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(KJZZ Tempe)   As kids head back to the classroom, the primary insurer for Arizona's public schools won't cover coronavirus claims. Sleep well   (kjzz.org) divider line
    More: Sick, Insurance, High school, LAUREN GILGER, Arizona School Risk Retention Trust, school districts, Scott Little, federal government, federal level  
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2028 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Aug 2020 at 4:29 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-04 3:43:47 PM  
The Arizona School Risk Retention Trust, which provides coverage for nearly 250 school districts in the state, notified members that it will not provide coverage for claims related to coronavirus. The trust operates as a pool of school districts and is backed by reinsurance companies, and it's now considering some other options.

... I hate the politics of this state so much. Bunch of selfish arrogant sons of biatches who only care about receiving out of state money and don't care much about how that happens.

I mean, look at our water situation:

One day, I'm guessing the residents of Arizona will wake up and wonder: when did we lose our state? When did rural Arizona dry up and blow away?

When we do, we should remember this month, when the Arizona Legislature once again ignored common sense and the pleas of the people who live in areas where the groundwater is being sucked dry beneath their feet.
And there is nothing they can do about it.

The Legislature could do something but won't, thanks to a pair of rural lawmakers in the pocket of agricultural interests and the apparent indifference of legislative leaders who could override them.

The Arizona Republic's Ian James and Rob O'Dell have reported on the plummeting water tables in rural Arizona where mega farms owned by out-of-state businesses are sucking up the supply at astounding rates.


Arizona. For Sale to anyone with money. But we prefer it if you f*ck us over with a rusty chainsaw while you are at it.
 
2020-08-04 4:12:19 PM  
So the inevitable response will be for the state to ban lawsuits against schools rather than actually care about its citizens' health
 
2020-08-04 4:33:26 PM  
Any bullshiat that Trump endorses is considered an Act of God and is thus uninsurable.

Devils are gods, too, aren't they? At least other people's gods are our devils.
 
2020-08-04 4:34:22 PM  
/
On side note.
As long as you don't enroll you rug rat dumb crap kid no one cares and they won't be counted as truant.

Do your own due diligence people

Or not?
Let your kid die. I don't care.
 
2020-08-04 4:34:41 PM  
"...won't cover coronavirus claims..."

Because they know they'll be bankrupt inside of a week if that happens.
 
2020-08-04 4:36:09 PM  
This should be a wake up call. The insurance company is telling them that the harm to the public from opening the school will be catastrophic.
 
2020-08-04 4:37:14 PM  
A dozen school shootings and fark all has been done. Is anyone surprised that they want to send kids back to school in a pandemic?
 
2020-08-04 4:38:20 PM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: So the inevitable response will be for the state to ban lawsuits against schools rather than actually care about its citizens' health


They are working to ban any legal action regarding Corona virus claims. So for us factory workers who are 50 people deep in a 20x20 room all handling the same parts, same tools, same equipment when we get sick because the company enforced zero guidelines to protect it's employees we can all die peacefully without a legal fight
 
2020-08-04 4:42:27 PM  
It's OK! I'm sure Trump will cover them. Maybe.
 
2020-08-04 4:42:39 PM  
Our school district in Saint Louis has already made the decision to shut down through October.
 
2020-08-04 4:42:53 PM  
Subby would have used the obvious tag, but it was on a ventilator with a hundred other 2nd graders.
 
2020-08-04 4:42:59 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: It's OK! I'm sure Trump will cover them. Maybe.


With jizz?
 
2020-08-04 4:43:19 PM  

40 degree day: This should be a wake up call. The insurance company is telling them that the harm to the public from opening the school will be catastrophic.


Don't yeah love it when insurance companies dictate public policy.
 
2020-08-04 4:43:57 PM  
Pink Floyd - Another Brick In The Wall (HQ)
Youtube YR5ApYxkU-U
 
2020-08-04 4:44:27 PM  

whither_apophis: A dozen school shootings and fark all has been done. Is anyone surprised that they want to send kids back to school in a pandemic?


The thing is some of the people want this not to educate their dumb kids. They just don't like dealing with their stupid kids.
LOL
 
2020-08-04 4:45:16 PM  

FleshFlapps: Dead for Tax Reasons: So the inevitable response will be for the state to ban lawsuits against schools rather than actually care about its citizens' health

They are working to ban any legal action regarding Corona virus claims. So for us factory workers who are 50 people deep in a 20x20 room all handling the same parts, same tools, same equipment when we get sick because the company enforced zero guidelines to protect it's employees we can all die peacefully without a legal fight


Has anyone seen a video where the factory workers killed the boss the video needs to be posted everywhere
 
2020-08-04 4:49:49 PM  

40 degree day: This should be a wake up call. The insurance company is telling them that the harm to the public from opening the school will be catastrophic.


They're more saying "We can't tell you what the risk actually is, so we can't insure, because we can't do the math to make sure that we on average make a profit".

I'm sure they'd insure the schools if they could come up with a number other than "a lot" for how much it would cost to make up any pay outs over the right time horizon.
 
2020-08-04 4:50:41 PM  

waxbeans: Pointy Tail of Satan: It's OK! I'm sure Trump will cover them. Maybe.

With jizz?


Maybe wizz
 
2020-08-04 4:51:53 PM  

Fishbulb30w: waxbeans: Pointy Tail of Satan: It's OK! I'm sure Trump will cover them. Maybe.

With jizz?

Maybe wizz


🤮
 
2020-08-04 4:52:27 PM  
I don't view this as the insurer screwing over schools, I view it as both the insurers and the schools getting screwed over by the feds.

GILGER: So is that the solution you would look toward? Do you think this needs to come from a policy level?

LITTLE: In my opinion, the best solution is at a federal level. If they set a uniform standard by which negligence has to be proven, then it certainly will avoid the issue of having to defend frivolous lawsuits. Unfortunately, we love to litigate as a nation. You know, our Weeners to everything is to sue. And unfortunately, the very nature of the system is, is that people sue for frivolous items, but unfortunately, organizations settle because it's cheaper to settle than it is to fight. So you can be right, but it still costs you money to defend yourself from frivolous lawsuits. And so the goal was to eliminate the frivolous lawsuits.

The other issue that exists underlying this conversation is, is that it's gonna be really difficult for people to prove the direct causation on COVID. I mean, there are going to be situations in which you can establish a link. But in a lot of situations, it's not going to be possible to show that clearly. And so it would be an appropriate response at the federal level to set forth clear lines of what standards have to be met in order to pursue that litigation. You know, we hope for a federal solution. I would be happy with a state solution.


If there's a standard of care that's set, then the insurance company can price policies against whether or not the schools are adhering to it. In the absence of a standard, they can't price anything.
 
2020-08-04 4:53:18 PM  

halifaxdatageek: You know, our Weeners to everything is to sue.


Damn it, filter :P
 
2020-08-04 4:56:15 PM  

Nadie_AZ: The Arizona School Risk Retention Trust, which provides coverage for nearly 250 school districts in the state, notified members that it will not provide coverage for claims related to coronavirus. The trust operates as a pool of school districts and is backed by reinsurance companies, and it's now considering some other options.

... I hate the politics of this state so much. Bunch of selfish arrogant sons of biatches who only care about receiving out of state money and don't care much about how that happens.

I mean, look at our water situation:

One day, I'm guessing the residents of Arizona will wake up and wonder: when did we lose our state? When did rural Arizona dry up and blow away?

When we do, we should remember this month, when the Arizona Legislature once again ignored common sense and the pleas of the people who live in areas where the groundwater is being sucked dry beneath their feet.
And there is nothing they can do about it.

The Legislature could do something but won't, thanks to a pair of rural lawmakers in the pocket of agricultural interests and the apparent indifference of legislative leaders who could override them.

The Arizona Republic's Ian James and Rob O'Dell have reported on the plummeting water tables in rural Arizona where mega farms owned by out-of-state businesses are sucking up the supply at astounding rates.

Arizona. For Sale to anyone with money. But we prefer it if you f*ck us over with a rusty chainsaw while you are at it.


According to the Arizona Department of Water Resources, agriculture accounts for 68 percent of water use in Arizona.

I'm surprised it's so low
 
2020-08-04 4:59:20 PM  
If you can't afford a month long hospital stay for yourself or family, better not send your kid back to school.
 
2020-08-04 5:00:24 PM  

halifaxdatageek: If there's a standard of care that's set, then the insurance company can price policies against whether or not the schools are adhering to it. In the absence of a standard, they can't price anything.


For example, there is a clear and unambiguous standard for operating a restaurant in Nova Scotia right now: http://rans.ca/files/shares/Reopening​%​20Guide_Revised_Jun22_2020-compressed.​pdf

This is largely the same as their existing practices (store cooked meat above raw meat, for instance) with some additions (tables must be bare between dining parties, to allow for complete sanitization).
 
2020-08-04 5:05:04 PM  
Does this mean that this is Trumps Death Panel?
 
2020-08-04 5:07:44 PM  

halifaxdatageek: I don't view this as the insurer screwing over schools, I view it as both the insurers and the schools getting screwed over by the feds.

GILGER: So is that the solution you would look toward? Do you think this needs to come from a policy level?

LITTLE: In my opinion, the best solution is at a federal level. If they set a uniform standard by which negligence has to be proven, then it certainly will avoid the issue of having to defend frivolous lawsuits. Unfortunately, we love to litigate as a nation. You know, our Weeners to everything is to sue. And unfortunately, the very nature of the system is, is that people sue for frivolous items, but unfortunately, organizations settle because it's cheaper to settle than it is to fight. So you can be right, but it still costs you money to defend yourself from frivolous lawsuits. And so the goal was to eliminate the frivolous lawsuits.

The other issue that exists underlying this conversation is, is that it's gonna be really difficult for people to prove the direct causation on COVID. I mean, there are going to be situations in which you can establish a link. But in a lot of situations, it's not going to be possible to show that clearly. And so it would be an appropriate response at the federal level to set forth clear lines of what standards have to be met in order to pursue that litigation. You know, we hope for a federal solution. I would be happy with a state solution.

If there's a standard of care that's set, then the insurance company can price policies against whether or not the schools are adhering to it. In the absence of a standard, they can't price anything.


I agree, the person being interviewed was very clear about what was needed. No hyperbole or pointless meandering.

"We can't insure if no one will tell us what our standard of proof is". Like, someone with a kid in a school gets COVID, sees the school board has insurance, sues school, hope kid catches it before anyone checks to see where they really got it....
 
2020-08-04 5:11:08 PM  
USA! USA! USA!
 
2020-08-04 5:13:27 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-04 5:13:56 PM  

halifaxdatageek: I don't view this as the insurer screwing over schools, I view it as both the insurers and the schools getting screwed over by the feds.


You sound Canadian, so let me assure you that no insurance company down here is getting screwed over by anyone.
 
2020-08-04 5:15:35 PM  
When you cannot trust anyone else -- the government, the press, the clergy, or your parents, look to the actuaries. They assess risk all the time, and their analysis affects millions of dollars. If an insurance company won't insure you, you might as well start picking out your casket.
 
2020-08-04 5:17:25 PM  
Never thought of that one. I've said before there will be many repercussions from this you can't predict. Didn't see this one and this school district won't be the last.
 
2020-08-04 5:17:52 PM  

macadamnut: halifaxdatageek: I don't view this as the insurer screwing over schools, I view it as both the insurers and the schools getting screwed over by the feds.

You sound Canadian, so let me assure you that no insurance company down here is getting screwed over by anyone.


Nonsense, all those advertisements during football games are because they're short on cash and desperate for new customers.
 
2020-08-04 5:18:46 PM  
This is not just a state thing.   Congress is working on making all businesses and government immune to COVID19 lawsuits, thanks to canned legislation from ALEC.
 
2020-08-04 5:25:40 PM  
This is a really good reason to do home schooling in Arizona.

This will also probably sink the Arizona education system.

Insurance companies know if they try to cover this it will bankrupt them.
 
2020-08-04 5:28:02 PM  

Eli WhiskeyDik: USA! USA! USA!


What was the term economists used about Wall Street before the last economic collapse? Oh yeah; irrational exuberance.

I think we're seeing that here.
 
2020-08-04 5:28:37 PM  

halifaxdatageek: halifaxdatageek: If there's a standard of care that's set, then the insurance company can price policies against whether or not the schools are adhering to it. In the absence of a standard, they can't price anything.

For example, there is a clear and unambiguous standard for operating a restaurant in Nova Scotia right now: http://rans.ca/files/shares/Reopening%​20Guide_Revised_Jun22_2020-compressed.​pdf

This is largely the same as their existing practices (store cooked meat above raw meat, for instance) with some additions (tables must be bare between dining parties, to allow for complete sanitization).


I'm assuming that the Trust is a non-profit and that nobody's getting rich off it.  About the only thing I can see is a "pay as you go" agreement, which nobody wants to do because not only does everybody know that it's gonna be really expensive, even if nobody decides to drop out, but it's going to be something that hangs around for several years after.  Like you say, there's nothing to base projections on, as there is in other insurances.  (I have some experience in Workers Comp, but not actuarial experience)  For example, when you have a new type of industry that is different from others, you can base the rates on similar industries until it develops its own rate.  With COVID, not only has the thing only been around a short time, but experience with it has been pretty inconsistent and variable - sure, it's there and it's real, and we know there are gonna be costs, but there are innumerable factors that are going to affect them.
 
2020-08-04 5:32:23 PM  
so much of that article is proof that the person being interviewed has zero farking knowledge about insurance. Or reinsurance markets, for that matter.

Also, in the eyes of the insurance world, waivers are utterly useless unless the insurance company issued the waiver. And even then, its not called a waiver, its called an exclusion endorsement.

Now, if they had every teacher, parent and child (along with all vendors, contractors and sub-contractors) sign a hold harmless agreement, that would be an entirely different story, one with which the insurance company would pay attention to, and even accept, to a certain degree.

One of the big issues with a waiver being enforced, is that they are almost never worded correctly and easily argued against in court.

You might be able to get a Waiver of Subrogation, but again, it would be so overly broad that there is no way any reinsurer would ever accept that type of risk.  More surprised that they aren't self-insuring. But that just depends how its being financed. If its through any type of gov funding, no way the self-insure.

Bottom line, if you are hoping that liability and casualty insurance will help reinforce your notion of opening schools, your sadly mistaken.
 
2020-08-04 5:33:45 PM  

kb7rky: "...won't cover coronavirus claims..."

Because they know they'll be bankrupt inside of a week if that happens.


exactly , i am only surprised we are not seeing this is more states but then again i have no clue how the various states mandate and handle liability coverage at public schools.
 
2020-08-04 5:38:41 PM  

zeaper12: 40 degree day: This should be a wake up call. The insurance company is telling them that the harm to the public from opening the school will be catastrophic.

Don't yeah love it when insurance companies dictate public policy.


Dictating public policy is not what they're doing. The schools can do what they want, but they are going to be responsible for the consequences. That is the very essence of freedom.
 
2020-08-04 5:46:28 PM  
Where did this idea come from that we weren't all eventually going to get Covid19?
 
2020-08-04 6:12:18 PM  

pedrop357: Where did this idea come from that we weren't all eventually going to get Covid19?


The same place that said going to church or to a strip club will kill us because we will die in the chaos of everyone trying to get through the entrance at the same  time.
 
2020-08-04 6:20:50 PM  

brizzle365: so much of that article is proof that the person being interviewed has zero farking knowledge about insurance. Or reinsurance markets, for that matter.


I mean, one would hope they did, given they run one of Arizona's largest insurers.
 
2020-08-04 6:26:17 PM  

40 degree day: This should be a wake up call. The insurance company is telling them that the harm to the public from opening the school will be catastrophic.



well, the harm from litigation is perhaps unbounded and unknowable at this stage and the insurer does not want to participate in that market before it knows the actuarials better.
 
2020-08-04 6:29:06 PM  

pedrop357: Where did this idea come from that we weren't all eventually going to get Covid19?


history.
 
2020-08-04 6:30:45 PM  

pedrop357: Where did this idea come from that we weren't all eventually going to get Covid19?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-04 6:55:13 PM  

Stud Gerbil: This is not just a state thing.   Congress is working on making all businesses and government immune to COVID19 lawsuits, thanks to canned legislation from ALEC.


If a government makes itself immune to redressing grievances, the population has another solution to air their grievances. I hope they haven't forgotten that.
 
2020-08-04 6:58:14 PM  

pedrop357: Where did this idea come from that we weren't all eventually going to get Covid19?


It's not necessary that we all get Covid 19 if we get a vaccine in time. That's what we're waiting for. Herd immunity through virus burnout is the hard way.
 
2020-08-04 7:04:23 PM  

waxbeans: whither_apophis: A dozen school shootings and fark all has been done. Is anyone surprised that they want to send kids back to school in a pandemic?

The thing is some of the people want this not to educate their dumb kids. They just don't like dealing with their stupid kids.
LOL


It's also the only real meal many get during the day.  I kid you not.
 
2020-08-04 7:09:32 PM  

Turbo Cojones: waxbeans: whither_apophis: A dozen school shootings and fark all has been done. Is anyone surprised that they want to send kids back to school in a pandemic?

The thing is some of the people want this not to educate their dumb kids. They just don't like dealing with their stupid kids.
LOL

It's also the only real meal many get during the day.  I kid you not.


That needs to be fix. Schools aren't the fix. Their a band aid.
I don't know how people support not feeding kids. WTF? Conservatives need to be shamed.
 
2020-08-04 7:11:26 PM  
The Republicans are forcing kids back to school to kill the public education system.
 
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