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(The Hill)   Moderna to give people a "gift" and charge "well below value" for a dose of its $1 billion taxpayer funded COVID vaccine   (thehill.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Federal government of the United States, Vaccine, company's CEO, congressional hearing, Biotechnology, Last week, Vaccination, Price  
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2401 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 07 Aug 2020 at 2:05 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-07 1:46:58 PM  
That's great, considering it's going to be practically worthless as a vaccine.
 
2020-08-07 1:56:48 PM  
"Moderna recently confirmed to Axios that federal money makes up 100 percent of the funding for its COVID-19 vaccine program."

Wow, how charitable of them to only gouge us slightly for something that cost them literally nothing.
 
2020-08-07 2:11:23 PM  
Remember, it's not socialism when you're giving free money to corporations.
 
2020-08-07 2:12:13 PM  
Tax payers: Working on a vaccine? Shut up and take my money!
Also tax payers: You've created something you think is a vaccine with out tax dollars? Shut up and take more money!
 
2020-08-07 2:12:48 PM  

special20: Tax payers: Working on a vaccine? Shut up and take my money!
Also tax payers: You've created something you think is a vaccine with OUR tax dollars? Shut up and take more money!


Completely different intention that....
 
2020-08-07 2:13:18 PM  
I don't see what would be so scary about nationalizing industries that we already bankroll.
 
2020-08-07 2:15:19 PM  
I thought that said Madonna, which still makes sense.
Ermahgerd, it's Moderna!
 
2020-08-07 2:15:23 PM  
It better be more than 50% effective. I dunno WTF Fauci is talking about.
 
2020-08-07 2:15:33 PM  
Nationalize them.
 
2020-08-07 2:18:04 PM  

Fasces Breaker: It better be more than 50% effective. I dunno WTF Fauci is talking about.


50% effective plus distancing and masks would be more than enough to bring Covid under control in the US (and eradicated in first world countries).
 
2020-08-07 2:19:12 PM  

Bowen: Fasces Breaker: It better be more than 50% effective. I dunno WTF Fauci is talking about.

50% effective plus distancing and masks would be more than enough to bring Covid under control in the US (and eradicated in first world countries).


So no dice in the US
 
2020-08-07 2:20:11 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I don't see what would be so scary about nationalizing industries that we already bankroll.


The US joining the civilized nations of the world who see health care as a right rather than a privilege?
We can dream...

Pharma gives a phenomenal amount to politicians in campaign contributions.
Now, why would that be?
 
2020-08-07 2:22:50 PM  
How many other companies around the world are making a vaccine? I know in the US probably won't get any vaccine other than the one from Moderna.
 
2020-08-07 2:22:56 PM  
By the time care providers and everyone who touches it on the way to the consumer add a few percentage points to cover their retirement, liability insurance, shipping, storage, real estate, staff costs, and everything else, it will be a grand a shot if paid cash, and twice that to insurance companies.
 
2020-08-07 2:23:37 PM  

Fasces Breaker: It better be more than 50% effective. I dunno WTF Fauci is talking about.


Three vaccines working in different ways at 50% effectiveness would combine for 87.5% effectiveness (assuming normalized distribution).  So even if the Moderna, Oxford, and German vaccines are at only 50%, a combined dose of all three confer effective immunity on a population.
 
2020-08-07 2:26:13 PM  
Tax payers already paid for it, if it's a single cent more than free it's a bigger scam than libertarians claim roads to be.
 
2020-08-07 2:26:14 PM  
Zevon's Evil Twin:

Pharma gives a phenomenal amount to politicians in campaign contributions.
Now, why would that be?


They're just a bunch of really nice people ??
 
2020-08-07 2:30:14 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I don't see what would be so scary about nationalizing industries that we already bankroll.


See Venezuela.
 
2020-08-07 2:31:01 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Bowen: Fasces Breaker: It better be more than 50% effective. I dunno WTF Fauci is talking about.

50% effective plus distancing and masks would be more than enough to bring Covid under control in the US (and eradicated in first world countries).

So no dice in the US


Ha! So clever!
 
2020-08-07 2:35:17 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: HotWingConspiracy: Bowen: Fasces Breaker: It better be more than 50% effective. I dunno WTF Fauci is talking about.

50% effective plus distancing and masks would be more than enough to bring Covid under control in the US (and eradicated in first world countries).

So no dice in the US

Ha! So clever!


I was going for depressing.
 
2020-08-07 2:35:56 PM  

demonfaerie: How many other companies around the world are making a vaccine? I know in the US probably won't get any vaccine other than the one from Moderna.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2​0​20/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker​.html says there are more than 165 vaccine candidates under development with 28 in human trials.
 
2020-08-07 2:35:58 PM  
Again.

THERE WILL NOT BE A F*CKING VACCINE ANYTIME BEFORE 2022 - 2023 IF EVER UNLESS THERE IS DIVINE INTERVENTION INVOLVED.

JFC. QUIT GIVING MONEY AWAY TO NOT MAKE A VACCINE THAT PROBABLY WILL NEVER EXIST.
 
2020-08-07 2:36:17 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: HotWingConspiracy: I don't see what would be so scary about nationalizing industries that we already bankroll.

See Venezuela.


Which industries did they put taxpayers on the hook for?
 
2020-08-07 2:38:00 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: bobbyjoebobby: HotWingConspiracy: Bowen: Fasces Breaker: It better be more than 50% effective. I dunno WTF Fauci is talking about.

50% effective plus distancing and masks would be more than enough to bring Covid under control in the US (and eradicated in first world countries).

So no dice in the US

Ha! So clever!

I was going for depressing.


And.... Accurate!
 
2020-08-07 2:39:55 PM  

psilocyberguy: Again.

THERE WILL NOT BE A F*CKING VACCINE ANYTIME BEFORE 2022 - 2023 IF EVER UNLESS THERE IS DIVINE INTERVENTION INVOLVED.

JFC. QUIT GIVING MONEY AWAY TO NOT MAKE A VACCINE THAT PROBABLY WILL NEVER EXIST.


"Stop spending so much money to speed up vaccine development, because past vaccines have traditionally taken longer to develop when we didn't spend as much money on them"? I can't argue with that logic.
 
2020-08-07 2:49:01 PM  

Ivo Shandor: demonfaerie: How many other companies around the world are making a vaccine? I know in the US probably won't get any vaccine other than the one from Moderna.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/20​20/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker​.html says there are more than 165 vaccine candidates under development with 28 in human trials.


I see Moderna is already in phase III, and Pfizer is in phase II/III. So the US may see those two vaccines, but unless Biden gets into office, we probably won't see other options. That is not a lot of competition to drive the prices down, but the vaccine should be farking free. I guess I will get whatever vaccine Mayo Clinic approves.
 
2020-08-07 2:49:12 PM  

Alebak: Tax payers already paid for it, if it's a single cent more than free it's a bigger scam than libertarians claim roads to be.


They said that it makes up 100% of cost funding, but no business can afford to operate only at cost. Why can't they charge $10? 10$ a dose seems reasonable.
 
2020-08-07 2:49:23 PM  

psilocyberguy: Again.

THERE WILL NOT BE A F*CKING VACCINE ANYTIME BEFORE 2022 - 2023 IF EVER UNLESS THERE IS DIVINE INTERVENTION INVOLVED.

JFC. QUIT GIVING MONEY AWAY TO NOT MAKE A VACCINE THAT PROBABLY WILL NEVER EXIST.



/deep breath

WHY WOULD IT TAKE DIVINE INTERVENTION TO CREATE A VACCINE?
 
2020-08-07 2:51:25 PM  
WTF is a "low volume customer"?
 
2020-08-07 2:52:20 PM  
FTFA: During a congressional hearing last month, executives from Pfizer and Moderna would not commit to price their vaccines at-cost.

If companies only get paid at cost, there is no incentive for them to participate in the future, since there will be no profit. They shouldn't gouge, but they should be making something. $5 to $10 above cost per dose seems fine to me.
 
2020-08-07 2:54:04 PM  

RainDawg: WTF is a "low volume customer"?


A distributor that isn't buying a high volume. Like say 100-500 doses. Typically higher volume gets you a lower cost per item. There's a price break at a volume cutoff to encourage volume buying.
 
2020-08-07 2:54:32 PM  

Ivo Shandor: psilocyberguy: Again.

THERE WILL NOT BE A F*CKING VACCINE ANYTIME BEFORE 2022 - 2023 IF EVER UNLESS THERE IS DIVINE INTERVENTION INVOLVED.

JFC. QUIT GIVING MONEY AWAY TO NOT MAKE A VACCINE THAT PROBABLY WILL NEVER EXIST.

"Stop spending so much money to speed up vaccine development, because past vaccines have traditionally taken longer to develop when we didn't spend as much money on them"? I can't argue with that logic.


Can't get that sweet government grant money every year for 10 years if you develop things faster

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-07 2:56:05 PM  
The value of a human life is considered to be about $10 million. All told, including asymptomatic and mild cases, you probably have about a 1% chance of dying from COVID-19. If the vaccine has a 50% chance of of success, the market value of the vaccine is about $50,000.

You're getting a bargain, if you did but know it.
 
2020-08-07 3:00:26 PM  
This is a direct result of closing the bars.  Your bartender could give you one for only $28.
 
2020-08-07 3:01:17 PM  
30 bucks not to get covid

I'm good with that
 
2020-08-07 3:01:23 PM  

Enigmamf: The value of a human life is considered to be about $10 million. All told, including asymptomatic and mild cases, you probably have about a 1% chance of dying from COVID-19. If the vaccine has a 50% chance of of success, the market value of the vaccine is about $50,000.

You're getting a bargain, if you did but know it.


In the civilized world, health care is not treated as an optional personal  investment, since people do not choose to get sick in the first place. I doubt the NHS, for example, will head for that price point, nor should they.
 
2020-08-07 3:04:27 PM  

psilocyberguy: Again.

THERE WILL NOT BE A F*CKING VACCINE ANYTIME BEFORE 2022 - 2023 IF EVER UNLESS THERE IS DIVINE INTERVENTION INVOLVED.

JFC. QUIT GIVING MONEY AWAY TO NOT MAKE A VACCINE THAT PROBABLY WILL NEVER EXIST.


Yeah, but their cured AIDS cancer and herpes. Oh wait...
 
2020-08-07 3:12:30 PM  
Ctrl-F "gift"

0 matches.

Explain yourself subby.
 
2020-08-07 3:15:58 PM  
If a private company takes money from the government to make a vaccine, the rights to that vaccine should belong to the government. (exist in the public domain for US citizens). I bet the low ass IQ government officials that drew up the contract let them keep the rights. If you are under 115, you shouldn't be allowed to serve in high positions of government.
 
2020-08-07 3:23:37 PM  

RainDawg: WTF is a "low volume customer"?


According to TFA, low millions of doses.  Moderna apparently has not announced how higher-volume pricing would scale.

Contrast to another vaccine, where the US has dibs on 100 million doses for $1.95B ($19.50/dose).
 
2020-08-07 3:26:01 PM  

Somacandra: Enigmamf: The value of a human life is considered to be about $10 million. All told, including asymptomatic and mild cases, you probably have about a 1% chance of dying from COVID-19. If the vaccine has a 50% chance of of success, the market value of the vaccine is about $50,000.

You're getting a bargain, if you did but know it.

In the civilized world, health care is not treated as an optional personal  investment, since people do not choose to get sick in the first place. I doubt the NHS, for example, will head for that price point, nor should they.


Do I really need slashies for readers to taste the sardonicism dripping from those lines?

Poe's law, I guess...
 
2020-08-07 3:33:48 PM  

OldJames: If a private company takes money from the government to make a vaccine, the rights to that vaccine should belong to the government. (exist in the public domain for US citizens). I bet the low ass IQ government officials that drew up the contract let them keep the rights. If you are under 115, you shouldn't be allowed to serve in high positions of government.


Adorable.
 
2020-08-07 3:37:34 PM  
It's probably not going to work well for obese people anyway.  aka  42% of U.S. adults.  The rest of the world will be fine.

Americans might want to consider that now more than ever is the time to put down the doritoes and tub of ice cream and go for a walk instead of demanding that somebody else do something.
 
2020-08-07 3:49:35 PM  

nmrsnr: "Moderna recently confirmed to Axios that federal money makes up 100 percent of the funding for its COVID-19 vaccine program."

Wow, how charitable of them to only gouge us slightly for something that cost them literally nothing.


Nationalize big pharma.
 
2020-08-07 3:50:43 PM  

Somacandra: FTFA: During a congressional hearing last month, executives from Pfizer and Moderna would not commit to price their vaccines at-cost.

If companies only get paid at cost, there is no incentive for them to participate in the future, since there will be no profit. They shouldn't gouge, but they should be making something. $5 to $10 above cost per dose seems fine to me.


Why should we, the US taxpayers foot 100% of the risk and then give them another $3.5-7B in profits? In what world does that seem just? I think they're getting a huge advantage by having their mRNA vaccine technology proven out, their manufacturing capacity subsidized, etc.
 
2020-08-07 3:51:56 PM  

Enigmamf: Somacandra: Enigmamf: The value of a human life is considered to be about $10 million. All told, including asymptomatic and mild cases, you probably have about a 1% chance of dying from COVID-19. If the vaccine has a 50% chance of of success, the market value of the vaccine is about $50,000.

You're getting a bargain, if you did but know it.

In the civilized world, health care is not treated as an optional personal  investment, since people do not choose to get sick in the first place. I doubt the NHS, for example, will head for that price point, nor should they.

Do I really need slashies for readers to taste the sardonicism dripping from those lines?

Poe's law, I guess...


You shouldn't need them, but what you said jokingly is precisely what the pharmaceutical industry means when they talk about the "value" of a treatment. Moderna chose the word intentionally and carefully. They are not comparing the price to cost, either manufacturing cost or net cost including development, they're comparing it to value, which I'm sure they consider to be at least five figures.
 
2020-08-07 3:52:49 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: It's probably not going to work well for obese people anyway.  aka  42% of U.S. adults.  The rest of the world will be fine.

Americans might want to consider that now more than ever is the time to put down the doritoes and tub of ice cream and go for a walk instead of demanding that somebody else do something.


Obesity is a worldwide problem.
 
2020-08-07 4:01:05 PM  

OldJames: If a private company takes money from the government to make a vaccine, the rights to that vaccine should belong to the government. (exist in the public domain for US citizens). I bet the low ass IQ government officials that drew up the contract let them keep the rights. If you are under 115, you shouldn't be allowed to serve in high positions of government.


The U.S. government subsidizes a vast array of science research.  Everything from cancer treatments, to solar and wind energy, to supercomputers, to new high yield crops.  One third of all patents annually come from federally funded research.  This is nothing new.

The problem is few people want congress actually controlling science.  Mainly because no congressperson even comes close to actually understanding any of it.  It would probably work out about as well as Venezuela trying to centrally control farm production.   (Hint: mass starvation.)
 
2020-08-07 4:09:09 PM  

robodog: Somacandra: FTFA: During a congressional hearing last month, executives from Pfizer and Moderna would not commit to price their vaccines at-cost.

If companies only get paid at cost, there is no incentive for them to participate in the future, since there will be no profit. They shouldn't gouge, but they should be making something. $5 to $10 above cost per dose seems fine to me.

Why should we, the US taxpayers foot 100% of the risk and then give them another $3.5-7B in profits? In what world does that seem just? I think they're getting a huge advantage by having their mRNA vaccine technology proven out, their manufacturing capacity subsidized, etc.


When the vaccine comes out the pandemic ends.  No more lockdowns, no more riots, no more double standards. The entertainment, service, and vacation industries see a massive boom. Life returns to normal and brings massive social, economic, and political benefits with it.

That's what the government is paying for and what people would gladly pay for.
If the company can make a profit then it's that much more incentive. Not just to take the risk of being involved, but to be the first to develop the cure and bring it to mass market.
 
2020-08-07 4:17:58 PM  

The Third Man: Fasces Breaker: It better be more than 50% effective. I dunno WTF Fauci is talking about.

Three vaccines working in different ways at 50% effectiveness would combine for 87.5% effectiveness (assuming normalized distribution).  So even if the Moderna, Oxford, and German vaccines are at only 50%, a combined dose of all three confer effective immunity on a population.


Not sure where this 50% number has come from, but does your 87.5% assume 100% vaccination rate? 67% flu vaccine rate in US would be considered spectacular.

Not sure, but did you calculate 100% of population with each person getting three vaccines? In the typical fashion of taking only one vaccine, the effectiveness would still only be 50%.  Still better than nothing in a SIR or SEIR model. Someone with more patience and time can find parameter estimates and plug them in to find out how much better
 
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