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(9 to 5 Mac)   How many states are using the Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy? If you guessed two, your guess was double the actual number. Other 49 worried app development doesn't cost enough, or steal enough data   (9to5mac.com) divider line
    More: Fail, United States, U.S. state, contact tracing app, first state, Update August, public health authority, U.S. states, support contact tracing  
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1666 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2020 at 2:35 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



32 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-08-05 2:08:09 PM  
I'm not sure there's even any point in having such apps in the US. Have you seen how many people refuse to voluntarily wear masks?

/or hell, wear them if made mandatory by law
 
2020-08-05 2:50:17 PM  
Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.
 
2020-08-05 2:53:45 PM  
It's actually a state I would have bet would be in the bottom 3 to ever choose to use something like this.
 
2020-08-05 2:54:58 PM  
Rhode Island is using a mobile app developed by Salesforce: "It also is compliant with applicable privacy laws, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)."

And they did it for free: "Salesforce has agreed to a six-month contract to set up and provide support for the program and app for free."

So, subby, feel free to shiat on other states -- but leave Rhody alone.
 
2020-08-05 3:00:24 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.


This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.
 
2020-08-05 3:06:54 PM  

Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.


But in real life, most of us don't have the time to research every single app we use.  I generally know how Google, FB, and Apple work.  And it is not as nefarious as people make it out to be.  But I could see instances where it could be troublesome.

So while you may call me lazy, I tend to think I put a good enough effort into looking into these things to say "I don't fully trust these apps, though I'm probably wrong-ish, and it is probably best not to freely give out the sort of information they want."
 
2020-08-05 3:15:13 PM  
Link to 9to5Mac article about Virginia's COVIDWISE app

Furthermore, Apple yesterday released the fourth developer beta of iOS 14, which brings support for the Exposure Notification API. The feature did not work in the first three developer betas, and it still does not work in the iOS 14 public beta. That being said, we expect a new version of the iOS 14 public beta as soon as this week, which should add support for the Exposure Notification API.

Damnit
 
2020-08-05 3:22:17 PM  

Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.


See, you're much nicer than I am. I was going to tell them to go fark themselves.
 
2020-08-05 3:27:23 PM  

downstairs: Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.

But in real life, most of us don't have the time to research every single app we use.  I generally know how Google, FB, and Apple work.  And it is not as nefarious as people make it out to be.  But I could see instances where it could be troublesome.

So while you may call me lazy, I tend to think I put a good enough effort into looking into these things to say "I don't fully trust these apps, though I'm probably wrong-ish, and it is probably best not to freely give out the sort of information they want."


In the hands of the government I can see the "public safety" aspect getting broad overreach

Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.


Finding reputable resources has become increasingly time consuming and reading the EULA means jack as there is always that line in there... "These rules are subject to change without notice."
 
2020-08-05 3:29:26 PM  
I mean i am just say'n here but you know:

Apple or google:
Hey i got this great tool that will help your life in tons of great ways, it's cheap to make, effective to use, and we're giving it away for free.


And they have any kind of reputation at all that would suggest this is an entierly legitimate statement at plain face value?

I men sure maybe they are 100% legit, but uhh boy who cried wolf fable about the effects of  developing a reputation is kinda a real deal, it's like why we make such stories to tell as lessons to be taught rather than  learned the hard way.
 
2020-08-05 3:39:34 PM  

themindiswatching: I'm not sure there's even any point in having such apps in the US. Have you seen how many people refuse to voluntarily wear masks?

/or hell, wear them if made mandatory by law


I haven't personally seen that. Here in northern VA, mask compliance seems pretty good, but I haven't been getting out that often, and I've been making a point of going to the same grocery store and the same gas station to reduce my exposure to strangers' germs.  So I have a pretty narrow set of first-hand observations.
 
2020-08-05 3:40:19 PM  
A guy I knew from about a 15 years ago posted recently that if anyone was going to use the Google app to remove him from their contacts list because he doesn't want to be tracked. I asked him if he was unaware of how phones have worked for the past decade plus.
 
2020-08-05 3:41:01 PM  

RI_Red: Rhode Island is using a mobile app developed by Salesforce: "It also is compliant with applicable privacy laws, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)."

And they did it for free: "Salesforce has agreed to a six-month contract to set up and provide support for the program and app for free."

So, subby, feel free to shiat on other states -- but leave Rhody alone.


I won't leave Rhody alone, you just got yanked off the "safe travel" list for Massachusetts.  What is happening down there with your case counts?
 
2020-08-05 3:42:04 PM  
The solution isn't always Big Business.  The Governor's cousin's tech startup needs business too.
 
2020-08-05 3:50:35 PM  

RI_Red: Rhode Island is using a mobile app developed by Salesforce: "It also is compliant with applicable privacy laws, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)."

And they did it for free: "Salesforce has agreed to a six-month contract to set up and provide support for the program and app for free."

So, subby, feel free to shiat on other states -- but leave Rhody alone.


Does the app work in the background? How's its battery usage?

Beyond the privacy thing, those are the main reasons to use the official Exposure Notifications Service in your app.
 
2020-08-05 3:52:32 PM  

themindiswatching: I'm not sure there's even any point in having such apps in the US. Have you seen how many people refuse to voluntarily wear masks?

/or hell, wear them if made mandatory by law


Yeah. Those that would need contact tracing are the least likely to use it.,,, just like their masks.
 
2020-08-05 3:54:14 PM  
Up here in the land of ice, snow, maple syrup, and <1000 new cases yesterday for the whole country, we have COVID Alert, built by Health Canada and Shopify (based out of Ottawa, if you didn't know).

If you're a Canadian Farker, install it.

I'm a paranoid bastard, and know a lot of paranoid bastards, and none of us have been able to find fault with the app. It's quite good, and thank you to the folks who came up with the Exposure Notification Service in the first place.
 
2020-08-05 3:58:00 PM  

Splinthar: RI_Red: Rhode Island is using a mobile app developed by Salesforce: "It also is compliant with applicable privacy laws, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)."

And they did it for free: "Salesforce has agreed to a six-month contract to set up and provide support for the program and app for free."

So, subby, feel free to shiat on other states -- but leave Rhody alone.

I won't leave Rhody alone, you just got yanked off the "safe travel" list for Massachusetts.


Fair point. We should take the lumps when we get shiat wrong. (Though I stand by my initial point that RI wasn't "worried app development doesn't cost enough, or steal enough data" as the headline stated.)

What is happening down there with your case counts?

I can only guess. Probably the idiots who came to our beaches without masks. Or the bars that didn't install Plexiglas guards for their staff and now have to shut down at 11 p.m. because of it.
 
2020-08-05 4:04:00 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.


If you think I'm a kiddo, you are probably too old to have actually looked at the API. The internet isn't just tubes :)
 
2020-08-05 4:14:02 PM  

downstairs: Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.

But in real life, most of us don't have the time to research every single app we use.  I generally know how Google, FB, and Apple work.  And it is not as nefarious as people make it out to be.  But I could see instances where it could be troublesome.

So while you may call me lazy, I tend to think I put a good enough effort into looking into these things to say "I don't fully trust these apps, though I'm probably wrong-ish, and it is probably best not to freely give out the sort of information they want."


How exactly does Apple work? Bearing in mind that they went to the mat against the government, refusing to hack an iphone for the feds, and went on to plug the hole that ultimately a third party used (with government money) to crack it. I trust Apple with my data. Being secure to the point of snobby is part of their snobby brand. I trust Google too, but for less secure reasons. Facebook can go fark themselves.
 
2020-08-05 4:49:19 PM  
"No response" apparently means "no, we are not using it."

/moran article is moran
 
2020-08-05 5:07:31 PM  

Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.


I work in the software industry, and distrusting Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Twitter is the correct default position, IMO.

If somebody physically followed me around taking notes about everywhere I go, every product I look at, every question I ask, everything I read, everything I wear, the products I own, the people I hang out with or talk to, etc. it would be called stalking, and they could go to jail.

On the internet, it's called "Google," and people love it.

The worrisome part is that there's no oversight at all, and nobody knows for sure what they're doing with that data or who gets to look at it or who they sell it to.

But some people are fine with that.
 
2020-08-05 5:41:29 PM  

RI_Red: Splinthar: RI_Red: Rhode Island is using a mobile app developed by Salesforce: "It also is compliant with applicable privacy laws, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)."

And they did it for free: "Salesforce has agreed to a six-month contract to set up and provide support for the program and app for free."

So, subby, feel free to shiat on other states -- but leave Rhody alone.

I won't leave Rhody alone, you just got yanked off the "safe travel" list for Massachusetts.

Fair point. We should take the lumps when we get shiat wrong. (Though I stand by my initial point that RI wasn't "worried app development doesn't cost enough, or steal enough data" as the headline stated.)

What is happening down there with your case counts?

I can only guess. Probably the idiots who came to our beaches without masks. Or the bars that didn't install Plexiglas guards for their staff and now have to shut down at 11 p.m. because of it.


Well worst comes to worst we can blame Curt Shilling for souring Rhode Island on any software developers. 

Be safe my friend!
 
2020-08-05 6:11:43 PM  

downstairs: Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.

But in real life, most of us don't have the time to research every single app we use.  I generally know how Google, FB, and Apple work.  And it is not as nefarious as people make it out to be.  But I could see instances where it could be troublesome.

So while you may call me lazy, I tend to think I put a good enough effort into looking into these things to say "I don't fully trust these apps, though I'm probably wrong-ish, and it is probably best not to freely give out the sort of information they want."


I mean, I don't research every app I use, but one like this, I did, and all the paranoid folks I know and trust have already turned over every leaf and admitted "Alright, it really seems like it's just using a bunch of random numbers".
 
2020-08-05 6:20:55 PM  
You're really asking a lot if you want people to suddenly be ok with an app whose sole purpose is to track your every move and invade your privacy because it's 'good for you'. And the very LAST people I trust with securing an app are government contractors on a tight deadline.
 
2020-08-05 8:05:26 PM  

Surpheon: downstairs: Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.

But in real life, most of us don't have the time to research every single app we use.  I generally know how Google, FB, and Apple work.  And it is not as nefarious as people make it out to be.  But I could see instances where it could be troublesome.

So while you may call me lazy, I tend to think I put a good enough effort into looking into these things to say "I don't fully trust these apps, though I'm probably wrong-ish, and it is probably best not to freely give out the sort of information they want."

How exactly does Apple work? Bearing in mind that they went to the mat against the government, refusing to hack an iphone for the feds, and went on to plug the hole that ultimately a third party used (with government money) to crack it. I trust Apple with my data. Being secure to the point of snobby is part of their snobby brand. I trust Google too, but for less secure reasons. Facebook can go fark themselves.


https://www.apple.com/covid19/contact​t​racing
That's Apple's spec and papers on it.
Knock yourself out.
 
2020-08-05 8:07:16 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: Surpheon: downstairs: Enigmamf: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Apple/Google contact tracing API that respects user privacy?

That's where you are wrong kiddo.

This is where default cynicism hurts us - it's so much easier to assume everyone is evil than to evaluate things on a case by case basis that the average lazy person won't bother to try to figure out what's true and what is not.

But in real life, most of us don't have the time to research every single app we use.  I generally know how Google, FB, and Apple work.  And it is not as nefarious as people make it out to be.  But I could see instances where it could be troublesome.

So while you may call me lazy, I tend to think I put a good enough effort into looking into these things to say "I don't fully trust these apps, though I'm probably wrong-ish, and it is probably best not to freely give out the sort of information they want."

How exactly does Apple work? Bearing in mind that they went to the mat against the government, refusing to hack an iphone for the feds, and went on to plug the hole that ultimately a third party used (with government money) to crack it. I trust Apple with my data. Being secure to the point of snobby is part of their snobby brand. I trust Google too, but for less secure reasons. Facebook can go fark themselves.

https://www.apple.com/covid19/contactt​racing
That's Apple's spec and papers on it.
Knock yourself out.


Here's the Dick and Jane version:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macr​u​mors.com/guide/exposure-notification/a​mp/
 
2020-08-05 8:42:33 PM  
So I'm supposed to waste my battery leaving bluetooth on all day?
 
2020-08-05 8:56:40 PM  

halifaxdatageek: Up here in the land of ice, snow, maple syrup, and <1000 new cases yesterday for the whole country, we have COVID Alert, built by Health Canada and Shopify (based out of Ottawa, if you didn't know).

If you're a Canadian Farker, install it.

I'm a paranoid bastard, and know a lot of paranoid bastards, and none of us have been able to find fault with the app. It's quite good, and thank you to the folks who came up with the Exposure Notification Service in the first place.


I've installed it even though it's not active in BC yet (nobody can upload the codes to trigger a notification). It's built on the same Apple/Google API described in the article.

The app will help but it's not perfect. It might let you know that you were sitting behind an infected person on a bus, but it doesn't account for droplets drifting through a larger indoor space like an office or restaurant. People will still need to minimize their exposure, wear masks, and keep their social bubbles small.

There isn't yet a good solution for people who don't have a recent enough smartphone (one which supports the necessary low-power Bluetooth protocol) although I've seen some reports of companies working on dedicated hardware devices similar to those Tile trackers.
 
2020-08-05 9:07:35 PM  

Russ1642: You're really asking a lot if you want people to suddenly be ok with an app whose sole purpose is to track your every move and invade your privacy because it's 'good for you'. And the very LAST people I trust with securing an app are government contractors on a tight deadline.


Its OK, it's probably secured with blockchain
 
2020-08-05 9:34:35 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: So I'm supposed to waste my battery leaving bluetooth on all day?


It's actually a first-party component, so it uses basically no battery. Haven't noticed any excess drain on mine.

Plus it might help you not die, which is a point in its favour.
 
2020-08-06 2:11:33 AM  

halifaxdatageek: Plus it might help you not die, which is a point in its favour.


It's one of those things that, like vaccines, really only help anybody if the vast majority of people use them.
 
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