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(The New York Times)   Scientists, and everyone else, worried about White House interference in covid vaccine development   ( divider line
    More: Murica  
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975 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Aug 2020 at 9:06 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook

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2020-08-03 9:21:25 AM  
9 votes:
FTA:  "In April, with hospitals overwhelmed...."

And where was this at?  All the extra hospital beds in New York went unused, surely they don't mean somewhere else.

If the first sentence in your story is bogus, it really makes me doubt the rest of the story
2020-08-03 5:24:03 AM  
9 votes:
They'll announce a "perfect, beautiful vaccine" in October, but you can only get it by sending your signed, but otherwise blank mail-in ballot to Jared Kushner, and, whoops, sorry, the vaccine was actually a syringe full of hydroxychloriquine, liquefied unsold copies of Don Jr's book, and the ground-up bones of IvankaKorps employees who couldn't meet the hourly shoe quota.

I can work from home until the Oxford vaccine is ready, thanks. Maybe by that point we'll even get to swarm U.N. relief trucks delivering it to us.
2020-08-03 9:32:15 AM  
5 votes:
I'm sure that the White House Coronavirus Task Force is on top of it all.  Run by the best people.  It's not rocket science.

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2020-08-03 9:15:28 AM  
3 votes:
"Big beautiful vaccine just developed and more quickly than anyone thought possible! If you pledge to vote for your Favorite President (me) you will be first in line to receive! You're welcome!"

Just leaving this here for Trump to copypasta later.

/I doubt he would tweet exactly this
//He will float something like this just like his move the election tweet
/// Trump leaves a lot of floaters
2020-08-03 9:33:21 AM  
2 votes:
These scientists came up to me.  Big, huge scientists.  They tell me that they were the biggest scientists anyone had ever seen!  And they had tears in their eyes!  They said "Sir, thank you for inventing this vaccine.   This is the most luxurious vaccine we have ever seen."
2020-08-03 10:29:21 AM  
1 vote:

GrizzlyPouch: FTA:  "In April, with hospitals overwhelmed...."

And where was this at?  All the extra hospital beds in New York went unused, surely they don't mean somewhere else.

If the first sentence in your story is bogus, it really makes me doubt the rest of the story

Let me help you out on this, sport. Just because a hospital is a hospital doesn't mean every single room is negative pressure. Most of the older hospitals have a few TB rooms with negative pressure. What we're having to do is take entire floors and convert them into negative pressure units. Not everybody's willing to work on a Covid unit. The vast majority of our covid-19 patients require ICU care.  I know of no hospitals in our area that are set up to have more than 15 patients at a time in their ICU. An ICU nurse is specially trained. We don't just pull nurses from other floors and say come on down we've got 35 patients today because we had to convert the second floor into an ICU. We do not have enough people to staff this. So when they say hospitals are overwhelmed, we really are overwhelmed. We need people, we need equipment, we need PPE, we need n95 masks, we need gloves, we need sanitizing equipment and supplies. Every single time a covid-19 patient requires a CT scan, or an x-ray, or surgery, or an ivr procedure, or a respiratory procedure, etc, all of that equipment has to be cleaned. And I don't mean wiped down with a cavi wipe, I mean cleaned. We don't have enough cleaning people for this. The food that they're served it comes on paper trays because they don't want to take the risk of spreading infection through utensils. Hospitals, especially small ones, are incurring costs that they simply cannot absorb. Again, hospitals are overwhelmed. Thanks for your input, though. When I get to work tonight, I'll let everybody know how easy we have it according to you.
2020-08-03 9:15:07 AM  
1 vote:
The people working on a vaccine are trying to hurt Trump and by extension God by circumventing the miracle disappearance of Covid as he has prophesied.

Wait for the miracle, after all, vaccines contain alien DNA.
2020-08-03 4:30:41 AM  
1 vote:
It doesn't matter if the FDA wants to do the right thing. The idiots in the white house will simply remove the person in charge and replace them with another Trump Stooge. They have shown they are more than willing to throw the whole country under the bus so there should be no expectation they won't continue to do that in the future.
2020-08-02 11:30:48 PM  
1 vote:
I have some familiarity with regulatory agencies and the regulatory process. I'm not really worried.

If you want a true example of an incarnation of "The Deep State", it exists at the FDA.

The overwhelming number of people at the FDA know all about Thalidomide and how the FDA, and in particular, Frances Kelsey, stood firm against its approval pending quality safety information. It's mythical in it's nature (and often misconstrued, misinterpreted, and the story abused). But the significant point is, scientists "grow up" with an ideal of being guardians of public safety. They may not wear capes, or their underwear on the outside, but their lab coats are metaphorical substitutes, despite the facts that few wear lab coats but instead do statistical analysis of data.

Meanwhile, people who have worked hard to earn PhDs in pharmacology, toxicology, bio-statistics and related disciplines (including combinations of the above, and combinations in allied fields) do deserve some default respect. Their first commitment is to science. They deserve a default presumption of integrity. Really, people don't study this stuff just to get laid.

So when the vaccine trials data comes in, it will be evaluated by qualified and thoughtful scientists. They will fairly evaluate the data. Further, they will evaluate it in the context of a pandemic ---- which whether you like it or not, changes some of the risk/reward calculations. In truth, there are some compromises that make sense to make in the wake of a global pandemic. But people qualified to evaluate those trade-offs work at the FDA and CDC and will make their recommendations.

There exists some concern that political appointees, and politically appointed managers at senior levels will attempt to influence the evaluations published by rand and file scientists. Well I've known a fair number of these rank and file scientists, and their mid-level managers. They will not be silenced. There are simply too many good people out there.

That saying about the moral arc of the universe bending towards justice: I think it's founded upon the essence of The Enlightenment and a respect for Objective Rationality. Science is intoxicating. And scientists get intoxicated by it. It will bring us home.
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