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(Inside EVs)   Windshield wipers on the touch screen might not be the best idea. Bet you wouldn't find that on a German car   (insideevs.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Automobile, Tesla Model, Wipers, Vehicle, Tesla vehicle, first lawsuit, motor vehicle driver, Vehicles  
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1161 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Aug 2020 at 6:15 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-08-03 6:28:37 AM  
I love repeats

I love repeats

I love repeats

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I love repeats

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I love repeats


They are my favourite greenlights
 
2020-08-03 6:43:54 AM  
How DARE you criticize Elon!
 
2020-08-03 6:46:56 AM  
"On Tesla's defense, that could probably be overcome if the Model 3 had the automatic mode for the wipers on or if the driver used the voice command to adjust the speed - you can even active farts sound with it."

He didn't activate the fart sounds, so of course it was deadly.
 
2020-08-03 6:53:27 AM  

Rapmaster2000: How DARE you criticize Elon!


His church members will be here soon.
 
2020-08-03 6:59:55 AM  
The logic of the verdict seems to not be the touch interface, but that the minimum time to navigate the menu structure to reach the command reasonably demands 5-10 seconds of looking away from the road and thus constitutes an unauthorized use of a device for purposes of determining liability.

Which... I mean, that's pretty fair.  I've seen (and been in) a number of collisions that fully resolved in less than five seconds.  Suing Tesla for the feature being that inaccessible in the first place would also be reasonable, that's a pretty nasty design oversight that should have been noted and fixed with basic QA.
 
2020-08-03 7:07:29 AM  
Touchscreens are terrible ideas on any car. I once test drove a Cadillac XTS, and it was all touchscreen. Not only did it look cheap and nasty, but it was also quite dangerous.
 
2020-08-03 7:25:30 AM  
Any control required in the course of driving really needs to be accessible by muscle memory without having to take eyes of the road. That requirement should probably be explicitly codified in the relevant FMVSS now that touchscreens are a thing.
 
2020-08-03 7:27:07 AM  

FlashHarry: Touchscreens are terrible ideas on any car. I once test drove a Cadillac XTS, and it was all touchscreen. Not only did it look cheap and nasty, but it was also quite dangerous.


Not only that, but I want to know how and why regulators allowed Tesla to get away with the bullshiat of routing every single function for a vehicle through a touchscreen.  A large majority of people cannot properly operate a motor vehicle as it is.  The touchscreen exacerbates the problem and is one of those, "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" moments.
 
2020-08-03 7:39:11 AM  
That's a terrible design flaw.
 
2020-08-03 7:44:05 AM  
Wipers and headlights need to be able to be turned on quickly w/o looking away

Putting some functions on touchscreens and/or voice is a classic "just cause you can..."
 
2020-08-03 7:46:51 AM  

Jim_Callahan: The logic of the verdict seems to not be the touch interface, but that the minimum time to navigate the menu structure to reach the command reasonably demands 5-10 seconds of looking away from the road and thus constitutes an unauthorized use of a device for purposes of determining liability.

Which... I mean, that's pretty fair.  I've seen (and been in) a number of collisions that fully resolved in less than five seconds.  Suing Tesla for the feature being that inaccessible in the first place would also be reasonable, that's a pretty nasty design oversight that should have been noted and fixed with basic QA.


I would tend to agree with you.  That being said, if this judge's logic holds up, I don't see how the German version of NTSA would allow Telsas to be sold until this is fixed.

Driver safety functions should ALL be 1 single operation to activate (headlights, windshield wipers, horn, turn signals, radio off, hazard lights, etc).  Other critical driver functions should be no more than 2 steps (cruise control, sideview mirror adjustment, sunroof operation, etc).
 
2020-08-03 7:51:40 AM  
The problem with Tesla is that Elon Musk is not a fundamentally serious person. This is fine when you're doing dotcom startups, but people die in cars. Cars need serious people involved.

Like I've worked in all sorts of places. I've never written life-or-death systems, but I've worked with people who looked after drug testing randomisation software. I had to get data out of them. And these were serious people to the point of frayed anxiety. They had insane levels of code review because people can die. The server running the randomisation ran nothing else at all.

The controls for vehicle functions SHOULD NOT contain a fart app. These two things should never be connected. You can have all that funky BMW IDrive full of audio, phone and GPS gizmos. Put Sinistar on there, if you like. Make it as stupid, buggy and complex as you like. But keep it on a whole load of separate stuff. Because when a process crashes the OS, no-one is going to die. Preferably, the critical functions are as manual and as simple as possible.
 
2020-08-03 8:06:09 AM  
Left foot controls high beams in my summer car
 
2020-08-03 8:27:21 AM  

Betep: Left foot controls high beams in my summer car


Is the starter down there also

/really wish hadn't sold dads 51 studebaker
 
2020-08-03 8:39:37 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 8:41:24 AM  

ChiliBoots: Any control required in the course of driving really needs to be accessible by muscle memory without having to take eyes of the road. That requirement should probably be explicitly codified in the relevant FMVSS now that touchscreens are a thing.


That's the deal. You totally need to be able to adjust wiper speed while driving. It is a safety issue not to be able to. The driver shouldn't be the one in trouble here, he's using the control system he was provided with, he didn't make alterations or anything.

I like Teslas, I like where they're going with the electric car. But I absolutely think that farking tablet control system is stupid. For one, I like to keep my car as dark as possible when driving at night. Hard to do that with a 32" TV strapped to your dash. Besides control knobs and levers definitely have their place in cars. Like you said, muscle memory. In today's cars, the worst issue you run k to is that nobody can decide which sided should be headlights and which should be wipers, so in an unfamiliar car, you sometimes activate the wrong one. Otherwise, you do it not only without thinking about it, but also without even looking away from the road. It's dumb to remove a system that works and works well.
 
2020-08-03 8:55:22 AM  
If you can't keep your vehicle under control while using the touch screen, you shouldn't be driving.

Step 1: While not driving, go through all the menus and all the options once, commit them to memory

Step 2: Take split second looks while driving, and be able to do whatever you have to without being dangerous

Step 3: ???

Whoever crashed this Tesla sounds like someone who gets made fun of
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 8:56:36 AM  
I don't know ... I drove a S and a X and both had a windshield wiper control stick. I'd like to think all Tesla's have a common design. I didn't have to use the touch screen for the wipers, at all.
 
2020-08-03 10:08:02 AM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: I don't know ... I drove a S and a X and both had a windshield wiper control stick. I'd like to think all Tesla's have a common design. I didn't have to use the touch screen for the wipers, at all.


The 3 and Y don't have the same column. However... if you aren't a dipshiat you just leave your wipers on Auto. Also, the control for wipers isn't even close to another function on the touchscreen. I don't even drive one and after using it a couple of times could turn the wipers on without more than a sideways glance. Also as noted, you can hit the steering wheel control and say "wipers on" and have wipers.

This legal finding was caused by a combination of bad design (because wipers should be on the column dammit), Idiot consumer, Auto laws being super disjointed, and a judge who probably has never driven anything but his mercedes.

If the guy just recently got this car, I get it. Getting in a new, complex car is confusing, be it an Audi, a Ford or a Tesla. But, turning on the wipers is absolutely not a complicated procedure on a model 3.
 
2020-08-03 10:11:23 AM  
2020: People play complex video games and text half the planet with a touchscreen.
2020: people work from home, video conference, and do their taxes with a touchscreen.
2020: people can fly into space, dock with the iss, and make a pinpoint landing in the Gulf of Mexico with a touchscreen.
Also 2020: people can't drive.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 10:25:34 AM  
Touchscreens in cars really really suck. They put them in because they're easy and can handle a hundred different functions... badly.
 
2020-08-03 10:52:02 AM  

Mooammar Al-Cowddafi: "On Tesla's defense, that could probably be overcome if the Model 3 had the automatic mode for the wipers on or if the driver used the voice command to adjust the speed - you can even active farts sound with it."

He didn't activate the fart sounds, so of course it was deadly.


you can also control them with the left stick on the steering wheel, just like any other car.
 
2020-08-03 10:56:46 AM  

Mikey1969: ChiliBoots: In today's cars, the worst issue you run k to is that nobody can decide which sided should be headlights and which should be wipers, so in an unfamiliar car, you sometimes activate the wrong one.


I used to think the location of indicator (left) and wiper (right) stalk was universal standard, then I lived in India for a bit and found the cars there have the indicators on the right. At least the accelerator was still under the right foot, or I think I'd have had problems.
 
2020-08-03 11:26:32 AM  

Swiss Colony: Mikey1969: ChiliBoots: In today's cars, the worst issue you run k to is that nobody can decide which sided should be headlights and which should be wipers, so in an unfamiliar car, you sometimes activate the wrong one.

I used to think the location of indicator (left) and wiper (right) stalk was universal standard, then I lived in India for a bit and found the cars there have the indicators on the right. At least the accelerator was still under the right foot, or I think I'd have had problems.


Yeah, my Cherokee, it's on the left. In my wife's Toyota, the wipers are on the right and the headlight controls on the left. A standard would be REALLY nice... Still better than a touchscreen, though.
 
2020-08-03 11:30:25 AM  
The genius who thought touchscreens were a smart idea in a vehicle is probably the same kind of person that would use lead salts as a sugar replacement.
 
2020-08-03 11:41:14 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Suing Tesla for the feature being that inaccessible in the first place would also be reasonable, that's a pretty nasty design oversight that should have been noted and fixed with basic QA.


This is what happens when you base your engineers in California where it rains only one month of the year, if you're lucky that year.
 
2020-08-03 12:01:08 PM  

SumoJeb: The genius who thought touchscreens were a smart idea in a vehicle is probably the same kind of person that would use lead salts as a sugar replacement.


Or likely also the same person who thought https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki​/Tetraeth​yllead as an octane booster was preferable to ethanol.

Seriously before Leaded Gasoline we thought about using Ethanol to boost octane, but it was passed over because....survey says:  The Chemical companies who couldn't patent ethanol, but rather TEL for profit.
 
2020-08-03 12:39:31 PM  

way south: 2020: People play complex video games and text half the planet with a touchscreen.
2020: people work from home, video conference, and do their taxes with a touchscreen.
2020: people can fly into space, dock with the iss, and make a pinpoint landing in the Gulf of Mexico with a touchscreen.
Also 2020: people can't drive.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Yes.  That's an excellent apples to bowling balls comparison.

1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2020-08-03 1:59:13 PM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: FlashHarry: Touchscreens are terrible ideas on any car. I once test drove a Cadillac XTS, and it was all touchscreen. Not only did it look cheap and nasty, but it was also quite dangerous.

Not only that, but I want to know how and why regulators allowed Tesla to get away with the bullshiat of routing every single function for a vehicle through a touchscreen.  A large majority of people cannot properly operate a motor vehicle as it is.  The touchscreen exacerbates the problem and is one of those, "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" moments.



The answer to your question is that many many forms of regulations are not actively enforced, but reactionary encored after the fact.
So no one has to submit their car plan first and have it approved, in certain ways/not for all things, they are assumed to adhere to common standards and best practices all on their own.

And later after they don't , after it's out in the wild and actually already going on, then we may react to say, don't do that.

No unlike how anyone can actually use anyone's else's copy written works in just the right way, without asking first, and they can't really get in trouble for it, they just have to be sent a strongly worded letter first, to tell them not to do that ever again.


So no one has actual rules that say any named office of the govt has to approve certain aspects of a car design before ti can be allowed out onto the public streets.
 
2020-08-03 7:41:23 PM  

PvtStash: Chief Superintendent Lookout: FlashHarry: Touchscreens are terrible ideas on any car. I once test drove a Cadillac XTS, and it was all touchscreen. Not only did it look cheap and nasty, but it was also quite dangerous.

Not only that, but I want to know how and why regulators allowed Tesla to get away with the bullshiat of routing every single function for a vehicle through a touchscreen.  A large majority of people cannot properly operate a motor vehicle as it is.  The touchscreen exacerbates the problem and is one of those, "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" moments.


The answer to your question is that many many forms of regulations are not actively enforced, but reactionary encored after the fact.
So no one has to submit their car plan first and have it approved, in certain ways/not for all things, they are assumed to adhere to common standards and best practices all on their own.

And later after they don't , after it's out in the wild and actually already going on, then we may react to say, don't do that.

No unlike how anyone can actually use anyone's else's copy written works in just the right way, without asking first, and they can't really get in trouble for it, they just have to be sent a strongly worded letter first, to tell them not to do that ever again.


So no one has actual rules that say any named office of the govt has to approve certain aspects of a car design before ti can be allowed out onto the public streets.


Headlamp and taillamp designs have to meet government regulations in order to be sold.  Safety latches on the hood are required as well by government regulations.

Try again.
 
2020-08-04 5:59:30 AM  

Splinthar: SumoJeb: The genius who thought touchscreens were a smart idea in a vehicle is probably the same kind of person that would use lead salts as a sugar replacement.

Or likely also the same person who thought https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/​Tetraethyllead as an octane booster was preferable to ethanol.

Seriously before Leaded Gasoline we thought about using Ethanol to boost octane, but it was passed over because....survey says:  The Chemical companies who couldn't patent ethanol, but rather TEL for profit.


You can actually use acetone as an octane booster if you want that sort of thing. It is cheap and easily available.

Images from here:

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-08-04 11:55:09 AM  

dready zim: Splinthar: SumoJeb: The genius who thought touchscreens were a smart idea in a vehicle is probably the same kind of person that would use lead salts as a sugar replacement.

Or likely also the same person who thought https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/​Tetraethyllead as an octane booster was preferable to ethanol.

Seriously before Leaded Gasoline we thought about using Ethanol to boost octane, but it was passed over because....survey says:  The Chemical companies who couldn't patent ethanol, but rather TEL for profit.

You can actually use acetone as an octane booster if you want that sort of thing. It is cheap and easily available.

Images from here:

[Fark user image 393x290]
[Fark user image 393x290]


I used to run acetone in a high mileage 88 MR2 as I recall I think it was like an oz for 10 gallons

it smoothed out the idle and increased the power

definitely noticeable
 
2020-08-04 11:55:39 AM  
100% acetone nail polish it was
 
2020-08-04 12:00:00 PM  
Remover whatever I'm a dude though I did paint my nails for 3 years

the female attention was astonishing

girls that would just pass me by otherwise would grab my hands and say I love your nails

sometimes they would Screech in joy

it was weird but cool

blue keeps the devil at Bay

Sparkles makes it spiritual
 
2020-08-04 12:00:40 PM  
gel so I wouldn't have to mess with it and it would last forever
 
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