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(CarBuzz)   Musk blames lazy Tesla owners for not using autopilot properly   (carbuzz.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Tesla Motors, Tesla's choice, system Autopilot, Misuse of statistics, Elon Musk, Last month, German court, instructions Tesla  
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528 clicks; posted to Business » on 05 Aug 2020 at 2:31 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-08-05 11:31:28 AM  
Elon is right.

So, there's a spectrum of AI assist on cars. It's on a scale of Zero to 5.

Zero is your dad's original 1955 Bel Air.

5 is HAL 9000 from 2001.

We are currently at ~2.

Everyone thinks that we are at 5+.
 
2020-08-05 2:37:25 PM  

iheartscotch: Elon is right.

So, there's a spectrum of AI assist on cars. It's on a scale of Zero to 5.

Zero is your dad's original 1955 Bel Air.

5 is HAL 9000 from 2001.

We are currently at ~2.

Everyone thinks that we are at 5+.


He never should have used a deliberately misleading and incorrect term to sell his DRIVING ASSIST technology

He never should have gone with the cheapest and least reliable methods of computer vision that cant tell the difference between a highway billboard and an overturned semi

He never should have gone near twitter

He never should go near the press

He REALLY needs to learn how to let the experts direct instead of micromanaging everything to hell and back


The company would be infinitely better off with him off site and competent managers on site
 
2020-08-05 2:40:47 PM  
Elon is right.  That was an inferior person driving a superior car.  He was not worthy of owning a Tesla.  As I drove to work this morning, I saw people in non-Teslas, and I just felt sorry for them.  What's it like to go through life without being touched by the magic of Elon?  How do you live knowing that you're so far from what matters?  Sad.
 
2020-08-05 2:41:48 PM  
For someone in tech as long as Musk has been, he should be well aware that users are going to use tech in a manner it was not designed to be used.  This truth is what has kept me gainfully employed for most of the last 25 years.
 
2020-08-05 2:50:45 PM  
The concept lost on everyone, Tesla included, is "Situational Awareness". Without being actively involved in what is happening around the car the driver can't just take over in an instant. What's even worse is there is no training on how to handle failures, either by any government before buying / enabling an "autopilot" enabled car, or by Tesla themself.

Even where there is training on how to handle failures (leaving autopilot aside), few, if any, people have ever experienced a failure of a critical system in a car, and even fewer have had one simulated. How many people know what to do or try if your brakes suddenly fail? How many people have ever had their brakes suddenly completely fail (I have)? It is a horribly scary situation, and you don't have minutes to try to recover, you have a split second to decide to pump the brakes, try the emergency brake, downshift, and if any or all of those don't slow you down, decide what the safest item to hit is. Good luck doing any of those in a split second without full situational awareness beforehand.

I'm not even hating on Tesla, this is a general rant on drivers in general- just because a car has all sorts of great safety gear, or convenience gear, does not preclude the driver from knowing they have to take over when it stops working. Until the driver is no longer responsible, that doesn't change.
 
2020-08-05 3:18:29 PM  
I think putting an autopilot in a car that still has bugs, is not to smart.
 
2020-08-05 3:39:09 PM  

Opacity: I'm not even hating on Tesla, this is a general rant on drivers in general- just because a car has all sorts of great safety gear, or convenience gear, does not preclude the driver from knowing they have to take over when it stops working. Until the driver is no longer responsible, that doesn't change.


This. Even when driving on a straight highway with no ramps, it's still important to keep checking your mirrors to see what's around your car and make sure noone's cruising in your blind spots. That's kind of important in case you need to suddenly pull over and off the road if a sudden emergency arises.

With "autopilot", drivers are likely to be lulled into a false sense of security and stop monitoring around them. That can be fatal depending on what the situation is.

Not to mention "autopilot" is a horribly misleading term and Elon should've recognized that from the beginning as every other competent tech head did.
 
2020-08-05 3:46:51 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Elon is right.  That was an inferior person driving a superior car.  He was not worthy of owning a Tesla.  As I drove to work this morning, I saw people in non-Teslas, and I just felt sorry for them.  What's it like to go through life without being touched by the magic of Elon?  How do you live knowing that you're so far from what matters?  Sad.


they don't come in manuals. I'll never reach those lofty heights.
 
2020-08-05 3:58:22 PM  
Too many people think Elon Musk is Tony Stark when in reality he is Lex Luthor.
 
2020-08-05 4:02:33 PM  

teto85: Too many people think Elon Musk is Tony Stark when in reality he is Lex Luthor.


That's not fair. Lex Luther actually cared about humanity and the USA.
 
2020-08-05 4:08:57 PM  
How was he unaware that the general population is far from intelligent? Warning labels exit for a reason. Because people are idiots. Pure hubris on his part to not make that basic assessment of the people he is marketing to.
 
2020-08-05 4:21:02 PM  
Maybe he should not have allowed it to be called Autopilot, because that's not what it is.
 
2020-08-05 4:38:45 PM  
Hmmm... seem's familiar but I can't quite put my finger on it...


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-05 4:38:49 PM  
It is very common for tech people to blame the users instead of their bad design decisions. Almost as common as CEOs blaming customers for believing the marketing.
 
2020-08-05 4:47:42 PM  
He has a point though. No autopilot system, either in aviation or other fields, completely replaces the human operator. And you don't even need to read the damn manual in order to realize that Tesla's system is not autonomous driving. That's because it spells this out for you when you activate it, and because it constantly nags you to keep your hands on the steering wheel while the system is active.

Also, if you somehow believed that autopilot on planes made the human pilots redundant, you're a moron.
 
2020-08-05 4:51:28 PM  

neaorin: He has a point though. No autopilot system, either in aviation or other fields, completely replaces the human operator. And you don't even need to read the damn manual in order to realize that Tesla's system is not autonomous driving. That's because it spells this out for you when you activate it, and because it constantly nags you to keep your hands on the steering wheel while the system is active.

Also, if you somehow believed that autopilot on planes made the human pilots redundant, you're a moron.


autopilot on planes is perfectly safe due to the minor factor of no other aircraft within HUNDREDS of miles during its time of use

Comparing a planes system to a cars system makes him a complete farking idiot
 
2020-08-05 4:56:32 PM  

lifeslammer: neaorin: He has a point though. No autopilot system, either in aviation or other fields, completely replaces the human operator. And you don't even need to read the damn manual in order to realize that Tesla's system is not autonomous driving. That's because it spells this out for you when you activate it, and because it constantly nags you to keep your hands on the steering wheel while the system is active.

Also, if you somehow believed that autopilot on planes made the human pilots redundant, you're a moron.

autopilot on planes is perfectly safe due to the minor factor of no other aircraft within HUNDREDS of miles during its time of use

Comparing a planes system to a cars system makes him a complete farking idiot


1. MCAS is also an autopilot component. There's more to flying a plane than avoiding the other planes in the sky.
2. The point was that Tesla makes it clear that autopilot is NOT autonomous driving - basically all the time that it's active. You don't even need to read the manual for that.
 
2020-08-05 5:19:08 PM  

iheartscotch: Elon is right.

So, there's a spectrum of AI assist on cars. It's on a scale of Zero to 5.

Zero is your dad's original 1955 Bel Air.

5 is HAL 9000 from 2001.

We are currently at ~2.

Everyone thinks that we are at 5+.


Musk still says that Tesla cars will be at level 5 by the end of the year even though they can't even get the automatic windshield wiper speed correctly and a German driver wrecked trying to adjust his windshield through the touchscreen during a rainstorm.   He got a ticket for operating an electronic device while driving."
 
kab
2020-08-05 5:20:10 PM  
Weird nerds right out of the gate on this one.

Anyhow, FTA:  "That's the idiotic premise of being upset with the Autopilot name. Idiotic."

Auto = automatic.
Pilot = pilot

Stop whining that you named your half baked solution poorly, Elon.  Excerpts from your very own website indicate that the car can steer, accelerate, brake, and appropriately make decisions to get the driver to their destination, even on "complex roads".  Yet when this fails, it's the drivers fault for allowing it?  Lol.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-05 5:39:46 PM  
Let me guess, Elon's answer was something to  the effect of, "If you don't agree with what I said then you are stupid" - that's his answer for being called out on anything
 
2020-08-05 5:42:48 PM  

kab: Weird nerds right out of the gate on this one.

Anyhow, FTA:  "That's the idiotic premise of being upset with the Autopilot name. Idiotic."


The car constantly reminds you that you have to keep your hands on the wheel and be prepared to take over at any time. Everyone who ignored its constant warnings would have still ignored them If this system was called Copilot instead of Autopilot, with the same functionality and behavior.

The number of people who went "damn, I was going to follow the system's constant nagging, not to mention use an ounce of common sense, but seeing that your system is called Autopilot, I'm just going to take a nap while the car is driving me to work" is zero.
 
2020-08-05 5:43:33 PM  

Straight Outta Hate: iheartscotch: Elon is right.

So, there's a spectrum of AI assist on cars. It's on a scale of Zero to 5.

Zero is your dad's original 1955 Bel Air.

5 is HAL 9000 from 2001.

We are currently at ~2.

Everyone thinks that we are at 5+.

Musk still says that Tesla cars will be at level 5 by the end of the year even though they can't even get the automatic windshield wiper speed correctly and a German driver wrecked trying to adjust his windshield through the touchscreen during a rainstorm.   He got a ticket for operating an electronic device while driving."


Let's be fair now. He also said that last year. When we were supposed to get a million robo taxis.
 
2020-08-05 5:43:35 PM  
Sounds like this Musk guy just hates Tesla and wants to short the stock.
 
2020-08-05 6:04:52 PM  

neaorin: lifeslammer: neaorin: He has a point though. No autopilot system, either in aviation or other fields, completely replaces the human operator. And you don't even need to read the damn manual in order to realize that Tesla's system is not autonomous driving. That's because it spells this out for you when you activate it, and because it constantly nags you to keep your hands on the steering wheel while the system is active.

Also, if you somehow believed that autopilot on planes made the human pilots redundant, you're a moron.

autopilot on planes is perfectly safe due to the minor factor of no other aircraft within HUNDREDS of miles during its time of use

Comparing a planes system to a cars system makes him a complete farking idiot

1. MCAS is also an autopilot component. There's more to flying a plane than avoiding the other planes in the sky.
2. The point was that Tesla makes it clear that autopilot is NOT autonomous driving - basically all the time that it's active. You don't even need to read the manual for that.


Yet there are videos of people in a Tesla sleeping while his car drives. Also that couple filming themselves doing stupid shiat.

Let's not pretend Tesla, especially early on, hasn't misrepresented what Autopilot is.
 
2020-08-05 6:36:23 PM  

Intrepid00: Yet there are videos of people in a Tesla sleeping while his car drives. Also that couple filming themselves doing stupid shiat.


Sure. My point is that those people would have done the same thing if the system was called Copilot or something.

None of those people did this on their first Autopilot drive, or the second one. At some point, they decided to completely ignore the system's messages and decided to take a nap. Because they are dumb and/or reckless, not because of how the system is called.
 
2020-08-05 7:10:36 PM  
I'm still waiting for my flying car.
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-05 8:44:00 PM  
His politics is effing up potential new customers already, this doesn't help
 
2020-08-05 9:30:48 PM  

neaorin: Intrepid00: Yet there are videos of people in a Tesla sleeping while his car drives. Also that couple filming themselves doing stupid shiat.

Sure. My point is that those people would have done the same thing if the system was called Copilot or something.

None of those people did this on their first Autopilot drive, or the second one. At some point, they decided to completely ignore the system's messages and decided to take a nap. Because they are dumb and/or reckless, not because of how the system is called.


Still a dumb name and they should change it.
 
2020-08-05 9:45:10 PM  

kab: Weird nerds right out of the gate on this one.

Anyhow, FTA:  "That's the idiotic premise of being upset with the Autopilot name. Idiotic."

Auto = automatic.
Pilot = pilot

Stop whining that you named your half baked solution poorly, Elon.  Excerpts from your very own website indicate that the car can steer, accelerate, brake, and appropriately make decisions to get the driver to their destination, even on "complex roads".  Yet when this fails, it's the drivers fault for allowing it?  Lol.

[Fark user image 850x535]


I take it you didn't read the last line in the "AutoPilot" section. You are the problem.
 
2020-08-05 10:15:56 PM  

joker420: I think putting an autopilot in a car that still has bugs, is not to smart.


Yeah, thanks for putting thousands of 3000lb super fast beta tests on our shared roadways!
 
2020-08-05 10:44:22 PM  
"Autopilot" isn't even the worst of it anymore. Tesla now charges $7k+ for "Full Self Driving," then warns you in the fine print that it is literally none of those things. That's straight up slimy advertising bullcrap. That isn't "selective interpretation" of an "airplane" term. That's just a lie. And I say that as a Tesla FSD owner who actually loves his car.
 
2020-08-06 8:07:21 AM  

Axeofjudgement: Rapmaster2000: Elon is right.  That was an inferior person driving a superior car.  He was not worthy of owning a Tesla.  As I drove to work this morning, I saw people in non-Teslas, and I just felt sorry for them.  What's it like to go through life without being touched by the magic of Elon?  How do you live knowing that you're so far from what matters?  Sad.

they don't come in manuals. I'll never reach those lofty heights.


Sure they do.  They only have 1 gear, so D is all you're gonna find on the shifter though.
 
2020-08-06 8:11:24 AM  

lifeslammer: He never should have used a deliberately misleading and incorrect term to sell his DRIVING ASSIST technology


Except this is addressed in the article.  "Musk says the name is based on airplane autopilot technology where a pilot can also activate software that can manage the aircraft under certain conditions, but pilots must still be alert and immediately be ready to take over in an emergency."

There's nothing misleading or incorrect about calling it autopilot.  People are just stupid and too lazy to RTFM.
 
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