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(Politico)   Wouldn't it make sense to ban nuclear weapons? 75 years after the worst atomic bomb attack in history, Nagasaki calls for drastic change   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Nuclear weapon, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, nuclear weapons ban, Nuclear proliferation, nuclear attack, Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, Japanese city of Nagasaki, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe  
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622 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Aug 2020 at 1:39 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-09 10:02:00 AM  
And how do you propose to enforce such a ban?
 
2020-08-09 10:43:16 AM  
We absolutely should get rid of them all but that genie simply isn't going back in the bottle I'm afraid.
 
2020-08-09 10:47:19 AM  
I doubt China, Pakistan, India, Russia, North Korea, Israel, etc etc, will be willing to give up on their nukes
 
2020-08-09 10:52:01 AM  

shadow01: And how do you propose to enforce such a ban?


Tell any country that does not abide to the laws and principles that I will be sent in.

Understand that I do not need weapons, because as the shirt I am wearing right now says, I AM the weapon.  My natural skillset allows me not only to overcome the environment, but to BECOME the environment, as my multi-faceted internal armament system takes full advantage of all available resources, my state-of-the-art turbinium generator is able to seamlessly compile all matter into a variety and range of armaments.

As the commanding officer looks out into the distance and sees me eating the dirt off the ground, he knows what is coming, he knows his life is already over, he gives the order that it is every man for himself, and he shoots himself before the full force and fury of two-hundred-and-fifty-six Hellfire Missiles use their advanced dirt-based targeting systems to run right up his butthole and through the anus.

That man and his men are now nothing but an afterthought in human history.  In thirty minutes, all nations of the world voluntarily give up all known weapons and engage in a worldwide genetic-engineering campaign to require that all future humans will be born without limbs or teeth, ensuring that humans will never again be able to commit violence.

That is the impact I have on society and nature, kid.  Nuclear weapons were just the first (and easiest question) on the test, and I'm on the path to get a one-hundred because I am the only answer you will ever need.  That's why the mods will never ban me from this internet messageboard.  God forbid the day comes that they send me a warning.  I will be a warning to the rest of you little shiats.

Even the mere thought of receiving a warning has put me into a state of mind and fury that your species will never recover from.  I'm firing the missiles out of my deltoids right now, five-thousand nuclear-tipped warheads per minute.  It should be eight to ten minutes before this entire planet is reduced to something that kind of resembles a corpse.

You'll think a little bit harder the next time you want to ban nuclear weapons, kiddo.  You're species is forfeit.  I hope your happy.
 
2020-08-09 11:01:07 AM  
Mike_LowELL for leader of the WORLD!
 
2020-08-09 11:10:22 AM  

AlwaysRightBoy: Mike_LowELL for leader of the WORLD!


The final comment before the nuclear missiles rained down on six-thousand years of human civilization, and the dominant species on the planet soon became the massive layer of fallout that wiped out all life.  What a pity.

Fortunate that I was able to put your check in the mail before the bombs hit.  It should be delivered to your corpse in six to eight business weeks.  There may be a small delay because of the nuclear winter, but rain or shine, the Post Office will be there.
 
2020-08-09 11:24:24 AM  
Give up nuclear weapons? Ask the Ukraine how that worked out for them in the long run?
 
2020-08-09 11:43:12 AM  
We can't even ban land mines.
 
2020-08-09 12:35:37 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: We can't even ban land mines.


But we have managed to ban kids making pistols with their fingers at school. It's a start...I guess.
 
2020-08-09 12:42:11 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: We can't even ban land mines.


I don't think that anyone actually likes mimes...

/ mines are just too easy to install. The worst are those little wooden bastards
 
2020-08-09 12:45:16 PM  
I don't trust our government to sit the right direction on a toilet, much less honor any agreement like that
 
2020-08-09 1:07:12 PM  
Using the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives. There were elements commanding the Japanese military that literally wanted to sacrifice the entire Japanese populous rather than surrender (I'm looking at you General Anami Korechika). There's a reason we are still handing out Purple Hearts manufactured in 1945 for Operation Downfall (the planned invasion of Japan) even now.
 
2020-08-09 1:24:36 PM  

ArkAngel: Using the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives. There were elements commanding the Japanese military that literally wanted to sacrifice the entire Japanese populous rather than surrender (I'm looking at you General Anami Korechika). There's a reason we are still handing out Purple Hearts manufactured in 1945 for Operation Downfall (the planned invasion of Japan) even now.


Whether or not it was justified is going to be argued by historians until the end of time.  I've even heard the argument that it saved many Japanese lives as well and while I'm not sure if that's true I can't flatly dismiss it.  An invasion of their home island given their dedication and resolve at the time would have been devastating to both sides, that much I think we can all agree on.  It's also worth noting that our fire bombing (also in Germany) killed far more than the two atom bombs, so yeah.  I don't know.  It happened and it's the timeline we're on.  I'll leave the what ifs to alternate history folks I guess.
 
2020-08-09 1:41:12 PM  

shadow01: And how do you propose to enforce such a ban?


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-09 1:44:32 PM  
img0.etsystatic.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-09 1:45:25 PM  
Can we ban nationalist Shinto death cults, too?

I will care what Japan has to say about nuclear weapons when they recognize their role in it.  I want to see an apology issued to China, Indonesia, and the Philippines for what happened there.   I want to see an apology issued to allied POWs for their treatment at their hands.   I want to see the names of war criminals removed from their temples.

When I see that, then we can have a conversation about how bad they were treated.  Until then, they're lucky we didn't nuke them even more.
 
2020-08-09 1:45:50 PM  

shadow01: And how do you propose to enforce such a ban?


realclearworld.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-09 1:49:29 PM  
There's not really a way to get rid of nukes without a massive increase in international cooperation - an international body that would have to be a de facto world government, even if not in name.

Of course, a global government would inherent the characteristics of its constituents, and I have no desire to have the world be run by a body combining the worst aspects of American, Chinese, Indian, Brazilian, and Middle-Eastern politics.

Therefore, I propose that we unite together as one planet to invade New Zealand and force them to rule the Earth. Their defense force has like 15,000 active-duty personnel and they banned nukes a long time ago, so we should be able to get them to surrender pretty quickly, at which point sorting out this mess becomes their problem.
 
2020-08-09 1:49:51 PM  
Know what was worse than the atom bombs? Tokyo fire raids, carpet bombing

Nukes are convenient. Mankind perfected death and destruction with the invention of planes and bombs
 
2020-08-09 1:49:54 PM  

Rent Party: I will care what Japan has to say about nuclear weapons when they recognize their role in it.


Their role was that of a victim.
 
2020-08-09 1:52:12 PM  
That's a great idea, and we should get started right away. The US will go last.
 
2020-08-09 1:52:41 PM  

pup.socket: Rent Party: I will care what Japan has to say about nuclear weapons when they recognize their role in it.

Their role was that of a victim.


Yeah, no.  Their roll was that of an aggressive, racist, nationalistic expansive power.
 
2020-08-09 1:54:43 PM  
Every country should have nukes. It's peace through MAD.

I call it the nuclear paradox:

Those who don't have them must get them. Those who have them can't use them.
 
2020-08-09 1:54:50 PM  

pup.socket: Rent Party: I will care what Japan has to say about nuclear weapons when they recognize their role in it.

Their role was that of a victim.


Their role was that of a combatant that was prepared to resist defeat at any cost.
 
2020-08-09 1:57:03 PM  

shadow01: And how do you propose to enforce such a ban?


I would say have a kid send  a letter to the U.N. and bring up Superman.

But, there are many problems with this theory.

1) Superman IV was fiction
2) Our bloated "Lex Luthor" is dismantling the post office, caused via lax reaction to the plague to shut down schools, and haven't replaced the nuclear treaties the where formed in the climate of the Cold War
 
2020-08-09 1:57:19 PM  

nekom: ArkAngel: Using the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives. There were elements commanding the Japanese military that literally wanted to sacrifice the entire Japanese populous rather than surrender (I'm looking at you General Anami Korechika). There's a reason we are still handing out Purple Hearts manufactured in 1945 for Operation Downfall (the planned invasion of Japan) even now.

Whether or not it was justified is going to be argued by historians until the end of time.  I've even heard the argument that it saved many Japanese lives as well and while I'm not sure if that's true I can't flatly dismiss it.  An invasion of their home island given their dedication and resolve at the time would have been devastating to both sides, that much I think we can all agree on.  It's also worth noting that our fire bombing (also in Germany) killed far more than the two atom bombs, so yeah.  I don't know.  It happened and it's the timeline we're on.  I'll leave the what ifs to alternate history folks I guess.


It's worse than that. If the battle for Japan ended up wiping them out then the largest population of living Japanese people would be in America - in concentration camps, held under lock and key and guarded by men with machine guns in the country that destroyed their country and culture and killed their families.
 
2020-08-09 1:58:36 PM  
Trump and Putin have been talking about expanding their nuclear arsenals.
 
2020-08-09 1:59:59 PM  

nekom: ArkAngel: Using the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives. There were elements commanding the Japanese military that literally wanted to sacrifice the entire Japanese populous rather than surrender (I'm looking at you General Anami Korechika). There's a reason we are still handing out Purple Hearts manufactured in 1945 for Operation Downfall (the planned invasion of Japan) even now.

Whether or not it was justified is going to be argued by historians until the end of time.  I've even heard the argument that it saved many Japanese lives as well and while I'm not sure if that's true I can't flatly dismiss it.  An invasion of their home island given their dedication and resolve at the time would have been devastating to both sides, that much I think we can all agree on.  It's also worth noting that our fire bombing (also in Germany) killed far more than the two atom bombs, so yeah.  I don't know.  It happened and it's the timeline we're on.  I'll leave the what ifs to alternate history folks I guess.


Famine is something that doesn't get mentioned in these discussions as often as it should.  Japanese government records from the summer of 1945 show that they expected over a million of their people to die of hunger if the war continued into the winter.  That was just the Home Islands, the Japanese had stripped their occupied territories bare in order to feed their own people causing famines there.  People were dying in droves all across the Japanese empire even without being anywhere near a bomb or a bullet.  The war needed to end as soon as possible.
 
2020-08-09 2:01:17 PM  

pup.socket: Rent Party: I will care what Japan has to say about nuclear weapons when they recognize their role in it.

Their role was that of a victim.


Don't start no shiat won't be no shiat.

/They started shiat.
 
2020-08-09 2:01:39 PM  

nekom: ArkAngel: Using the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives. There were elements commanding the Japanese military that literally wanted to sacrifice the entire Japanese populous rather than surrender (I'm looking at you General Anami Korechika). There's a reason we are still handing out Purple Hearts manufactured in 1945 for Operation Downfall (the planned invasion of Japan) even now.

Whether or not it was justified is going to be argued by historians until the end of time.  I've even heard the argument that it saved many Japanese lives as well and while I'm not sure if that's true I can't flatly dismiss it.  An invasion of their home island given their dedication and resolve at the time would have been devastating to both sides, that much I think we can all agree on.  It's also worth noting that our fire bombing (also in Germany) killed far more than the two atom bombs, so yeah.  I don't know.  It happened and it's the timeline we're on.  I'll leave the what ifs to alternate history folks I guess.


The war department estimates at the time put Japanese losses in the 10+ million range and american at 1.5+ million. You have to remember they were willing to kill themselves rather than surrender, military and civilian both.
 
2020-08-09 2:14:28 PM  
ladygeekgirl.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-09 2:15:56 PM  
Armed societies are polite societies; I'd like every nation to have at least 2 intercontinental ballistic missiles for use as deterrents.
 
2020-08-09 2:17:46 PM  

nekom: We absolutely should get rid of them all but that genie simply isn't going back in the bottle I'm afraid.


We absolutely should not ban them (as if that were even possible) unless you peaceniks want to go back to the days of huge conscript armies killing each other by the millions every decade or two.
 
2020-08-09 2:20:55 PM  

pup.socket: Rent Party: I will care what Japan has to say about nuclear weapons when they recognize their role in it.

Their role was that of a victim.


Victim in a war war of aggression they started?

Do you really think they were just minding their own business in 1945 and we decided to nuke them for no reason?
 
2020-08-09 2:22:01 PM  
A sensible first step would be for the two world powers that have enough nuclear bombs to end humanity several times over to secure and drastically reduce their arsenals. You don't have to have ability to "overkill" every human being on the planet several times over to have an effective deterrent. That can even be done unilaterally.

To abolish nuclear weapons, which will be required to ensure humanity's existence over the long term, populations are going to have to force their governments to do it. This project is intrinsically linked to fight for democracy around the globe.
 
2020-08-09 2:24:01 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: pup.socket: Rent Party: I will care what Japan has to say about nuclear weapons when they recognize their role in it.

Their role was that of a victim.

Don't start no shiat won't be no shiat.

/They started shiat.


And if we exclusively attacked military targets, you'd have a point.
 
2020-08-09 2:24:16 PM  
I'm sure the US would love everyone else to denuclearize.
 
2020-08-09 2:25:47 PM  
Would you rather ...

Be a Jew in a Nazi concentration camp in WWII
Be an American with Japanese heritage detained in a camp in WWII
Be a Guatemalan detained in an American immigration camp in 2014
 
2020-08-09 2:25:56 PM  

g.fro: pup.socket: Rent Party: I will care what Japan has to say about nuclear weapons when they recognize their role in it.

Their role was that of a victim.

Victim in a war war of aggression they started?

Do you really think they were just minding their own business in 1945 and we decided to nuke them for no reason?


Eh ... i've heard before that they probably would have surrendered anyway without being bombed since the soviets were about to turn their gaze at them now that they were done with the nazis. I don't know how true that is but if it's the case it makes it sounds like bombing a bunch of civilians was, well, a war crime.
 
2020-08-09 2:26:04 PM  
Sure thing, you destroy all of yours first.
 
2020-08-09 2:26:35 PM  
 
2020-08-09 2:27:13 PM  
You'd have to spend soooooo much more on conventional weapons and armies, generally, I think. And I have no idea how you "ban" a technology in a practical or plausible way. I mean, chemical weapons are technically banned, but....
 
2020-08-09 2:28:29 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: There's not really a way to get rid of nukes without a massive increase in international cooperation - an international body that would have to be a de facto world government, even if not in name.

Of course, a global government would inherent the characteristics of its constituents, and I have no desire to have the world be run by a body combining the worst aspects of American, Chinese, Indian, Brazilian, and Middle-Eastern politics.

Therefore, I propose that we unite together as one planet to invade New Zealand and force them to rule the Earth. Their defense force has like 15,000 active-duty personnel and they banned nukes a long time ago, so we should be able to get them to surrender pretty quickly, at which point sorting out this mess becomes their problem.


Countries like New Zealand benefit from the US Naval presence in the South Pacific.   Let's see how New Zealand is doing when it is renamed New Hong Kong.
 
2020-08-09 2:28:42 PM  

lifeslammer: Know what was worse than the atom bombs? Tokyo fire raids, carpet bombing

Nukes are convenient. Mankind perfected death and destruction with the invention of planes and bombs

Desert Hawk Starfighter enters the chat

 
2020-08-09 2:29:06 PM  
OK

You start.
 
2020-08-09 2:30:06 PM  

The Googles Do Nothing: Martian_Astronomer: There's not really a way to get rid of nukes without a massive increase in international cooperation - an international body that would have to be a de facto world government, even if not in name.

Of course, a global government would inherent the characteristics of its constituents, and I have no desire to have the world be run by a body combining the worst aspects of American, Chinese, Indian, Brazilian, and Middle-Eastern politics.

Therefore, I propose that we unite together as one planet to invade New Zealand and force them to rule the Earth. Their defense force has like 15,000 active-duty personnel and they banned nukes a long time ago, so we should be able to get them to surrender pretty quickly, at which point sorting out this mess becomes their problem.

Countries like New Zealand benefit from the US Naval presence in the South Pacific.   Let's see how New Zealand is doing when it is renamed New Hong Kong.


you realize hong kong was actually part of china right? Like the british took it from china then gave it back. New Zealand is not part of china.

But you know there IS a country out there with an affinity for colonizing pacific islands, maybe NZ should watch out for them.
 
2020-08-09 2:32:20 PM  

shadow01: And how do you propose to enforce such a ban?


Fark user imageView Full Size

Oh Superman where are you now?
 
2020-08-09 2:32:28 PM  
Your timing sucks, Nagasaki.

Our president has ordered new nuclear weapons, will "never, ever" rule out using nuclear weapons, and indeed asked about getting more use out of the ones we currently have, FFS.

Russia, likewise, is agitating for a new Cold War, even as other countries race to get nuclear weapons emplaced.

The time for that isn't now, not with morons and warmongers in power. Indeed, I suspect our possession of nuclear weapons is the very Gaian bottleneck we may need (or fail) to negotiate should we want to continue as a species beyond the next century.
 
2020-08-09 2:33:02 PM  

Biohazard Banana Suit: The Googles Do Nothing: Martian_Astronomer: There's not really a way to get rid of nukes without a massive increase in international cooperation - an international body that would have to be a de facto world government, even if not in name.

Of course, a global government would inherent the characteristics of its constituents, and I have no desire to have the world be run by a body combining the worst aspects of American, Chinese, Indian, Brazilian, and Middle-Eastern politics.

Therefore, I propose that we unite together as one planet to invade New Zealand and force them to rule the Earth. Their defense force has like 15,000 active-duty personnel and they banned nukes a long time ago, so we should be able to get them to surrender pretty quickly, at which point sorting out this mess becomes their problem.

Countries like New Zealand benefit from the US Naval presence in the South Pacific.   Let's see how New Zealand is doing when it is renamed New Hong Kong.

you realize hong kong was actually part of china right? Like the british took it from china then gave it back. New Zealand is not part of china.

But you know there IS a country out there with an affinity for colonizing pacific islands, maybe NZ should watch out for them.


England?  The people ruling New Zealand shouldn't even be there.
 
2020-08-09 2:35:00 PM  

shadow01: And how do you propose to enforce such a ban?


We can threaten anyone who doesn't comply with nuclear weap... oh damn.
 
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