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(Five Thirty-Eight)   "1 out of 4 Republicans said that democracy is a 'very bad' or 'fairly bad' way to govern the country compared to just four percent of Democrats"   (fivethirtyeight.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Democracy, Juniper Simonis screams, American scientist, Politics, Political science, Political philosophy, Last month, federal agents  
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1996 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Aug 2020 at 4:50 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-06 2:58:35 AM  
Yeah? That seems to fit well with the fact that over 75% of them are okay with donnie and are fine with his close relationship with Putin. They're clearly more of a totalitarian regime crowd.
 
2020-08-06 3:33:43 AM  
I'd say closer to 33 percent.
 
2020-08-06 4:19:42 AM  
And they do there very best to prove it by voting for the worst people in the universe.
 
2020-08-06 4:35:10 AM  
It's the worst possible form of government, except for all the others.
 
2020-08-06 4:51:26 AM  
WTF would americans know about democracy?

This is like asking Arkansans about dental care.
 
2020-08-06 4:54:24 AM  
How would we know either way?

Did we start actually having democracy at some point?
 
2020-08-06 4:55:50 AM  
Considering how things are going and who is president right now, they might be correct.

Of course, this isn't quite the problem with a well-educated populace capable of critical thinking, but those same Republicans aren't about to allow that to emerge.
 
2020-08-06 5:00:42 AM  
"Democracy is the worst form of Government" - Winston Churchill, two time prime minister of Great Britain for 9 years.

Can you really blame them for viewing democracy as 'very bad'?  Democracy has led to a lot of 'real gems' in all sorts of office over the years.

/"... except for all the other forms which have been tried from time to time" - Winston Churchill
 
2020-08-06 5:05:58 AM  
Are we asking for a friend or are we thinking of trying it ourselves?
 
2020-08-06 5:07:00 AM  

chewd: WTF would americans know about democracy?

This is like asking Arkansans about dental care.


Hey. Grizzly Wintergreen Longcut and Mountain Dew are a form of dental care. Don't discriminate against the South you libby
 
2020-08-06 5:08:32 AM  
Our form of "democracy" (do what you want, don't give a flying fark about others) has worked out pretty good for Replicants
 
2020-08-06 5:09:03 AM  
Democracy is a pretty shiatty form of representative government, as it lends itself far too easily to demagoguery and succombs to 'least common denominator' kakistocracy. . I'd rather have more of a meritocracy that rewards the best that a nation has to offer...the idea of geniocracy is intriguing, actually, though it inevitably runs into the same question - "who decides the criterion for 'the best'"?
 
2020-08-06 5:09:57 AM  
Oh I get it. The 1 are Libertatians.
 
2020-08-06 5:10:06 AM  
if conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy.
-David Frum
 
2020-08-06 5:14:18 AM  

KiwDaWabbit: Are we asking for a friend or are we thinking of trying it ourselves?


I say we go all in and try it.  Ballot initiatives for who we should lob some warheads at.
 
2020-08-06 5:17:55 AM  

sithon: I'd say closer to 33 percent.


Bingo. That's Trunp's base, right there.
 
2020-08-06 5:18:43 AM  
Did you notice how decent people in the USA have long thought of themselves as American first?

Today's so-called conservatives think of themselves as Republicans first.

/Is it ironic their slogan is America First?
//Or simply the shamefully manipulative opposite day bullshiat that's their stock-in-trade?
 
2020-08-06 5:20:05 AM  
Those who say that Democracy is tyranny, I never did get how they think the leaders ought to be chosen.  Hereditary feudalism?
 
2020-08-06 5:23:48 AM  
I prefer a democratic republic over a straight democracy.  The added filter is good against the sheer dumbassery you see in everyone day to day.
 
2020-08-06 5:24:03 AM  
Well if that is how they feel I hope they don't vote.
 
2020-08-06 5:26:23 AM  

Gr3asy: Did you notice how decent people in the USA have long thought of themselves as American first?


Don't be daft. Let's say another country attacks the USA after we commit some heinous war crimes in their nation.

Conservatives unthinkingly a reflexively will rush to the defence of their country, because they Love Amurca no matter what.

Liberals would take the time to think through the issue and then decide which 'side' to come down upon.

Conservatives are Amurcan* first. Liberals are human first.

/Only applies to their specific definition of Amurcan which generally means rural fourth generation white Christian
 
2020-08-06 5:28:14 AM  

Saiga410: I prefer a democratic republic over a straight democracy.  The added filter is good against the sheer dumbassery you see in everyone day to day.


I used to think that.  Then the Republic part completely failed to stop the current administration.
 
2020-08-06 5:28:43 AM  
I admit I never knew how fragile our democracy was before this tyrant and a gleefully complicit Senate & A.G. Hang in there, R.B.G!
 
2020-08-06 5:28:44 AM  

Shaggy_C: Democracy is a pretty shiatty form of representative government, as it lends itself far too easily to demagoguery and succombs to 'least common denominator' kakistocracy. . I'd rather have more of a meritocracy that rewards the best that a nation has to offer...the idea of geniocracy is intriguing, actually, though it inevitably runs into the same question - "who decides the criterion for 'the best'"?


I still think the lefts current hate for trump is similar to the right's hate for Bill Clinton.  IE Hey you stole our schtick of mindless populism.
 
2020-08-06 5:33:08 AM  

Saiga410: I still think the lefts current hate for trump is similar to the right's hate for Bill Clinton.  IE Hey you stole our schtick of mindless populism.


Politics as sports is the apt metaphor. When a player my team does something underhanded, it's just proof of how badly they want to win and believe in the team. When your team does something underhanded, they are just cheaters who play dirty and should probably be banned from the league.
 
2020-08-06 5:33:42 AM  

Gr3asy: Did you notice how decent people in the USA have long thought of themselves as American first?

Today's so-called conservatives think of themselves as Republicans first.

/Is it ironic their slogan is America First?
//Or simply the shamefully manipulative opposite day bullshiat that's their stock-in-trade?


They think Republicanism is synonymous with Americanism.  Who was the Republican who said some years ago, I think it was during the W administration, "We are America.  These other people [referring to democrats] are not."
 
2020-08-06 5:35:45 AM  

Saiga410: Shaggy_C: Democracy is a pretty shiatty form of representative government, as it lends itself far too easily to demagoguery and succombs to 'least common denominator' kakistocracy. . I'd rather have more of a meritocracy that rewards the best that a nation has to offer...the idea of geniocracy is intriguing, actually, though it inevitably runs into the same question - "who decides the criterion for 'the best'"?

I still think the lefts current hate for trump is similar to the right's hate for Bill Clinton.  IE Hey you stole our schtick of mindless populism.


Or--
And I realize the concept of caring about other people may be foreign to you--

or a lot of us hate him because he has continued to fark up and harm people, most recently culminating in completely failing to respond to a pandemic that other countries have shown is absolutely controllable, despite having more warning than european countries, and his federal government completely squandered the lockdown period.

Those are, granted, only the most recent examples of "shiat he's done that harms other people", mind.
 
2020-08-06 5:37:52 AM  

Saiga410: I prefer a democratic republic over a straight democracy.  The added filter is good against the sheer dumbassery you see in everyone day to day.


I've lived populated areas, and I've lived in areas where acres outnumber people. I don't think giving cows in Kansas more representation than people in cities has worked out well. For either the people or the cows.
 
2020-08-06 5:39:02 AM  
Let's cut to the chase, The GOP has become a Christian Nationalist party, devoted to WASP supremacy and crony capitalism.  If democratic institutions or even democracy itself gets in their way, they will dispose of them to preserve their Christian Nationalist supremacy.
 
2020-08-06 5:40:56 AM  

Shaggy_C: Saiga410: I still think the lefts current hate for trump is similar to the right's hate for Bill Clinton.  IE Hey you stole our schtick of mindless populism.

Politics as sports is the apt metaphor. When a player my team does something underhanded, it's just proof of how badly they want to win and believe in the team. When your team does something underhanded, they are just cheaters who play dirty and should probably be banned from the league.


False equivocation helped get us to this point. No serious good faith critique would lead to the conclusion that they're effectively the same.
 
2020-08-06 5:43:33 AM  
Democracy keeping the rich from being richer, and the poor poorer?

You mean like, checks and balances?

Do tell ...
 
2020-08-06 5:48:01 AM  

Shaggy_C: Saiga410: I still think the lefts current hate for trump is similar to the right's hate for Bill Clinton.  IE Hey you stole our schtick of mindless populism.

Politics as sports is the apt metaphor. When a player my team does something underhanded, it's just proof of how badly they want to win and believe in the team. When your team does something underhanded, they are just cheaters who play dirty and should probably be banned from the league.


I am not sure on the sportsball.  Sports are very fluid on strategy.  Very few teams spend decades perfecting one strategy.  In sports a strategy is usually picked up fast.  The Baltimore chop was picked up league wide after a year.  RPO came to be the next hot thing and receded just as fast.
 
2020-08-06 5:51:38 AM  

KiwDaWabbit: Are we asking for a friend or are we thinking of trying it ourselves?


Fascism, you mean? Yeah, we're trying that on for size. About a quarter or so of Republican voters are ready to give that a go.
 
2020-08-06 5:52:07 AM  
The whole idea of democracy in theory is that politicians should move to meet the people where they are, instead of the people being moved to meet the politicians.

That system is fundamentally broken and corrupted now and I don't know what the way forward is
 
2020-08-06 5:52:56 AM  

DogParkSniper: Saiga410: I prefer a democratic republic over a straight democracy.  The added filter is good against the sheer dumbassery you see in everyone day to day.

I've lived populated areas, and I've lived in areas where acres outnumber people. I don't think giving cows in Kansas more representation than people in cities has worked out well. For either the people or the cows.


That whole line of reasoning fall flat when you look at the demographic representation with just about every WY there is a RI or NH.  At the end it averages which is the boon that is a democratic republic.  Democracy is just waiting for a charismatic leader to turn a country into what y'all think Trumps america is but isnt in reality.
 
2020-08-06 5:57:54 AM  
American democracy seems to be about gradually getting worse year over year through impotent leadership, so hard to blame them for thinking that way.
 
2020-08-06 5:58:28 AM  
The good chunk of the GOP thought democracy was boring when GW was in office. They've been pushing for a Neue Bund for a while now. What's fun are the folks screaming "Freeeeeedom!" while cheering on fascists. It's almost as if they have no idea what or who they're really backing, and gosh are they going to be surprised how quickly they're going to lose a lot of things, "for the good of the nation" after all the cheering stops.
 
2020-08-06 5:59:43 AM  

chewd: WTF would americans know about democracy?

This is like asking Arkansans about dental care.


Hey now, I'll have you know that the toothbrush was invented in Arkansas!

/Anywhere else they would have called it a teethbrush
 
2020-08-06 6:03:26 AM  
Ask those same people if they prefer a Republic.
 
2020-08-06 6:04:18 AM  

Excelsior: chewd: WTF would americans know about democracy?

This is like asking Arkansans about dental care.

Hey now, I'll have you know that the toothbrush was invented in Arkansas!

/Anywhere else they would have called it a teethbrush


i1.wp.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-06 6:17:15 AM  

KiwDaWabbit: False equivocation helped get us to this point. No serious good faith critique would lead to the conclusion that they're effectively the same.


Of course; we're talking about the supporters of the sides here, not the sides themselves. I might even argue that people are far too invested in politics these days - it seems everything has become politicised, based on team allegiance. "Oh no, we can't go to that restaurant, they support Trump!" "I don't wear a mask because that's what the Liberals want you to do."

Having beliefs is fine, voting is fine, but completely tinting your worldview based upon those beliefs is dangerous. And yes, the reality-challenged community (see: Republican supporters) struggles with this significantly more than the rest of us.
 
2020-08-06 6:18:30 AM  

havocmike: The whole idea of democracy in theory is that politicians should move to meet the people where they are, instead of the people being moved to meet the politicians.


Ideally, the politicians have actual leadership skill. Then you can be responsive to the needs of the people and also guide them away from the stupid things they want sometimes, like no taxes at all and freedom to beat minorities without consequence.

havocmike: That system is fundamentally broken and corrupted now and I don't know what the way forward is


Yeah, it's a bit of a sticky wicket.
 
2020-08-06 6:24:07 AM  
Well of course.

If Democracy won't let you impose your inflexible, wrong-headed, fundamentalist beliefs, then the next logical course of action is to get rid of Democracy.
 
2020-08-06 6:28:42 AM  

lj1330: Ask those same people if they prefer a Republic.


Or more specifically, a Democratic Republic.
 
2020-08-06 6:44:09 AM  
To what extent should a political party based on attacking the principles of democracy be allowed to participate in a democratic republic? What remedy is there for such a party gaining control and then intentionally sabotaging the basic mechanisms of democracy?

We are very, very close to needing specific answers to these questions, if we want to continue functioning in a manner recognizable as a first world country.
 
2020-08-06 6:45:28 AM  
Good thing we dont have a democracy.  Just look at the House of Lord's for proof of that.
 
2020-08-06 6:46:53 AM  
I guess I'd think the same if my party was heading to permanent minority status.

Then again, their opinion is treason.
 
2020-08-06 6:55:32 AM  
"WHEN HIGHLY COMMITTED PARTIES BELIEVE STRONGLY [IN] THINGS THAT THEY CANNOT ACHIEVE DEMOCRATICALLY, THEY DON'T GIVE UP THEIR BELIEFS - THEY GIVE UP ON DEMOCRACY"

David Frum, Jan 2018

Love him, hate, never heard of him, it looks like his comment is demonstrating a high degree of prescience.
 
2020-08-06 7:02:44 AM  
Some think I'm being hyperbolic when I say conservatives are ant-American.

I'm not exaggerating.  At all.
 
2020-08-06 7:06:06 AM  

Shaggy_C: Democracy is a pretty shiatty form of representative government, as it lends itself far too easily to demagoguery and succombs to 'least common denominator' kakistocracy. . I'd rather have more of a meritocracy that rewards the best that a nation has to offer...the idea of geniocracy is intriguing, actually, though it inevitably runs into the same question - "who decides the criterion for 'the best'"?


Thus the old cliche about it being the worst system except for all the others.
There's reason cliches become cliches, you know.
 
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