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(The New York Times)   Scientists, and everyone else, worried about White House interference in covid vaccine development   (nytimes.com) divider line
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966 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Aug 2020 at 9:06 AM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-02 11:30:48 PM  
I have some familiarity with regulatory agencies and the regulatory process. I'm not really worried.

If you want a true example of an incarnation of "The Deep State", it exists at the FDA.

The overwhelming number of people at the FDA know all about Thalidomide and how the FDA, and in particular, Frances Kelsey, stood firm against its approval pending quality safety information. It's mythical in it's nature (and often misconstrued, misinterpreted, and the story abused). But the significant point is, scientists "grow up" with an ideal of being guardians of public safety. They may not wear capes, or their underwear on the outside, but their lab coats are metaphorical substitutes, despite the facts that few wear lab coats but instead do statistical analysis of data.

Meanwhile, people who have worked hard to earn PhDs in pharmacology, toxicology, bio-statistics and related disciplines (including combinations of the above, and combinations in allied fields) do deserve some default respect. Their first commitment is to science. They deserve a default presumption of integrity. Really, people don't study this stuff just to get laid.

So when the vaccine trials data comes in, it will be evaluated by qualified and thoughtful scientists. They will fairly evaluate the data. Further, they will evaluate it in the context of a pandemic ---- which whether you like it or not, changes some of the risk/reward calculations. In truth, there are some compromises that make sense to make in the wake of a global pandemic. But people qualified to evaluate those trade-offs work at the FDA and CDC and will make their recommendations.

There exists some concern that political appointees, and politically appointed managers at senior levels will attempt to influence the evaluations published by rand and file scientists. Well I've known a fair number of these rank and file scientists, and their mid-level managers. They will not be silenced. There are simply too many good people out there.

That saying about the moral arc of the universe bending towards justice: I think it's founded upon the essence of The Enlightenment and a respect for Objective Rationality. Science is intoxicating. And scientists get intoxicated by it. It will bring us home.
 
2020-08-03 12:08:03 AM  

wademh: I have some familiarity with regulatory agencies and the regulatory process. I'm not really worried.

If you want a true example of an incarnation of "The Deep State", it exists at the FDA.

The overwhelming number of people at the FDA know all about Thalidomide and how the FDA, and in particular, Frances Kelsey, stood firm against its approval pending quality safety information. It's mythical in it's nature (and often misconstrued, misinterpreted, and the story abused). But the significant point is, scientists "grow up" with an ideal of being guardians of public safety. They may not wear capes, or their underwear on the outside, but their lab coats are metaphorical substitutes, despite the facts that few wear lab coats but instead do statistical analysis of data.

Meanwhile, people who have worked hard to earn PhDs in pharmacology, toxicology, bio-statistics and related disciplines (including combinations of the above, and combinations in allied fields) do deserve some default respect. Their first commitment is to science. They deserve a default presumption of integrity. Really, people don't study this stuff just to get laid.

So when the vaccine trials data comes in, it will be evaluated by qualified and thoughtful scientists. They will fairly evaluate the data. Further, they will evaluate it in the context of a pandemic ---- which whether you like it or not, changes some of the risk/reward calculations. In truth, there are some compromises that make sense to make in the wake of a global pandemic. But people qualified to evaluate those trade-offs work at the FDA and CDC and will make their recommendations.

There exists some concern that political appointees, and politically appointed managers at senior levels will attempt to influence the evaluations published by rand and file scientists. Well I've known a fair number of these rank and file scientists, and their mid-level managers. They will not be silenced. There are simply too many good people out there.

That ...


The "Deep State" is a stupid moniker applied by stupid people (not you of course) who have a grudge against any and all government bureaucracy - as if it's some deep dark secret (hence, "deep state")  But, this is the age of ridiculous conspiracy theories that aren't even conspiracies.

Do lots of government bureaucrats think Trump is an unfit stupid moron who couldn't make money in the casino business?  Sure.  If they have half a brain.  But, so what.  They do their job.

All of this is projection.  Trump fans think all this stuff is happening because that's what they would do, so they think everybody is an unethical scumbag just like they are.  Shockingly, this is not true.

Were some bureaucrats not thrilled in 2008 when Obama became President?  Sure, some were. Bureaucrats are human beings who occupy the whole political spectrum.   Nothing mysterious about it if you have half a brain.  Did Obama fans run around talking about the "Deep State"?  No, and considering he was our first black president, he had way more concerns in this area than a white rich guy like Donald Farkin' Trump.

I blame the internet and Fox news for all this nonsense.
 
2020-08-03 4:30:41 AM  
It doesn't matter if the FDA wants to do the right thing. The idiots in the white house will simply remove the person in charge and replace them with another Trump Stooge. They have shown they are more than willing to throw the whole country under the bus so there should be no expectation they won't continue to do that in the future.
 
2020-08-03 5:24:03 AM  
They'll announce a "perfect, beautiful vaccine" in October, but you can only get it by sending your signed, but otherwise blank mail-in ballot to Jared Kushner, and, whoops, sorry, the vaccine was actually a syringe full of hydroxychloriquine, liquefied unsold copies of Don Jr's book, and the ground-up bones of IvankaKorps employees who couldn't meet the hourly shoe quota.

I can work from home until the Oxford vaccine is ready, thanks. Maybe by that point we'll even get to swarm U.N. relief trucks delivering it to us.
 
2020-08-03 6:47:10 AM  
PaulRB:The "Deep State" is a stupid moniker applied by stupid people (not you of course) who have a grudge against any and all government bureaucracy - as if it's some deep dark secret (hence, "deep state")  But, this is the age of ridiculous conspiracy theories that aren't even conspiracies.

"The Deep State" is just "a normal functioning government" and it's essentially branding to try to paint a functional government as the enemy of "the people." Which is to say, "we hate the idea that there are checks and balances, and why can't we just write ourselves checks from the department we head?" Much like the push to rebrand "White Power Motherf*ckers" as "The Alt-Right" and "Anyone who protests against us" as "Antifa." Give them credit, they studied Goebbels, and controlling the language helps control the debate. Which is why we have "Gun Control" as opposed to "violence reforms" because talking about reducing violent crime as ONLY a matter of guns makes things a lot easier to come up with talking points, and reduces those pesky folks looking at education, financial equality, and health care as part of "another debate" and thus helps reduce the threat of actually doing anything useful which might impede the sale of guns and reduce the prison industry. 

Back to thread topic though, I will NOT be surprised if there is pushback from this Administration on even if we NEED a vaccine, because we have hydroxychloroquine and bleach...
 
2020-08-03 9:15:07 AM  
The people working on a vaccine are trying to hurt Trump and by extension God by circumventing the miracle disappearance of Covid as he has prophesied.

Wait for the miracle, after all, vaccines contain alien DNA.
 
2020-08-03 9:15:28 AM  
"Big beautiful vaccine just developed and more quickly than anyone thought possible! If you pledge to vote for your Favorite President (me) you will be first in line to receive! You're welcome!"

Just leaving this here for Trump to copypasta later.

/I doubt he would tweet exactly this
//He will float something like this just like his move the election tweet
/// Trump leaves a lot of floaters
 
2020-08-03 9:16:02 AM  
Why would anyone worry about that? I mean, sure, the current administration has managed to get just about everything wrong, from testing to treatment to masks/social distancing to hydroxychloroquine to lung disinfectant and internal UV light application to the virus will just magically go away.... I'd say they're past due for being right about something, and this time it seems legit, not like some Democrat political hoax.

Right?
 
2020-08-03 9:16:09 AM  

PaulRB: All of this is projection.  Trump fans think all this stuff is happening because that's what they would do, so they think everybody is an unethical scumbag just like they are


Embiggened and emboldened for truth. Not merely what they would do though. What they usually in fact are doing. With the right, every accusation is a confession.
 
2020-08-03 9:21:25 AM  
FTA:  "In April, with hospitals overwhelmed...."

And where was this at?  All the extra hospital beds in New York went unused, surely they don't mean somewhere else.

If the first sentence in your story is bogus, it really makes me doubt the rest of the story
 
2020-08-03 9:22:34 AM  

GrizzlyPouch: FTA:  "In April, with hospitals overwhelmed...."

And where was this at?  All the extra hospital beds in New York went unused, surely they don't mean somewhere else.

If the first sentence in your story is bogus, it really makes me doubt the rest of the story


LowQualityBait.png

Sorry, on my phone atm.
 
2020-08-03 9:26:44 AM  
Every immunization with a dash of sunlight, a sprinkle of hydroxy chloroquine, a pinch of chlorox, and a pile of "thoughts and prayers".
 
2020-08-03 9:28:19 AM  

Magnus_Jager: Every immunization with a dash of sunlight, a sprinkle of hydroxy chloroquine, a pinch of chlorox, and a pile of "thoughts and prayers".


plus some Trump DNA via a stool sample he donated for "good" measure
 
2020-08-03 9:29:28 AM  
And this is why if a vaccine suddenly appeared any time before this orange floater leaves office I would keep as far away from it as possible. Vaccines and other medicines are supposed to be handled by doctors, researchers, and scientists, not politics and not politicians... especially the ones in the white house right now.

F'k that shat. I'll wait.
 
2020-08-03 9:32:15 AM  
I'm sure that the White House Coronavirus Task Force is on top of it all.  Run by the best people.  It's not rocket science.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 9:33:21 AM  
These scientists came up to me.  Big, huge scientists.  They tell me that they were the biggest scientists anyone had ever seen!  And they had tears in their eyes!  They said "Sir, thank you for inventing this vaccine.   This is the most luxurious vaccine we have ever seen."
 
2020-08-03 9:33:30 AM  
They already are trying to push fake cures. So yeah, there's no reason to believe this administration if they say they have a vaccine. I would need external verification before I believed it.
 
2020-08-03 9:34:03 AM  
There's scuttlebut (WaPo) that the reason the hydroxy is so much still in the news, is that Navarro, deSantis, and quite a few others are trying to unload the billions paid for stockpile the stuff by the GOP Geniuses.

Never miss become very rich in a crisis, and using the government to bankroll the game.
 
2020-08-03 9:35:46 AM  

GrizzlyPouch: FTA:  "In April, with hospitals overwhelmed...."

And where was this at?  All the extra hospital beds in New York went unused, surely they don't mean somewhere else.

If the first sentence in your story is bogus, it really makes me doubt the rest of the story


You need to find new hunting grounds. Everyone here knows your tired shtick and it just isn't working any longer.
 
2020-08-03 9:35:51 AM  
I'm baffled that after we've watched the DoJ, EPA, NWS, and CDC kiss the ring some people still think the FDA is incorruptible.
 
2020-08-03 9:37:01 AM  

GrizzlyPouch: And where was this at?  All the extra hospital beds in New York went unused, surely they don't mean somewhere else.


PG County for one. https://www.washingtonpost.com/l​ocal/p​rince-georges-hospitals-coronavirus-cr​isis/2020/04/14/2ac05724-7e7f-11ea-904​0-68981f488eed_story.html

But I guess those people don't count? Would you like more examples, or do you just want to google them for yourself?
 
2020-08-03 9:39:04 AM  

eKonk: Why would anyone worry about that? I mean, sure, the current administration has managed to get just about everything wrong, from testing to treatment to masks/social distancing to hydroxychloroquine to lung disinfectant and internal UV light application to the virus will just magically go away.... I'd say they're past due for being right about something, and this time it seems legit, not like some Democrat political hoax.


I don't think there's much cause for alarm with this, among all the other matters that are legitimate concerns. Sure, Trump will try to claim credit for anything promising that comes along and make wild claims, and he may even try to push premature deployment. But there's sound precedent in the roll out and subsequent administration of vaccines like those for measles and polio.

It will take an army of health care pros to deliver a remedy, and they aren't going to act in the absence of solid evidence that it's a relatively safe and sure thing.
 
2020-08-03 9:50:33 AM  
This line really has me worried "On Sunday, Russia announced that it planned to start a nationwide inoculation campaign in October with a vaccine that had yet to complete clinical trials, the latest evidence of the global potential for cutting corners."

Let's say the US doesn't get a vaccine ready by October. What's to stop the Orange Asshole from getting the "vaccine" from Russia so he can boast about it during the election. But instead of a preventative it contains toxins that make people sicker and excites the anti-vaxers. Then if we ever get a real vaccine it will be even harder to get people inoculated.

After all, the anti-vaxer crap was fueled by Russian propaganda as the test for the disinformation campaign.

On the other hand, since Russia's goal is just to sow unrest, it could just be something that flat out kills people. The post-modern equivalent of small pox blankets to blue states.

/Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to replace the Ramen noodles in my bug out bags.
 
2020-08-03 10:02:00 AM  

SoupJohnB: eKonk: Why would anyone worry about that? I mean, sure, the current administration has managed to get just about everything wrong, from testing to treatment to masks/social distancing to hydroxychloroquine to lung disinfectant and internal UV light application to the virus will just magically go away.... I'd say they're past due for being right about something, and this time it seems legit, not like some Democrat political hoax.

I don't think there's much cause for alarm with this, among all the other matters that are legitimate concerns. Sure, Trump will try to claim credit for anything promising that comes along and make wild claims, and he may even try to push premature deployment. But there's sound precedent in the roll out and subsequent administration of vaccines like those for measles and polio.

It will take an army of health care pros to deliver a remedy, and they aren't going to act in the absence of solid evidence that it's a relatively safe and sure thing.


And what if Fat Donny announces a "cure", that can only be allowed to people who sign a loyalty oath to him personally and only handed out through Churches?

Oh, it was fentanyl and/or cyanide? Our bad.

I'm convinced at this point that Fat Donny could do such a thing. I'm convinced that he could easily convince 60-100 million people to commit suicide at the drop of a hat.

Wouldn't that be interesting.
 
2020-08-03 10:02:57 AM  

hubiestubert: PaulRB:The "Deep State" is a stupid moniker applied by stupid people (not you of course) who have a grudge against any and all government bureaucracy - as if it's some deep dark secret (hence, "deep state")  But, this is the age of ridiculous conspiracy theories that aren't even conspiracies.

"The Deep State" is just "a normal functioning government" and it's essentially branding to try to paint a functional government as the enemy of "the people." Which is to say, "we hate the idea that there are checks and balances, and why can't we just write ourselves checks from the department we head?" Much like the push to rebrand "White Power Motherf*ckers" as "The Alt-Right" and "Anyone who protests against us" as "Antifa." Give them credit, they studied Goebbels, and controlling the language helps control the debate. Which is why we have "Gun Control" as opposed to "violence reforms" because talking about reducing violent crime as ONLY a matter of guns makes things a lot easier to come up with talking points, and reduces those pesky folks looking at education, financial equality, and health care as part of "another debate" and thus helps reduce the threat of actually doing anything useful which might impede the sale of guns and reduce the prison industry. 

Back to thread topic though, I will NOT be surprised if there is pushback from this Administration on even if we NEED a vaccine, because we have hydroxychloroquine and bleach...


...and u/v lights, don't forget them.
 
2020-08-03 10:09:33 AM  
Covid vaccine trials stage (Only ones in stage 2/3 captured here

Fark user imageView Full Size


Database is here
 
2020-08-03 10:15:06 AM  
"Careless talk about career F.D.A. regulators somehow approving an unsafe and ineffective vaccine just for politics only undermines confidence in the public health system," [spokesman for HHS] added.

Ooohhh... NOW it is careless to wonder about the professionalism of career federal employees and not to politicize their jobs. Ok, that's good. I guess we're done with all the Deep State bullshiat now, right?
 
2020-08-03 10:20:39 AM  

PaulRB: wademh: I have some familiarity with regulatory agencies and the regulatory process. I'm not really worried.

If you want a true example of an incarnation of "The Deep State", it exists at the FDA.

The overwhelming number of people at the FDA know all about Thalidomide and how the FDA, and in particular, Frances Kelsey, stood firm against its approval pending quality safety information. It's mythical in it's nature (and often misconstrued, misinterpreted, and the story abused). But the significant point is, scientists "grow up" with an ideal of being guardians of public safety. They may not wear capes, or their underwear on the outside, but their lab coats are metaphorical substitutes, despite the facts that few wear lab coats but instead do statistical analysis of data.

Meanwhile, people who have worked hard to earn PhDs in pharmacology, toxicology, bio-statistics and related disciplines (including combinations of the above, and combinations in allied fields) do deserve some default respect. Their first commitment is to science. They deserve a default presumption of integrity. Really, people don't study this stuff just to get laid.

So when the vaccine trials data comes in, it will be evaluated by qualified and thoughtful scientists. They will fairly evaluate the data. Further, they will evaluate it in the context of a pandemic ---- which whether you like it or not, changes some of the risk/reward calculations. In truth, there are some compromises that make sense to make in the wake of a global pandemic. But people qualified to evaluate those trade-offs work at the FDA and CDC and will make their recommendations.

There exists some concern that political appointees, and politically appointed managers at senior levels will attempt to influence the evaluations published by rand and file scientists. Well I've known a fair number of these rank and file scientists, and their mid-level managers. They will not be silenced. There are simply too many good people out there.

That ...

The "Deep State" is a stupid moniker applied by stupid people (not you of course) who have a grudge against any and all government bureaucracy - as if it's some deep dark secret (hence, "deep state")  But, this is the age of ridiculous conspiracy theories that aren't even conspiracies.

Do lots of government bureaucrats think Trump is an unfit stupid moron who couldn't make money in the casino business?  Sure.  If they have half a brain.  But, so what.  They do their job.

All of this is projection.  Trump fans think all this stuff is happening because that's what they would do, so they think everybody is an unethical scumbag just like they are.  Shockingly, this is not true.

Were some bureaucrats not thrilled in 2008 when Obama became President?  Sure, some were. Bureaucrats are human beings who occupy the whole political spectrum.   Nothing mysterious about it if you have half a brain.  Did Obama fans run around talking about the "Deep State"?  No, and considering he was our first black president, he had way more concerns in this area than a white rich guy like Donald Farkin' Trump.

I blame the internet and Fox news for all this nonsense.


Part of the belief in the Deep State and its connection with science has to do with this bizarre conservative belief (unofficially endorsed and supported by Trump) that scientists are involved in some elaborate conspiracy to increase government control and revoke everyone's freedom.  Look at Trump's compulsive deregulation of the EPA for the sake of industrialists making more money (money = freedom, according to the GOP) in the hopes that it will help him remain popular and get re-elected.

It's just really weird that the GOP abstract of freedom is an uninhibited social ability to do whatever one wants without consequences because people will do the most good for the group, extrapolated from the idea that what something being good for one person must be good for everyone.
 
2020-08-03 10:22:05 AM  
Trump and the Right Wing Echo Chamber have been conditioning people to believe that any vaccine is a product of evil from Bill Gates and George Soros to microchip everyone for tracking and brainwashing and sterilization purposes, and besides that the whole china flu thing is a huge lamestream media hoax anyway, and some may even know a shady doctor who can hook them up with some hydroxychloroquine, so why in the world would they go out and get vaccinated?

When Trump changed from Anti-Mask to Pro-Mask, his base did not follow him. What will make a vaccine any different?
 
2020-08-03 10:24:12 AM  
The New York Times:  Scientists Worry . . .

So, . . . nobody.
 
2020-08-03 10:29:21 AM  

GrizzlyPouch: FTA:  "In April, with hospitals overwhelmed...."

And where was this at?  All the extra hospital beds in New York went unused, surely they don't mean somewhere else.

If the first sentence in your story is bogus, it really makes me doubt the rest of the story


Let me help you out on this, sport. Just because a hospital is a hospital doesn't mean every single room is negative pressure. Most of the older hospitals have a few TB rooms with negative pressure. What we're having to do is take entire floors and convert them into negative pressure units. Not everybody's willing to work on a Covid unit. The vast majority of our covid-19 patients require ICU care.  I know of no hospitals in our area that are set up to have more than 15 patients at a time in their ICU. An ICU nurse is specially trained. We don't just pull nurses from other floors and say come on down we've got 35 patients today because we had to convert the second floor into an ICU. We do not have enough people to staff this. So when they say hospitals are overwhelmed, we really are overwhelmed. We need people, we need equipment, we need PPE, we need n95 masks, we need gloves, we need sanitizing equipment and supplies. Every single time a covid-19 patient requires a CT scan, or an x-ray, or surgery, or an ivr procedure, or a respiratory procedure, etc, all of that equipment has to be cleaned. And I don't mean wiped down with a cavi wipe, I mean cleaned. We don't have enough cleaning people for this. The food that they're served it comes on paper trays because they don't want to take the risk of spreading infection through utensils. Hospitals, especially small ones, are incurring costs that they simply cannot absorb. Again, hospitals are overwhelmed. Thanks for your input, though. When I get to work tonight, I'll let everybody know how easy we have it according to you.
 
2020-08-03 10:29:55 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: The New York Times:  Scientists Worry . . .

So, . . . nobody.


Actually, everyone with the qualifications to do so are in fact, worried.
 
2020-08-03 10:35:23 AM  

wademh: The overwhelming number of people at the FDA know all about Thalidomide and how the FDA, and in particular, Frances Kelsey, stood firm against its approval pending quality safety information.


I'm getting a laugh because.... actually, I've been on Thalidomide pre Stem Cell Transplant for Mutliple Myeloma / Amyloidosis. $16,000 was the cost. Available in India for about 50 cents.
 
2020-08-03 10:35:51 AM  
Trump will want his signature on every vaccine vial and to get it you first have to say "Thank you President Trump". He will definitely put out a tweet when a vaccine is announced saying something along the lines  of "A vaccine has been developed due to the warp speed program I put in place. Thank you President Trump!"
 
2020-08-03 10:39:20 AM  
Anti vaxxers voted for Trump.

Now Trump's reelection chances depend on convincing everyone to try a vaccine that can't possibly be adequately tested for safety in the time available.

I'm starting to think that 2020 was written by M. Night Shyamalan.
 
2020-08-03 10:42:25 AM  

wademh: I have some familiarity with regulatory agencies and the regulatory process. I'm not really worried.

If you want a true example of an incarnation of "The Deep State", it exists at the FDA.

The overwhelming number of people at the FDA know all about Thalidomide and how the FDA, and in particular, Frances Kelsey, stood firm against its approval pending quality safety information. It's mythical in it's nature (and often misconstrued, misinterpreted, and the story abused). But the significant point is, scientists "grow up" with an ideal of being guardians of public safety. They may not wear capes, or their underwear on the outside, but their lab coats are metaphorical substitutes, despite the facts that few wear lab coats but instead do statistical analysis of data.

Meanwhile, people who have worked hard to earn PhDs in pharmacology, toxicology, bio-statistics and related disciplines (including combinations of the above, and combinations in allied fields) do deserve some default respect. Their first commitment is to science. They deserve a default presumption of integrity. Really, people don't study this stuff just to get laid.

So when the vaccine trials data comes in, it will be evaluated by qualified and thoughtful scientists. They will fairly evaluate the data. Further, they will evaluate it in the context of a pandemic ---- which whether you like it or not, changes some of the risk/reward calculations. In truth, there are some compromises that make sense to make in the wake of a global pandemic. But people qualified to evaluate those trade-offs work at the FDA and CDC and will make their recommendations.

There exists some concern that political appointees, and politically appointed managers at senior levels will attempt to influence the evaluations published by rand and file scientists. Well I've known a fair number of these rank and file scientists, and their mid-level managers. They will not be silenced. There are simply too many good people out there.

That saying about the moral arc of the universe bending towards justice: I think it's founded upon the essence of The Enlightenment and a respect for Objective Rationality. Science is intoxicating. And scientists get intoxicated by it. It will bring us home.


When pregnant women were getting Thalidomide for morning sickness in droves, my mom was a military wife who was too poor to get a prescription filled. That was a blessing in disguise.
 
d23 [OhFark]
2020-08-03 10:45:37 AM  
A co-threat here is I.P. interference.  What if only on vaccine makes it through and a company (possibly with Trump ties or a Trump buddy) locks that vaccine up with a patent and it's $500 a dose?
 
2020-08-03 10:48:06 AM  

BooksontheBrain: This line really has me worried "On Sunday, Russia announced that it planned to start a nationwide inoculation campaign in October with a vaccine that had yet to complete clinical trials, the latest evidence of the global potential for cutting corners."

Let's say the US doesn't get a vaccine ready by October. What's to stop the Orange Asshole from getting the "vaccine" from Russia so he can boast about it during the election. But instead of a preventative it contains toxins that make people sicker and excites the anti-vaxers. Then if we ever get a real vaccine it will be even harder to get people inoculated.

After all, the anti-vaxer crap was fueled by Russian propaganda as the test for the disinformation campaign.

On the other hand, since Russia's goal is just to sow unrest, it could just be something that flat out kills people. The post-modern equivalent of small pox blankets to blue states.

/Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to replace the Ramen noodles in my bug out bags.


In the 1950s, when Russia was developing a polio vaccine, the top researchers (PhDs, doctors) volunteered and used their own children to be the first in the human trials.  It's tradition.
 
2020-08-03 11:03:17 AM  

hubiestubert: Back to thread topic though, I will NOT be surprised if there is pushback from this Administration on even if we NEED a vaccine, because we have hydroxychloroquine and bleach...


For awhile that might be the line, but if that shiat looks like it isn't sticking in the polling data late September to early October they'll need a new one. They might not even need to find a willing pharma partner to shunt out a partially-baked vaccine candidate- they'll just glom onto one stock-inflating press release these companies churn out regularly and declare that vaccine the cure. From there it'll they'll bully the company and the regulatory entities into compliance, with any naysayers marginalized or vilified.

The consequences of promoting a particular candidate of unknown efficacy that no one will be able to get their hands on anytime soon is a post-election problem. And they don't really care about those.
 
2020-08-03 11:16:09 AM  
Wait, I thought the October surprise was aliens. Are the aliens giving us the vaccine? I would trust that vaccine more than any vaccine from Trump and his corrupt gang of stupid. And I am in no way shape or form an anti-vaxxer.
 
2020-08-03 12:31:38 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 12:41:40 PM  

Hey Nurse!: GrizzlyPouch: FTA:  "In April, with hospitals overwhelmed...."

And where was this at?  All the extra hospital beds in New York went unused, surely they don't mean somewhere else.

If the first sentence in your story is bogus, it really makes me doubt the rest of the story

Let me help you out on this, sport. Just because a hospital is a hospital doesn't mean every single room is negative pressure. Most of the older hospitals have a few TB rooms with negative pressure. What we're having to do is take entire floors and convert them into negative pressure units. Not everybody's willing to work on a Covid unit. The vast majority of our covid-19 patients require ICU care.  I know of no hospitals in our area that are set up to have more than 15 patients at a time in their ICU. An ICU nurse is specially trained. We don't just pull nurses from other floors and say come on down we've got 35 patients today because we had to convert the second floor into an ICU. We do not have enough people to staff this. So when they say hospitals are overwhelmed, we really are overwhelmed. We need people, we need equipment, we need PPE, we need n95 masks, we need gloves, we need sanitizing equipment and supplies. Every single time a covid-19 patient requires a CT scan, or an x-ray, or surgery, or an ivr procedure, or a respiratory procedure, etc, all of that equipment has to be cleaned. And I don't mean wiped down with a cavi wipe, I mean cleaned. We don't have enough cleaning people for this. The food that they're served it comes on paper trays because they don't want to take the risk of spreading infection through utensils. Hospitals, especially small ones, are incurring costs that they simply cannot absorb. Again, hospitals are overwhelmed. Thanks for your input, though. When I get to work tonight, I'll let everybody know how easy we have it according to you.


I'd like to know if the poster this responded to read it and felt chastened and changed their mind or if they just blew it off as fluff.
 
2020-08-03 12:43:29 PM  

BitwiseShift: BooksontheBrain: This line really has me worried "On Sunday, Russia announced that it planned to start a nationwide inoculation campaign in October with a vaccine that had yet to complete clinical trials, the latest evidence of the global potential for cutting corners."

Let's say the US doesn't get a vaccine ready by October. What's to stop the Orange Asshole from getting the "vaccine" from Russia so he can boast about it during the election. But instead of a preventative it contains toxins that make people sicker and excites the anti-vaxers. Then if we ever get a real vaccine it will be even harder to get people inoculated.

After all, the anti-vaxer crap was fueled by Russian propaganda as the test for the disinformation campaign.

On the other hand, since Russia's goal is just to sow unrest, it could just be something that flat out kills people. The post-modern equivalent of small pox blankets to blue states.

/Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to replace the Ramen noodles in my bug out bags.

In the 1950s, when Russia was developing a polio vaccine, the top researchers (PhDs, doctors) volunteered and used their own children to be the first in the human trials.  It's tradition.


70 years ago, the US had integrity too. How's that going for us?
 
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