor's Note sounds a lot like the first Editor's Note after the NYTimes publishes Tom Cotton treatise on killing black America...I wonder what happened to that editor?
 
2020-08-13 11:52:02 AM  
Well, at least dig up.
 
2020-08-13 11:55:48 AM  
The Atlantic - "I'm a nurse and teachers should stop whining about COVID19 and get back to work"

Newsweek - Hold my beer
 
2020-08-13 11:57:09 AM  
Too bad for all involved, Harris is running for VICE president, which had no citizenship requirement.
 
2020-08-13 11:58:35 AM  
"It's racist to suggest that Barack Obama was ineligible for the Presidency for not having been born in the US. It is, however, NOT racist to suggest that Kamala Harris - whom no one suggests was born anywhere but Oakland, CA - is ineligible for the Presidency because her parents were not born in the US."

FARKING WHAT
 
2020-08-13 11:59:00 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Too bad for all involved, Harris is running for VICE president, which had no citizenship requirement.


I'm pretty sure it has the exact same requirements as president.
 
2020-08-13 11:59:08 AM  

edmo: RTFA is useful here.

The problem is this has been brought up before and discussed. It's been found to be such a minor concern that no one has seriously pushed the idea that Cruz or McCain, for instance, are inelgible to run for president. As it's been found to be acceptable several times over, the only question is why it's being brought up again.


And even then it's only a rhetorical question, since the answer is blatantly obvious.
 
2020-08-13 12:00:09 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: Also of note: the author of the original article ran for California AG and lost to....

Kamala Harris.

You think they might want to have mentioned that


Newsweak
 
2020-08-13 12:00:10 PM  
The editorial equivalent of "I'm not racist but..."
 
2020-08-13 12:00:47 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Too bad for all involved, Harris is running for VICE president, which had no citizenship requirement.


12th Amendment:

"...no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice President of the United States."

That said, trying to do a birther attack on her is stupid.
 
2020-08-13 12:00:56 PM  
The GOP does not like people of color, unless if it's orange.

There is no hiding the racism from the GOP, Republicans, or their base.
 
2020-08-13 12:01:19 PM  
From the comments section of the article:

Waldenpond
10 hours ago

John Eastman: Clerked for Clarence Thomas - check; Member of the Federalist Society - check; Chairman of the Board of the National Organization for Marriage - check; Regular on the Hugh Hewitt show - check; Unsuccessful candidate for CA AG, defeated by Kamala Harris - check; Led the charge against Obama's EO regarding DACA - check. Nothing suspicious here. I'm old enough to remember when Newsweek was a fairly respected news magazine. What happened?


So, probably a racist.
 
2020-08-13 12:01:23 PM  
I'd like to see a question at dipshiat's next press briefing:

"Mr. President, there are some people pushing a ridiculous idea that Kamala Harris is not a US citizen, which is easily proven to be false. Having pushed a similarly idiotic idea yourself regarding President Obama's citizenship, which made you look like a completely pathetic douchebag, do you have any words of warning for these people?"
 
2020-08-13 12:02:04 PM  
Remember when the hayseeds were floating the idea of amending the Constitution to allow Arnold Schwarzenegger to run for President?
 
2020-08-13 12:02:38 PM  

edmo: RTFA is useful here.

The problem is this has been brought up before and discussed. It's been found to be such a minor concern that no one has seriously pushed the idea that Cruz or McCain, for instance, are inelgible to run for president. As it's been found to be acceptable several times over, the only question is why it's being brought up again.


i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-13 12:03:34 PM  

Outshined_One: Remember when the hayseeds were floating the idea of amending the Constitution to allow Arnold Schwarzenegger to run for President?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-13 12:03:53 PM  
I was born by C-section. That is technically not a natural birth.

Does that invalidate me too?
 
2020-08-13 12:05:13 PM  
We're not racist! We just only bring up these questions when it's a black or brown person on the ticket.
 
2020-08-13 12:07:01 PM  
It's racist. McCain wasn't even born in the US no one even questioned it because he was white.

She was born an American citizen.
 
2020-08-13 12:08:00 PM  
That's right! The original author was merely dispassionately exploring the ramifications of a legitimate Constitutional question, as evinced by the way he similarly wrote about that same question as applied to Republicans, and isn't just a bigoted partisan hack!

Fark user imageView Full Size


...oh.
 
2020-08-13 12:13:47 PM  

Corvus: It's racist. McCain wasn't even born in the US no one even questioned it because he was white.

She was born an American citizen.


They also passed a nonbinding resolution that said McCain was eligible to run for President.
 
2020-08-13 12:14:07 PM  

Snapper Carr: The editorial equivalent of "I'm not racist but..."


pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-13 12:15:53 PM  
Not exactly the same species of birther racism as before, but still related -- this time, grounded in "anchor baby" nonsense.
 
2020-08-13 12:16:14 PM  

imashark: I was born by C-section. That is technically not a natural birth.

Does that invalidate me too?


Yep, you can only be president of Caeserea.
 
2020-08-13 12:17:40 PM  

imashark: I was born by C-section. That is technically not a natural birth.

Does that invalidate me too?


No, but it does mean you can kill Macbeth.
 
2020-08-13 12:17:59 PM  
 Clearly, Harris will be prone to issues involving allegiance to India and Jamaica. Why she may even put those poutine eating Quebecois ahead of you god fearing real Americans. Better not vote for that.
 
2020-08-13 12:19:05 PM  
"questions were raised by the Constitution's Article II, Section 1 "natural born Citizen" requirement for presidential eligibility about both John McCain and Ted Cruz"

No they really weren't other than as a joke. What really happened is that instead of asking questions about their own candidates, conservatives projected their fears and inadequacies onto Obama. So since McCain wasn't born in the continental United States, then Obama was from Kenya.

"So before we so cavalierly accept Senator Harris' eligibility for the office of vice president, we should ask her a few questions about the status of her parents at the time of her birth."

So Dr. John Eastman is a piece of shiat and a racist, and now Newsweek is making crappy excuses for him because they probably asked him to write it as an inflammatory piece to get eyeballs. So fark Newsweek and fark John Eastman, who should be fired from Chapman University and the Claremont Institute, who are now tainted by their employment of this bumbling racist.
 
2020-08-13 12:19:24 PM  
WHAR LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE?!!!
 
2020-08-13 12:21:08 PM  
The group that that racist is Chairman of is racist, I have no idea how much they paid Newsweek to let that editorial get published, but greed and racism go together.  The private uni the racist works at seems to be a safe house for the worse that the right produces - torture is fine by them, and abuse of the system their bread and butter.  Oh sure there are some people of colour there, but they are well compensated for traitorism.
 
2020-08-13 12:21:35 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: imashark: I was born by C-section. That is technically not a natural birth.

Does that invalidate me too?

Yep, you can only be president of Caeserea.


Is that a back closet somewhere in the Vatican?
 
2020-08-13 12:25:23 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: Also of note: the author of the original article ran for California AG and lost to....

Kamala Harris.

You think they might want to have mentioned that


No, under the circumstances, I absolutely see why they didn't.

It's always amusing when news organizations try the "It's not racist because" argument. Well, it's appalling, too, but in an amusing, "Well, there was an attempt" way.
 
2020-08-13 12:26:42 PM  
I blocked Newsweek from my Google feed a few months ago. It seems to have been purchased by Russians.
 
2020-08-13 12:28:19 PM  

A'isha P.: That's right! The original author was merely dispassionately exploring the ramifications of a legitimate Constitutional question, as evinced by the way he similarly wrote about that same question as applied to Republicans, and isn't just a bigoted partisan hack!

[Fark user image 425x696]

...oh.


Nice......Repubs' capacity for hypocrisy knows no bounds.
 
2020-08-13 12:30:32 PM  
 
2020-08-13 12:31:08 PM  

imashark: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: imashark: I was born by C-section. That is technically not a natural birth.

Does that invalidate me too?

Yep, you can only be president of Caeserea.

Is that a back closet somewhere in the Vatican?


It's a rich-people resort town in the north of Israel with lots of Roman-era ruins.

// the only privately-managed municipality in Israel, says wiki
// so you maybe could be President of it, if you greas humus'd the right palms
 
2020-08-13 12:31:46 PM  

Langdon_777: The group that that racist is Chairman of is racist, I have no idea how much they paid Newsweek to let that editorial get published, but greed and racism go together.  The private uni the racist works at seems to be a safe house for the worse that the right produces - torture is fine by them, and abuse of the system their bread and butter.  Oh sure there are some people of colour there, but they are well compensated for traitorism.


Newsweek went bankrupt a while ago and was bought for a dollar by a rightwing nutjob group. They didn't have to be paid anything.
 
2020-08-13 12:32:00 PM  
The issue discussed in these debates, and contested by Dr. Eastman, is whether birthright citizenship (jus soli, birth by soil), as opposed to merely citizenship by parentage (jus sanguinis, that is, citizenship by citizenship of one's parents at time of birth), is textually mandated. Again, scholars can, and do, disagree on this point

What does this have to do with Harris? Both her parents were citizens at the time of her birth on US soil, so none of these arguments apply to her. Both McCain and Cruz were born outside the US. There's MAYBE an argument there. This is straight up birtherism, period.
 
2020-08-13 12:43:22 PM  
What this thread mostly demonstrates is the complete inability of the average Farker to engage in basic reading comprehension. For example:

eKonk: there are some people pushing a ridiculous idea that Kamala Harris is not a US citizen


No one is questioning whether or not she is a Citizen. She clearly is. It's difficult to understand how someone could read the linked article or the original Op-Ed and reach that conclusion. The question is whether or not she is a 'natural born citizen' within the meaning of the term as used in the Constitution as originally understood at the time of the adoption of the relevant terms. As the article notes the same debate was had over both John McCain and Ted Cruz. For what it's worth the question was also raised about both Barry Goldwater and George Romney when they ran for President among others.

Others are raising clearly false arguments that "no one really questioned the eligibility of McCain or Cruz" which are laughably false. Even a quick Google search would reveal that there was a substantive debate as to the eligibility of both those candidates and others. For example:

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/joh​n​-mccains-presidential-eligibility/
https://www.politifact.com/article/20​1​5/mar/26/ted-cruz-born-canada-eligible​-run-president-update/
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/09/05/ar​c​hives/citizen-issue-raised-in-goldwate​r-suit.html

The problem is that the Constitution doesn't define what it means by 'natural born citizen' and there were multiple plausible definitions in common usage at the time. The 14th Amendment doesn't clarify things because it's not clear it was intended to modify the definition of 'natural born citizen' and even if it did the 14th Amendment's 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' is also subject to multiple definitions.

That said, it's exceedingly unlikely that SCOTUS would read the definition so narrowly as to prevent Harris from being eligible to be President or Vice-President. Just as it's unlikely they would have done so for McCain, Cruz, Goldwater, or Romney. But that doesn't mean that there aren't differing positions that have long been considered mainstream in the legal academy that are worth discussing.
 
2020-08-13 12:46:08 PM  

Dr Dreidel: imashark: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: imashark: I was born by C-section. That is technically not a natural birth.

Does that invalidate me too?

Yep, you can only be president of Caeserea.

Is that a back closet somewhere in the Vatican?

It's a rich-people resort town in the north of Israel with lots of Roman-era ruins.

// the only privately-managed municipality in Israel, says wiki
// so you maybe could be President of it, if you greas humus'd the right palms


There are a few hundred Caesarea cities out there.  Just like there are a few hundred Alexandria cities out there.  The Greeks and the Romans were not creative.
 
2020-08-13 12:48:22 PM  

jayphat: The issue discussed in these debates, and contested by Dr. Eastman, is whether birthright citizenship (jus soli, birth by soil), as opposed to merely citizenship by parentage (jus sanguinis, that is, citizenship by citizenship of one's parents at time of birth), is textually mandated. Again, scholars can, and do, disagree on this point

What does this have to do with Harris? Both her parents were citizens at the time of her birth on US soil, so none of these arguments apply to her. Both McCain and Cruz were born outside the US. There's MAYBE an argument there. This is straight up birtherism, period.


The last bit you quoted? The bit about "scholars can, and do, disagree" is utter bullshiat. There is no valid interpretation that rejects jus soli under our Constitution. Any "scholar" arguing otherwise is a disingenuous racist hack.
 
2020-08-13 12:48:41 PM  

Talondel: What this thread mostly demonstrates is the complete inability of the average Farker to engage in basic reading comprehension. For example:

eKonk: there are some people pushing a ridiculous idea that Kamala Harris is not a US citizen

No one is questioning whether or not she is a Citizen. She clearly is. It's difficult to understand how someone could read the linked article or the original Op-Ed and reach that conclusion. The question is whether or not she is a 'natural born citizen' within the meaning of the term as used in the Constitution as originally understood at the time of the adoption of the relevant terms. As the article notes the same debate was had over both John McCain and Ted Cruz. For what it's worth the question was also raised about both Barry Goldwater and George Romney when they ran for President among others.

Others are raising clearly false arguments that "no one really questioned the eligibility of McCain or Cruz" which are laughably false. Even a quick Google search would reveal that there was a substantive debate as to the eligibility of both those candidates and others. For example:

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/john​-mccains-presidential-eligibility/
https://www.politifact.com/article/201​5/mar/26/ted-cruz-born-canada-eligible​-run-president-update/
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/09/05/arc​hives/citizen-issue-raised-in-goldwate​r-suit.html

The problem is that the Constitution doesn't define what it means by 'natural born citizen' and there were multiple plausible definitions in common usage at the time. The 14th Amendment doesn't clarify things because it's not clear it was intended to modify the definition of 'natural born citizen' and even if it did the 14th Amendment's 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' is also subject to multiple definitions.

That said, it's exceedingly unlikely that SCOTUS would read the definition so narrowly as to prevent Harris from being eligible to be President or Vice-President. Just as it's unlikely they would have done so for McCain, Cruz, Goldwater, or Romney. But that doesn't mean that there aren't differing positions that have long been considered mainstream in the legal academy that are worth discussing.


She was born in the USA, she isn't a clone, her father was not Yog-Sothoth, so she is a natural born citizen.  Why is this concept so hard to understand?
 
2020-08-13 12:48:41 PM  

FnkyTwn: "questions were raised by the Constitution's Article II, Section 1 "natural born Citizen" requirement for presidential eligibility about both John McCain and Ted Cruz"

No they really weren't other than as a joke. What really happened is that instead of asking questions about their own candidates, conservatives projected their fears and inadequacies onto Obama. So since McCain wasn't born in the continental United States, then Obama was from Kenya.

"So before we so cavalierly accept Senator Harris' eligibility for the office of vice president, we should ask her a few questions about the status of her parents at the time of her birth."

So Dr. John Eastman is a piece of shiat and a racist, and now Newsweek is making crappy excuses for him because they probably asked him to write it as an inflammatory piece to get eyeballs. So fark Newsweek and fark John Eastman, who should be fired from Chapman University and the Claremont Institute, who are now tainted by their employment of this bumbling racist.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-13 12:49:46 PM  
fark anyone using this weak sauce.

fark then doubly for only applying to people that "sound or look foreign".

Meaning cruz, obama, harris.

All of them. Questioning their citizenship is the response of a group that has nothing else and no I dont remember cruz being pilloried over it but this shiat has got to stop.
 
2020-08-13 12:50:38 PM  
The article had everything to do with misogyny, racism and the love of rape, however.
 
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