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(Toronto Star)   BC Appeal Court deems woman's requested job title to be too cool   (thestar.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Law, Appeal, B.C. Appeal Court, Pashta MaryMoon, Human rights, lower-court ruling, personal non-commercial use, three-member Appeal Court panel  
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5170 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Aug 2020 at 2:31 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-08-05 7:45:31 PM  
MaryMoon claimed she had been providing "death-care services" for more than 40 years and her work has nothing to do with delivering babies.

So that's why she'll outlive all the septuagenarians...

dead eye dick- new age girl.mp4
Youtube TL5ofVC0EDQ
 
2020-08-05 8:32:42 PM  
Oh sure, but "BC-Sanctioned Glory Hole Inspector" is fine?
 
2020-08-05 10:02:22 PM  
So...is Sandwoman available?

Or Shinagami? Like Rinne Rokudo?
 
2020-08-05 10:48:00 PM  
Death Doula has a nice ring...
 
2020-08-06 1:51:35 AM  
She should appeal to the AD court. That ruling is positively Stone Age.
 
2020-08-06 1:51:50 AM  
But why male models?
 
2020-08-06 2:37:39 AM  
The term is Reaper. Get used to it.
 
2020-08-06 2:38:22 AM  
Death Midwife is now the new name of my amateur Megadeth/Four Non-Blondes mashup cover band.
 
2020-08-06 2:44:18 AM  
Did anyone figure out what her job actually is? I am a little disappointed that it wasn't at planned parenthood, but I am getting therapy for that side of me.

I just want to meet such a gallows person!
 
2020-08-06 2:51:26 AM  
I'm a little confused as to what death care services are. Is it more of a hospice or is it the funeral home aspect?

I think Acolyte of Charon would be a better term than death midwife anyway.
 
2020-08-06 2:51:59 AM  

uttertosh: Did anyone figure out what her job actually is? I am a little disappointed that it wasn't at planned parenthood, but I am getting therapy for that side of me.

I just want to meet such a gallows person!


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti​c​le-7540997/Woman-wins-court-battle-cal​l-death-midwife.html

Fark user imageView Full Size


Basically she could just call herself an "independent funeral consultant."
 
2020-08-06 2:55:36 AM  

Candygram4Mongo: uttertosh: Did anyone figure out what her job actually is? I am a little disappointed that it wasn't at planned parenthood, but I am getting therapy for that side of me.

I just want to meet such a gallows person!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic​le-7540997/Woman-wins-court-battle-cal​l-death-midwife.html

[Fark user image image 422x750]

Basically she could just call herself an "independent funeral consultant."


D'aaaww!! She's a sweetheart!

I now agree that Death Doula should be suggested to her. She is doing a caring job, imho.
 
2020-08-06 3:02:54 AM  

Candygram4Mongo: uttertosh: Did anyone figure out what her job actually is? I am a little disappointed that it wasn't at planned parenthood, but I am getting therapy for that side of me.

I just want to meet such a gallows person!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic​le-7540997/Woman-wins-court-battle-cal​l-death-midwife.html

[Fark user image 422x750]

Basically she could just call herself an "independent funeral consultant."


I'd go with death consultant.

/would look pretty cool on a business card I think
 
2020-08-06 3:08:01 AM  
Go with Afterlife Midwife instead
 
2020-08-06 3:08:54 AM  
At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..
 
2020-08-06 3:10:20 AM  

uttertosh: Candygram4Mongo: uttertosh: Did anyone figure out what her job actually is? I am a little disappointed that it wasn't at planned parenthood, but I am getting therapy for that side of me.

I just want to meet such a gallows person!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic​le-7540997/Woman-wins-court-battle-cal​l-death-midwife.html

[Fark user image image 422x750]

Basically she could just call herself an "independent funeral consultant."

D'aaaww!! She's a sweetheart!

I now agree that Death Doula should be suggested to her. She is doing a caring job, imho.


She seems like a really nice person, which I guess is needed in her line of work. Based on what she does, "Death Midwife" actually seems like an accurate term.
 
2020-08-06 3:30:01 AM  
If was her I would have fun and call myself a Necromancer.
 
2020-08-06 3:31:56 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-06 3:36:05 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-06 3:40:45 AM  
Apropos of nothing, I was covering activities at a turkey farm one day. We talked to all the people on the line, including the guys that have to examine each little cute baby turkey chick. They check for overt defects, stick the little beak in a tiny guillotine-like contraption for beaks that clips the tip off, blunting it (so they don't damage each other's flesh, pecking at each other, it gives them a perpetual look of them whistling or saying: "OOOOOH!"),

...and the last job to do on each bird is to probe their cloaca with a gloved fingertip to determine Toms from Hens.

Their official job title, the thing they have to write on their IRS form as "this is my job", is:

"turkey sexer".

Every day I thank God I don't have that for a job title.
 
2020-08-06 3:43:23 AM  

Somaticasual: At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..


I wouldn't call it political correctness.
 
2020-08-06 3:44:53 AM  

uttertosh: Candygram4Mongo: uttertosh: Did anyone figure out what her job actually is? I am a little disappointed that it wasn't at planned parenthood, but I am getting therapy for that side of me.

I just want to meet such a gallows person!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic​le-7540997/Woman-wins-court-battle-cal​l-death-midwife.html

[Fark user image image 422x750]

Basically she could just call herself an "independent funeral consultant."

D'aaaww!! She's a sweetheart!

I now agree that Death Doula should be suggested to her. She is doing a caring job, imho.


I dunno, I think I'd go for the slightly more theatrical: The Doula of Death!
 
2020-08-06 3:45:06 AM  
Any Pie Left:
Their official job title, the thing they have to write on their IRS form as "this is my job", is:

"turkey sexer".

Every day I thank God I don't have that for a job title.


Oh sure, but they can change their job if it's too bad...      Fark just one turkey tho, and you can NEVER get rid of that title.
 
2020-08-06 3:45:53 AM  

Medic Zero: Somaticasual: At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..

I wouldn't call it political correctness.


Fair on maybe being mis-phrased. But we definitely play linguistic games to avoid any sense of unpleasantness.
 
2020-08-06 4:06:03 AM  

Somaticasual: Medic Zero: Somaticasual: At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..

I wouldn't call it political correctness.

Fair on maybe being mis-phrased. But we definitely play linguistic games to avoid any sense of unpleasantness.


Main issue with it is that "midwife" is a protected term in Canada, like "dentist" or "psychiatrist". You have to actually have the qualifications and be a member of good standing in the national association to use the term in your job title. Canadian trade associations get pretty territorial about it, even when it is clearly in jest.

Don't disagree with the sentiment of death being too taboo tho. Lightening it up a bit would definitely be a good thing in general.
 
2020-08-06 4:20:30 AM  

Somaticasual: At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..


The reason she can't use it isn't PC, it's that "midwife" is both a medical term of art referring to a specific profession with a defined set of duties and required qualifications, and a term owned by a professional association that can only be claimed by qualified members of that association.

I could argue that my last job involved negotiating the legal obligations around industrial safety standards and thus in the literal dictionary-definition sense I'm a "safety lawyer", but if I tried to put that on my CV or advertising materials I'd run into exactly the same problem as this woman did, as I do not meet the definition of "lawyer" as a term of art in the relevant profession, and am not a member of my state's bar.

Essentially, the problem is that it's fundamentally not honest, for multiple reasons.  It's pretty clearly not an intentional attempt to defraud anyone, which is why the court's going easy and just gently informing her that she needs to cut that shiat out instead of actually turning it into a false advertising or even an actual fraud case... but they're 100% correct that she does, in fact, need to cut it the fark out.

Any Pie Left: Their official job title, the thing they have to write on their IRS form as "this is my job", is:

"turkey sexer".


In seriousness, that's a pretty good example of a term of art.  It's called that because it's the formal name of the post within the profession, and you could get in various kinds of minor trouble if you tried to use the term for another kind of job even if it made intuitive linguistic sense from the POV of an outsider (not as much trouble as the midwife thing since sexers don't have a guild or union to my knowledge, but some).
 
2020-08-06 4:29:31 AM  
Could she technically do taxidermy?
 
2020-08-06 4:35:30 AM  

Doctoral Candidate Zaius: I'm a little confused as to what death care services are. Is it more of a hospice or is it the funeral home aspect?

I think Acolyte of Charon would be a better term than death midwife anyway.


I am a trained by one group as a "Mercy Doula", and in another group as an "End of Life Doula", but it is essentially the same as Death Midwife, Soul Midwife, Thanadoula and a few other titles.

It is closer to a hospice aspect...in medicine there is the four stages of giving birth and regular doulas and midwives help bring the life into the world. Death midwives come into play for the four stages of dying and help someone leave the world as comfortably as possible- anywhere from just sitting with the dying so they are not alone, to having the right music playing, the right smells and food around etc so that the dying feels at ease.

After death, the individual groups can vary, some help the families with cleaning and dressing the body, some help with home funerals or rituals, some do little tasks like cooking and making calls so the family can have more time with the deceased before they are carried off. A few are funeral advocates to make sure the family gets what they want from the funeral homes and cemeteries. It depends on where in the world, or in the US what state, you are in. I myself focus on the dying person, especially the moments early on where they are still conscious and with it and need a sounding board or something to focus on.

It's a secondary focus though- the main one is helping the actively dying person with their "labor" while they are dying. It's an old profession, more of an old duty, that was somewhat made obsolete with the rise of the hospital and funeral industries and the alienation of people to being around the dying and dead. With more people choosing to die at home, and to do it in a way that is more comfortable, sees the need for people to use death midwives much in the same way that mothers still seek out birth doulas Instead of giving birth at the hospital.

Currently their is no regulation or official degree to be a a death midwife, No board certifications, etc, which is where a lot of the confusion as to reach and regulations are. Some do this as their actual livelihood (no pun intended) which is where governments/hospice groups/Insurance/funeral industries want to step in a lot to make sure they aren't losing out on profit somewhere.

Death doula is isn't my career, I have attended only a few deaths as one over the last five years- my day job is as a nurse. But I got trained as a death doula specifically to be there for those who needed someone there, not as a visiting nurse or church volunteer or insurance regulated capacity, but as straight our comfort care for a couple of people I knew at the time.

I think that FTA, someone in the medical or funeral industry most likely reported the lady because it cuts into their business. I can't see how it would have been an issue to anyone else, so long as she wasn't claiming to be a board certified career and causing liabilities.

/PSA know your funeral laws and rights
//thinks Acolyte of Charon would be a cool title as long as there's robes.
 
2020-08-06 4:37:33 AM  

Any Pie Left: Their official job title, the thing they have to write on their IRS form as "this is my job", is:

"turkey sexer".

Every day I thank God I don't have that for a job title.


The Turkey Sexers was the name of my all original, no covers Bonnie Tyler-fronted band.
 
2020-08-06 4:58:48 AM  

RodneyToady: MaryMoon claimed she had been providing "death-care services" for more than 40 years and her work has nothing to do with delivering babies.

So that's why she'll outlive all the septuagenarians...

[YouTube video: dead eye dick- new age girl.mp4]


That song was stuck in my head the entire article...

/Great song, shame that everything else they made sucked
 
2020-08-06 5:22:32 AM  

Somaticasual: Medic Zero: Somaticasual: At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..

I wouldn't call it political correctness.

Fair on maybe being mis-phrased. But we definitely play linguistic games to avoid any sense of unpleasantness.


Religious people do that
 
2020-08-06 6:13:34 AM  

Doctoral Candidate Zaius: I'm a little confused as to what death care services are.


it's like day care, but for dead kids.
 
2020-08-06 6:14:57 AM  

Medic Zero: Somaticasual: At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..

I wouldn't call it political correctness.


OK, Karen
 
2020-08-06 6:15:14 AM  
previews.123rf.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-06 6:23:07 AM  

Hallows_Eve: Doctoral Candidate Zaius: I'm a little confused as to what death care services are. Is it more of a hospice or is it the funeral home aspect?

I think Acolyte of Charon would be a better term than death midwife anyway.

I am a trained by one group as a "Mercy Doula", and in another group as an "End of Life Doula", but it is essentially the same as Death Midwife, Soul Midwife, Thanadoula and a few other titles.

It is closer to a hospice aspect...in medicine there is the four stages of giving birth and regular doulas and midwives help bring the life into the world. Death midwives come into play for the four stages of dying and help someone leave the world as comfortably as possible- anywhere from just sitting with the dying so they are not alone, to having the right music playing, the right smells and food around etc so that the dying feels at ease.

After death, the individual groups can vary, some help the families with cleaning and dressing the body, some help with home funerals or rituals, some do little tasks like cooking and making calls so the family can have more time with the deceased before they are carried off. A few are funeral advocates to make sure the family gets what they want from the funeral homes and cemeteries. It depends on where in the world, or in the US what state, you are in. I myself focus on the dying person, especially the moments early on where they are still conscious and with it and need a sounding board or something to focus on.

It's a secondary focus though- the main one is helping the actively dying person with their "labor" while they are dying. It's an old profession, more of an old duty, that was somewhat made obsolete with the rise of the hospital and funeral industries and the alienation of people to being around the dying and dead. With more people choosing to die at home, and to do it in a way that is more comfortable, sees the need for people to use death midwives much in the same way that mothers still seek out birth doulas ...


If you read the article it was the midwives that brought the legal action.

Like it or not certain job titles have a legal definition to prevent misrepresentations. Currently Midwife means a specialist who provides expert birth services and has to be qualified and skilled (as shown by being able to maintain membership of the professional body).

The reason why the job title is protected is because of the trail of dead bodies that used to litter the pregnancy and birth process. Is this protection of life worth narrowly defining a word? yes it is.
 
2020-08-06 6:28:31 AM  

LewDux: [previews.123rf.com image 667x1300]


Eh, she's not big on robes or a scythe.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-06 7:25:25 AM  
So basically she's a Discworld witch, stuck here on the Roundworld.
 
2020-08-06 8:09:37 AM  

uttertosh: Did anyone figure out what her job actually is? I am a little disappointed that it wasn't at planned parenthood, but I am getting therapy for that side of me.

I just want to meet such a gallows person!


End of Life consultant.
 
2020-08-06 8:37:30 AM  
Why not call them psychopomps? Sounds just as awesome, and has been in use for a thousand years or so.
 
2020-08-06 9:23:25 AM  
This is why Goody's is better than BC.
 
2020-08-06 10:12:00 AM  
saw a thing on tv years ago, about a movement toward legalizing and normalizing what they termed a more natural burial- no embalming, not even a coffin; pretty much straight into the ground in a unbleached locally sourced pesticide-free burlap sack.  apparently it's surprisingly sanitary and of course low-impact: there was something about how even cremation involves too big a toll on the environment.  it's weird to think how many things we don't consider 'unsustainable', because they've become ingrained... anyway, she reminded me of that.
 
2020-08-06 10:21:32 AM  

Norfolking Chance: Hallows_Eve: Doctoral Candidate Zaius: I'm a little confused as to what death care services are. Is it more of a hospice or is it the funeral home aspect?

I think Acolyte of Charon would be a better term than death midwife anyway.

I am a trained by one group as a "Mercy Doula", and in another group as an "End of Life Doula", but it is essentially the same as Death Midwife, Soul Midwife, Thanadoula and a few other titles.

It is closer to a hospice aspect...in medicine there is the four stages of giving birth and regular doulas and midwives help bring the life into the world. Death midwives come into play for the four stages of dying and help someone leave the world as comfortably as possible- anywhere from just sitting with the dying so they are not alone, to having the right music playing, the right smells and food around etc so that the dying feels at ease.

After death, the individual groups can vary, some help the families with cleaning and dressing the body, some help with home funerals or rituals, some do little tasks like cooking and making calls so the family can have more time with the deceased before they are carried off. A few are funeral advocates to make sure the family gets what they want from the funeral homes and cemeteries. It depends on where in the world, or in the US what state, you are in. I myself focus on the dying person, especially the moments early on where they are still conscious and with it and need a sounding board or something to focus on.

It's a secondary focus though- the main one is helping the actively dying person with their "labor" while they are dying. It's an old profession, more of an old duty, that was somewhat made obsolete with the rise of the hospital and funeral industries and the alienation of people to being around the dying and dead. With more people choosing to die at home, and to do it in a way that is more comfortable, sees the need for people to use death midwives much in the same way that mothers still seek out ...


It's a fair point. I have to essentially agree to not put my nursing license at risk in order to do this. If I attend to someone (even though mostly its been relatives and family friends) I have to be absolutely clear that I am there as a Death/Mercy Doula and not as a nurse. I mean, I have to be absolutely clear, so that there is no mix up of what I would be doing medically (or not) unless my nursing oath calls for it to override it, in that case I am acting as a good samaritan and not the assigned medical care. I can see the birth midwives need to make sure it is defined, due to the fact that they do have to be board certified and are held liable where the death midwivery process is rather bohemian by comparison, and the word in modern times does imply medical training.

Still, it seems that it could be just as well resolved if the Childlike Empress lady just makes absolutely clear that she is not a birth/medically certified midwife in all her materials and signs, and Q&A about what the difference is (I believe she does this).
 
2020-08-06 11:15:11 AM  

Boojum2k: LewDux: [previews.123rf.com image 667x1300]

Eh, she's not big on robes or a scythe.

[Fark user image 179x256]


She'll still break those out once in a while though.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-06 12:28:30 PM  
How to know someone is bs.
They can't use a term of their own that accurately describes what they do, they seek to co-opt a term from others that basiaclly has nothign to do whit what they do.

Marketing at it's worst is what this is.
 
2020-08-06 1:13:18 PM  

uttertosh: Did anyone figure out what her job actually is?


Abortionist, I presume. Your baby delivered dead or your money back.
 
2020-08-06 1:16:44 PM  
MaryMoon's lawyer claimed in the appeal that the ability to use the title for her vocation is connected to her self-worth, identity and dignity, which should be protected under the charter.

I am genuinely surprised to find that her pronouns are not they/them.
 
2020-08-06 4:10:34 PM  

Somacandra: So...is Sandwoman available?

Or Shinagami? Like Rinne Rokudo?


She seems to be confusing "midwife" with "psychopomp."
 
2020-08-06 8:45:12 PM  

uttertosh: Did anyone figure out what her job actually is? I am a little disappointed that it wasn't at planned parenthood, but I am getting therapy for that side of me.

I just want to meet such a gallows person!


Necropheliac?
 
2020-08-07 12:18:15 AM  

Somaticasual: Medic Zero: Somaticasual: At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..

I wouldn't call it political correctness.

Fair on maybe being mis-phrased. But we definitely play linguistic games to avoid any sense of unpleasantness.


Agreed. Seen far too much of it the years I worked in ICU's.
 
2020-08-07 12:19:54 AM  

LewDux: Medic Zero: Somaticasual: At least it's honest on the face value. So many times, our society dances around even the mere idea of death for the sake of political correctness..

I wouldn't call it political correctness.

OK, Karen


So you don't understand how to use Karen either, got it. Sad coming from someone familiar with Schenk.
 
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