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(Stat News)   How the world made so much progress on a COVID-19 vaccine so fast even though vaccines typically take years   (statnews.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Vaccination, Vaccine, Immune system, prospective vaccines, potential vaccines, vaccine platforms, SARS-CoV-2, Vaccine Research Center  
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2414 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jul 2020 at 8:27 PM (2 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2 days ago  
But have they?
Get back to us in 6 months

Yes, science is way more advanced than the 1950's. But it ain't over til it's over.
 
2 days ago  

cretinbob: But have they?
Get back to us in 6 months

Yes, science is way more advanced than the 1950's. But it ain't over til it's over.


There's at least two Phase 3 trials going on now.
 
2 days ago  

enry: cretinbob: But have they?
Get back to us in 6 months

Yes, science is way more advanced than the 1950's. But it ain't over til it's over.

There's at least two Phase 3 trials going on now.


Like I said, get back with us in 6 months.
All that's proven so far is that it's not likely to kill you outright.
Cautious optimism is good.
 
2 days ago  
Translation: they still take years, but we're going to rush one in 2 months as a Hail Mary election stunt.

/The trials that just started have been slated to take 2 years.
 
2 days ago  

enry: cretinbob: But have they?
Get back to us in 6 months

Yes, science is way more advanced than the 1950's. But it ain't over til it's over.

There's at least two Phase 3 trials going on now.


There's an expression about counting your chickens...
 
2 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2 days ago  
Counting chickens before they hatch....
 
2 days ago  
If I'm not mistaken, a lot of the work on the SARS vaccine that was done a few years back (and then abandoned because SARS was no longer actively spreading) provided much of the foundation of the current research which has allowed them to have something ready for testing in months as opposed to years.
 
2 days ago  
They threw a lot of money and effort at the problem.

Oh, and it's not 1965.
 
2 days ago  
Nece$$ity i$ the mother of invention.
Frank Zappa
 
2 days ago  
Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.
 
2 days ago  

Snapper Carr: If I'm not mistaken, a lot of the work on the SARS vaccine that was done a few years back (and then abandoned because SARS was no longer actively spreading) provided much of the foundation of the current research which has allowed them to have something ready for testing in months as opposed to years.


That, and the research into MERS are a big part of it. We're also a long way ahead of the old technologies that'd take months just to incubate a prospective vaccine in vats just to get to the point of having something to test.
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.


Well this is Fark where a bunch of morbidly obese and unhappy cuties want everything and everyone to be as farking miserable as they are.
This is all good stuff and hoping the scientific community gets a collar on this thing and we can start getting towards a vaccine soon.
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.


Nope.  You are full of baloney.  Nobody wants a vaccine to fail.  And I hate Trump as much as anyone.
 
2 days ago  
What I got out of this is that the record for creating the fastest working vaccine is 4 years.  Sure, we'll have one by January.  Sure.
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.


And here to say, what the fark is wrong with you people?
I've been on Fark a long damn time and I've never seen so much rooting for a disease to win. Especially one that has affected everyone's life in significant ways.
I mean, shiat, as a medical professional I don't expect a magic 95% effective minimal side effect vaccine next year, but we really only need something with 60-70% effectiveness to end this thing for all practical purposes (dumbass antivaxxers notwithstanding). Even a 40-50% effective vaccine would tremendously slow the disease, and I suspect we could very well wind up with that.
Some of you people are taking too many or not enough meds.

/may have underestimated Fark's misanthropic tendencies
//I know [welcometofark.jpg]
///three
 
2 days ago  
For all the pessimists and cynics who DRTFA:

1.  This virus is similar enough to previous coronaviruses, notably SARS and MERS, that the previous research into those has been useful, so researchers aren't starting from scratch.
2.  Because the virus can be fought off by an immune response and then is gone forever (or at least gets you immunity for some time), it's easier to mimic that with a vaccine than it is for a virus that stays with you forever, such as HIV.
3. New technologies have been developed that weren't available for past viruses, so there are brand new tools that have sped things up.
4. Everybody on Earth is focusing on this in a way that has never happened before.  Money for once isn't a limiting factor in the development of a vaccine, because the whole world is desperate for a vaccine; thus it's merely a race to be first. Also, governments are throwing unprecedented amounts of money to support the race, as well as tearing down regulatory hurdles that normally slow down the process.

And TFA does caution against undue hope, tempering expectations against what we might get sooner than later.
 
2 days ago  

farknozzle: I've been on Fark a long damn time and I've never seen so much rooting for a disease to win. Especially one that has affected everyone's life in significant ways.


There may be a few misanthropes rooting for the disease to win, but most of the pessimism I've seen here comes from people who are, well, pessimistic.

This I understand. I believe in expecting the worst so I'm never disappointed.

But science will win this one. Eventually.
 
2 days ago  
Who is shipping a clinically proven vaccine?

People have been trying to make vaccines for various virii since the discovery of it. Some methods work for specific virus, some don't. Some you give live, weakened or killed. some you give a familial virus with less virulency and severe symptoms, such as cowpox for smallpox.

It sounds simple but it isn't. coronaviruses and the flu will NEVER have a typical vaccine like the measles. The fundamental biology prevents it.

What they SHOULD be doing is looking into prophylactic drugs like camostat mesilate, which is generic and off patent and PROVEN to block SARS and SARS2/Covid19 cell entry by inhibiting it's protein spike via protease inhibition.


But that would require people to take 6 pills a day to keep inhibition active. Its doable. It would cost pennies a day per person. It's been off patent so long it is GRAS and so no chance it'll go when they can sell remdesivir on patent for $4k a treatment without guaranteed results.

Hell as far as lab results go EVERY opiate known to man has consistently ranked among the highest in inhibition of covid19. Heroin for everyone.
 
2 days ago  
Necessity. Mother. Invention.

And cash, big farking piles of cash, massive amounts, so much cash you can swim in it while coked out of your mind with your own private army of aspiring models
 
2 days ago  
All I want to know is if these rushed vaccines will still fall under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. I believe in vaccination, but there's still a literal 1 in a Million chance that a complication can arise, even with vaccines that have been used for decades or almost a century. I doubt we're going to have any idea of long-term effects from a rushed program/study
 
2 days ago  
The section "Money, money, money" is the only one relevant.  The others are drops in the bucket.  Invent a vaccine every person on earth needs, charge whatever you want for it due to said need, and be seen as a hero in the process?  No pharma money counter's going to pass that one up.
 
2 days ago  

wxboy: For all the pessimists and cynics who DRTFA:

[...]

And TFA does caution against undue hope, tempering expectations against what we might get sooner than later.


Thanks for writing the summary I would've written, but better!

/I claim credentials because I look out my lab window and see the Vaccine Research Center at NIH
 
2 days ago  
1. Technological progress in general. We're living in the future now, when a pocket-sized USB device can sequence entire genomes while you're on your lunch break.

2. Previous work on related diseases (SARS/MERS). Those diseases either disappeared on their own or were never serious enough to justify a huge effort, but people did make quite a bit of progress on developing vaccines for them.

3. Throwing money at it. This time the world's governments are motivated to fund a lot of different efforts in parallel (and to start bulk manufacturing of some candidates in parallel with their clinical trials).

So far things are looking good. It's not the best-case scenario since it's looking like people will need at least 2 doses of the vaccine, but there haven't really been any major failures yet. I'd say the odds are good of having at least one vaccine available for selected groups by the end of this year, with widespread availability of a vaccine (not necessarily the same one) in the first half of 2021.

One of the few advantages of having out-of-control infections in large countries like the USA and Brazil is that it speeds up the Phase 3 trials and avoids the need for ethically-questionable challenge trials. Let the test subjects hang around their local schools and bars for a few months and you'll have plenty of natural infections in the control group (hopefully fewer in the vaccinated group).
 
2 days ago  

Creoena: The section "Money, money, money" is the only one relevant.  The others are drops in the bucket.  Invent a vaccine every person on earth needs, charge whatever you want for it due to said need, and be seen as a hero in the process?  No pharma money counter's going to pass that one up.


I was chatting with some directors at JnJ last week (job interview) and pharma's not gonna make much money on a covid vaccine. Not directly at least. The need is too immediate and even the bean counters can't justify skimming off the top.

They'll get bragging rights and good press. Which may not be cold hard cash but may be more valuable.
 
2 days ago  
Before I click the article: Because they either had 3/4 of one already built from SARS and MERS or because there are already vaccines that they think will work they just have to actually test them now. 

Skimmed article: Yeah, sounds about right.
 
2 days ago  
By Cutting corners, taking risks with human life, and rushing production.

"Textbook clinical trials include three increasingly large phases that establish how safe and effective a drug or vaccine is. But with the Covid-19 pandemic, some of the trials have been collapsed into Phase 1/2 or Phase 2/3 trials. It's a wonky distinction, but it can shave weeks or months off the process by saving research teams from having to write new protocols or get additional clearances. "

"The speed of vaccine development can also have an adverse effect. Some people have questioned how such a fast-moving process can ensure safety and might abstain from a vaccine. An Associated Press poll in May found that Black and Latinx Americans, who have been disproportionately harmed by the pandemic and have a history of mistreatment by the medical field, are more skeptical about Covid-19 vaccines than white Americans - showing the importance of outreach campaigns that public health experts say are required to increase the uptake of immunizations."

So you rabid vaccinators are kinda racist too.
 
2 days ago  
Never would have guessed.
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.


'Pointing out that rushing medication out has backfired badly in the past' is not 'wanting vaccines to fail'.
 
2 days ago  

fark'emfeed'emfish: By Cutting corners, taking risks with human life, and rushing production.

"Textbook clinical trials include three increasingly large phases that establish how safe and effective a drug or vaccine is. But with the Covid-19 pandemic, some of the trials have been collapsed into Phase 1/2 or Phase 2/3 trials. It's a wonky distinction, but it can shave weeks or months off the process by saving research teams from having to write new protocols or get additional clearances. "

"The speed of vaccine development can also have an adverse effect. Some people have questioned how such a fast-moving process can ensure safety and might abstain from a vaccine. An Associated Press poll in May found that Black and Latinx Americans, who have been disproportionately harmed by the pandemic and have a history of mistreatment by the medical field, are more skeptical about Covid-19 vaccines than white Americans - showing the importance of outreach campaigns that public health experts say are required to increase the uptake of immunizations."

So you rabid vaccinators are kinda racist too.


Can't imagine why minority populations would be skeptical of rushed medications. It's not like corporations and the US government have a long, storied history of basically using them as lab rats without their consent.
 
2 days ago  

LordJiro: fark'emfeed'emfish: By Cutting corners, taking risks with human life, and rushing production.

"Textbook clinical trials include three increasingly large phases that establish how safe and effective a drug or vaccine is. But with the Covid-19 pandemic, some of the trials have been collapsed into Phase 1/2 or Phase 2/3 trials. It's a wonky distinction, but it can shave weeks or months off the process by saving research teams from having to write new protocols or get additional clearances. "

"The speed of vaccine development can also have an adverse effect. Some people have questioned how such a fast-moving process can ensure safety and might abstain from a vaccine. An Associated Press poll in May found that Black and Latinx Americans, who have been disproportionately harmed by the pandemic and have a history of mistreatment by the medical field, are more skeptical about Covid-19 vaccines than white Americans - showing the importance of outreach campaigns that public health experts say are required to increase the uptake of immunizations."

So you rabid vaccinators are kinda racist too.

Can't imagine why minority populations would be skeptical of rushed medications. It's not like corporations and the US government have a long, storied history of basically using them as lab rats without their consent.


Yup. Just them.
 
2 days ago  
Incentives

Both financial and moral
And a touch of nationalism thrown in
 
2 days ago  
1) It turns out that the entire world working on nothing but one thing with an effectively infinite budget can produce results pretty quick.

2) Some of y'all need to spend the weekend petting some puppies or something, look at a sunset, run through a field of wheat, jesus.
 
2 days ago  
$$$$$ of course
 
2 days ago  
not to worry, whether it works or not, it will be a mandatory annual vaccine. Cha-CHING for the pharm companies!
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.


You're a jackass.  No one "wants" them to fail.

Many of us are tired of have smoke up our asses...so like was stated before...."cautious optimism".  Humans and science are amazing together, but that doesn't mean I'm cracking the champagne over a couple of tidy studies... particularly when big money is going to be involved for the Weeners the post.
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.


And if you want to be cynical: this was made possible by the letter 'terror' and the color 'worldwide death count'.

/still awesome though
 
2 days ago  

aseras: Who is shipping a clinically proven vaccine?

People have been trying to make vaccines for various virii since the discovery of it. Some methods work for specific virus, some don't. Some you give live, weakened or killed. some you give a familial virus with less virulency and severe symptoms, such as cowpox for smallpox.

It sounds simple but it isn't. coronaviruses and the flu will NEVER have a typical vaccine like the measles. The fundamental biology prevents it.

What they SHOULD be doing is looking into prophylactic drugs like camostat mesilate, which is generic and off patent and PROVEN to block SARS and SARS2/Covid19 cell entry by inhibiting it's protein spike via protease inhibition.


But that would require people to take 6 pills a day to keep inhibition active. Its doable. It would cost pennies a day per person. It's been off patent so long it is GRAS and so no chance it'll go when they can sell remdesivir on patent for $4k a treatment without guaranteed results.

Hell as far as lab results go EVERY opiate known to man has consistently ranked among the highest in inhibition of covid19. Heroin for everyone.


Citation needed for camostat mesilate being useful and for opiates getting the job done.

If opiates are good, then maybe methadone for those of us who don't want to get high?
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.


You fail to see the huge difference between rooting for a disease and having doubts about a vaccine. Wishful thinking is for religion.
 
2 days ago  

Russ1642: bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

You fail to see the huge difference between rooting for a disease and having doubts about a vaccine. Wishful thinking is for religion.


You still all are pessimists and cynics, which are states of mind that lead to a sad existence.
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.


Who says that they want it to fail?
 
2 days ago  

wxboy: Russ1642: bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

You fail to see the huge difference between rooting for a disease and having doubts about a vaccine. Wishful thinking is for religion.

You still all are pessimists and cynics, which are states of mind that lead to a sad existence.


And you're a religious nutjob. Go ahead and pray the virus away. Thoughts and prayers. Happy thoughts will make it all better.
 
2 days ago  

wxboy: Russ1642: bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

You fail to see the huge difference between rooting for a disease and having doubts about a vaccine. Wishful thinking is for religion.

You still all are pessimists and cynics, which are states of mind that lead to a sad existence.


Not at all
 
2 days ago  
I hear them talking a lot about vaccines in the UK and the US and I wonder is that because both places have ruling parties that badly botched the covid 19 response.

We all need a viable vaccine so I'll put my cynicism to one side and cheer all the hard work instead.
 
2 days ago  

koder: Translation: they still take years, but we're going to rush one in 2 months as a Hail Mary election stunt.

/The trials that just started have been slated to take 2 years.


The trials are.

Distribution can begin sooner.
 
2 days ago  

bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

Vaccines for this disease, this quick, are proof of human ingenuity in motion. If we come together and focus, cut the BS, we can achieve dang near anything.


Well if it wasn't for THOSE assholes, we could get it done.

You know the ones I mean.
 
2 days ago  

Surrender your boo-tah: koder: Translation: they still take years, but we're going to rush one in 2 months as a Hail Mary election stunt.

/The trials that just started have been slated to take 2 years.

The trials are.

Distribution can begin sooner.


Yeah, let's all take a "vaccine" that hasn't gone through proper trials so Trump can get re-elected.
 
2 days ago  

wxboy: Russ1642: bobbyjoebobby: Sheesh. A lot of people here on Fark want these vaccines to fail. Can't imagine why.

You fail to see the huge difference between rooting for a disease and having doubts about a vaccine. Wishful thinking is for religion.

You still all are pessimists and cynics, which are states of mind that lead to a sad existence.


Nope. I always expect the worst. Either I'm wrong, which means something good has happened and that makes me happy -- or I'm right, and being right always makes me happy.
 
2 days ago  
I will be very happy if Operation OS/2 Warp Speed produces a safe, effective vaccine.
 
2 days ago  
$2 million. I can get chickens car chargers and wax (for injection s) no matter. Most of you won't remember anyway.  Where's McConnell, I'll need blood of turtles.
 
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