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(9News (Australia))   The science behind Beirut's massive explosion that leveled a good portion of the city (warning: graphic images)   (9news.com.au) divider line
    More: Scary, Ammonia, Nitrogen, AP Photo, Ammonium nitrate, Beirut, Lebanon, Oklahoma City bombing, Professor  
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7872 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2020 at 9:05 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-05 10:01:06 AM  

Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.


It's not just that they were storing ammonium nitrate. It was a concentrated form that was being stored improperly. Next to a fireworks warehouse. And a grain silo.


NEDM: Private_Citizen: I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important

Pretty much everyone agrees on the first one.  In fact, a great deal of the outrage is from people asking what the hell that much AN was doing in the port in the first place, let alone how it was forgotten for six farking years.


Apparently it had been seized years earlier from a Ukrainian flagged ship(with Russian owners) trying to smuggle it. Because it was this concentrated form it was unsuitable for resell to agricultural interests so they just let it rot in this warehouse.
 
2020-08-05 10:01:40 AM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Private_Citizen: NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.

I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important.

It's a damned-if-you-do situation.

You have to MOVE it to the storage location too, you know. And that's just as risky as letting it sit for 6 years. What are you going to do, built a dock 30 miles outside of the city just to offload the material?


Why would moving it be risky? It's not nitroglycerin, exploding if you look at it the wrong way. It's transported all over the place as fertilizer. You just have to keep it away from fire or exploding things, which is why a dock is a really dumb place to store it, since there tends to be a ton of flammable things stored around there.
 
2020-08-05 10:02:02 AM  

Wasteland: Yup, good old ammonium nitrate.  Not the first time, won't be the last time.


And Texas City was about 500 fewer tons than Beirut.  I haven't been able to find anything noting how much was being illegally stored at the West, TX facility though.
 
2020-08-05 10:05:51 AM  

zbtop: I'm not sure I need a scientist to explain how 3 kilotons of explosives going off in the center of town could level a good portion of a city.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-05 10:10:06 AM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Private_Citizen: NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.

I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important.

It's a damned-if-you-do situation.

You have to MOVE it to the storage location too, you know. And that's just as risky as letting it sit for 6 years. What are you going to do, built a dock 30 miles outside of the city just to offload the material?


You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry. It is safe to transport, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts.

Then you destroy it in a controlled manner, which is easier when not kept in huge amounts and in a place that won't level the area around it.
 
2020-08-05 10:11:07 AM  

jso2897: Sexy Jesus: I enjoyed seeing the other story linked on that page. The headline says that Trump has declared this an attack, based on his discussions with "great generals." Imma go out on a limb here and guess that the only great general he consulted with was in a CIV game. That he lost. Then blamed on phalanxes destroying his mech inf units and then called Sid Meier a sick, sick man.

Having your Panzer division wiped out by Zulu warriors can be a weird experience the first time around.


In Civ 3, I had an army of fusion tanks wiped out by musketeers. That was the last time I played that game.
 
2020-08-05 10:14:13 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Wasteland: Yup, good old ammonium nitrate.  Not the first time, won't be the last time.

And Texas City was about 500 fewer tons than Beirut.  I haven't been able to find anything noting how much was being illegally stored at the West, TX facility though.


Wikipedia says 240 tons at West, but it was probably more.  I felt it down in Waco, so it must have been more.
 
2020-08-05 10:15:27 AM  

yomrfark: xanadian: Associate Professor Stewart Walker from the school of Forensic, Environmental and Analytical Chemistry at Flinders University said ammonium nitrate is not flammable but will "support a fire by providing oxygen to burn".

stupid Flinders...

stupid sexy Flinders


Nothing at allnothing at all nothing at all
 
2020-08-05 10:15:42 AM  
The science behind Beirut's massive explosion that leveled a good portion of the city.

Did it leave the bad portions of the city intact?
 
2020-08-05 10:16:04 AM  

NEDM: geekbikerskum: NEDM: In fact, a great deal of the outrage is from people asking what the hell that much AN was doing in the port in the first place, let alone how it was forgotten for six farking years.

The AN was confiscated by the Lebanese port authority from a ship, the MV Rhosus, that ran into legal troubles while docked in Beirut.  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/2​-750-tons-of-ammonium-nitrate-was-impo​unded-in-beirut-s-port-after-it-was-se​ized-from-an-abandoned-ship-in-2014-ye​ars-before-the-explosion/ar-BB17BeNF

That is known.  I meant why it was being stored in the port, considering its incredible danger.


Seems like it was taken off the ship and then everybody basically forgot about it.
 
2020-08-05 10:18:27 AM  
Why do the people in third world countries  pick up the freshly wounded and run? Lol
 
2020-08-05 10:18:52 AM  

MythDragon: jso2897: Sexy Jesus: I enjoyed seeing the other story linked on that page. The headline says that Trump has declared this an attack, based on his discussions with "great generals." Imma go out on a limb here and guess that the only great general he consulted with was in a CIV game. That he lost. Then blamed on phalanxes destroying his mech inf units and then called Sid Meier a sick, sick man.

Having your Panzer division wiped out by Zulu warriors can be a weird experience the first time around.

In Civ 3, I had an army of fusion tanks wiped out by musketeers. That was the last time I played that game.


The Total War series is the same.  Hit those elite 9-experience dismounted knights or phalanxes with wave after wave of peasant levies and peasant spearmen, and watch the numbers drop more and more as you desperately try to move the army back into a city to start retraining units at 10% strength, because one more battle and they will automatically merge, wiping out so much time and effort and money required to get them to 9-experience.  That is one feature that was replaced in Rome 2 that I love, the auto-replenishment of units in the field regardless of whether or not they are in cities.
 
2020-08-05 10:18:57 AM  

Discordulator: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Private_Citizen: NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.

I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important.

It's a damned-if-you-do situation.

You have to MOVE it to the storage location too, you know. And that's just as risky as letting it sit for 6 years. What are you going to do, built a dock 30 miles outside of the city just to offload the material?

You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry if you're in a safe environment like the USA. It is safe to transport when you don't have a civil war and armed fighters running around, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts which costs far less money to secure or be sure of in the middle of a warzone.

Then you destroy it in a controlled manner, which is easier when not kept in huge amounts and in a place that won't level the area around it.


We're talking about Lebanon, here. Not Cousin-Fark Kansas.
 
2020-08-05 10:19:37 AM  

NM Volunteer: UNC_Samurai: Wasteland: Yup, good old ammonium nitrate.  Not the first time, won't be the last time.

And Texas City was about 500 fewer tons than Beirut.  I haven't been able to find anything noting how much was being illegally stored at the West, TX facility though.

Wikipedia says 240 tons at West, but it was probably more.  I felt it down in Waco, so it must have been more.


Interesting note: everyone saying Oklahoma City was 2 tons, and Texas was 240 tons, are speaking in short tons (2000 lbs). The 2,750 tons in Beirut are Metric Tons (2204 lbs). To compare like units, that's 3031 tons in Beirut.

/And that's generally known as a metric farkton of badness.
 
2020-08-05 10:20:14 AM  

Geotpf: ...and then they just left the giant pile of ammonium nitrate in a warehouse in the middle of the city and forgot about. Brilliant!


Wouldn't surprise me if there weren't competing claims to the cargo.  The ship's owners declared bankruptcy and the ship's creditors might have been fighting it out amongst themselves, plus the Lebanese government might have had a claim to it either as confiscated goods (someone upthread mentioned it was being smuggled) and/or for port charges for a ship that was not allowed to sail.  That sort of competing-claims situation is something that can tie up a cargo in port for years.

That said, yes, a safer storage location should really have been found for the stuff.
 
2020-08-05 10:21:50 AM  

hawcian: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Private_Citizen: NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.

I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important.

It's a damned-if-you-do situation.

You have to MOVE it to the storage location too, you know. And that's just as risky as letting it sit for 6 years. What are you going to do, built a dock 30 miles outside of the city just to offload the material?

Why would moving it be risky? It's not nitroglycerin, exploding if you look at it the wrong way. It's transported all over the place as fertilizer. You just have to keep it away from fire or exploding things, which is why a dock is a really dumb place to store it, since there tends to be a ton of flammable things stored around there.


It's Lebanon, not Cousin-Fark Kansas. Anybody remember the whole spillover from the Syrian Civil war?

There were gun battles in the streets all over Lebanon? Bombings? Rocket Attacks?

Not exactly the best environment to plan moving any energetic material.
 
2020-08-05 10:23:56 AM  

Discordulator: You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry. It is safe to transport, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts.


Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size


Two different trucks don't agree with your assessment.
 
2020-08-05 10:24:03 AM  

NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.


Well they leveled part of their city.  Better now than never to start zoning.
 
2020-08-05 10:24:05 AM  

amindtat: Rapmaster2000: Wrong.  All the generals are telling Mr. Donald JOHN Trump that this was an attack.  An attack that started with a fire in a fireworks warehouse that spread to the warehouse where old fertilizer was stored.  It has all the trademarks of an attack!

The capitalized JOHN is a nice touch.


Sometimes I thicken it with "President Donald JOHN AND NOT HUSSEIN Trump."
 
2020-08-05 10:24:27 AM  

JerryHeisenberg: This story is a libertarian wet dream come to life.


Well, ignoring the fact that the government seized somebody's 3,000 tons of explosive material.  Pretty sure they don't like stuff like that.

... and then screwed up the storage of it and now we have this.
 
2020-08-05 10:25:14 AM  

joker420: Why do the people in third world countries  pick up the freshly wounded and run? Lol


It's been a war zone in the not too distance past. Picking up the wounded and running was the way to save them. Lol
 
2020-08-05 10:26:01 AM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: hawcian: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Private_Citizen: NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.

I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important.

It's a damned-if-you-do situation.

You have to MOVE it to the storage location too, you know. And that's just as risky as letting it sit for 6 years. What are you going to do, built a dock 30 miles outside of the city just to offload the material?

Why would moving it be risky? It's not nitroglycerin, exploding if you look at it the wrong way. It's transported all over the place as fertilizer. You just have to keep it away from fire or exploding things, which is why a dock is a really dumb place to store it, since there tends to be a ton of flammable things stored around there.

It's Lebanon, not Cousin-Fark Kansas. Anybody remember the whole spillover from the Syrian Civil war?

There were gun battles in the streets all over Lebanon? Bombings? Rocket Attacks?

Not exactly the best environment to plan moving any energetic material.


Put it on a derelict freighter, tow it miles off shore and sink it. Stay away from fishing areas.
 
2020-08-05 10:29:09 AM  

joker420: Why do the people in third world countries  pick up the freshly wounded and run? Lol


So helping other people makes you laugh.  You are a sociopath.
 
2020-08-05 10:30:06 AM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Discordulator: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Private_Citizen: NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.

I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important.

It's a damned-if-you-do situation.

You have to MOVE it to the storage location too, you know. And that's just as risky as letting it sit for 6 years. What are you going to do, built a dock 30 miles outside of the city just to offload the material?

You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry if you're in a safe environment like the USA. It is safe to transport when you don't have a civil war and armed fighters running around, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts which costs far less money to secure or be sure of in the middle of a warzone.

Then you destroy it in a controlled manner, which is easier when not kept in huge amounts and in a place that won't level the area around it.

We're talking about Lebanon, here. Not Cousin-Fark Kansas.


You are also talking about a current surge in violence when this stuff has been stored for 6 years, during relatively peaceful times.

Add on that keeping that much stored in one place could have been just as devastating as a wartime tool.

It's not like the whole country was crippled. Small truck operators could move the stuff without anyone even noticing. Like what happens with fertilizer trucks everywhere every day.
 
2020-08-05 10:30:14 AM  

Sexy Jesus: theresnothinglft: Now's the perfect chance to build the new shipping port 30 miles out of town... since the old one got leveled.

People don't found cities and then construct a suitable port.  Cities tend to grow up around suitable harbors. I guess some of that has changed with mega-construction techniques but nothing beats a quirk of nature for making a great harbor.


However, the harbor is now larger.
 
2020-08-05 10:30:33 AM  

Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.


Somehow I don't think it really was ammonium nitrate.  Rather, I strongly suspect this was a Hezbollah ammo dump that went up.
 
2020-08-05 10:31:42 AM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Private_Citizen: NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.

I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important.

It's a damned-if-you-do situation.

You have to MOVE it to the storage location too, you know. And that's just as risky as letting it sit for 6 years. What are you going to do, built a dock 30 miles outside of the city just to offload the material?


As Captain Obvious would tell us, just pointing something out is where the real heroism lies. Job done!  No need to thank me, all in a days work..,
 
2020-08-05 10:32:49 AM  

Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.


Zoning laws..?
We need another amendment to the constitution demanding intelligence testing for patronage jobs.
I'm sure this is gonna get traced back to somebody's brother in law, and if there are enough sticky bits left to put back together...
He will be shouted at..! "You IDIOT!"
That ought to do it.

/ "our country" preemptively.
// from great disasters great insight.
/// incompetent leadership hiring friends.
//// looking at you de vos
 
2020-08-05 10:34:22 AM  

Private_Citizen: Doctor Poop: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

Errrrr you might want to take a look then at where your rail, ports, and trucking depots lie if you live in the rust belt. Hopefully they have better zoning where you live.
Generally there will be some pretty dicey industries in your old downtowns or nearby as these were the jobs in walking or mass transit distance during the early and mid 20th century that led to the development of densely populated urban centers.
I'm from st louis, MO... Where we have an uncontained underground fire burning into improperly stored nuclear waste in a landfill near the airport.
I wouldnt be surprised if the Beirut explosion was just a result of poor handling.

I used to live in St. Louis, and am well aware of that fire. That whole story is a tragedy of mismanagement and illegal behavior.

You'll be lucky if it doesn't get MUCH worse.


*shrugs* when they started using that abandoned quarry as a landfill, Bridgeton was the middle of nowhere, same reason they built the airport there, which is famous for making the first presidential flight... it was Teddy Rossevelt, in a hot air balloon in the 19th century.

The nuclear waste dumped there was done so illegally, which is again, a good argument for zoning laws... and just laws in general and the EPA has been managing the whole site for 30 years.

It's actually well outside the city... but St.Louis is an oddity where the actual city is tiny and the county is huge... this is their problem.

/Fellow St. Louisan.
 
2020-08-05 10:36:38 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-05 10:45:54 AM  

Loren: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

Somehow I don't think it really was ammonium nitrate.  Rather, I strongly suspect this was a Hezbollah ammo dump that went up.


Borrowed from another Farker:
Reported 2016, as to why the nitrate was there
2013:
- Ship emergency stops in Beirut
- Port authorities forbid ship from sailing (will be seaworthiness)
- Legit crew repatriated, four crew members and master stuck on board. Not allowed to hop off.
- Owner of the vessel shiats their pants and abandons it and the cargo
- Creditors seek legal counsel and contest ship contents and get arrest warrants for crew members
- Crew members seek legal counsel because they don't want to be stuck on board a ship containing highly dangerous ammonium nitrate.
- Crew members granted repatriation due to safety concerns
- Beirut seizes ship and contents, sticks them in a warehouse pending auction or disposal

2016: Goods still sitting in a warehouse waiting to be disposed or sold, likely forgotten.

2020: Beirut gets a reminder the explosive fertilizer was still there.

Source

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-05 10:51:50 AM  
If only they had used the free market to determine the best place to store and the best methods of handling all those explosives...
 
2020-08-05 10:57:10 AM  

Discordulator: You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry. It is safe to transport, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts.

Then you destroy it in a controlled manner, which is easier when not kept in huge amounts and in a place that won't level the area around it.


You destroy it by selling the fertilizer to farmers. When the government remembers to do so.
 
2020-08-05 11:07:26 AM  

WelldeadLink: Discordulator: You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry. It is safe to transport, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts.

Then you destroy it in a controlled manner, which is easier when not kept in huge amounts and in a place that won't level the area around it.

You destroy it by selling the fertilizer to farmers. When the government remembers to do so.


Nitropril isn't fertilizer. It's not even ready made into fertilizer.
 
2020-08-05 11:08:13 AM  
I would be very interested to know the condition of the warehouse and whatever containers the nitrate was stored in before everything was blown to kingdom come.    I suspect the building was in poor repair and as such the nitrate was kept in unsafe conditions, also who the hell let fireworks be stored anywhere near the stuff?

I suspect most folks in Beirut forgot the nitrates were even there until they asploded real good.
 
2020-08-05 11:08:44 AM  

NM Volunteer: joker420: Why do the people in third world countries  pick up the freshly wounded and run? Lol

So helping other people makes you laugh.  You are a sociopath.


Lol, helping? Maybe, maybe not.
 
2020-08-05 11:11:21 AM  

hawcian: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Private_Citizen: NEDM: Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.

Beirut is an ancient city.  "Zoning laws" don't really come into play here, unless you're suggesting they should have taken time in the middle of their civil war to build an entirely new port separate from the one the city grew around for thousands of years.

I'm suggesting they store explosives in a warehouse AWAY from the city.

But I guess sometimes people need to see a city destroyed to understand why that's important.

It's a damned-if-you-do situation.

You have to MOVE it to the storage location too, you know. And that's just as risky as letting it sit for 6 years. What are you going to do, built a dock 30 miles outside of the city just to offload the material?

Why would moving it be risky? It's not nitroglycerin, exploding if you look at it the wrong way. It's transported all over the place as fertilizer. You just have to keep it away from fire or exploding things, which is why a dock is a really dumb place to store it, since there tends to be a ton of flammable things stored around there.


Lebanon was dealing with the spillover from the Syrian Civil War. Gun battles in the streets, rocket attacks, bombings, etc.

You know, fire and exploding things.

Again, we're not dealing with Cousin-Fark Kansas here.
 
2020-08-05 11:17:40 AM  

Private_Citizen: Loren: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

Somehow I don't think it really was ammonium nitrate.  Rather, I strongly suspect this was a Hezbollah ammo dump that went up.

Borrowed from another Farker:
Reported 2016, as to why the nitrate was there
2013:
- Ship emergency stops in Beirut
- Port authorities forbid ship from sailing (will be seaworthiness)
- Legit crew repatriated, four crew members and master stuck on board. Not allowed to hop off.
- Owner of the vessel shiats their pants and abandons it and the cargo
- Creditors seek legal counsel and contest ship contents and get arrest warrants for crew members
- Crew members seek legal counsel because they don't want to be stuck on board a ship containing highly dangerous ammonium nitrate.
- Crew members granted repatriation due to safety concerns
- Beirut seizes ship and contents, sticks them in a warehouse pending auction or disposal

2016: Goods still sitting in a warehouse waiting to be disposed or sold, likely forgotten.

2020: Beirut gets a reminder the explosive fertilizer was still there.

Source

[Fark user image image 425x499]


Holy shiat, could you imagine if someone from OSHA walked into this shot.  There palms would be sweating.
 
2020-08-05 11:18:46 AM  
White cloud? LMAO
 
2020-08-05 11:19:10 AM  

American-Irish eyes: Private_Citizen: Loren: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

Somehow I don't think it really was ammonium nitrate.  Rather, I strongly suspect this was a Hezbollah ammo dump that went up.

Borrowed from another Farker:
Reported 2016, as to why the nitrate was there
2013:
- Ship emergency stops in Beirut
- Port authorities forbid ship from sailing (will be seaworthiness)
- Legit crew repatriated, four crew members and master stuck on board. Not allowed to hop off.
- Owner of the vessel shiats their pants and abandons it and the cargo
- Creditors seek legal counsel and contest ship contents and get arrest warrants for crew members
- Crew members seek legal counsel because they don't want to be stuck on board a ship containing highly dangerous ammonium nitrate.
- Crew members granted repatriation due to safety concerns
- Beirut seizes ship and contents, sticks them in a warehouse pending auction or disposal

2016: Goods still sitting in a warehouse waiting to be disposed or sold, likely forgotten.

2020: Beirut gets a reminder the explosive fertilizer was still there.

Source

[Fark user image image 425x499]

Holy shiat, could you imagine if someone from OSHA walked into this shot.  There palms would be sweating.

My

palms are sweating.  Plastic does not do well in heat and salty humidity, and thousands of tons of fertilizer in plastic bags?  Holy shiat that is a scary photo.
 
2020-08-05 11:27:48 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Discordulator: You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry. It is safe to transport, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts.

[Fark user image 700x467]
[Fark user image 700x466]

Two different trucks don't agree with your assessment.


I don't see any trucks.
 
2020-08-05 11:28:28 AM  

Private_Citizen: Smoking GNU: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

The port, not the city center.

[Fark user image 425x590]
The port is in the city center. Houses are just on the other side of the street from the warehouses where they stored 3000 Tons of explosive fertilizer.

/At least when Pepcon blew up it was in the middle of nowhere.



Time is the answer, time and slow evolution driven mostly by market costs is what you did not take into account for  your POV on the situaiotn.

Why is a port where it is?
due to natural geological feat5ures most of the time, not an arbitrary thing we can build just anywhere, especially the more back in time we go.

And why are busy population centered located where they are?
Generally due to proximity convince to features that provide work or food, like ports and airports and natural resource centers.

And while it is common for airports to be built outside of city population centers, eventually a lot of the cities have grown out to where the airports were built and now many of the major airports of thew world have dense population centers near them and under heavy air traffic lanes.

While ports, you know the boats that won't fall out the sky onto your house. Those did not have the same considerations applied to their locations. And practically all the ports of the world came into existence long before the airports. So not nearly as much city and urban planning and design went into many of them.

The time flow is, ports go where ports can go, and cities just grow up around them over time. Most major ports of the world have been where they are for generations now.

The way you describe "why did they put it there in the middle of the city" is basically irrational and irrelevant a question to ask, as it assume wrongly the entire city and port were all planned at once together in a coherent way, rather than slowly wound up that way over many many many decades or hundreds of years with no single plan being carried out over many generations.
 
2020-08-05 11:29:53 AM  

MilesTeg: Very common substance. Wonder how many other huge warehouses exist not unlike this one around the world...

Wonder how many terrorists are taking note....


I know people in the Personal Storage Unit business. There are stories. I will not live closer than a mile from any of those places.
 
2020-08-05 11:30:05 AM  

Loren: Private_Citizen: So, they stored 3000 tons of ammonium nitrate (Oklahoma City was 2 tons) in the center of a city....

This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why we have zoning laws.

Somehow I don't think it really was ammonium nitrate.  Rather, I strongly suspect this was a Hezbollah ammo dump that went up.


I strongly suspect that you're stupid.
 
2020-08-05 11:32:11 AM  

OldJames: That shows you don't understand what libertarians want, probably at all.


No, he does, he's just being intellectually dishonest. He doesn't actually care what you believe, the purity test is all that matters.
 
2020-08-05 11:34:25 AM  
MASSIVE Beirut Lebanon EXPLOSION *ALL ANGLES* Compilation
Youtube Sv8tS4_dRrk


There's your earth shattering kaboom.
 
2020-08-05 11:38:57 AM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: WelldeadLink: Discordulator: You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry. It is safe to transport, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts.

Then you destroy it in a controlled manner, which is easier when not kept in huge amounts and in a place that won't level the area around it.

You destroy it by selling the fertilizer to farmers. When the government remembers to do so.

Nitropril isn't fertilizer. It's not even ready made into fertilizer.


See picture a couple posts before yours. Big bags loosely stored and stacked on the dirt floor of a dilapidated warehouse building. No shelves. No climate control. Right next to a fireworks warehouse and a grain silo. That was a disaster waiting to happen.
 
2020-08-05 11:39:41 AM  

MechaPyx: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: WelldeadLink: Discordulator: You move it, truck by truck, outside the city or to a quarry. It is safe to transport, and much less dangerous when not kept in huge amounts.

Then you destroy it in a controlled manner, which is easier when not kept in huge amounts and in a place that won't level the area around it.

You destroy it by selling the fertilizer to farmers. When the government remembers to do so.

Nitropril isn't fertilizer. It's not even ready made into fertilizer.

See picture a couple posts before yours. Big bags loosely stored and stacked on the dirt floor of a dilapidated warehouse building. No shelves. No climate control. Right next to a fireworks warehouse and a grain silo. That was a disaster waiting to happen.


Meant that to be a reply to grimlock1972. Meh.
 
2020-08-05 11:39:45 AM  
3 hours and 90 posts. A person could save time on fark by starting at the end and read backwards.
 
2020-08-05 11:41:17 AM  

Gleeman: [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/Sv8tS4_d​Rrk]

There's your earth shattering kaboom.


That first one ...

I don't know about you, but I'd shiat my pants thinking this was the big one.

Good god ... that dude says absolutely nothing. I'd be like

Oh Crap
Youtube QWNFB71MvTs
 
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