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(Fark)   Will already-dwindling pre-pandemic churchgoers realize life is better without mundane weekly services treating them like mindless sheep? Is Covid-19 the death knell for Sunday Mass? And what is best way to deprogram after decades of indoctrination?   (fark.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Taco Bell, Marcus Aurelius, Yum! Brands, Heavy metal music, Cascading Style Sheets, Sports, Salvation, pandemic churchgoers  
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85 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 03 Aug 2020 at 1:08 PM (25 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-03 10:10:31 AM  
Key parties.
 
2020-08-03 10:16:38 AM  
Massive drug-fueled pansexual orgy. Make sure there's a buffet and a fully-stocked bar for extra hedonism
 
2020-08-03 10:17:28 AM  
Read the Book. Start with Matthew 6. You'll never go back.
 
2020-08-03 10:37:18 AM  
A cracker, a sip of wine, and mouthing some mea culpas is a small price to pay for eternal salvation.
 
2020-08-03 11:08:11 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: A cracker, a sip of wine, and mouthing some mea culpas is a small price to pay for eternal salvation.


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2020-08-03 11:15:34 AM  
The last 15 minutes of George Carlin - You Are All Diseased, on repeat.
 
2020-08-03 11:21:40 AM  

jasonvatch: Marcus Aurelius: A cracker, a sip of wine, and mouthing some mea culpas is a small price to pay for eternal salvation.

[Fark user image 311x162]


Don't tell everyone!
 
2020-08-03 1:51:45 PM  
Religion of the Month Club
"How can you be sure Bantu isn't the true path to salvation?"
 
2020-08-03 2:10:43 PM  

jasonvatch: Read the Book. Start with Matthew 6. You'll never go back.


Importantly, read the book UNSUPERVISED.  Don't let some clown invested in an agenda tell you what it means. When it doesn't make sense, it's because it doesn't make sense.
 
2020-08-03 2:32:46 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: A cracker, a sip of wine, and mouthing some mea culpas is a small price to pay for eternal salvation...

... for those that happen to be born into a chance and choice to learn about and do that.

Meanwhile, the world that god has supposedly been responsible for creating punishes untold BILLIONS of helpless Indian, Chinese (,etc) men, women and children's souls because they were born into the wrong culture --- which was part of god's plan. Wait, whut?

So god eternally tortures babies' and children's souls for being born where he wanted them born, without a chance to ever be "saved".

/ Sounds legit.
// Did I say legit? I meant, Bullshiat
/// Can humanity please grow up and shed primitive fairy tales now?
 
2020-08-03 3:22:18 PM  
This is why we need FOOTBALL back.
 
2020-08-03 3:27:22 PM  

dionysusaur: jasonvatch: Read the Book. Start with Matthew 6. You'll never go back.

Importantly, read the book UNSUPERVISED.  Don't let some clown invested in an agenda tell you what it means. When it doesn't make sense, it's because it doesn't make sense.


Or, attend a church that preaches emphasis on the gospels, and discussion about the contradictions, and encourages further discussions.  One where Paul's letters are not held as trump cards to what's in the gospels.
Episcopalians generally meet this level, though some parishes are still a bit, shall we say, a Sunday lunch club which doesn't want to change or discuss anything.  Shop carefully, do the homework, and realize that every human you're dealing with flawed in some way.
Even when they don't want to admit it themselves.
 
2020-08-03 4:09:33 PM  

CrosswordWithAPen: dionysusaur: jasonvatch: Read the Book. Start with Matthew 6. You'll never go back.

Importantly, read the book UNSUPERVISED.  Don't let some clown invested in an agenda tell you what it means. When it doesn't make sense, it's because it doesn't make sense.

Or, attend a church that preaches emphasis on ... ... ...  Shop carefully,...


Here's the thing.

If you are shopping around to find a Church that meets your particular worldview/morals/interpretations, then you are NOT following the guidance of any church! You are IN FACT following your OWN guidance! (But you are pretending it's the church's guidance).

You must realize, this IS good news. It means Goodness and Morals have been within YOU all along! It means you are innately a good person, not because there are commandments not to murder, steal, etc, but because you understand what is morally right and wrong to you.

Religious stories'/rules were very useful in a barbaric stone age, near the dawn of modern civilisation (Yes, even "An eye for an eye" was very good then --- it de-escalated potential tribal warfare at a time and place where nobody could call up some trusty police/judge to handle a situation).

I understand the feeling from a religious perspective, that atheists must be empty of morals, and ready to do awful things on a whim. But you must understand that is naive, and obviously wrong. The safest nations in the world, with the least amount of crime, theft, murder, and rape, are the least religious ones --- and they are also among the most advanced.

Morals come largely from within. Don't shop around for a fairy tale that suits your needs, with all the baggage, conflicts and repercussions those fairy tales come with.

Be proud of struggling with and legitimizing the minutia of your morals on their merits. It should be every persons rite of passage. It's so much deeper and giving than just following something because a book says so. It's so much better to be able to justify a set of morals on logical grounds than to dangerously rely on (as countless people have, and still do), "It is written in the holy book, therefore it is the right thing".

"Good people do good.things.
Bad people do bad things.
But in order to get good people to do bad things, all you need is religion"
 
2020-08-03 4:24:09 PM  

ChibiDebuHage: CrosswordWithAPen: dionysusaur: jasonvatch: Read the Book. Start with Matthew 6. You'll never go back.

Importantly, read the book UNSUPERVISED.  Don't let some clown invested in an agenda tell you what it means. When it doesn't make sense, it's because it doesn't make sense.

Or, attend a church that preaches emphasis on ... ... ...  Shop carefully,...

Here's the thing.

If you are shopping around to find a Church that meets your particular worldview/morals/interpretations, then you are NOT following the guidance of any church! You are IN FACT following your OWN guidance! (But you are pretending it's the church's guidance).

You must realize, this IS good news. It means Goodness and Morals have been within YOU all along! It means you are innately a good person, not because there are commandments not to murder, steal, etc, but because you understand what is morally right and wrong to you.

Religious stories'/rules were very useful in a barbaric stone age, near the dawn of modern civilisation (Yes, even "An eye for an eye" was very good then --- it de-escalated potential tribal warfare at a time and place where nobody could call up some trusty police/judge to handle a situation).

I understand the feeling from a religious perspective, that atheists must be empty of morals, and ready to do awful things on a whim. But you must understand that is naive, and obviously wrong. The safest nations in the world, with the least amount of crime, theft, murder, and rape, are the least religious ones --- and they are also among the most advanced.

Morals come largely from within. Don't shop around for a fairy tale that suits your needs, with all the baggage, conflicts and repercussions those fairy tales come with.

Be proud of struggling with and legitimizing the minutia of your morals on their merits. It should be every persons rite of passage. It's so much deeper and giving than just following something because a book says so. It's so much better to be able to justify a set of ...


"Shopping" is a rather generic term, as I intended it.  Analogous in outward activity, but with a greater personal value.
Your journey is different from mine.  I wish you a peaceful, successful one.
 
2020-08-03 4:38:11 PM  
Mentioned earlier, but have them READ THE FARKING BIBLE. Most never have. If they come back saying it is the inerrant word of god, have them read again just the first 2 chapters of Genesis, then ask them WHICH creation story is true? The one in chapter 1 or 2? Yes, flawed right out of the gate.
 
2020-08-03 4:40:38 PM  
My mother-in-law, a converted Catholic, was quite put off when everyone attending a first communion promised to mask up and observe safe social distance and then proceeded to not do that. She will probably go back once things are safer, but in the meantime that church will have to do without their best pianist.

Churches are apt to lose congregants because they don't make the necessary efforts to keep people safe, and not just because some of them get sick and, maybe, die; they will lose some other congregants who get pissed off about the lack of concern shown by the people running the show.
 
2020-08-03 5:12:37 PM  
For some reason, the Episcopal mission I worship with seems to be handling COVID with some aplomb. In one of those "parish-building" exercises, we settled on "scrappy" to describe ourselves, and we have been just that.

It would be great to sing together and share Eucharist.  Spiritual Eucharist just doesn't seem the same.

Still, a bunch of us set up a car parade for a member's 100th birthday.  Those who pledge, pledge.  And we continue to go through the Lectionary, which this summer is taking us through the Hebrew patriarchs and matriarchs -- we are at Jacob, Leah and Rachel.
 
2020-08-03 5:21:07 PM  
I went from devout practicing Catholic to agnostic in less than a week. Doubt came from within. So, imagining there's a Best Practices about it seems a bit weird to me. My sister (still RC) went from Young Republican to Flaming Liberal in around the same span of time.

Who knows what makes people change?
 
2020-08-03 7:17:22 PM  
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I went to church on Sunday and I felt good for most of the day.
 
2020-08-03 11:46:21 PM  

CrosswordWithAPen: Shopping" is a rather generic term, as I intended it.


I sincerely wish you truth and luck in your journey.

I don't understand how your usage of the term "shopping" is any different than mine.

Apparently you are talking about looking for something that is comfortable or resonates with who you already are.

You are looking for something that follows you, not the other way around.

That is good news - you are capable of pursuing goodness all by yourself,.you don't need training wheels anymore.
 
2020-08-04 3:58:53 AM  

TimeCubeFan: Mentioned earlier, but have them READ THE FARKING BIBLE. Most never have. If they come back saying it is the inerrant word of god, have them read again just the first 2 chapters of Genesis, then ask them WHICH creation story is true? The one in chapter 1 or 2? Yes, flawed right out of the gate.


And maybe ask them who told the truth in the Garden of Eden, the serpent or God. I don't know how many times I read it before I realized it was the serpent.
 
2020-08-04 10:01:18 AM  
I recently quit my job at a catholic church and, being privy to attendance figures, the long term trend is declining numbers at Mass.  Many of those still coming before the pandemic were just looking for a reason to stop. Its obvious they will jump forward on that trend line 3-5 years once the restrictions are done.
Running a lot churches today is about understanding and managing decline.
 
2020-08-04 10:57:56 AM  

darkman2000: I recently quit my job at a catholic church and, being privy to attendance figures, the long term trend is declining numbers at Mass.  Many of those still coming before the pandemic were just looking for a reason to stop. Its obvious they will jump forward on that trend line 3-5 years once the restrictions are done.
Running a lot churches today is about understanding and managing decline.


What happens when a given church is no longer viable? The land is sold, and the proceeds go to the state's archdiocese? (Surely not to the Vatican?)

Yes, I could totally see the pandemic being a catalyst for what was going to happen naturally in the long run....ever more dwindling numbers.
 
2020-08-04 11:23:41 AM  
We have closed churches in consolidations.  The land is sold, some churches choose to demolish the church building itself rather than have it become a retail location or non catholic church (the church is always 'de-sanctified' prior to close).  Others leave the building.  There's always lots of drama at a time like that.  It's most fun to hear from people in the community who are upset a landmark is being destroyed and it's too bad there isn't money to keep it going.  Well, where you during every fund raiser they had?  But also, most priests are incompetent at finances and too many won't listen to those lay people who are and so things fail; starting with deferred maintenance...
 
2020-08-04 11:43:19 AM  
"God works in mysterious ways" ;)

Those dynamics and drama actually sound interesting.
Somenody should film a documentary showcasing several closing churches. It's a unique societal transition snapshot we won't be able to have 50 years from now.
 
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