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(Minneapolis Star Tribune)   Officer accused of aiding George Floyd's death says charges should be dropped because he wasn't really paying attention and didn't know the other cops were doing anything wrong   (startribune.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Murder, Tou Thao, Criminal law, Manslaughter, former Minneapolis police officers, felony charges, bystander's cellphone video keeping people, Robert Paule  
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1904 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2020 at 7:29 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-29 10:44:36 PM  
Attorneys for Tou Thao, who was seen on a bystander's cellphone video keeping people at bay while Floyd was being held down, asked Hennepin County District Judge Peter Cahill to toss the two aiding-and-abetting charges "on the grounds that they are not supported by probable cause."

The lawyers, Robert Paule and Natalie Paule of Minneapolis, argue in their three-page motion that county prosecutors had failed to show that Thao knew that Chauvin and the other officers were going to commit a crime. They also argue that prosecutors failed to show that Thao's presence or actions at the scene were done "to further commission of that crime."


shiat. That may actually work. The spirit of the law always loses when technicalities are in play. It sucks ass.
 
2020-07-29 10:55:27 PM  
If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?
 
2020-07-29 10:58:04 PM  
memegenerator.netView Full Size

It should come to you in less than 8 1/2 minutes.
 
2020-07-29 11:12:44 PM  

cman: Attorneys for Tou Thao, who was seen on a bystander's cellphone video keeping people at bay while Floyd was being held down, asked Hennepin County District Judge Peter Cahill to toss the two aiding-and-abetting charges "on the grounds that they are not supported by probable cause."

The lawyers, Robert Paule and Natalie Paule of Minneapolis, argue in their three-page motion that county prosecutors had failed to show that Thao knew that Chauvin and the other officers were going to commit a crime. They also argue that prosecutors failed to show that Thao's presence or actions at the scene were done "to further commission of that crime."


shiat. That may actually work. The spirit of the law always loses when technicalities are in play. It sucks ass.


So that's why he faced the other way.  Plausible deniability.
 
2020-07-29 11:24:24 PM  
"In my defense, I was left unsupervised." I thought that t shirt was a joke.
 
2020-07-30 12:39:24 AM  
I don't think that's gonna to fly.
Multiple civilians clearly stated that George wasn't breathing, (and he did nothing) I think an off duty firefighter begged them to check his pulse.
This cop may not have committed the murder, but he's culpable for aiding in the crime.
He can fark right off
 
2020-07-30 1:02:06 AM  
"didn't know they were going to commit"

Maybe, but he sure as fark knew the crime was being committed while it happened.
 
2020-07-30 2:44:56 AM  
He turned his ears the other way as well. I use the same technique with my kids.
 
2020-07-30 3:13:46 AM  
"I had my eyes closed the entire time, while yelling 'I can't hear you LA LA LA LA LA LA!' "
 
2020-07-30 3:26:53 AM  

wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.


I agree with this in principle, and want to do so in fact, but those guys can typically avail themselves of something called qualified immunity.  The rest of us, in similar situations?  Not so much.
 
2020-07-30 6:22:04 AM  
Floyd cried out numerous times that he couldn't breathe over several minutes... numerous bystanders heard him... it's even on some of the videos

But you didn't realize anything was wrong?  Fark you!
 
2020-07-30 7:18:22 AM  

wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?


George Floyd told him what was happening over twenty minutes. He was standing right next to him for eight minutes and forty six seconds.

I'll eagerly await the Daily Stormer's next talking points.
 
2020-07-30 7:18:42 AM  

pkjun: wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

George Floyd told him what was happening over twenty minutes. He was standing right next to him for eight minutes and forty six seconds.

I'll eagerly await the Daily Stormer's next talking points.


Times, obvs
 
2020-07-30 7:34:27 AM  
Is he the one that was on something like his 3rd day on the job?  That one is the only one that I will give some slack to.  Maybe.
 
2020-07-30 7:37:08 AM  
surejan.jpg
 
2020-07-30 7:38:15 AM  
I'm not an evil pig!
I'm a grossly incompetent pig!

lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-30 7:39:55 AM  

cman: The lawyers, Robert Paule and Natalie Paule of Minneapolis, argue in their three-page motion that county prosecutors had failed to show that Thao knew that Chauvin and the other officers were going to commit a crime. They also argue that prosecutors failed to show that Thao's presence or actions at the scene were done "to further commission of that crime."



Officer, in this video we hear several people screaming at YOU "they're killing him" and "He's not breathing". How did you interpret those words?
 
2020-07-30 7:40:33 AM  
I'm always torn between hating defense attorneys and reminding myself that their job is to do everything possible to clear their client, because that's how our justice system works and it's necessary. It's awesome when the defendant is brought up on bogus charges or is clearly innocent. It's sickening when it's this guy.

That aside, I see what the lawyers are going for here. However, I don't know that they can get around the fact that he was informed multiple times by multiple people over the course of 8+ minutes that a man was being killed right next to him. That should serve to invalidate the idea that "I didn't know it was happening so I can't be held accountable."

I think next they move to the George Costanza defense.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-30 7:40:58 AM  

wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?


The angry and terrified crowd SCREAMING "You're killing him" and "He's not breathing" makes it pretty obvious he knew what was going on.

If I was on the jury that would be enough for me.
 
2020-07-30 7:42:06 AM  

OldRod: Floyd cried out numerous times that he couldn't breathe over several minutes... numerous bystanders heard him... it's even on some of the videos

But you didn't realize anything was wrong?  Fark you!


Members of the crowd were also screaming that he can't breath.
 
2020-07-30 7:44:35 AM  
I was just sitting in the car.
My buddies were in the bank.
 
2020-07-30 7:45:00 AM  
Negligence and inattention to duty are STILL grounds for charges, and your ass knows it.

You helped kill a man by doing nothing to stop it. For damn sure you'd want a paramedic that just sat there and watched a guy bleed out charged, especially if he said, "Hey, sorry dude. I just wasn't paying attention."

THIS is why people are marching, you ginormous bellend.
 
2020-07-30 7:45:05 AM  

Lambskincoat: "In my defense, I was left unsupervised." I thought that t shirt was a joke.



I have that shirt. It's no joke.

(and don't call me Shirley)
 
2020-07-30 7:47:36 AM  

SpectroBoy: wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

The angry and terrified crowd SCREAMING "You're killing him" and "He's not breathing" makes it pretty obvious he knew what was going on.

If I was on the jury that would be enough for me.


The joy of jury selection means that there will not be smart people sitting in those seats
 
2020-07-30 7:48:20 AM  

Redh8t: I don't think that's gonna to fly.
Multiple civilians clearly stated that George wasn't breathing, (and he did nothing) I think an off duty firefighter begged them to check his pulse.
This cop may not have committed the murder, but he's culpable for aiding in the crime.
He can fark right off


At that point wilful blindness may come into it. He was being presented evidence that something was wrong and chose not to become aware, and in doing so was aiding and abetting the crime.
 
2020-07-30 7:52:49 AM  

Ghost Roach: SpectroBoy: wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

The angry and terrified crowd SCREAMING "You're killing him" and "He's not breathing" makes it pretty obvious he knew what was going on.

If I was on the jury that would be enough for me.

The joy of jury selection means that there will not be smart people sitting in those seats


A jury - 12 people not smart enough to get out of Jury Duty.
 
2020-07-30 7:58:25 AM  

wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?


Yep, which is why his obvious lie should be discarded, given that we have video of the whole thing, including the crowd screaming about Floyd's inevitable murder. What you're seeing here is a defense meant to trigger qualified immunity.
 
2020-07-30 7:59:12 AM  
Is he going to resign and have his police powers permanently revoked by the feds?
 
2020-07-30 7:59:55 AM  
Asian buy is blaming the black guy and his friends?
 
2020-07-30 8:02:07 AM  

SpectroBoy: cman: The lawyers, Robert Paule and Natalie Paule of Minneapolis, argue in their three-page motion that county prosecutors had failed to show that Thao knew that Chauvin and the other officers were going to commit a crime. They also argue that prosecutors failed to show that Thao's presence or actions at the scene were done "to further commission of that crime."


Officer, in this video we hear several people screaming at YOU "they're killing him" and "He's not breathing". How did you interpret those words?


Lots of commotion...fog of war...

This piece of shiat will have something like that. He should serve significant jail time along with his accomplices. He actively prevented anyone from helping George Floyd.
 
2020-07-30 8:03:07 AM  
Seriously, both Thao and Lane are basically claiming that, because they didn't go in with the intent to kill Floyd, and that they didn't directly help Chauvin kill Floyd, and that their own training materials include using such restraint & submission techniques, that qualified immunity should shield them from prosecution.

When someone asks who's watching the watchers, the answer, apparently, isn't "the other watchers."
 
2020-07-30 8:09:56 AM  
Cool school never taught us that you needed air to breathe.  You can check the entire curriculum. If it were that important, they would have told us that in cop school.  Took an entire day to teach us survivors on how to point a gun
 
2020-07-30 8:10:35 AM  
Cop school.  I should hold autocorrect down for 8 minutes.
 
2020-07-30 8:15:33 AM  

cman: shiat. That may actually work. The spirit of the law always loses when technicalities are in play. It sucks ass.


You probably wouldn't want to live in a country where the spirit of the law mattered more than the words. "Judge let him off, boys. Go get a rope."
 
2020-07-30 8:18:10 AM  

Redh8t: Multiple civilians clearly stated that George wasn't breathing, (and he did nothing) I think an off duty firefighter begged them to check his pulse.
This cop may not have committed the murder, but he's culpable for aiding in the crime.


Is he more culpable than bystanders who filmed the murder and didn't try to help or check for a pulse? Is there a general duty to assist people, or a specific duty which applies to police officers?
 
2020-07-30 8:18:41 AM  
The lawyers, Robert Paule and Natalie Paule of Minneapolis, argue in their three-page motion that county prosecutors had failed to show that Thao knew that Chauvin and the other officers were going to commit a crime.

If only I had known about this defense earlier, I could have avoided so much trouble! There was this time a I drove a couple of my "friends" to a bank. They said they had to make a withdrawal, and I was glad to give them a lift. They went in and five minutes later I hear gunshots and screams. A couple of minutes later they come running out with a few bags full of cash, firing guns in the air, get the to car, and scream "DRIVE!" Well let me tell you that was pretty nerve-wracking, but I drove! 20 minutes and two spike strips later I'm badly beaten and lying on the ground in handcuffs. If I had known about the "I didn't know I was going to be the getaway driver" defense, my life would have taken a different path.
 
2020-07-30 8:27:28 AM  

Ghost Roach: SpectroBoy: wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

The angry and terrified crowd SCREAMING "You're killing him" and "He's not breathing" makes it pretty obvious he knew what was going on.

If I was on the jury that would be enough for me.

The joy of jury selection means that there will not be smart people sitting in those seats


Funny you mention that. I have been called multiple times and usually after I tell them that I am an engineer they kinda lose interest. I never get selected.
 
2020-07-30 8:28:32 AM  

dracos31: Ghost Roach: SpectroBoy: wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

The angry and terrified crowd SCREAMING "You're killing him" and "He's not breathing" makes it pretty obvious he knew what was going on.

If I was on the jury that would be enough for me.

The joy of jury selection means that there will not be smart people sitting in those seats

A jury - 12 people not smart enough to get out of Jury Duty.


I sorta love/hate this joke.

I sure hope if I am ever wrongly accused of a crime that some smart people with a sense of duty will serve.
 
2020-07-30 8:33:25 AM  
Looks like mistaken identity, not the evil white man we were looking for.

/lame attempt at a joke
 
2020-07-30 8:35:38 AM  

Redh8t: Multiple civilians clearly stated that George wasn't breathing, (and he did nothing) I think an off duty firefighter begged them to check his pulse.


If he kept guarding Chauvin and his gang of thugs after he knew Floyd was non-responsive and no longer registering a pulse, then I believe the requisite mens rea is there.

There is no plausible motive to continue kneeling on Floyd when he's non-responsive and no longer registering a pulse other than a specific intention to ensure that he's dead. So if Thou continued guarding after he knew Floyd was non-responsive and no longer registering a pulse, then he had the specific intention to aid and abet Floyd's murder.

So for Thou it's kind of a "what did he know and when did he know it" issue,.
 
2020-07-30 8:37:12 AM  

FormlessOne: wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

Yep, which is why his obvious lie should be discarded, given that we have video of the whole thing, including the crowd screaming about Floyd's inevitable murder. What you're seeing here is a defense meant to trigger qualified immunity.


This is where they should hammer on the "qualified" portion of that defense.

Is he qualified to assess the mortal danger posed by having three grown men apply full weight to the body of a fourth? Obviously not.If you can show a lack of qualifications, it should remove any thought of immunity.same should go for anyone suing over improper use of rubber bullets. If the manufacturer states they should not be directly aimed at head/center of mass, then it's on the police force in question for improper training and use/Not a lawyer
 
2020-07-30 8:37:51 AM  
So weird how cops holding crowds back from stopping their brothers in blue from murdering people don't know what other cops are doing. Almost like they pick dumb cops on purpose.
 
2020-07-30 8:38:38 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: Cop school.  I should hold autocorrect down for 8 minutes.


Actually ... it kinda works, in a perverse way
 
2020-07-30 8:39:37 AM  

orbister: Is he more culpable than bystanders who filmed the murder and didn't try to help or check for a pulse?


Sometimes I wonder if the questions asked on Fark are for real, or if they are some kind of learning algorithm for an AI.
 
2020-07-30 8:40:07 AM  

SpectroBoy: dracos31: Ghost Roach: SpectroBoy: wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

The angry and terrified crowd SCREAMING "You're killing him" and "He's not breathing" makes it pretty obvious he knew what was going on.

If I was on the jury that would be enough for me.

The joy of jury selection means that there will not be smart people sitting in those seats

A jury - 12 people not smart enough to get out of Jury Duty.

I sorta love/hate this joke.

I sure hope if I am ever wrongly accused of a crime that some smart people with a sense of duty will serve.


It happens occasionally. While in college I was working as a security guard (unarmed) for a hotel, and we were robbed at gunpoint one night. The robbers were caught basically across the street because a cop car was rolling through our parking lot at the time.
At trial, I testified as to the color and pattern of bandana one of them was wearing, and their lawyer started in on me about it.
"Weren't you scared?"
"Yes, he was pointing a gun at my face"
"So you were shaken."
"No."
"How can you be scared but not shaken?"
"Well, when I was serving as a USAF SP" At this point the entire jury sits up straighter "I was taught about the importance of details in a crime scene. He's hiding his face, so expects to leave live witnesses. The bandana may be found as evidence. I'm cooperating until they are gone and then I have information for investigators."
Lawyer's partner had already basically headdesked as soon as the jury reacted. Questioning lawyer pauses for a moment, "No further questions" and returns to his seat.

First rule of law. Don't ask any questions in court you don't already know the answer to.

All of them were found guilty.

Hopefully this cop faces an attentive jury too and finds himself in prison.
 
2020-07-30 8:41:01 AM  

SpectroBoy: dracos31: Ghost Roach: SpectroBoy: wejash: If the video shows he didn't see what Chauvin was doing, you either have yo show there was an actual premeditated conspiracy to kill (unlikely) or that he was told while it was happening.

Or maybe that he lied in furtherance of the crime after the fact.

If you don't have those, you don't have probable cause on him, that's probably true.

The law applies equally with no fear of, or favor towards, anyone.

Isn't that the whole point of this entire exercise?

The angry and terrified crowd SCREAMING "You're killing him" and "He's not breathing" makes it pretty obvious he knew what was going on.

If I was on the jury that would be enough for me.

The joy of jury selection means that there will not be smart people sitting in those seats

A jury - 12 people not smart enough to get out of Jury Duty.

I sorta love/hate this joke.

I sure hope if I am ever wrongly accused of a crime that some smart people with a sense of duty will serve.


But if I'm 'totally innocent' I want that too-dumb-to-get-out-of-it jury
 
2020-07-30 8:43:34 AM  

orbister: Redh8t: Multiple civilians clearly stated that George wasn't breathing, (and he did nothing) I think an off duty firefighter begged them to check his pulse.
This cop may not have committed the murder, but he's culpable for aiding in the crime.

Is he more culpable than bystanders who filmed the murder and didn't try to help or check for a pulse? Is there a general duty to assist people, or a specific duty which applies to police officers?


Yes!!

FTA - "Attorneys for Tou Thao, who was seen on a bystander's cellphone video keeping people at bay while Floyd was being held down,"

Given that he was helping to hold back the bystanders to keep them from checking or helping, I would say he was a lot more culpable. People were offering, wanting to help, and being held away. Oh, and you try going up to someone the police are holding down to help the person and watch what the police do to you (hint: they're holding you down and arresting you next, unless they feel threatened by your approach and just shoot you).
 
2020-07-30 8:44:25 AM  
Yknow, if youre a truck driver or an airline pilot and your negligence gets people killed.. the courts will totally let you off if you tell them you werent paying attention.

"Its not my fault all those people died when my plane crashed, i didnt see a thing, i was in the cockpit playing candy crush!"
 
2020-07-30 8:44:34 AM  
Was he really new to the job and 37 years old?
Yeesh, that seems old to be a rookie street cop.

I know Fark wants to crucify him, but I feel some sympathy for him if the above is the case.
Situations like that can be incredibly nerve wracking and complex.

I was in the military and saw some very tense, volatile situations develop and a lot of book training and common sense often flew out the window with newbs involved.
 
2020-07-30 8:48:38 AM  
His defense is horrific to me. Not because I think it is going to work. I don't know anything about law and the legal defense he is employing so I do not know if it can.

It is this defense in the context of all the blue line nonsense. Police chiefs defend and believe their own and police unions  protect them from consequences and not even the ones filmed for being brutal towards those protesting brutality were disciplined by their departments.

And now this man says oops I could not see so there....you did not expect me to take all the tormented screams of Floyd or the concerned comments of bystanders seriously, did you? Well...who the heck is policing the police? Who are they protecting and serving except themselves?
 
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