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3548 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 30 Jul 2020 at 11:05 AM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-30 10:54:38 AM  
I'm working 40 hours and can barely afford the shiatty motel room I live in (still about $100 month cheaper than a regular apt). I don't have enough money to date, let alone start a family.

Pay people more, subsidize/regulate housing, allow people to make an actual living at a single job without overtime wnd they will start having kids again. Every few months we get these articles which always glosses over the fact that people just can't afford kids.
 
2020-07-30 11:04:42 AM  
You know, we could encourage immigration to bulk up those numbers but...oh, that's right, some folks seem to have a problem with those people living The American Dream, don't they?
 
2020-07-30 11:06:25 AM  
I'm ok with this.
 
2020-07-30 11:07:15 AM  
Thats why republicans are so pro immigration, they just want what is best for the economy
 
2020-07-30 11:08:01 AM  
It's all part of the plan.

"Under no circumstances go to P4C-970"

http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com​/​wiki/P4C-970
 
2020-07-30 11:08:32 AM  
i decided this decades ago. if i have to work for every dollar i have, i ain't sharing it with a baby. fark babies. they can work too.
 
2020-07-30 11:09:25 AM  
Maybe you should adopt any of the thousands of needy children in the foster care system, article writer.
 
2020-07-30 11:10:32 AM  
If the overlords want us to breed for them, then maybe they should stop driving the world over a cliff for profit.
 
2020-07-30 11:11:11 AM  
Bad for the economy, great for the planet... I'd take the planet over the economy anyday.
 
2020-07-30 11:12:18 AM  
Well, a voluntary reduction of the population would help a lot with the climate and other environmental issues. Though it probably would require a significant re-wiring of the economy since it's currently in "eternal exponential growth or collapse"-mode, and something tells me an awful lot of money doesn't like the sound of that. Still, since said money also doesn't like the sound of stuff like what tjsands1118 suggested above it may not get much of a choice in the end. Let's just hope the rest of us make it through the ensuing crash somewhat un-mauled.
 
2020-07-30 11:13:00 AM  
Because just what the Earth needs. More people.
 
2020-07-30 11:14:35 AM  
I became pregnant in March (surprise!). We've been married over 8 years and it never happened for us, who would've thought? No, this isn't an optimal time to have a kid at all. Everything is up in the air, nothing is certain. I don't even know for sure if my husband can be in the delivery room with me in December much less if our jobs are stable in the long run.
 
2020-07-30 11:14:44 AM  

tjsands1118: I'm working 40 hours and can barely afford the shiatty motel room I live in (still about $100 month cheaper than a regular apt). I don't have enough money to date, let alone start a family.

Pay people more, subsidize/regulate housing, allow people to make an actual living at a single job without overtime wnd they will start having kids again. Every few months we get these articles which always glosses over the fact that people just can't afford kids.


Try moving? I did, made a huge difference in finding work. I wasn't in an economically depressed area either, I was in Toronto. Problem was there are so many well-educated people there, that people who only have high school like myself are left with crap jobs. The small city I moved who has the opposite issue: all the young people who went to university in big cities didn't come back, so there is a lack of good workers. Also, because there are less people applying for the same job, employers are less likely to find the exact person they want, and are much more willing to train.

Went from working construction labour and call center at $15/h, to machinist apprentice, now $22, and expect $30 when I'm done.
 
2020-07-30 11:14:46 AM  
Hubby got a vasectomy last year. Best gift ever.
 
2020-07-30 11:15:26 AM  
I'm not seeing a problem here. Ohhhhhhhhh... the article mentioned the EU specifically... so it's WHITE people not having babies these researchers are concerned with? Did they even bother to check the rest of the planet? The other 88.5% of us?

Get back to me when that happens. Still not concerned.
 
2020-07-30 11:18:48 AM  

tjsands1118: I'm working 40 hours and can barely afford the shiatty motel room I live in (still about $100 month cheaper than a regular apt). I don't have enough money to date, let alone start a family.

Pay people more, subsidize/regulate housing, allow people to make an actual living at a single job without overtime wnd they will start having kids again. Every few months we get these articles which always glosses over the fact that people just can't afford kids.


My wife and I are financially stable and we came to the same conclusion. We both make good money but the cost of having a kid is outrageous. And then either one of us stays home which cuts our income in half or we send the kid to a daycare which costs thousands a year. Either way we'd be cutting our income significantly while simultaneously adding another mouth to feed. Adding a kid would move us from solidly middle class to borderline poor.

We like not having to worry about bills or money or food on the table so we'll pass on having a kid thank you very much.
 
2020-07-30 11:19:09 AM  
Americans Aren't Making Babies, and That's Bad for the Economy

God damn it, for ONCE will you assholes stop thinking about money?
 
2020-07-30 11:19:57 AM  
A couple things...

First, a natural consequence of a country modernizing is that its citizens have fewer babies. As the healthcare situation improves infant mortality drops and the people are moved off of agrarian and subsistence lifestyles where they need the extra labor (and were previously having lots of kids because the mortality rate for the children was high enough they needed spares) there are incentives to have fewer children. This happens pretty consistently across the world as underdeveloped nations get developed and modernize. It is natural, and not a bad thing.

But here in the US we have been allowing our oligarchs to wage largely unchecked class warfare against everyone else for decades. People are less financially able to support children, and we don't all live on farms now so children are a cost and not free labor now, so they will have fewer of them. It's why I didn't have any - my wife and I were living just about paycheck to paycheck until we got to our late 30's, and by that point we had gotten so old that having children would be possible but problematic in a few different ways.

Just think about the situation here in the US. Back when baby boomers (who've been setting policy for decades) were born there was usually one "head of household" earning income while the other parent could care for the kids. Now two income households are the norm, with many people even having second jobs on top of that. Childcare is thus in very high demand, and so extremely expensive, making it hard to have children because you've already got both parents working to make ends meet as it is. So there's another disincentive.

If you want to see more births, without even getting in to the issue of whether that's really a good idea or not, then you have to address income inequality in America.
 
2020-07-30 11:21:31 AM  

whidbey: Americans Aren't Making Babies, and That's Bad for the Economy

God damn it, for ONCE will you assholes stop thinking about money?


Profit is sacred to our people.
 
2020-07-30 11:24:40 AM  
No one ever told economists that growth forever in a closed system is unsustainable.
 
2020-07-30 11:24:56 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-30 11:29:36 AM  
I'm thank the gods every day that my kids are grown.

/No grandchildren  would be fine with me.
// Dogs are nice
///fark the economy
 
2020-07-30 11:33:01 AM  

EmmaLou: I became pregnant in March (surprise!). We've been married over 8 years and it never happened for us, who would've thought? No, this isn't an optimal time to have a kid at all. Everything is up in the air, nothing is certain. I don't even know for sure if my husband can be in the delivery room with me in December much less if our jobs are stable in the long run.


Ugh. I hadn't thought of the delivery room. I'm getting my IUD pulled next month because I don't have to go back to work until January and damnit, if I'm going to puke in the morning, I'm going to do it in my own bathroom!
 
2020-07-30 11:36:23 AM  
My hysterectomy is the greatest thing I have ever spent money on.

That said, if you spend decades ripping up every social safety net, making college exponentially more expensive, annihilating the job market, letting jobs go overseas, ramping up the cost of housing, preventing the increase of minimum wage, then you burn down the economy for giggles... you have no right to judge people for refusing to have children.

/the world is burning and you want us to have more victims of the fire?
 
2020-07-30 11:37:37 AM  

RussianPotato: It's all part of the plan.

"Under no circumstances go to P4C-970"

http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/​wiki/P4C-970


That's the only episode of Stargate I've watched.  It was okay.
 
2020-07-30 11:39:37 AM  

whidbey: Americans Aren't Making Babies, and That's Bad for the Economy

God damn it, for ONCE will you assholes stop thinking about money?


It's a Bloomberg article.  Bloomberg is business (money) news specifically.
 
2020-07-30 11:42:08 AM  

mongbiohazard: A couple things...

First, a natural consequence of a country modernizing is that its citizens have fewer babies. As the healthcare situation improves infant mortality drops and the people are moved off of agrarian and subsistence lifestyles where they need the extra labor (and were previously having lots of kids because the mortality rate for the children was high enough they needed spares) there are incentives to have fewer children. This happens pretty consistently across the world as underdeveloped nations get developed and modernize. It is natural, and not a bad thing.

But here in the US we have been allowing our oligarchs to wage largely unchecked class warfare against everyone else for decades. People are less financially able to support children, and we don't all live on farms now so children are a cost and not free labor now, so they will have fewer of them. It's why I didn't have any - my wife and I were living just about paycheck to paycheck until we got to our late 30's, and by that point we had gotten so old that having children would be possible but problematic in a few different ways.

Just think about the situation here in the US. Back when baby boomers (who've been setting policy for decades) were born there was usually one "head of household" earning income while the other parent could care for the kids. Now two income households are the norm, with many people even having second jobs on top of that. Childcare is thus in very high demand, and so extremely expensive, making it hard to have children because you've already got both parents working to make ends meet as it is. So there's another disincentive.

If you want to see more births, without even getting in to the issue of whether that's really a good idea or not, then you have to address income inequality in America.


Your logic is faulty, and you actually touch upon why.

If poor people in the US were less poor, they would have fewer kids.  Properly addressing income inequality would lower the birth rate, not raise it.
 
2020-07-30 11:47:39 AM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: We both make good money but the cost of having a kid is outrageous.


Have you considered neglect?  That may be the best option for you.
 
2020-07-30 11:51:34 AM  
"Always willing to help the economy.  My services are always available"  -- Texas Lt. Gov Dan Patrick, aka the Texas guy, from Baltimore, who is never photographed with a Texas flag


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-30 11:53:35 AM  

hubiestubert: You know, we could encourage immigration to bulk up those numbers but...oh, that's right, some folks seem to have a problem with those people living The American Dream, don't they?


hells no, that's a great idea. dad making top wages working at Burger King or wielding a leaf blower. have a dozen kids, get paid under the table, don't pay taxes, don't have insurance. america needs more of this coast to coast. what could go wrong?
 
2020-07-30 11:55:28 AM  
Long after the pandemic is over?? Lol

This pandemic will last the rest of our lifetimes.
 
2020-07-30 12:05:59 PM  
The best and easiest solution to our longevity on this planet relies on reducing and stabilizing our population but this is somehow the most controversial.

And in some weird selective pressure reversal, it's the dumbest and most useless people that continue to reproduce the most in our current world.
 
2020-07-30 12:13:55 PM  

iheartscotch: Maybe you should adopt any of the thousands of needy children in the foster care system, article writer.


Cause they are already borned, duh.
 
2020-07-30 12:15:49 PM  

Geotpf: mongbiohazard: A couple things...

First, a natural consequence of a country modernizing is that its citizens have fewer babies. As the healthcare situation improves infant mortality drops and the people are moved off of agrarian and subsistence lifestyles where they need the extra labor (and were previously having lots of kids because the mortality rate for the children was high enough they needed spares) there are incentives to have fewer children. This happens pretty consistently across the world as underdeveloped nations get developed and modernize. It is natural, and not a bad thing.

But here in the US we have been allowing our oligarchs to wage largely unchecked class warfare against everyone else for decades. People are less financially able to support children, and we don't all live on farms now so children are a cost and not free labor now, so they will have fewer of them. It's why I didn't have any - my wife and I were living just about paycheck to paycheck until we got to our late 30's, and by that point we had gotten so old that having children would be possible but problematic in a few different ways.

Just think about the situation here in the US. Back when baby boomers (who've been setting policy for decades) were born there was usually one "head of household" earning income while the other parent could care for the kids. Now two income households are the norm, with many people even having second jobs on top of that. Childcare is thus in very high demand, and so extremely expensive, making it hard to have children because you've already got both parents working to make ends meet as it is. So there's another disincentive.

If you want to see more births, without even getting in to the issue of whether that's really a good idea or not, then you have to address income inequality in America.

Your logic is faulty, and you actually touch upon why.

If poor people in the US were less poor, they would have fewer kids.  Properly addressing income inequality would lower the birth rate, not raise it.


Nope. I provided the necessary context in there, but I think you missed it. It obviously wasn't clear, a failing of my writing, so I'll elaborate. Poverty in an undeveloped nation is not in the same context as poverty in a developed nation.

In an undeveloped nation people rely on subsistence farming, and they have high infant and child mortality. More children are for them not a cost, but instead an asset. They can put those children to work helping support the family. And since they are likely to have several of their children die they need to have larger families in order to have replacements ready. They're incentivised to have lots of children. In an undeveloped nation, each additional child is an asset which adds to your family's ability to feed itself. You can put them to work even when they're still very young, helping produce more resources/wealth for your family.

In a developed nation children are a cost, not an asset (I'm speaking in a purely economic sense, yes, yes, I know you love your kids and they enrich your lives - that's not salient here). They need care which parents can't give them if they're out working a job in an office or something. On top of that, infant and child mortality is much, much lower. You don't need to have lots of children to have it be likely a few will survive into adulthood. So people are incentivised to have fewer. In a developed nation, each additional child costs more of your household budget and eats in to your family's ability to feed itself. if you have another kid you can't send them out to get a job when they're still children. They're a cost until they finally set out on their own when adults (which even that is increasingly delayed in the US due to our structural economic issues).

In a developed nation, having less money means reduced incentives for having children. So people have fewer, because in general people act according to their incentives.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2020-07-30 12:17:00 PM  
Let's wait and see if there's a baby boom when people decide the pandemic is over.
 
2020-07-30 12:21:31 PM  

ZAZ: Let's wait and see if there's a baby boom when people decide the pandemic is over.


I wouldn't count on a large one. I'd expect a modest increase at most.

We're just at the opening phase of our country's second Great Depression.
 
2020-07-30 12:27:18 PM  

BooksontheBrain: EmmaLou: I became pregnant in March (surprise!). We've been married over 8 years and it never happened for us, who would've thought? No, this isn't an optimal time to have a kid at all. Everything is up in the air, nothing is certain. I don't even know for sure if my husband can be in the delivery room with me in December much less if our jobs are stable in the long run.

Ugh. I hadn't thought of the delivery room. I'm getting my IUD pulled next month because I don't have to go back to work until January and damnit, if I'm going to puke in the morning, I'm going to do it in my own bathroom!


Why do people puke into the toilet? Why not punk into a clean container then pour into the toilet?
I don't know why I didn't think of this for 40 years.
 
2020-07-30 12:32:08 PM  

waxbeans: BooksontheBrain: EmmaLou: I became pregnant in March (surprise!). We've been married over 8 years and it never happened for us, who would've thought? No, this isn't an optimal time to have a kid at all. Everything is up in the air, nothing is certain. I don't even know for sure if my husband can be in the delivery room with me in December much less if our jobs are stable in the long run.

Ugh. I hadn't thought of the delivery room. I'm getting my IUD pulled next month because I don't have to go back to work until January and damnit, if I'm going to puke in the morning, I'm going to do it in my own bathroom!

Why do people puke into the toilet? Why not punk into a clean container then pour into the toilet?
I don't know why I didn't think of this for 40 years.


Try to avoid puking into your sink.

I made that mistake once.
 
2020-07-30 12:33:13 PM  

whisper in the wind: Long after the pandemic is over?? Lol

This pandemic will last the rest of our lifetimes.


We haven't gotten to the point where the sick are driven out of town to die since the hospitals are overwhelmed beyond fixing.

How Marseilles handled it.  They built a wall.  Cannes became the alternate tourist mecca for Brits.  Thanks plague.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P​l​ague_of_Marseille#:~:text=The%20Great%​20Plague%20of%20Marseille,in%20surroun​ding%20provinces%20and%20towns.

few days later, the disease broke out in the city. Hospitals were quickly overwhelmed, and residents panicked, driving the sick from their homes and out of the city. Mass graves were dug but were quickly filled. Eventually the number of dead overcame city public health efforts, until thousands of corpses lay scattered and in piles around the city.
Attempts to stop the spread of plague included an Act of the Parlement of Aix that levied the death penalty for any communication between Marseille and the rest of Provence. To enforce this separation, a plague wall, or mur de la peste, was erected across the countryside. The wall was built of dry stone, 2 m high and 70 cm thick, with guard posts set back from the wall. Remains of the wall can still be seen in different parts of the Plateau de Vaucluse.
 
2020-07-30 12:35:29 PM  

BooksontheBrain: EmmaLou: I became pregnant in March (surprise!). We've been married over 8 years and it never happened for us, who would've thought? No, this isn't an optimal time to have a kid at all. Everything is up in the air, nothing is certain. I don't even know for sure if my husband can be in the delivery room with me in December much less if our jobs are stable in the long run.

Ugh. I hadn't thought of the delivery room. I'm getting my IUD pulled next month because I don't have to go back to work until January and damnit, if I'm going to puke in the morning, I'm going to do it in my own bathroom!


1) My husband was just allowed into my doctor's appointments in time for the anatomy scan, where we ended up with a nice video showing that, yes, it's definitely a boy. So, things might not be so bad, but it's something to consider.

2) I didn't deal with much morning sickness, but when I did those bags that they have at the doctor's office are available relatively cheaply on Amazon and fit in a bag or a car glove box and come in handy.
 
2020-07-30 12:38:21 PM  
Here's an easy fix. 1.0 APY no down payment 21 year mortgages to all pregnant women.
Done.
I'll be here all week.
 
2020-07-30 12:41:17 PM  

IRestoreFurniture: .

Try to avoid puking into your sink.

I made that mistake once.


Yes. OMG.
One time, me my bbf and his bbf and my wife all drank a bottle of MD2020 we all ended up throwing up in a different part of our tiny one bedroom apartment. My in the sink. Someone on the carpet in the living room. "Living room" lol. And one in the restroom. And an other in the "bedroom" lol
🤮🤮🤮🤮
 
2020-07-30 12:41:44 PM  
So the economy is based on a pyramid scheme?
 
2020-07-30 12:49:16 PM  

waxbeans: BooksontheBrain: EmmaLou: I became pregnant in March (surprise!). We've been married over 8 years and it never happened for us, who would've thought? No, this isn't an optimal time to have a kid at all. Everything is up in the air, nothing is certain. I don't even know for sure if my husband can be in the delivery room with me in December much less if our jobs are stable in the long run.

Ugh. I hadn't thought of the delivery room. I'm getting my IUD pulled next month because I don't have to go back to work until January and damnit, if I'm going to puke in the morning, I'm going to do it in my own bathroom!

Why do people puke into the toilet? Why not punk into a clean container then pour into the toilet?
I don't know why I didn't think of this for 40 years.


My family always used our big old soup pot right by the bed if someone was nauseous.  "Soap cleans everything" my parents would say.
 
2020-07-30 12:51:21 PM  
I had 6 kids from 98 to 06. It's been the best part of my life and the worst. However, should I win some lottery, I will adopt every baby from every corner of the world that I can. Raising kids would be sheer joy if money wasn't an obstacle.
 
2020-07-30 12:51:43 PM  

mongbiohazard: In an undeveloped nation people rely on subsistence farming, and they have high infant and child mortality. More children are for them not a cost, but instead an asset. They can put those children to work helping support the family. And since they are likely to have several of their children die they need to have larger families in order to have replacements ready. They're incentivised to have lots of children. In an undeveloped nation, each additional child is an asset which adds to your family's ability to feed itself. You can put them to work even when they're still very young, helping produce more resources/wealth for your family.

In a developed nation children are a cost, not an asset (I'm speaking in a purely economic sense, yes, yes, I know you love your kids and they enrich your lives - that's not salient here). They need care which parents can't give them if they're out working a job in an office or something. On top of that, infant and child mortality is much, much lower. You don't need to have lots of children to have it be likely a few will survive into adulthood. So people are incentivised to have fewer. In a developed nation, each additional child costs more of your household budget and eats in to your family's ability to feed itself. if you have another kid you can't send them out to get a job when they're still children. They're a cost until they finally set out on their own when adults (which even that is increasingly delayed in the US due to our structural economic issues).

In a developed nation, having less money means reduced incentives for having children. So people have fewer, because in general people act according to their incentives.


Even in developed nations, on average, rich people have fewer children than poor people do.  This happens in every country on the planet.  The "poor people have fewer kids" trend doesn't stop once the level of income goes above the obvious benefit of more kids (extra help on a subsidence farm).

Therefore, if you make poor people less poor, they will have fewer kids, period.  This works if you from a dollar a day to ten, and from ten to thirty, and thirty to a hundred, and from a hundred to a thousand.

Here's some new US data: https://www.statista.com/statis​tics/24​1530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-th​e-us/

Under $10k yearly income: 66.44 per thousand women
10k-15k: 59.58
15k-25k: 61.59
25k-35k: 60.45
35k-50k: 57.99
50k-75k: 53.38
75k-100k: 51.70
100k-150k: 48.49
150k-200k: 45.23
200k+: 43.92

Other than the anomaly at 10k-15k (probably just statistical noise), birth rates drop in as you go up in every income bracket.
 
2020-07-30 12:53:16 PM  
"poor richpeople have fewer kids"

Fark lacks an edit function.
 
2020-07-30 12:54:05 PM  

RussianPotato: waxbeans: BooksontheBrain: EmmaLou: I became pregnant in March (surprise!). We've been married over 8 years and it never happened for us, who would've thought? No, this isn't an optimal time to have a kid at all. Everything is up in the air, nothing is certain. I don't even know for sure if my husband can be in the delivery room with me in December much less if our jobs are stable in the long run.

Ugh. I hadn't thought of the delivery room. I'm getting my IUD pulled next month because I don't have to go back to work until January and damnit, if I'm going to puke in the morning, I'm going to do it in my own bathroom!

Why do people puke into the toilet? Why not punk into a clean container then pour into the toilet?
I don't know why I didn't think of this for 40 years.

My family always used our big old soup pot right by the bed if someone was nauseous.  "Soap cleans everything" my parents would say.


Puking in the toilet should be everyone's default, and containers for emergencies. Actually, barf bags from the hospital are great, but you still have to dump and throw away. Toilets, when properly kept up, are clean and get rid of the mess instantly. We clean our bathroom several times a week.
 
2020-07-30 12:56:06 PM  

RussianPotato: .

My family always used our big old soup pot right by the bed if someone was nauseous.  "Soap cleans everything" my parents would say.


"Soap cleans everything" my parents would say.

🤣😎
In our family we say that about diarrhea
 
2020-07-30 12:56:39 PM  
Having kids is stupid.

It's probably why stupid people have tons of them.
 
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