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    More: Scary, Police, Police brutality, Constable, Arrest, Crime, plainclothes NYPD officer, Police officer, police reaction  
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13456 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 09 Aug 2020 at 10:05 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-09 7:36:26 PM  
It's a problem from the very beginning of every single cop's career: law enforcement officers are trained to lie. Fact.

Nothing will change until this does.
 
2020-08-09 7:40:22 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-09 7:52:04 PM  
'Murica.
 
2020-08-09 8:51:43 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-09 9:27:42 PM  
CSB: Almost 30 yrs ago I was appointed defense counsel in a big federal drug case and we held hearings to suppress evidence in over a dozen police searches. In all of them, there was either "consent" or plain view if contraband, no prior warrants.

The defendants, LA Crips who were supplying the Midwest, would sit and laugh thru the hearings. The cops were lying so hard and badly, they'd laugh until the judge got mad.

I'd ask my guy what was funny, he'd say, Man, we're stupid but who'd leave a kilo on top of a TV, in front of an open window, in THAT neighborhood? You'd be shot and the key gone in a minute.

Nah, it was buried in bags, under clothes, in a gym bag, in a locked farking closet,...you got pics of how they kicked in that door and the gym bag is on the floor over in that pic...

The cop would swear it was in plain view from the street, it was the defendant who smashed that door, etc.

The evidence all came in. My guy got out of prison about 5 years ago.
 
2020-08-09 10:06:49 PM  
It's why they hate people taking videos of them.  It  makes lying that much harder.
 
2020-08-09 10:11:45 PM  

wejash: CSB: Almost 30 yrs ago I was appointed defense counsel in a big federal drug case and we held hearings to suppress evidence in over a dozen police searches. In all of them, there was either "consent" or plain view if contraband, no prior warrants.

The defendants, LA Crips who were supplying the Midwest, would sit and laugh thru the hearings. The cops were lying so hard and badly, they'd laugh until the judge got mad.

I'd ask my guy what was funny, he'd say, Man, we're stupid but who'd leave a kilo on top of a TV, in front of an open window, in THAT neighborhood? You'd be shot and the key gone in a minute.

Nah, it was buried in bags, under clothes, in a gym bag, in a locked farking closet,...you got pics of how they kicked in that door and the gym bag is on the floor over in that pic...

The cop would swear it was in plain view from the street, it was the defendant who smashed that door, etc.

The evidence all came in. My guy got out of prison about 5 years ago.


The thing the average Law abiding dumbass citizen doesn't care about anyone's Right's, but their own. Look at the maskless using prochoice slogan 'my body my choice.'

When Trump places them in camps they will want to Riley black and brown but it will be too late.
 
2020-08-09 10:12:52 PM  

Summoner101: It's why they hate people taking videos of them.  It  makes lying that much harder.


If only. Did that vid of them planting evidence play out? I think it was Philadelphia works Chicago
The video actually shows them planting the dope in the back of the guy's house/complex
 
2020-08-09 10:14:02 PM  
I sat on a jury for a low-level weed possession case about 20 years ago. To this day I'm convinced the cop lied on the stand.

We acquitted the guy.
 
2020-08-09 10:14:29 PM  
Starting to think that being a cop isn't the noble profession our cultural mythology has painted it as.

Well, like "Slavemaster" and "Child Labor Beater" before them, perhaps "Cop" deserves to be dustbinned and replaced with something less thoroughly reprehensible*.

* That means bad, cops
 
2020-08-09 10:15:33 PM  

waxbeans: Summoner101: It's why they hate people taking videos of them.  It  makes lying that much harder.

If only. Did that vid of them planting evidence play out? I think it was Philadelphia works Chicago
The video actually shows them planting the dope in the back of the guy's house/complex


Harder, not impossible.  Think of where we'd be if George Floyd's murder wasn't captured on video.  The cops would've made up some story, and it would've conveniently been swept under the rug.
 
2020-08-09 10:17:31 PM  

wejash: CSB: Almost 30 yrs ago I was appointed defense counsel in a big federal drug case and we held hearings to suppress evidence in over a dozen police searches. In all of them, there was either "consent" or plain view if contraband, no prior warrants.

The defendants, LA Crips who were supplying the Midwest, would sit and laugh thru the hearings. The cops were lying so hard and badly, they'd laugh until the judge got mad.

I'd ask my guy what was funny, he'd say, Man, we're stupid but who'd leave a kilo on top of a TV, in front of an open window, in THAT neighborhood? You'd be shot and the key gone in a minute.

Nah, it was buried in bags, under clothes, in a gym bag, in a locked farking closet,...you got pics of how they kicked in that door and the gym bag is on the floor over in that pic...

The cop would swear it was in plain view from the street, it was the defendant who smashed that door, etc.

The evidence all came in. My guy got out of prison about 5 years ago.


Police do not view themselves as law enforcement officers.  They view themselves as enforcers of a moral code, and the law is a tool they can use to enforce it, or not.

Your guy, admittedly a "bad guy" is a perfect example of that.  Circumstances are such that a legitimate warrant can't be made?  We will just cook up a bullshiat story and get the bad guy that way.
 
2020-08-09 10:17:54 PM  

PhoenixFarker: I sat on a jury for a low-level weed possession case about 20 years ago. To this day I'm convinced the cop lied on the stand.

We acquitted the guy.


Jurors should be instructed to discount anything a cop says on the stand as an obvious lie absent rigorous documentation and physical evidence supporting it.

The default assumption should be that cops are lying, it should be incumbent on them to prove that they're not.
 
2020-08-09 10:18:12 PM  
"Would the criminal justice system collapse if cops were forced to tell the truth?"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-09 10:18:20 PM  
"After Parham's attorneys released the video-and his local representatives raised concerns-the district attorney dropped all charges. Daverin, who had been named in at least 10 other misconduct lawsuits, was never disciplined, either for brutalizing Parham or for lying about it. Two years later, he remains on the force."

Qualified immunity is basically the police taking a monumental schitt all over the Constitution.


Police: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube Wf4cea5oObY
 
2020-08-09 10:19:03 PM  
Because Hollywood needs more inspiration for cop drama?
 
2020-08-09 10:20:27 PM  
No police statement should ever be believed without corroborating evidence.
 
2020-08-09 10:20:36 PM  
You can't pin this 100% on the cops.

Look back at the last, oh, 50 or 60 years of legislation and jurisprudence. Look at every politician who has promised to crack down on crime, every panicked citizen's group who demanded protection after their little cul-de-sac was hit by a burglary or a homicide.

Then look at every smug douchebag, some of them right here on Fark, who bragged about how they never sat on a jury because they were "too smart" and never bothered to show up to flood the jury pool, who never bothered to vote against those politicians and tough-on-crime judges.

We are all just as guilty of wanting cops to put away bad guys and have assured ourselves that even if they weren't guilty "this time" they must have done something sometime to deserve it. Hell, there are trolls around here who are pretty sure everyone in prison is guilty of something.

Every single one of them encourages cops to lie, starting with the ones who "saw" a baggie slip from a kid's pocket onto the ground in the dark, all the way up to the ones staring at their shoes while beatings take place, to the ones who shoot suspects in back and pretend he had a loaded Abrams tank aimed at their forehead.

Think of the justice system as a spear. The cops are just the tip of that spear. Blunt the tip, file down the point, and the full power of the spear will still push just as hard through the bowels of the victim. Don't console yourselves thinking "if only cops stopped lying it would all be better."
 
2020-08-09 10:22:02 PM  

Summoner101: waxbeans: Summoner101: It's why they hate people taking videos of them.  It  makes lying that much harder.

If only. Did that vid of them planting evidence play out? I think it was Philadelphia works Chicago
The video actually shows them planting the dope in the back of the guy's house/complex

Harder, not impossible.  Think of where we'd be if George Floyd's murder wasn't captured on video.  The cops would've made up some story, and it would've conveniently been swept under the rug.


Yeah. Of course.
I was curious if that case in particular got tossed out?
 
2020-08-09 10:22:09 PM  

OgreMagi: No police statement should ever be believed without corroborating evidence.


Let's take away their guns too.
 
2020-08-09 10:23:04 PM  
I'll just get this one out of the way.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-09 10:24:09 PM  

FkYouFkYouFkYou-WhosNext: Would the criminal justice system collapse if cops were forced to tell the truth?"


We (the People) have a different definition of "justice".  We think it means we prosecute the bad guys and put them in jail while doing the utmost to protect the innocent.  That is not even remotely close to the truth.  For the DA and the cops, justice means they put someone in jail.  They don't actually give a shiat who is put in jail, so long as it makes them look good.

So yes, the criminal justice system would collapse because they would be forced to actually go after the real bad guys and not some innocent black kid with no money who is forced to plea bargain away the next five years of his life because his public attorney never bothered to read his file.
 
2020-08-09 10:25:08 PM  

Rent Party: .  Circumstances are such that a legitimate warrant can't be made?  We will just cook up a bullshiat story and get the bad guy that way.


Not enough citizens care about that. They are okay with cops lying about people who are likely guilty.
They don't understand how that ends up costing every one of us. They think bodies in jail means something even if it's done with lies. But that actually corrupts the whole system.
 
2020-08-09 10:25:43 PM  

OgreMagi: FkYouFkYouFkYou-WhosNext: Would the criminal justice system collapse if cops were forced to tell the truth?"

We (the People) have a different definition of "justice".  We think it means we prosecute the bad guys and put them in jail while doing the utmost to protect the innocent.  That is not even remotely close to the truth.  For the DA and the cops, justice means they put someone in jail.  They don't actually give a shiat who is put in jail, so long as it makes them look good.

So yes, the criminal justice system would collapse because they would be forced to actually go after the real bad guys and not some innocent black kid with no money who is forced to plea bargain away the next five years of his life because his public attorney never bothered to read his file.


I disagree with you on a lot of things but I agree with you 100% on this.
 
2020-08-09 10:27:06 PM  

Gyrfalcon: You can't pin this 100% on the cops.

Look back at the last, oh, 50 or 60 years of legislation and jurisprudence. Look at every politician who has promised to crack down on crime, every panicked citizen's group who demanded protection after their little cul-de-sac was hit by a burglary or a homicide.

Then look at every smug douchebag, some of them right here on Fark, who bragged about how they never sat on a jury because they were "too smart" and never bothered to show up to flood the jury pool, who never bothered to vote against those politicians and tough-on-crime judges.

We are all just as guilty of wanting cops to put away bad guys and have assured ourselves that even if they weren't guilty "this time" they must have done something sometime to deserve it. Hell, there are trolls around here who are pretty sure everyone in prison is guilty of something.

Every single one of them encourages cops to lie, starting with the ones who "saw" a baggie slip from a kid's pocket onto the ground in the dark, all the way up to the ones staring at their shoes while beatings take place, to the ones who shoot suspects in back and pretend he had a loaded Abrams tank aimed at their forehead.

Think of the justice system as a spear. The cops are just the tip of that spear. Blunt the tip, file down the point, and the full power of the spear will still push just as hard through the bowels of the victim. Don't console yourselves thinking "if only cops stopped lying it would all be better."


Correct.
 
2020-08-09 10:34:08 PM  

wejash: CSB: Almost 30 yrs ago I was appointed defense counsel in a big federal drug case and we held hearings to suppress evidence in over a dozen police searches. In all of them, there was either "consent" or plain view if contraband, no prior warrants.

The defendants, LA Crips who were supplying the Midwest, would sit and laugh thru the hearings. The cops were lying so hard and badly, they'd laugh until the judge got mad.

I'd ask my guy what was funny, he'd say, Man, we're stupid but who'd leave a kilo on top of a TV, in front of an open window, in THAT neighborhood? You'd be shot and the key gone in a minute.

Nah, it was buried in bags, under clothes, in a gym bag, in a locked farking closet,...you got pics of how they kicked in that door and the gym bag is on the floor over in that pic...

The cop would swear it was in plain view from the street, it was the defendant who smashed that door, etc.

The evidence all came in. My guy got out of prison about 5 years ago.


Are you glad you failed, or would you have gone home and celebrated a job well done if you had gotten them acquitted?
 
2020-08-09 10:36:17 PM  

Gyrfalcon: You can't pin this 100% on the cops.

Look back at the last, oh, 50 or 60 years of legislation and jurisprudence. Look at every politician who has promised to crack down on crime, every panicked citizen's group who demanded protection after their little cul-de-sac was hit by a burglary or a homicide.

Then look at every smug douchebag, some of them right here on Fark, who bragged about how they never sat on a jury because they were "too smart" and never bothered to show up to flood the jury pool, who never bothered to vote against those politicians and tough-on-crime judges.

We are all just as guilty of wanting cops to put away bad guys and have assured ourselves that even if they weren't guilty "this time" they must have done something sometime to deserve it. Hell, there are trolls around here who are pretty sure everyone in prison is guilty of something.

Every single one of them encourages cops to lie, starting with the ones who "saw" a baggie slip from a kid's pocket onto the ground in the dark, all the way up to the ones staring at their shoes while beatings take place, to the ones who shoot suspects in back and pretend he had a loaded Abrams tank aimed at their forehead.

Think of the justice system as a spear. The cops are just the tip of that spear. Blunt the tip, file down the point, and the full power of the spear will still push just as hard through the bowels of the victim. Don't console yourselves thinking "if only cops stopped lying it would all be better."


I mean, I have actively endorsed abolishing prison and police for at least 20 years, so... no, we're not all the same.

If I could Thanos snap half of Earth's population away, I wouldn't, I'd do 90%.
 
2020-08-09 10:37:31 PM  

gar1013: Are you glad you failed, or would you have gone home and celebrated a job well done if you had gotten them acquitted?


So it's ok for the police to violate rights and the law?
 
2020-08-09 10:40:29 PM  

TwowheelinTim: It's a problem from the very beginning of every single cop's career: law enforcement officers are trained to lie. Fact.

Nothing will change until this does.


Yup.  We were discussing lying pigs in the Botham Jean murderer thread yesterday.  With a lying pig.  As I said then, all cops are professional liars.  And also bastards.

/acaplaab
 
2020-08-09 10:41:20 PM  

OgreMagi: gar1013: Are you glad you failed, or would you have gone home and celebrated a job well done if you had gotten them acquitted?

So it's ok for the police to violate rights and the law?


When did I say that?

Not once did I say that.

I simply asked the question about whether he was happy that he failed at a particular task, knowing that his failure resulted in dangerous people being put away, or if he would have been happy had he won, knowing that the victory would likely result in people dying and lives being ruined.

Nowhere in there am I saying it's okay to violate rights.
 
2020-08-09 10:41:52 PM  
"Police, in other words, would have to stop arresting so many people for minor crimes. Once cities stopped deploying officers to harass misdemeanants, they could shrink their police force, reducing the number of encounters between cops and civilians. Agencies might then dedicate those resources to investigative and detective work in order to build solid cases against suspects, thereby creating a higher bar for which cases to pursue. Prosecutors would be forced to make a more careful calculation about the risk of bringing a case to trial and drop cases that rested on a search of dubious legality."

The horror.
 
2020-08-09 10:42:18 PM  

Gyrfalcon: You can't pin this 100% on the cops.

Look back at the last, oh, 50 or 60 years of legislation and jurisprudence. Look at every politician who has promised to crack down on crime, every panicked citizen's group who demanded protection after their little cul-de-sac was hit by a burglary or a homicide.

Then look at every smug douchebag, some of them right here on Fark, who bragged about how they never sat on a jury because they were "too smart" and never bothered to show up to flood the jury pool, who never bothered to vote against those politicians and tough-on-crime judges.

We are all just as guilty of wanting cops to put away bad guys and have assured ourselves that even if they weren't guilty "this time" they must have done something sometime to deserve it. Hell, there are trolls around here who are pretty sure everyone in prison is guilty of something.

Every single one of them encourages cops to lie, starting with the ones who "saw" a baggie slip from a kid's pocket onto the ground in the dark, all the way up to the ones staring at their shoes while beatings take place, to the ones who shoot suspects in back and pretend he had a loaded Abrams tank aimed at their forehead.

Think of the justice system as a spear. The cops are just the tip of that spear. Blunt the tip, file down the point, and the full power of the spear will still push just as hard through the bowels of the victim. Don't console yourselves thinking "if only cops stopped lying it would all be better."


Damn. Fark needs a terrifyingly true button.
 
2020-08-09 10:45:26 PM  
Defund/ Abolish the Police
 
2020-08-09 10:45:29 PM  

Rent Party: wejash: CSB: Almost 30 yrs ago I was appointed defense counsel in a big federal drug case and we held hearings to suppress evidence in over a dozen police searches. In all of them, there was either "consent" or plain view if contraband, no prior warrants.

The defendants, LA Crips who were supplying the Midwest, would sit and laugh thru the hearings. The cops were lying so hard and badly, they'd laugh until the judge got mad.

I'd ask my guy what was funny, he'd say, Man, we're stupid but who'd leave a kilo on top of a TV, in front of an open window, in THAT neighborhood? You'd be shot and the key gone in a minute.

Nah, it was buried in bags, under clothes, in a gym bag, in a locked farking closet,...you got pics of how they kicked in that door and the gym bag is on the floor over in that pic...

The cop would swear it was in plain view from the street, it was the defendant who smashed that door, etc.

The evidence all came in. My guy got out of prison about 5 years ago.

Police do not view themselves as law enforcement officers.  They view themselves as enforcers of a moral code, and the law is a tool they can use to enforce it, or not.

Your guy, admittedly a "bad guy" is a perfect example of that.  Circumstances are such that a legitimate warrant can't be made?  We will just cook up a bullshiat story and get the bad guy that way.


Thank you for exactly illustrating the problem.

We do not care about your moral code.

You are not paid for your moral code.

You are paid to serve the public and uphold the law.

Do your goddamned job and quit massaging your moral "superiority".

Signed,
A guy who's been dispatching for cops for 15 years and cannot stand the erosion of public trust brought about by your BS secret handshake boys club "code".  Public trust is the lifeblood of public service and lies from cops make taking 911 calls harder than they have to be.

Please stop lying because you think you know better.

Serve.
 
2020-08-09 10:48:09 PM  

Rent Party: wejash: CSB: Almost 30 yrs ago I was appointed defense counsel in a big federal drug case and we held hearings to suppress evidence in over a dozen police searches. In all of them, there was either "consent" or plain view if contraband, no prior warrants.

The defendants, LA Crips who were supplying the Midwest, would sit and laugh thru the hearings. The cops were lying so hard and badly, they'd laugh until the judge got mad.

I'd ask my guy what was funny, he'd say, Man, we're stupid but who'd leave a kilo on top of a TV, in front of an open window, in THAT neighborhood? You'd be shot and the key gone in a minute.

Nah, it was buried in bags, under clothes, in a gym bag, in a locked farking closet,...you got pics of how they kicked in that door and the gym bag is on the floor over in that pic...

The cop would swear it was in plain view from the street, it was the defendant who smashed that door, etc.

The evidence all came in. My guy got out of prison about 5 years ago.

Police do not view themselves as law enforcement officers.  They view themselves as enforcers of a moral code, and the law is a tool they can use to enforce it, or not.

Your guy, admittedly a "bad guy" is a perfect example of that.  Circumstances are such that a legitimate warrant can't be made?  We will just cook up a bullshiat story and get the bad guy that way.


Who pointed them at that guy?  How much are they getting paid?  If I'm a cop, I just want to sit around in my car and eat donuts, why am I looking at people?
 
2020-08-09 10:48:25 PM  
"It's not because we think officers are lying most of the time," he said. "We just know that, until we watch video footage, we have no ability to distinguish between a testilying police report to cover up excessive force and legitimate criminal activity of assaulting an officer."

Wow. That's essentially admitting that any testimony from a cop cannot be trusted.
 
2020-08-09 10:50:56 PM  

waxbeans: Gyrfalcon: You can't pin this 100% on the cops.

Look back at the last, oh, 50 or 60 years of legislation and jurisprudence. Look at every politician who has promised to crack down on crime, every panicked citizen's group who demanded protection after their little cul-de-sac was hit by a burglary or a homicide.

Then look at every smug douchebag, some of them right here on Fark, who bragged about how they never sat on a jury because they were "too smart" and never bothered to show up to flood the jury pool, who never bothered to vote against those politicians and tough-on-crime judges.

We are all just as guilty of wanting cops to put away bad guys and have assured ourselves that even if they weren't guilty "this time" they must have done something sometime to deserve it. Hell, there are trolls around here who are pretty sure everyone in prison is guilty of something.

Every single one of them encourages cops to lie, starting with the ones who "saw" a baggie slip from a kid's pocket onto the ground in the dark, all the way up to the ones staring at their shoes while beatings take place, to the ones who shoot suspects in back and pretend he had a loaded Abrams tank aimed at their forehead.

Think of the justice system as a spear. The cops are just the tip of that spear. Blunt the tip, file down the point, and the full power of the spear will still push just as hard through the bowels of the victim. Don't console yourselves thinking "if only cops stopped lying it would all be better."

Correct.


That said, cops ability to lie openly on the stand in an actual court case and face zero repercussions is a real and addressable problem and it would be foolish to do nothing about it because there are also other problems.
 
2020-08-09 10:51:28 PM  

Bandito King: Gyrfalcon: You can't pin this 100% on the cops.

Look back at the last, oh, 50 or 60 years of legislation and jurisprudence. Look at every politician who has promised to crack down on crime, every panicked citizen's group who demanded protection after their little cul-de-sac was hit by a burglary or a homicide.

Then look at every smug douchebag, some of them right here on Fark, who bragged about how they never sat on a jury because they were "too smart" and never bothered to show up to flood the jury pool, who never bothered to vote against those politicians and tough-on-crime judges.

We are all just as guilty of wanting cops to put away bad guys and have assured ourselves that even if they weren't guilty "this time" they must have done something sometime to deserve it. Hell, there are trolls around here who are pretty sure everyone in prison is guilty of something.

Every single one of them encourages cops to lie, starting with the ones who "saw" a baggie slip from a kid's pocket onto the ground in the dark, all the way up to the ones staring at their shoes while beatings take place, to the ones who shoot suspects in back and pretend he had a loaded Abrams tank aimed at their forehead.

Think of the justice system as a spear. The cops are just the tip of that spear. Blunt the tip, file down the point, and the full power of the spear will still push just as hard through the bowels of the victim. Don't console yourselves thinking "if only cops stopped lying it would all be better."

I mean, I have actively endorsed abolishing prison and police for at least 20 years, so... no, we're not all the same.

If I could Thanos snap half of Earth's population away, I wouldn't, I'd do 90%.


No, we don't need to abolish police. We need to do this:

Fark user imageView Full Size


If cops did what they were meant to do - patrol neighborhoods and keep the peace - and not do everything else they are forced to do:
Enforce drug laws (DEA)
Provide martial counseling
Provide mental health counseling
Investigate crimes (detectives)
Monitor gangs (youth services)
Take down armed and barricaded suspects (SWAT)
Etc.

They wouldn't have to be the thugs they are. They could refer couples in trouble to counselors, they could call therapists for troubled kids, a separate unit would exist to take down the few heavily armed criminals out there, regular cops wouldn't be expected to do it. Trained detective units would investigate and testify to crimes, not beat officers who got 8 hours of education on the 4th amendment.

Defund the cops is a great idea. It needs to happen.
 
2020-08-09 10:51:56 PM  
How about a change to court? No taking an officers word as gospel. Treat their word as just another witness, no more and no less.
 
2020-08-09 10:52:25 PM  

China White Tea: PhoenixFarker: I sat on a jury for a low-level weed possession case about 20 years ago. To this day I'm convinced the cop lied on the stand.

We acquitted the guy.

Jurors should be instructed to discount anything a cop says on the stand as an obvious lie absent rigorous documentation and physical evidence supporting it.

The default assumption should be that cops are lying, it should be incumbent on them to prove that they're not.


Jurors shouldn't be instructed one bit on how they look at evidence or testimony.  It's their lane and everybody else should stay out of it.
 
2020-08-09 10:53:24 PM  

Summoner101: waxbeans: Summoner101: It's why they hate people taking videos of them.  It  makes lying that much harder.

If only. Did that vid of them planting evidence play out? I think it was Philadelphia works Chicago
The video actually shows them planting the dope in the back of the guy's house/complex

Harder, not impossible.  Think of where we'd be if George Floyd's murder wasn't captured on video.  The cops would've made up some story, and it would've conveniently been swept under the rug.


And in the released earlier video the cop is pointing his gun sideways gangsta style. That is only for the movies to identify the bad guy.
 
2020-08-09 10:54:04 PM  
The wife dispatches for a suburban department, I worry more about the racist assholes who live  there than any of her officers.
 
2020-08-09 10:55:29 PM  

Begoggle: OgreMagi: No police statement should ever be believed without corroborating evidence.

Let's take away their guns too.


ok
 
2020-08-09 10:56:10 PM  

Summoner101: It's why they hate people taking videos of them.  It  makes lying that much harder.


The "mysterious" body cam malfunctions need to stop. I don't have a good solution but it needs to be addressed.
 
2020-08-09 10:57:39 PM  
A partial solution may be to mix the public defenders office and the prosecutors office.  Roll of the dice... "ok, case #1344 needs a public defender. Here's the 10 lawyers in this office, everyone draw a number from the hat, first odd number is prosecutor and first even is PD.  Up next is case #1345, second odd is defense, second even is prosecution.  #1347 has a private lawyer, next odd number is prosecution"

Yes, there would need to be oversight so they just don't go "hey, looks like a scum bag, i'll toss the case for ya" or whatever, but it would also regularly pit what is currently the DAs office and the cop-teammates against them.
 
2020-08-09 10:58:03 PM  

OgreMagi: FkYouFkYouFkYou-WhosNext: Would the criminal justice system collapse if cops were forced to tell the truth?"

We (the People) have a different definition of "justice".  We think it means we prosecute the bad guys and put them in jail while doing the utmost to protect the innocent.  That is not even remotely close to the truth.  For the DA and the cops, justice means they put someone in jail.  They don't actually give a shiat who is put in jail, so long as it makes them look good.

So yes, the criminal justice system would collapse because they would be forced to actually go after the real bad guys and not some innocent black kid with no money who is forced to plea bargain away the next five years of his life because his public attorney never bothered to read his file.


If the cops and prosecutors and politicians didn't care who they put in jail, the prisoner population would match the population in general. But it does not. They certainly do care who they put in jail. They target certain groups but not the group "people who have broken that law." They have different criteria.
 
2020-08-09 10:58:29 PM  

Rent Party: wejash: CSB: Almost 30 yrs ago I was appointed defense counsel in a big federal drug case and we held hearings to suppress evidence in over a dozen police searches. In all of them, there was either "consent" or plain view if contraband, no prior warrants.

The defendants, LA Crips who were supplying the Midwest, would sit and laugh thru the hearings. The cops were lying so hard and badly, they'd laugh until the judge got mad.

I'd ask my guy what was funny, he'd say, Man, we're stupid but who'd leave a kilo on top of a TV, in front of an open window, in THAT neighborhood? You'd be shot and the key gone in a minute.

Nah, it was buried in bags, under clothes, in a gym bag, in a locked farking closet,...you got pics of how they kicked in that door and the gym bag is on the floor over in that pic...

The cop would swear it was in plain view from the street, it was the defendant who smashed that door, etc.

The evidence all came in. My guy got out of prison about 5 years ago.

Police do not view themselves as law enforcement officers.  They view themselves as enforcers of a moral code, and the law is a tool they can use to enforce it, or not.

Your guy, admittedly a "bad guy" is a perfect example of that.  Circumstances are such that a legitimate warrant can't be made?  We will just cook up a bullshiat story and get the bad guy that way.


He was coming right for us!

Their level of thought.
 
2020-08-09 11:01:26 PM  

Rent Party: wejash: CSB: Almost 30 yrs ago I was appointed defense counsel in a big federal drug case and we held hearings to suppress evidence in over a dozen police searches. In all of them, there was either "consent" or plain view if contraband, no prior warrants.

The defendants, LA Crips who were supplying the Midwest, would sit and laugh thru the hearings. The cops were lying so hard and badly, they'd laugh until the judge got mad.

I'd ask my guy what was funny, he'd say, Man, we're stupid but who'd leave a kilo on top of a TV, in front of an open window, in THAT neighborhood? You'd be shot and the key gone in a minute.

Nah, it was buried in bags, under clothes, in a gym bag, in a locked farking closet,...you got pics of how they kicked in that door and the gym bag is on the floor over in that pic...

The cop would swear it was in plain view from the street, it was the defendant who smashed that door, etc.

The evidence all came in. My guy got out of prison about 5 years ago.

Police do not view themselves as law enforcement officers.  They view themselves as enforcers of a moral code, and the law is a tool they can use to enforce it, or not.

Your guy, admittedly a "bad guy" is a perfect example of that.  Circumstances are such that a legitimate warrant can't be made?  We will just cook up a bullshiat story and get the bad guy that way.


Also, a "bad guy" deserves defense under the law. I know most don't believe this, but it used to be a foundation of our nation.

"It is better for 100 guilty men to go free than one innocent man go to jail" -paraphrased.
 
2020-08-09 11:03:48 PM  

baron von doodle: Summoner101: It's why they hate people taking videos of them.  It  makes lying that much harder.

The "mysterious" body cam malfunctions need to stop. I don't have a good solution but it needs to be addressed.


I do.  If your body cam is off for whatever reason, we assume malfeasance.  Better hope your buddies didn't mysteriously stop working, too.
 
2020-08-09 11:04:53 PM  

Summoner101: It's why they hate people taking videos of them.  It  makes lying that much harder.


If you had told a 15 year old me that in the future there would be cameras filming us nearly everywhere we go, I would have worried about to what nefarious ends the government would put such information. Instead, I'm now surprised by the irony that more often than not, it's being used to protect us from (one long arm of) the government.
 
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