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(Daily Star)   America: "Blackface is offensive now." Britain: "Hold my warm beer" (possible nsfw content on page)   (dailystar.co.uk) divider line
    More: Stupid, Dance, Bacup, Release, Border Morris, black makeup, group of Lancashire clog-dancers, national morris, recent Black Lives Matter protests  
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3836 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Aug 2020 at 3:04 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-04 1:17:37 PM  
*a zwarte piet appears*
 
2020-08-04 3:08:03 PM  
If coal-related blackface is now verboten, is Mary Poppins next on the cancellation agenda?
 
2020-08-04 3:10:46 PM  

Dork Gently: If coal-related blackface is now verboten, is Mary Poppins next on the cancellation agenda?


One can only hope.
 
2020-08-04 3:11:18 PM  
The Morris in Morris dancing is a corruption of moorish... I think the coal mining excuse is pretty thin
 
2020-08-04 3:12:19 PM  
So black folks culturally appropriated coal miner coloring?! smh!!!
 
2020-08-04 3:12:23 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-04 3:12:52 PM  
It's offensive now, subby?

I'm not that young a dude anymore, and it's been offensive longer than I've been alive.
 
2020-08-04 3:13:27 PM  
Their argument may have had merit if the group didn't have coconut in its name. But it does have coconut in its name so just give up the blackface already...
 
2020-08-04 3:13:48 PM  
Morris Dancing is already silly/weird/creepy in itself, no need to add racism to it.

Stealing Sheep - Apparition
Youtube xFWGrNR_mog
 
2020-08-04 3:14:43 PM  

Dork Gently: If coal-related blackface is now verboten, is Mary Poppins next on the cancellation agenda?


Now, that's just a case of a bad accent.

This offensive behaviour was once widely practiced in the office
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-04 3:15:00 PM  
Just dont be white and you'll have your tradition protected by the UN.
 
2020-08-04 3:15:48 PM  
There is just so much from TFA to unpack and uncrazy.

One needn't stray far from the opening line of the piece.

FTA: "A group of Lancashire clog-dancers who wear black makeup as they dance along the streets of Bacup bashing coconuts together have clashed with the national morris dancing organisation one racism claims."

What has one racism claimed? How does one racism claim anything at all? Are we moving out of racism being an inanimate object and has now become sentient?

Is it possible that we may be pushing everything "black" so far towards the spectrum of, anything and everything said or associated by a white person, towards a black person, regardless of how innocent or having nothing to do with race, push the racial equality agenda so far to the fringes, that you litterally cannot say anything or do anything, because it will be racist, because you are white? Which, in and of itself, is the very deffinition of racism?.

Is that not exactly what Terry Crews was afraid of and attempted to warn all of us of, in the most pectoral way possible?
 
2020-08-04 3:17:49 PM  
cdn-static.sidereel.comView Full Size

2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size

"WOOSTER!"
 
2020-08-04 3:18:41 PM  

I'm no expert but...: Their argument may have had merit if the group didn't have coconut in its name. But it does have coconut in its name so just give up the blackface already...


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-04 3:19:45 PM  
Jason Ogg seen sheepishly hiding his bucket and mop...
 
2020-08-04 3:21:40 PM  

Dork Gently: If coal-related blackface is now verboten, is Mary Poppins next on the cancellation agenda?


Well, this is where it gets difficult. She's a woman.
 
2020-08-04 3:22:58 PM  
In other news, bored weirdos still jump around in clogs.
 
2020-08-04 3:23:07 PM  
It's not about you, it was never about you, and it doesn't involve you.

Better get it banned.
 
2020-08-04 3:26:23 PM  
It's like I've always never said: Ban coal mining, end racism. Easy peasy.
 
2020-08-04 3:28:05 PM  
But members of one group, The Britannia Coconut Dancers, insist that painting their faces black is a tribute to the area's coal-mining past rather than having any racial connotations.

Yeah! They're just paying tribute to the traditional and extensive use of coconuts in...*checks notes*...British coal mining.
 
2020-08-04 3:32:53 PM  
Clog-dancers insist makeup is a throwback to their region's ancient coal-mining history and has no racial connotations... as they dance along the streets of Bacup bashing coconuts together...
 
2020-08-04 3:33:09 PM  
Britain: Hold my Warmbier
North Korea: Wouldn't be the first time
 
2020-08-04 3:34:49 PM  

batlock666: Morris Dancing is already silly/weird/creepy in itself, no need to add racism to it.

[YouTube video: Stealing Sheep - Apparition]


I think I know why the sun finally set on the British empire.
 
2020-08-04 3:39:12 PM  

Intrepid00: batlock666: Morris Dancing is already silly/weird/creepy in itself, no need to add racism to it.

[YouTube video: Stealing Sheep - Apparition]

I think I know why the sun finally set on the British empire.


Because they gave it away... fools.
 
2020-08-04 3:40:54 PM  

SirMadness: It's not about you, it was never about you, and it doesn't involve you.

Better get it banned.


That was my vote on the Sports tab. If it wasn't going to include board games and run my blog article about my triumphant win over Cheesefoot McGee in Stratego back in my halycon days of 2nd grade, then what good was it?
 
2020-08-04 3:43:32 PM  
This is racist blackface.  What they are doing is not.

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2020-08-04 3:44:12 PM  

EdgeRunner: It's offensive now, subby?

I'm not that young a dude anymore, and it's been offensive longer than I've been alive.


It's a bit more complicated in Europe.

In the US, there's a clear connection between Blackface and Minstrel Shows, so its always been pretty offensive.

In many parts of Europe you don't have that same Minstrel Show connection, but might have something else.  For example, in Spain there's a belief that one of the 3 Wise Men was black, so white Spaniards have historically dressed up as a black guy to honor that Wise Man.  In the Netherlands, Santa has a funny Moorish helper named Black Pete, and it is considered normal for Dutch people to dress up as Black Pete just like they do Santa.

There's certainly a lot more discomfort about stuff like that nowadays, especially as European countries are having more and more problems with racism as previously very white countries get more immigrants.  But I think that we do have to acknowledge that dressing up as a Wise Man (supposedly) to honor him in Spain might be a bit different than dressing up as a black dude to be funny in the US.

That doesn't mean that I'm saying that all European blackface is fine, but context does complicate things a bit here.
 
2020-08-04 3:53:22 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: This is racist blackface.  What they are doing is not.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 427x600]


"Camptown Races" sung by Al Jolson
Youtube _tuu5YtkPIo

In for a dime, in for a dollar...
 
2020-08-04 3:55:16 PM  
I thought black face was more of an american thing. They banned black actors - blackface.

Does England have some film industry that did the same?

We are going to get in crazy wokeness if apply anything from any culture that could be offensive everywhere.
 
2020-08-04 3:56:48 PM  

Krazikarl: EdgeRunner: It's offensive now, subby?


There's certainly a lot more discomfort about stuff like that nowadays, especially as European countries are having more and more problems with racism as previously very white countries get more immigrants.


European countries are having more problems with racism lately? huh weird. Must've missed the bit where a good chunk of them raped and pillaged their way around the entire globe.
 
2020-08-04 4:03:00 PM  

GrogSmash: Jason Ogg seen sheepishly hiding his bucket and mop...


We never mention the stick and bucket dance

Or the dark Morris
 
2020-08-04 4:03:36 PM  

skiinstructor: NotThatGuyAgain: This is racist blackface.  What they are doing is not.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 427x600]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/_tuu5Ytk​PIo]
In for a dime, in for a dollar...


my preferred version

Blazing Saddles, Camp Town Ladies
Youtube 0H2W1lK7P-I
 
2020-08-04 4:09:31 PM  

Krazikarl: EdgeRunner: It's offensive now, subby?

I'm not that young a dude anymore, and it's been offensive longer than I've been alive.

It's a bit more complicated in Europe.

In the US, there's a clear connection between Blackface and Minstrel Shows, so its always been pretty offensive.

In many parts of Europe you don't have that same Minstrel Show connection, but might have something else.  For example, in Spain there's a belief that one of the 3 Wise Men was black, so white Spaniards have historically dressed up as a black guy to honor that Wise Man.  In the Netherlands, Santa has a funny Moorish helper named Black Pete, and it is considered normal for Dutch people to dress up as Black Pete just like they do Santa.

There's certainly a lot more discomfort about stuff like that nowadays, especially as European countries are having more and more problems with racism as previously very white countries get more immigrants.  But I think that we do have to acknowledge that dressing up as a Wise Man (supposedly) to honor him in Spain might be a bit different than dressing up as a black dude to be funny in the US.

That doesn't mean that I'm saying that all European blackface is fine, but context does complicate things a bit here.


Context always complicates things, but sometimes it isn't worth the fight to preserve questionable little holdovers of tradition that were slowly fading out on their own anyway. The complaint isn't entirely unreasonable even if it doesn't directly correlate to the larger problem.
 
2020-08-04 4:36:14 PM  
Brownface still ok?
The Best of Ben Jabituya / Short Circuit
Youtube K6TLYwelOPk
 
2020-08-04 4:38:45 PM  

batlock666: Morris Dancing is already silly/weird/creepy in itself, no need to add racism to it.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/xFWGrNR_​mog]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-04 4:43:18 PM  

skiinstructor: NotThatGuyAgain: This is racist blackface.  What they are doing is not.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 427x600]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/_tuu5Ytk​PIo]
In for a dime, in for a dollar...


The "Camptown Ladies"?
Blazing Saddles, Camp Town Ladies
Youtube 0H2W1lK7P-I
 
2020-08-04 4:46:15 PM  

EdgeRunner: It's offensive now, subby?

I'm not that young a dude anymore, and it's been offensive longer than I've been alive.


Only in America.
 
2020-08-04 5:00:41 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: EdgeRunner: It's offensive now, subby?

I'm not that young a dude anymore, and it's been offensive longer than I've been alive.

Only in America.


Fark user imageView Full Size

This ran on European TV till 1978. This wasn't offensive?
 
2020-08-04 5:05:24 PM  

I'm no expert but...: Their argument may have had merit if the group didn't have coconut in its name. But it does have coconut in its name so just give up the blackface already...


Lime in the coconut by Harry Nilsson
Youtube Kz8_ZePCTqM
 
2020-08-04 5:09:21 PM  

EdgeRunner: Tyrone Slothrop: EdgeRunner: It's offensive now, subby?

I'm not that young a dude anymore, and it's been offensive longer than I've been alive.

Only in America.

[Fark user image image 302x329]
This ran on European TV till 1978. This wasn't offensive?


Beat me to it, they stilled showed clips of this show until the 90's but now it's been (pardon the expression) whitewashed from the history of British television.. as it should have been way earlier than it was. We had numerous shows that contained black and brown face up until the 1990s yet weirdly the shows that should be reshown such as mind your language and Desmond's that showed multicultural Britain in their time periods are essentially forgotten..
 
2020-08-04 5:12:27 PM  
So you can't show old pictures of coalminers either?
 
2020-08-04 5:39:28 PM  

A'isha P.: But members of one group, The Britannia Coconut Dancers, insist that painting their faces black is a tribute to the area's coal-mining past rather than having any racial connotations.

Yeah! They're just paying tribute to the traditional and extensive use of coconuts in...*checks notes*...British coal mining.


Where'd they even get those coconuts?
 
2020-08-04 5:39:36 PM  
those are chimney sweep guys
 
2020-08-04 5:46:33 PM  
Morris dancing 'blackface' split sees group ban 'Coco-Nutters' troupe from community

I think I just had a stroke trying to parse this headline.
 
2020-08-04 6:06:00 PM  

Joshudan: A'isha P.: But members of one group, The Britannia Coconut Dancers, insist that painting their faces black is a tribute to the area's coal-mining past rather than having any racial connotations.

Yeah! They're just paying tribute to the traditional and extensive use of coconuts in...*checks notes*...British coal mining.

Where'd they even get those coconuts?


Swallows, obviously.
 
2020-08-04 6:15:35 PM  

Krazikarl: EdgeRunner: It's offensive now, subby?

I'm not that young a dude anymore, and it's been offensive longer than I've been alive.

It's a bit more complicated in Europe.

In the US, there's a clear connection between Blackface and Minstrel Shows, so its always been pretty offensive.

In many parts of Europe you don't have that same Minstrel Show connection, but might have something else.  For example, in Spain there's a belief that one of the 3 Wise Men was black, so white Spaniards have historically dressed up as a black guy to honor that Wise Man.  In the Netherlands, Santa has a funny Moorish helper named Black Pete, and it is considered normal for Dutch people to dress up as Black Pete just like they do Santa.

There's certainly a lot more discomfort about stuff like that nowadays, especially as European countries are having more and more problems with racism as previously very white countries get more immigrants.  But I think that we do have to acknowledge that dressing up as a Wise Man (supposedly) to honor him in Spain might be a bit different than dressing up as a black dude to be funny in the US.

That doesn't mean that I'm saying that all European blackface is fine, but context does complicate things a bit here.


"Saint Nicklaus and his 3 or 4 black friends." -- David Sedaris
 
2020-08-04 6:18:59 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: This is racist blackface.  What they are doing is not.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 427x600]


Absolutely. It would be nice if Americans could realise that their history, culture and traditions are not universal and stopped trying to enforce them on the rest of the world.
 
2020-08-04 6:22:57 PM  

rcain: Strange how according to tradition that "funny little helper" Black Pete would kidnap unruly children and take them to Spain to work as moorish slaves


You just made that up. It isn't part of the Dutch tradition. Santa, on the other hand, has an entire toy-making operation staff by enslaved dwarves.
 
2020-08-04 6:24:42 PM  

Joshudan: Where'd they even get those coconuts?


They are made of bobbins, symbolic of the cotton spinning heritage of the area, and they are castanets rather than coconuts.
 
2020-08-04 6:53:03 PM  

rcain: Strange how according to tradition that "funny little helper" Black Pete would kidnap unruly children and take them to Spain to work as moorish slaves

Not very funny and completely farking racist. You might want to actually research those traditions you know nothing about and regard as "cute"


The kidnapping children aspect only occurs in a few very old songs about Sinterklaas and isn't a fundamental part of the Black Pete story.  Those songs really only occurred when the Barbary slave trade was actively taking place.  During that time, (white) Dutch people were actively being kidnapped and sold as slaves by the Barbary Pirates.  It's kind of the opposite of what we normally think of as the slave trade.

As soon as the Barbary slave trade died down, that part of the Black Pete story disappeared.  It hasn't been part of the Dutch tradition in many centuries.  It isn't clear to me that a couple of songs during a time when (white) people were actively being kidnapped and sold as slaves means what you think it does.

Wikipedia, the source of all knowledge, provides a reasonable summary:

Some of the older Sinterklaas songs make mention of naughty children being put in Zwarte Piet's bag and being taken back to Spain. This part of the legend refers to the times that the Moors raided the European coasts, and as far as Iceland, to abduct the local people into slavery. This quality can be found in other companions of Saint Nicholas such as Krampus and Père Fouettard.[8] In modern versions of the Sinterklaas feast, however, Zwarte Piet no longer carries the roe and children are no longer told that they will be taken back to Spain in Zwarte Piet's bag if they have been naughty.
 
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