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(The Hollywood Reporter)   "History, when taught well, shows us how to improve the world, but history, when taught poorly, falsely claims there is nothing to improve," John Oliver castigates the US education system, where 17 states use "state's rights" as the Civil War's cause   (hollywoodreporter.com) divider line
    More: Hero, Slavery, Slavery in the United States, Racism, American Civil War, John Oliver, Sunday's show, white supremacy, state standards  
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1153 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Aug 2020 at 10:37 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-03 8:55:13 AM  
Are these the same states that have sex abstinence only programs? Or pushes creationism over Darwinism?
 
2020-08-03 9:04:20 AM  
"that's like half", southern voters say.
 
2020-08-03 10:11:04 AM  
Yet again, dual sovereignty resulting in a race to the bottom.
 
2020-08-03 10:16:24 AM  
States rights to own slaves?
 
2020-08-03 10:23:27 AM  

Merltech: Are these the same states that have sex abstinence only programs? Or pushes creationism over Darwinism?


Last I checked it was still illegal for states to promote "creationism" specifically. Edwards v. Aguillard slammed the door on that pretty hard, and Kitzmiller v. Dover (while not a supreme court case) showed pretty clearly that attempting to rebrand creationism as "intelligent design" was a disingenuous end-run around the Edwards ruling. (In fact, the book at the center of that case was demonstrated to have had a word-processor search-and-replace run to change "creationists" to "design proponents," which was botched and showed up in one place as "cdesign proponentists")

I haven't followed state-level farkery regarding creationism as closely for the last few years as I did during the aughts, but my understanding is that most promotions of creationism at the state level have been reduced to weaselly "academic freedom" bills which encourage teachers to "discuss the strengths and weaknesses of evolutionary theory." Essentially states can't really mandate that creationist challenges to evolution be taught anymore, but they can provide cover for fundamentalist teachers who want to spout creationist bullshiat in class.

I'm not sure how often that actually happens in practice, or if current efforts to screw with federal courts have allowed new creationist efforts to flourish in the last three years, but in theory they can't do that anymore.
 
2020-08-03 10:27:32 AM  
Americans want the right to believe whatever they want


Fark user imageView Full Size

 
2020-08-03 10:33:07 AM  
Are we talking about a real state's right like the right to own people? Or fake ones like gay rights or smoking weed or cooperation with immigration authorities?
 
2020-08-03 10:40:25 AM  
U.S. History: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube hsxukOPEdgg
 
2020-08-03 10:40:32 AM  
Even if the civil war was over states rights... the south still lost which means the rights of states is limited.
 
2020-08-03 10:40:47 AM  
'states rights' isn't wrong as term, it's wrong as a concept and idea.   People have liberty, not farking geography.
 
2020-08-03 10:42:07 AM  
Yes, let's all pretend the 14th amendment doesn't exist.
 
2020-08-03 10:42:11 AM  
Lincoln sure as hell didn't think the war was about slavery at the beginning.  That's why the Emancipation Proclamation 1) wasn't passed until the tail end of the war and 2) didn't free slaves in non-rebelling states.
 
2020-08-03 10:42:36 AM  

The Perineum Falcon: States rights to own slaves?


Not just to own slaves but to overturn the Supreme Court ruling that said non-slave holding states had to recognize Fugitive Slave Laws.
 
2020-08-03 10:42:59 AM  
17 list "states' rights," and not slavery, as a cause of the Civil War.

And wasn't really coined until after Brown v Board of Education......almost as if its a euphemism for something else. A whistle, if you will.
 
2020-08-03 10:44:16 AM  

SoupGuru: Are we talking about a real state's right like the right to own people? Or fake ones like gay rights or smoking weed or cooperation with immigration authorities?


it was actually because the North wanted to make everyone in the South wear a mask
 
2020-08-03 10:45:01 AM  

loworbit: [iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/hsxukOPE​dgg?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


Damnit I cannot see something this recent from him, but I do not really need it.  Your country is a joke, it ignores science, it ignores suffering, it only seems to give a shiat about people that own people, sure they are not called slaves anymore but workers are just slaves that you do not have to house and feed.
 
2020-08-03 10:45:12 AM  
The Daughters of the Confederacy wanted librarians to label books they didn't like "Unjust to the South."

Perhaps the bible should be labeled "Unjust to Satan" but the list would be so long you'd need a centerfold just to get every ancient middle eastern deity in, or at least the major ones.
 
2020-08-03 10:46:19 AM  
The south thinks they have the "right" to drag the entire country down. So there's that.
 
2020-08-03 10:47:22 AM  

RussianPotato: Lincoln sure as hell didn't think the war was about slavery at the beginning.  That's why the Emancipation Proclamation 1) wasn't passed until the tail end of the war and 2) didn't free slaves in non-rebelling states.


January 1863 is not the "tail end of the war" that ended in April 1865. And while Lincoln would've allowed slavery if it saved the Union, he certainly understood it was ABOUT slavery at the beginning.

But I assume I'm just responding to a troll and wasting my breath.
 
2020-08-03 10:47:44 AM  

bainsguy: SoupGuru: Are we talking about a real state's right like the right to own people? Or fake ones like gay rights or smoking weed or cooperation with immigration authorities?

it was actually because the North wanted to make everyone in the South wear a mask


Otherwise known as the beautify the south campaign.
 
2020-08-03 10:48:01 AM  

Langdon_777: loworbit: [iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/hsxukOPE​dgg?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]

Damnit I cannot see something this recent from him, but I do not really need it.  Your country is a joke, it ignores science, it ignores suffering, it only seems to give a shiat about people that own people, sure they are not called slaves anymore but workers are just slaves that you do not have to house and feed.


We call them borrowers now, and the funny thing is they sell themselves for money they use to drive up the price of everything.
 
2020-08-03 10:48:58 AM  
I bet i could guess the states pretty accurately.
 
2020-08-03 10:50:10 AM  
It was about state's rights.  Specifically, the right to hold slaves, as is prominently mentioned in every declaration of secession.

More specifically, the slave state's rights to demand the northern states support the fugitive slave act, thus imposing their demands on the rights of those northern states to be free states.  Note the primary reason for SC's leaving the union in their DoS was "increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery"
 
2020-08-03 10:50:38 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 10:52:06 AM  
I went to public school in north metro Atlanta in the 1970's and early 80's. Graduated in 1984. We were absolutely taught that the cause of the Civil War was the southern cause fighting for state's rights. Good lord we were backwards farks.
 
2020-08-03 10:52:08 AM  

kabar: RussianPotato: Lincoln sure as hell didn't think the war was about slavery at the beginning.  That's why the Emancipation Proclamation 1) wasn't passed until the tail end of the war and 2) didn't free slaves in non-rebelling states.

January 1863 is not the "tail end of the war" that ended in April 1865. And while Lincoln would've allowed slavery if it saved the Union, he certainly understood it was ABOUT slavery at the beginning.

But I assume I'm just responding to a troll and wasting my breath.


The south seceding was about slaves.  Full stop.  They said it themselves in multiple documents and speeches.  Claiming anything else is willful ignorance.

And yes, you ate bait.
 
2020-08-03 10:53:19 AM  
"History is written by the victors."  attributed to Winston Churchill
"Hold mah mint julep...." 17 states.
 
2020-08-03 10:53:53 AM  

RussianPotato: Lincoln sure as hell didn't think the war was about slavery at the beginning.


The states that started the war sure did. Mississippi's is probably the most direct:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

Fark the revisionist bullshiat.
 
2020-08-03 10:53:56 AM  
It was about states' rights.  To keep slaves.
It was about national politics.  To keep slaves.
It was about economics.  Of keeping slaves.
It was about States' rights to manage their own economy.  By using slaves.
It was about westward expansion.  Of slavery.
 
2020-08-03 10:54:40 AM  

Glockenspiel Hero: It was about state's rights.  Specifically, the right to hold slaves, as is prominently mentioned in every declaration of secession.

More specifically, the slave state's rights to demand the northern states support the fugitive slave act, thus imposing their demands on the rights of those northern states to be free states.  Note the primary reason for SC's leaving the union in their DoS was "increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery"


Also where you got your police forces from.

Your country needs a reboot, a nice new Constitution, written by not just the white male property (incl. people) owners.
 
2020-08-03 10:54:55 AM  
Apu Explains the Civil War's Cause
Youtube SFwHQYDqf6c
 
2020-08-03 10:56:13 AM  
It was over states' rights.

Anyone remember the "right" they were trying to defend?
 
2020-08-03 10:57:32 AM  

JK8Fan: I went to public school in north metro Atlanta in the 1970's and early 80's. Graduated in 1984. We were absolutely taught that the cause of the Civil War was the southern cause fighting for state's rights. Good lord we were backwards farks.


I attended public school in Virginia, similar time period. This is the textbook we used in elementary school:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outloo​k​/slavery-history-virginia-textbook/202​0/07/31/d8571eda-d1f0-11ea-8c55-61e7fa​5e82ab_story.html

I still remember my High School history teacher unironically referring to the Civil War as the War of Northern Aggression.
 
2020-08-03 10:58:36 AM  
For conservatives, history is supposed to be a list of the achievements of other people that you get to take credit for because you share some arbitrary quality with those people like race, gender, nationality, or religion, and because you already "accomplished" all that, it's wrong to ask anything further of you.

For liberals, history is supposed to be a list of things that still need to be fixed and an explanation of what we've already tried and what worked and didn't work.  That life is a work in progress and that there are always things that can be improved, and it's everyone's responsibility to do so.
 
2020-08-03 10:59:00 AM  

JK8Fan: I went to public school in north metro Atlanta in the 1970's and early 80's. Graduated in 1984. We were absolutely taught that the cause of the Civil War was the southern cause fighting for state's rights. Good lord we were backwards farks.


I stayed at Amicalola lodge in 2010, and they had like a Georgia Public Television station on the channel list, and it straight up said Black people were better under slavery, and mostly beloved as family members by their owners.
 
2020-08-03 11:00:09 AM  

BitwiseShift: The Daughters of the Confederacy wanted librarians to label books they didn't like "Unjust to the South."

Perhaps the bible should be labeled "Unjust to Satan" but the list would be so long you'd need a centerfold just to get every ancient middle eastern deity in, or at least the major ones.


I don't know if it's unjust to Satan. He just wanted to give me free will whereas God drowns almost every living thing because he screwed up then just murders a dudes family to win a bet.
 
2020-08-03 11:00:11 AM  

DarnoKonrad: 'states rights' isn't wrong as term, it's wrong as a concept and idea.   People have liberty, not farking geography.


That is the philosophy that has things farked up here now... the concept of states being unrelated to the nation as opposed to being PART of a whole. This idea is what kicked off the Civil War, that "I can do what I want within my own country named (insert southern state here)".

50+ separate little countries (fewer back in the days of the Civil War), each doing their own thing with no regard for any of the others is also what has promoted the spread of COVID-19 so rapidly and what will make it nearly impossible to deal with effectively.

The United States in theory consists of one people who have decided to associate on one piece of dirt. The dirt means nothing, only the people do. Unfortunately there are still those who want their own little country where they can do anything they want.
 
2020-08-03 11:01:07 AM  
media.npr.orgView Full Size


"Workers."
 
2020-08-03 11:01:26 AM  

DarnoKonrad: JK8Fan: I went to public school in north metro Atlanta in the 1970's and early 80's. Graduated in 1984. We were absolutely taught that the cause of the Civil War was the southern cause fighting for state's rights. Good lord we were backwards farks.

I stayed at Amicalola lodge in 2010, and they had like a Georgia Public Television station on the channel list, and it straight up said Black people were better under slavery, and mostly beloved as family members by their owners.


Slavery was barely mentioned and was never a cause of the war. I do remember seeing that pretty horrible illustration of the way a slave ship was packed and thinking how horrible that was, but really nothing past that.
 
2020-08-03 11:02:21 AM  

Ginnungagap42: I still remember my High School history teacher unironically referring to the Civil War as the War of Northern Aggression.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 11:03:49 AM  

The Perineum Falcon: States rights to own slaves?


But no state's rights for free states to refuse to hunt fugitive slaves for those asshole slave states.
 
2020-08-03 11:04:24 AM  

gameshowhost: Yet again, dual sovereignty resulting in a race to the bottom.


I have a counter-theory:

State-sized socialism creates a race to the bottom.  If Kansas wasn't being saved by federal spending they would have been bankrupted by their stupid and forced to change their attitudes.
 
2020-08-03 11:09:54 AM  
In Jr. High our Social Studies teacher mentioned, once, that George Washington owned slaves, but it was okay because "he was nice to them."
 
2020-08-03 11:09:56 AM  
The revisionists have been so successful that "States Rights" is officially an acceptable answer for this question on the US Citizenship Test even.
 
2020-08-03 11:14:53 AM  

RussianPotato: Lincoln sure as hell didn't think the war was about slavery at the beginning.  That's why the Emancipation Proclamation 1) wasn't passed until the tail end of the war and 2) didn't free slaves in non-rebelling states.


Fark user imageView Full Size

Citation needed.
 
2020-08-03 11:15:06 AM  

JK8Fan: I went to public school in north metro Atlanta in the 1970's and early 80's. Graduated in 1984. We were absolutely taught that the cause of the Civil War was the southern cause fighting for state's rights. Good lord we were backwards farks.


Texas taught that in the 90s.
 
2020-08-03 11:15:07 AM  
I blame Greendale Community College
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 11:15:47 AM  
It's weird how it wasn't at all about slavery, but they still managed to put it in their Constitution.
 
2020-08-03 11:18:00 AM  

JK8Fan: DarnoKonrad: JK8Fan: I went to public school in north metro Atlanta in the 1970's and early 80's. Graduated in 1984. We were absolutely taught that the cause of the Civil War was the southern cause fighting for state's rights. Good lord we were backwards farks.

I stayed at Amicalola lodge in 2010, and they had like a Georgia Public Television station on the channel list, and it straight up said Black people were better under slavery, and mostly beloved as family members by their owners.

Slavery was barely mentioned and was never a cause of the war. I do remember seeing that pretty horrible illustration of the way a slave ship was packed and thinking how horrible that was, but really nothing past that.


I went to school in Massachusetts, and while we were taught the civil war was fought over slavery, we learned almost nothing about slavery in Massachusetts. There was legal slavery in MA for over a century and none of it was mentioned in school beyond Tituba's story.
 
2020-08-03 11:18:34 AM  
"States' rights" to do what?
 
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