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(National Review)   Democrats will rue the day for trying to kill the filibuster   (nationalreview.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, United States Senate, Democratic Party, Party leaders of the United States Senate, upper chamber's legislative filibuster, Mitch McConnell, Oregon senator Jeff Merkley, Senate majority, Harry Reid  
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1747 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Aug 2020 at 12:16 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-10 9:05:24 AM  
The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.
 
2020-08-10 9:07:30 AM  
Probably, because the American people are just stupid enough to hand total control back to the Republicans at some point.  Then all of America will rue the day.

Of course if they don't, the Republicans will be complete obstructionist assholes for even the smallest thing.

It's not so much that the Government is broken as that the GOP is broken.  What needs to happen is the GOP needs to go away entirely, then the Democrats need to mitosis into a sane conservative party and a viable liberal party.  The problem is that the racists and morons will try and find a home in one of those parties and drag it down.
 
2020-08-10 9:19:10 AM  
You forgot an "l"...
 
2020-08-10 9:28:19 AM  
Who talks like that?
 
2020-08-10 9:46:09 AM  
What sophmoric writing.
 
2020-08-10 12:20:20 PM  
Not as much as The Republican's will rue their cult like devotion to the Cheeto-In-Chief.  Suck it NRO!
 
2020-08-10 12:20:47 PM  

UberDave: Who talks like that?


thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-10 12:20:54 PM  

EvilEgg: Probably, because the American people are just stupid enough to hand total control back to the Republicans at some point.  Then all of America will rue the day.

Of course if they don't, the Republicans will be complete obstructionist assholes for even the smallest thing.

It's not so much that the Government is broken as that the GOP is broken.  What needs to happen is the GOP needs to go away entirely, then the Democrats need to mitosis into a sane conservative party and a viable liberal party.  The problem is that the racists and morons will try and find a home in one of those parties and drag it down.


Yeah, it's pretty much a broken tool at this time. Of course part of the fix for that could be to make the filibuster more like the old days and literally require these arseholes to stand there and keep blathering. However, like the blue slip, it's pretty much dead now anyway.
 
2020-08-10 12:21:34 PM  
Empty threat.
 
2020-08-10 12:22:21 PM  
Can't keep doing what we are doing. At all.

The fillibuster needs to die.
 
2020-08-10 12:22:40 PM  

Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.


That wasn't an actual filibuster, but I hear you.

Holy shiat, wait a minute...

Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.


!
 
2020-08-10 12:22:44 PM  
I did not read the article, but as life long democrat/socialist (i voted Nader in 2000)  I am 100% fine with killing the filibuster.  I know that the GOP will take power again and can then ram whatever they want through.  However, i firmly believe the issue with the country is we don;t see the full effects of either sides legislation.  Let the GOP stand by there word, and maybe they will stop being babies, or people will vote them out.

The filibuster as it stands now MUST end.  Turn it back into a stall tactic, not a 'kill this because i say so' tactic.  It has essentially crippled the congress.  Time to end it.
 
2020-08-10 12:23:22 PM  

Palined Parenthood: Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.

That wasn't an actual filibuster, but I hear you.

Holy shiat, wait a minute...

Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.

!


We're through the looking glass here, people.
 
2020-08-10 12:23:35 PM  

UberDave: Who talks like that?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-10 12:25:20 PM  
The weird rule that broke American politics
Youtube Gt4jHLteXag
 
2020-08-10 12:25:52 PM  
Isn't the filibuster lying face down in a ditch somewhere already?

McConnell managed to hold votes to waive it for everything he's wanted to ram through the Senate from the Tax Scam to the SCOTUS.
 
2020-08-10 12:26:09 PM  
It's the current GOP senate and prior GOP house that initiated the tossing of prior norms & considerations in Congress in order to achieve policy goals and sideline the minority. They're going to do it themselves the second they think they can. I'd rather beat them to it.
 
2020-08-10 12:26:55 PM  
If they actually enforced the filibuster as originally intended (physically stand there and talk uninterrupted for hours on end) then fine, keep it.  But The GOP has weaponized it, corrupted it, perverted it and turned it into a corrupt, twisted evil version of itself.

In it's current form, it needs to go away.
 
2020-08-10 12:27:20 PM  
https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/1​1​/dont-bring-back-judicial-filibuster-e​d-whelan/

I am sure there's a better example of NRO hypocrisy but I only have so much time to search.
 
2020-08-10 12:27:33 PM  
memegenerator.netView Full Size
 
2020-08-10 12:29:32 PM  
They should just be able to say "filibuster" and be done with it. I wouldn't get rid of the power it has though, it keeps the government from doing things. Which is good, because it is very very rare that the government does something everyone likes. Which is what it should do. Can't get everyone on board at a federal level? Did you consider starting smaller? Maybe show that it works, or give up when it fails?
 
2020-08-10 12:30:01 PM  
"Don't kill the filibuster. We have to let the nation die in order to save the nation."
 
2020-08-10 12:30:37 PM  

UberDave: Who talks like that?


Villains.  Villains talk like that.

Why the hell would we take any advice from a organization bent on destroying America as a world power in the service of Russian money?

Fark NRO.
 
2020-08-10 12:31:22 PM  
I'd love to see an analysis on the number of times that the filibuster was used to kill something that had popular support among the American people but in hindsight, we all agree is a bad idea vs. used to block something that had popular support among the American people and in hindsight, we agree is a good idea.
 
2020-08-10 12:32:16 PM  
The day has already been rued.  How much more can we rue it?
 
2020-08-10 12:32:43 PM  

UberDave: Who talks like that?


memegenerator.netView Full Size

She did once upon a time.....

 
2020-08-10 12:33:00 PM  

Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.


Acting like children has become the entire Republican platform.
 
2020-08-10 12:33:24 PM  
Republicans make a mockery of the filibuster. Cruz' was a complete waste. Mcconnell filibusters his own bill.

And what is the point of a filibuster anyways? To delay a vote on a bill? Why even have a filibuster when Mcconnell has an iron grip on what gets to vote anyways?
 
2020-08-10 12:33:53 PM  

Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.


The issue is pretty simple.  Imagine a world where there was no filibuster in 2016 when Trump was elected.  Imagine the type of laws that would have passed between 2017 and 2019 when the Republicans then had control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.

You better believe a fair number of Democratic Senators will imagine such when this comes to a vote in early 2021, causing them to vote no to killing it.

Of course, the issue is that it stops the good and the bad.  But any laws that pass during the bad times (when the Republicans control both houses of Congress and the Presidency) the country will pretty much be stuck with until the Dems control both houses of Congress plus the Presidency.
 
2020-08-10 12:34:00 PM  

Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.


The filibuster served a role. The problem is that there is no longer discourse in the legislature, so the filibuster going on hiatus is not the worse. As it is the republicans have shown elected officials are willing to go 4 to 12 years w/ no meaningful legislation passed. Even if legislation is would offer relief to citizens who are dying at a rate of 1 per minute during a plague.

If there is to be a fight then the things to fight over are gerrymandering, citizens united, and rotating lobbying door. The GOP is not interested in fixing anything, they are getting paid for their scorched earth policy that destroys the nation.

/ I wish this post was hyperbole, it is likely the post understates the problem.
 
2020-08-10 12:34:19 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-10 12:34:25 PM  
If the filibuster was used in a way that the minority could only block things that are completely unacceptable to them, I think it would be fine. The minority party shouldn't be completely ignored.  The problem turns out to be when everyone is extremely polarized, anything the other side does becomes unacceptable. So then it becomes really hard to pass anything meaningful. And that is what it turns into. Nothing gets done. And since the Senate GOP can basically block anything with only ~35% the popular vote, an extreme minority of voters can block everything.

Anything bad that could happen after removing, probably isn't as bad as what could happen if it stays in.

I didn't really want to remove the filibuster myself. I am still weary of doing it, but the GOP has left no other choice.
 
2020-08-10 12:35:15 PM  
Maybe in 8 years...
 
2020-08-10 12:35:42 PM  
Republicans are welcome to reintroduce it when they're in power.

As they are any of the changes they decry.
 
2020-08-10 12:36:03 PM  

Target Builder: Isn't the filibuster lying face down in a ditch somewhere already?

McConnell managed to hold votes to waive it for everything he's wanted to ram through the Senate from the Tax Scam to the SCOTUS.


Not quite.

During the Obama administration, the Dems got annoyed with the GOP filibustering Obama's court picks, so in Nov 2013 (before the gop took over congress) the Dems eliminated the filibuster for judges. The GOP took control in 2014.  So the dems could not block any judicial nominee, Boner and later Turtle just ignored Obama's picks.  This is why Trump had a 'historic number of judges added to the bench" the gop just did not allow Obama to place anyone, either because the filibuster or they basically never brought the nominee to the floor.

SCOTU is exempt form this rule.

The tax scam was passed due to a rule the congress can use to get around the filibuster, but they can only use it once, a year though the process of reconciliation.  The tax cut was passed this way, and Mitch used it to try to get the ACA repeal passed, but McCain stopped that.

The filibuster MUST die.
 
2020-08-10 12:36:44 PM  

Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.



The idea of it and how we treat it are highly divided and this is really the issue.

Ignore the word, filibuster for a moment, to just speak mechanically about the process with no short cut terms like it that include a lot of details not being said explicitly.

Problem we want to avoid:
A majority can quickly and without delay, do as they please while completely ignoring a portion of the population that happens to be in a  minority opion to do so.

Why is that a problem?
The ASSUMPTION is, just because the most want to do/not do a thing, does not mean they are automatically good/right/moral/sustainable/fair/equi​table top their fellow citizens. If let unchecked a majority can quickly turn into tyranny over many many lives, don't matter that 49% didn't agree they may in fact be very right and the 51% very wrong.


So how to have a "game mechanic" that will assumes the majority probably ought to be getting on with it, but cannot just do so freely without needing to stand up to serious debate, even if only a small handfull of us want to bring that debate and not able to make the same assumptions as the majority.

How do we have a system that INSISTS all ideas MUST withstand meaningful debate, even if very few are trying to bring that debate?


As we can see from this idea of what the need is, we can easily see that just yammering about whatever randomly is not in the spirit of what this is intended to be for us as a policy creating system.
That again, ASSUMES that withstanding healthy intelligent debate IS REQUIRED to find the best laws and public polices for us all.
 
2020-08-10 12:37:13 PM  
The best possible thing is for Americans to truly suffer the consequences of voting for Republicans -- because right now, I think most people vote for Republicans to register their dislike of goverment. . not because they like their policies.


Well, I say give it to them.   Let them eat their fill.
 
2020-08-10 12:37:32 PM  

Geotpf: Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.

The issue is pretty simple.  Imagine a world where there was no filibuster in 2016 when Trump was elected.  Imagine the type of laws that would have passed between 2017 and 2019 when the Republicans then had control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.

You better believe a fair number of Democratic Senators will imagine such when this comes to a vote in early 2021, causing them to vote no to killing it.

Of course, the issue is that it stops the good and the bad.  But any laws that pass during the bad times (when the Republicans control both houses of Congress and the Presidency) the country will pretty much be stuck with until the Dems control both houses of Congress plus the Presidency.


Kill it for four years. At the end of bidens term, the filibuster returns. Republicans can go fark themselves.
 
2020-08-10 12:37:57 PM  
What Republican political objective has been boned by the filibuster/threat of the filibuster in the last quarter century? Maybe judges but that's already been eliminated.

Everything Republican objective of the Trump and Bush years could be accomplished via reconcilliation. What have they been keeping their powder dry on?
 
2020-08-10 12:38:01 PM  

Target Builder: Isn't the filibuster lying face down in a ditch somewhere already?

McConnell managed to hold votes to waive it for everything he's wanted to ram through the Senate from the Tax Scam to the SCOTUS.


Bills regarding raising revenue or spending can not be filibustered under the rules unless they raise the overall deficit over a period of ten years.  McConnell's tax bill met this rule, more or less (you can use "estimates" that are mostly bullshiat to predict the numbers).  This is the reason there were actual tax increases in the bill (the biggest one was one that disallowed deducting state and local taxes over a certain amount, which resulted in rich red state residents to have a higher tax bill).
 
2020-08-10 12:38:24 PM  

Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.


You're talking about republicans. I'm surprised Cruz didn't go boom boom on the senate floor. Nothing is too juvenile for them.
 
2020-08-10 12:38:35 PM  

Geotpf: Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.

The issue is pretty simple.  Imagine a world where there was no filibuster in 2016 when Trump was elected.  Imagine the type of laws that would have passed between 2017 and 2019 when the Republicans then had control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.

You better believe a fair number of Democratic Senators will imagine such when this comes to a vote in early 2021, causing them to vote no to killing it.

Of course, the issue is that it stops the good and the bad.  But any laws that pass during the bad times (when the Republicans control both houses of Congress and the Presidency) the country will pretty much be stuck with until the Dems control both houses of Congress plus the Presidency.


I'd hate to ask you to marry me. You'd spend several minutes dithering about all the bad shirt that could come your way, like maybe I'll divorce you and take half your money in alimony or maybe our kids will turn out to be malignant narcissists, before halfheartedly muttering "no" and benching about how none of your relationships turn out good.
 
2020-08-10 12:38:45 PM  

OldJames: They should just be able to say "filibuster" and be done with it. I wouldn't get rid of the power it has though, it keeps the government from doing things. Which is good, because it is very very rare that the government does something everyone likes. Which is what it should do. Can't get everyone on board at a federal level? Did you consider starting smaller? Maybe show that it works, or give up when it fails?


This is how it is now.  A Senator essentially says 'Mr Speaker... I filibuster'

The Speaker then calls for a vote, to kill the filibuster.  If the vote gets 60 then filibuster request is dead.  If it does;t then it stands and the bill is dead.

Its stupid and needs to die
 
2020-08-10 12:39:52 PM  

Bandito King: Geotpf: Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.

The issue is pretty simple.  Imagine a world where there was no filibuster in 2016 when Trump was elected.  Imagine the type of laws that would have passed between 2017 and 2019 when the Republicans then had control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.

You better believe a fair number of Democratic Senators will imagine such when this comes to a vote in early 2021, causing them to vote no to killing it.

Of course, the issue is that it stops the good and the bad.  But any laws that pass during the bad times (when the Republicans control both houses of Congress and the Presidency) the country will pretty much be stuck with until the Dems control both houses of Congress plus the Presidency.

Kill it for four years. At the end of bidens term, the filibuster returns. Republicans can go fark themselves.


The Senate sets it's rules at the beginning of each term.  If the Dems eliminate it, it will stay eliminated if the Republicans ever retake the majority.
 
2020-08-10 12:40:00 PM  
How about the next thing you try to kill is Citizens United, Dems?  Or will that upset Republicans too much?
 
2020-08-10 12:41:15 PM  
Constitutionally, the filibuster doesn't farking exist.

End of story.

Thry want a raw fight for power, but when it's not going their way they bemoan our lack of adherence to the Marquess of Queensberry Rules. They can get bent. If positions were reversed they'd curb-stomp us politically and giggle while doing it.
 
2020-08-10 12:41:42 PM  

OldJames: Can't get everyone on board at a federal level?


You shouldn't have to get everyone on board. Just a simple majority.

James Madison, Federalist 58:

[The limited benefits of super majority requirements] are outweighed by the inconveniences in the opposite scale. In all cases where justice or the general good might require new laws to be passed, or active measures to be pursued, the fundamental principle of free government would be reversed. It would be no longer the majority that would rule: the power would be transferred to the minority.


Quiz time:

James Madison called majority rule:

a) the greatest tyranny of any kind whatsoever in world history; worse than Hitler, Stalin, and Obama combined
b) a terrible idea which will inevitably yield the literal cannibalization of the minority for the benefit of the majority
c) the fundamental principle of free government
d) your gramma's puddin'

Answer key: c

Abolish the filibuster. The tyranny of the minority sucks balls.
 
2020-08-10 12:42:02 PM  

Serious Black: Geotpf: Mugato: The filibuster is a farking juvenile, ridiculous waste of time and tax payer's money. Ted Cruz stood up and read Green Eggs and Ham FFS. There has to be a better way to handle things than acting like 12 year olds.

The issue is pretty simple.  Imagine a world where there was no filibuster in 2016 when Trump was elected.  Imagine the type of laws that would have passed between 2017 and 2019 when the Republicans then had control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.

You better believe a fair number of Democratic Senators will imagine such when this comes to a vote in early 2021, causing them to vote no to killing it.

Of course, the issue is that it stops the good and the bad.  But any laws that pass during the bad times (when the Republicans control both houses of Congress and the Presidency) the country will pretty much be stuck with until the Dems control both houses of Congress plus the Presidency.

I'd hate to ask you to marry me. You'd spend several minutes dithering about all the bad shirt that could come your way, like maybe I'll divorce you and take half your money in alimony or maybe our kids will turn out to be malignant narcissists, before halfheartedly muttering "no" and benching about how none of your relationships turn out good.


If one believes that the Republicans will never ever ever retake both houses of Congress and the Presidency, go for it.

Difficulty: I believed this on November 7th, 2016.
 
2020-08-10 12:42:58 PM  

jethroe: How about the next thing you try to kill is Citizens United, Dems?  Or will that upset Republicans too much?


I'll take "Things that require a constitutional amendment to be changed so they never will be" for a thousand, Alex.
 
2020-08-10 12:43:35 PM  
"Imagine the laws your opponents would have passed!" Yeah. Sure. Then they can run on that record and answer to the voters the following election. They can live or die by sh*t they've actually done. That's how it is supposed to work.

I would rather have a government that can actually pass legislation -- even bills I may not particularly like! -- then one that is frozen shut. Climate change, among a dozen other pressing issues, means we do not have time for inaction. Bonus - if you don't like presidents overreaching with executive actions - having a legislature that can actually pass legislation more often means they won't have to!
 
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