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(The Atlantic)   All that power-washing and scrubbing with Clorox wipes is probably as effective against COVID-19 as TSA confiscating water bottles and strip-searching your granny is against terrorists   (theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, New York City, Transmission, Evidence of absence, Hygiene, COVID-19 summer surge, U.S. studies, COVID-19 spreads, physical security  
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6035 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2020 at 5:29 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-29 9:33:58 PM  
 
2020-07-29 9:51:47 PM  
Whatever. I'm still going to wash down surfaces. I saw a 2 year old in Walmart gumming on a bag of marshmallows. His mother snatched them out of his hand and put them on the shelf.

I haven't bought marshmallows in years.
 
2020-07-29 10:28:51 PM  
From what I could find, the author is neither an empidemiologist or a virologist, so... yeah...
 
2020-07-30 5:35:01 AM  
Yeah, you can't stop me. Try to pull my clorox wipes out of my hands.
 
2020-07-30 5:46:26 AM  
What the hell subby?! You can't just come in here and tell all these doomers that they can worry just a little bit less.

I can't wait to see what kind of super disease will come from all the unnecessary use of antibacterial hand cleaner.
 
2020-07-30 5:52:18 AM  
I can't help but think this has a grain of truth to it; in a way similar to how many people, before this shiatshow, did NOT know how to properly wash their hands.

How much of that little spray-and-wipe act between transactions is actually the recommended way to disinfect?

The science updates seem to keep circling back to the things that have been consistently deemed most important:

masks
stay home
distance
WASH YOUR HANDS

Please don't hate on me. I am just waxing pensive.
 
2020-07-30 5:52:19 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-30 6:02:02 AM  
The writer appears to be drawing their info from a series of articles published in late May. A month later, the CDC changed that info & its site to indicate that:

1. It is possible to get it from touching surfaces or objects.
2. Not enough is known about how COVID-19 is transmitted yet to "determine conclusively" how easy it is to spread the virus from contact with surfaces.

From the CDC site:

The virus may be spread in other ways
It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about how this virus spreads.


The upshot is that we don't yet know if it's a huge waste of time, so if you've more than two glial cells to rub together, your best bet is to assume that it isn't, until we can prove conclusively that it is. The CDC says the same thing, by advising you to wash your hands and routinely clean & disinfect frequently touched surfaces.

Wash your damned hands. If a surface from outside your home - packages, people, pets - comes inside, ensure it's clean before it touches surfaces inside your home. Dedicate a small table or surface as your "quarantine area," put stuff from outside on it, then clean everything on it (and it) before it goes anywhere else in the house. It may seem paranoid, but the alternative is taking the risk that what we don't know may sicken or possibly kill you.
 
2020-07-30 6:05:09 AM  

Diagonal: From what I could find, the author is neither an empidemiologist or a virologist, so... yeah...


True, but he is quoting there from the CDC, who are.

There's some interesting stuff here about "superspreaders", situations where things went really huge, and it matches the CDC. One thing that's apparant is that just being in a group doesn't seem to cause much trouble. Like being in a cinema, or at a classical music concert. It's more events where people talk to each other or converse (like religious events and parties).

https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covi​d​-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countri​es-critical-patterns-and-lessons/
 
2020-07-30 6:07:46 AM  
It's the only way to be sure.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-30 6:08:47 AM  
I was hoping for a Halo outfit
 
2020-07-30 6:20:42 AM  
As a person in a school district where the superintendent told us yesterday that we would never be going to remote learning unless we were forced to, the call center story terrifies me.

I mean, we might close for a day when the morbidly obese, diabetic, cancer survivor, 67-year-old teacher dies, but we won't be closing for the virus.
 
2020-07-30 6:25:31 AM  

AngryTeacher: As a person in a school district where the superintendent told us yesterday that we would never be going to remote learning unless we were forced to, the call center story terrifies me.

I mean, we might close for a day when the morbidly obese, diabetic, cancer survivor, 67-year-old teacher dies, but we won't be closing for the virus.


I don't envy your position.
I hope you can stay safe through the pants-on-head stupid that seems to be infiltrating things there.
 
2020-07-30 6:25:49 AM  
The frustrating part of that article is that it misses the farking point. All of this "hygiene theater" is being presented because, quite simply, Americans can't or won't personally engage in the hygiene necessary to deal with this situation.

The thing is, the author's not wrong. He's just yelling about the wrong problem. Yes, it's incredibly inconvenient that NYC subways are disinfected in the wee hours. Yes, it's incredibly wasteful to put on hygiene theater, scrubbing surfaces for a disease that's largely airborne.

The simple fact is that this is all being done to convince people to come back to work, to go to stores, to make and spend money. It's being done because a third of us refuse to do even the basics - wash our hands, wear our masks, stay the fark away from each other - so to convince us to keep money flowing, they have to do something to reassure us.

Yes, it's dumb in many ways - but, they're doing it because we're belligerently stupid. We pick fights and threaten lives when we're told to wear a mask. We cough on babies when confronted in grocery stores. We show guns to teens trying to serve ice cream. The President of the farking United States has simultaneously said to both wear and eschew masks. Congresspeople had to be ordered to do so by their majority leaders, after enough of them turned up at work riddled with COVID-19, determined to give it to others in a bizarre show of ideological purity.

And that's the problem. You're seeing right-wing morons desperate to be seen doing something, and as this both transfers public money to private hands & presents a "hygiene theater" that'll lure us out of our homes to transfer our money to public & private hands, that's what they're doing. They're not spending that money to ensure that anyone caught without a mask in public either gets & wears a freely-offered mask by a LEO, or gets & enjoys a freely-written citation by a LEO. They're not spending that money on a public campaign that says "Masks are mandatory, not political." They're not advising the Trump administration to back gubernatorial efforts to make masks mandatory in public.

The author doesn't make his point well, to be sure, because he keeps drifting back to "it's expensive & inconvenient to disinfect subway trains," as though he's writing this because he's personally inconvenienced. Emphasizing what we should be doing, rather than criticizing what we shouldn't be doing, seems like a better way of getting the "wear your mask everywhere, wash your hands, stay away from each other in public, and stop acting like assholes about all of that" point across.
 
2020-07-30 6:38:47 AM  

FormlessOne: The frustrating part of that article is that it misses the farking point. All of this "hygiene theater" is being presented because, quite simply, Americans can't or won't personally engage in the hygiene necessary to deal with this situation.

The thing is, the author's not wrong. He's just yelling about the wrong problem. Yes, it's incredibly inconvenient that NYC subways are disinfected in the wee hours. Yes, it's incredibly wasteful to put on hygiene theater, scrubbing surfaces for a disease that's largely airborne.

The simple fact is that this is all being done to convince people to come back to work, to go to stores, to make and spend money. It's being done because a third of us refuse to do even the basics - wash our hands, wear our masks, stay the fark away from each other - so to convince us to keep money flowing, they have to do something to reassure us.

Yes, it's dumb in many ways - but, they're doing it because we're belligerently stupid. We pick fights and threaten lives when we're told to wear a mask. We cough on babies when confronted in grocery stores. We show guns to teens trying to serve ice cream. The President of the farking United States has simultaneously said to both wear and eschew masks. Congresspeople had to be ordered to do so by their majority leaders, after enough of them turned up at work riddled with COVID-19, determined to give it to others in a bizarre show of ideological purity.

And that's the problem. You're seeing right-wing morons desperate to be seen doing something, and as this both transfers public money to private hands & presents a "hygiene theater" that'll lure us out of our homes to transfer our money to public & private hands, that's what they're doing. They're not spending that money to ensure that anyone caught without a mask in public either gets & wears a freely-offered mask by a LEO, or gets & enjoys a freely-written citation by a LEO. They're not spending that money on a public campaign that says "Masks are mandatory, not political." They're not advising the Trump administration to back gubernatorial efforts to make masks mandatory in public.

The author doesn't make his point well, to be sure, because he keeps drifting back to "it's expensive & inconvenient to disinfect subway trains," as though he's writing this because he's personally inconvenienced. Emphasizing what we should be doing, rather than criticizing what we shouldn't be doing, seems like a better way of getting the "wear your mask everywhere, wash your hands, stay away from each other in public, and stop acting like assholes about all of that" point across.


Well said.
 
2020-07-30 6:41:24 AM  
Just a reminder - only 70% of Americans (92% of Democrats, 68% of Republicans) agree that people should always wear masks in public.

That's the problem. The author's seeing an ineffectual response to that problem, and biatching about the response instead of the problem.
 
2020-07-30 6:53:01 AM  

LaChanz: What the hell subby?! You can't just come in here and tell all these doomers that they can worry just a little bit less.

I can't wait to see what kind of super disease will come from all the unnecessary use of antibacterial hand cleaner.


I can tell you haven't lost someone close to you from COVID-19.  It's not even the suffering, the low quality test kits that give false negatives most of the time.  It's the fact that you can't have a funeral or in person memorial service.  They go right into the crematorium and are delivered as ashes in a plain container.
Businesses with high volume traffic like grocery stores should clean door handles and rest rooms very frequently (or close the rest rooms), ensure customers stay 6' apart at all times, and protect their employees and customers by making free hand/cart sanitizer available.
I don't think anything I have mentioned is somehow undermining this country or flagrantly pseudoscientific.
You should however familiarize yourself with the nonsense that the President is promoting, which includes his denial that he has any responsibility, anti-mask stance, false claims that hydroxychloroquine is effective, and more recently that there are lizard people undermining the country and that pharmaceuticals contain alien DNA.  So I think we need to deal with these falsehoods first and keep cleaning door knobs.
 
2020-07-30 6:54:49 AM  
Don't listen to some stupid Atlantic staff writer and wash your hands.
 
2020-07-30 7:02:26 AM  
Must be pretty effective because my grandma hasn't brought down any planes yet.


/Yet
 
2020-07-30 7:03:12 AM  
The problem is people focusing on surface transfer - still not proven after many months, OVER airborne transfer - proven the main vector in multiple studies. See Plague Vector Gohmert blaming masks for his contracting the virus, because they make you touch your face.

Airborne precautions must take first priority. The particles that people spray out is how the damn virus gets on surfaces in the first place! Wipes and soap are cheaper and easier than getting everyone to mask up and updating whatever air circulation system you have. So a lot of people scrub and call it good enough, or take so much time and energy scrubbing that they don't do anything else.

Mask first! THEN handwashing and wipes. NEVER handwashing and wipes only!
 
2020-07-30 7:16:31 AM  
Fear is man's best friend. People who claim to oppose fear are idiots, assholes - and cowards.
If you want to spot the lowest shiathead in any crowd, look for the jackass who brays that he's not subject to fear.
 
2020-07-30 7:16:32 AM  

DarnoKonrad: Don't listen to some stupid Atlantic staff writer and wash your hands.


FTFA: The scientists I spoke with emphasized that people should still wash their hands, avoid touching their face when they've recently been in public areas, and even use gloves in certain high-contact jobs.

I know we don't RTFA here, but the stupid Atlantic staff writer said to wash your hands, so do you want to do that or not?

The upswing of this article is not "don't wash your hands." It's that all the bleach in the world isn't going to make reopening safe. Washing your hands will not protect you from the virus cloud left by an unmasked person who sneezed or spoke aloud in whatever indoor area before you got there. Please continue to wash your hands, but don't listen to your stupid Governor when they say reopening schools or salons or whatever is perfectly fine because they'll clean them.

Airborne precautions work. We still don't have any conclusive data on washing your hands. So we can't just take surface transfer precautions and call it a day.
 
2020-07-30 7:21:04 AM  
Emanuel Goldman, a microbiology professor at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, told me.


You mean the same Rutgers where the head of the English department said that they are going to allow whatever grammar a student uses in the work they turn in because grammar rules are stupid and racist? That's a high quality school, right there.
 
2020-07-30 7:21:19 AM  
Maybe if the NIH were to publish a PSA with the recommendation that people should eat regularly, it will result in the GOP collectively starving themselves to death...   Well, a man can dream, can't he?

For myself, I wash my hands regularly because I'm not a disgusting throwback with a finger up my arse.  I wear a mask too.  As the anti-bathing grows, I'll need to be adding some kind of fragrance to the mask to cover up the nauseating odor of testosterone, bile and frustration.
 
2020-07-30 7:24:59 AM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: I know we don't RTFA here


Seldom have I seen a comment section prove that more effectively than this one.
Here at Fark dot Com we are well aware of security theater. We've had how many greenlights about it these last 18 gorram years? Yet here is an article making the exact same argument, even using the TSA as an analogy, and Farkers don't appear to understand.
Stop wasting your time doing the things that don't work, and start doing the things that do. Stop bleaching your Big Mac, and start ordering it DoorDash. Stop wiping the shopping cart, and start ordering pickup. Stop sanitizing the salt shakers, and start closing the Applebee's. And most importantly, whatever you do, don't pretend sanitizing the desks means you can send kids back to school.
 
2020-07-30 7:35:49 AM  

LaChanz: What the hell subby?! You can't just come in here and tell all these doomers that they can worry just a little bit less.


You see, we are supposed to be all about science. That lasts until science tells us something we don't want to hear. Then we just ignore it.

/I guess that is a step up from believing in the invisible sky god and then ignoring its commandments.

// It doesn't spread outdoors, either. Also very uncommon.
 
2020-07-30 7:36:28 AM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: The upswing of this article is not "don't wash your hands." It's that all the bleach in the world isn't going to make reopening safe.


He's not addressing an actual issue.  Cleaning theater isn't a thing.  Burying the lead, 'wash your hands,' in a mire of click bait nonsense that directly contradicts the CDC is the problem.


But you keep defending it.
 
2020-07-30 7:38:46 AM  

LaChanz: What the hell subby?! You can't just come in here and tell all these doomers that they can worry just a little bit less.

I can't wait to see what kind of super disease will come from all the unnecessary use of antibacterial hand cleaner.


This guy is a badass.
 
2020-07-30 7:40:45 AM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: The problem is people focusing on surface transfer


prove it motherfarker.  Demonstrate this is what people 'focus on'  Whatever the fark that means. Seems to me, what they're actually doing is focusing on things they can control.  Like keeping their hands and surfaces clean and wearing a mask where appropriate.   Which is exactly what experts have been advocating since this mess started.

But I'm not some piece of shiat staff writer that has to invent something to write about to keep my editor happy.
 
2020-07-30 7:47:47 AM  
This is a no brainer.
Example: grocery stores.
People are handling and touching common surfaces and products all day long, and everyone has to go to the store every week or two without fail so literally all of humanity is filtering through these places. There has been almost transmission vectors related to grocery stores.
 
2020-07-30 7:49:12 AM  
Has anybody seen Clorox Wipes for sale in any quantity?

I did manage to grab a couple small containers of wipes at Walmart one day, and some "degreasing" wipes (more like industrial wipes) at Home Depot, but otherwise, I haven't seen them in stock anywhere.

At least you can buy Toilet Paper these days.
 
2020-07-30 7:49:46 AM  
The people complaining about the article should try reading past the first paragraph. Oh wait, this is FARK.

FTFA:

Finally, and most important, hygiene theater builds a false sense of security, which can ironically lead to more infections. Many bars, indoor restaurants, and gyms, where patrons are huffing and puffing one another's stale air, shouldn't be open at all. They should be shut down and bailed out by the government until the pandemic is under control. No amount of soap and bleach changes this calculation.

and

New York City's decision to spend lavishly on power scrubbing its subways shows how absurd hygiene theater can be, in practice. As the city's transit authority considers reduced service and layoffs to offset declines in ticket revenue, it is on pace to spend more than $100 million this year on new cleaning practices and disinfectants. Money that could be spent on distributing masks, or on PSA campaigns about distancing, or actual subway service, is being poured into antiseptic experiments that might be entirely unnecessary. Worst of all, these cleaning sessions shut down trains for hours in the early morning, hurting countless late-night workers and early-morning commuters.

So for the people who need bullets because they don't read:

-Believing that heavy cleaning makes public spaces safer builds a false sense of security, which likely help justify opening business too early, which has led to the current spike in infections.

-The money spent on pointless cleaning could be better used for things like giving out free PPE which does prevent the spread of COVID-19.
 
2020-07-30 7:57:42 AM  

Benjimin_Dover: Emanuel Goldman, a microbiology professor at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, told me.


You mean the same Rutgers where the head of the English department said that they are going to allow whatever grammar a student uses in the work they turn in because grammar rules are stupid and racist? That's a high quality school, right there.


Wait, Emanuel Goldman?

Why does that sound vaguely famili...

Oh. My. God. The one voice of reason...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-30 8:00:52 AM  

LesserEvil: Has anybody seen Clorox Wipes for sale in any quantity?

I did manage to grab a couple small containers of wipes at Walmart one day, and some "degreasing" wipes (more like industrial wipes) at Home Depot, but otherwise, I haven't seen them in stock anywhere.

At least you can buy Toilet Paper these days.


We call clorox wipes rags and cheap slightly dilute bleach around here.
 
2020-07-30 8:01:47 AM  

LesserEvil: Has anybody seen Clorox Wipes for sale in any quantity?

I did manage to grab a couple small containers of wipes at Walmart one day, and some "degreasing" wipes (more like industrial wipes) at Home Depot, but otherwise, I haven't seen them in stock anywhere.

At least you can buy Toilet Paper these days.


There have been major capacity issues making them, and I recall reading in an article back in May that they didn't expect to catch up to demand until at least July.
 
2020-07-30 8:02:20 AM  

MegaLib: I was hoping for a Halo outfit


Not sure how it would help but ok.
nomadicboys.comView Full Size

You even get wings to go along with your halo.
 
2020-07-30 8:02:50 AM  

LesserEvil: Has anybody seen Clorox Wipes for sale in any quantity?

I did manage to grab a couple small containers of wipes at Walmart one day, and some "degreasing" wipes (more like industrial wipes) at Home Depot, but otherwise, I haven't seen them in stock anywhere.

At least you can buy Toilet Paper these days.


Paper towels or household cleaning cloths in a bucket with 3.5% bleach:

6:1 water:bleach strong cleaning
9:1 water:bleach weaker (ok for skin)
 
2020-07-30 8:05:19 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Whatever. I'm still going to wash down surfaces. I saw a 2 year old in Walmart gumming on a bag of marshmallows. His mother snatched them out of his hand and put them on the shelf.

I haven't bought marshmallows in years.


Several years ago I was in a restaurant where some 2-3 y/o kid was licking the tops of the salt and pepper shakers.  Mom and dad?  "Oh look how cute he is".

I don't use salt or pepper shakers in restaurants anymore.
 
2020-07-30 8:13:25 AM  
I've read two articles with this same premise now.  That it's primarily spread through airborne respiratory means.  There's also some articles about virus concentrations determining severity of symptoms.

Sure, I believe that.  However, what neither of the articles would do, is to commit to a specific percentage.  What percent is spread in only an airborne manner. and what percentage is spread in a sneeze/cough to surface?  Is it 95% to 5%?  Because that would be a ratio that still justifies my cleaning protocol?  99% to 1%?  Again, for me, that's still justification for cleaning protocols, and my habit of not touching my face even the slightest little bit when I'm out in public.

The virus is tiny.  I can't see it, I can't judge if that bag of Cheetos I just bought was breathed on thirty minutes ago, by a maskless idiot who passed within three feet of it. (probably safe)  or if that take out container was touched three minutes ago, by a maskless idiot who just coughed into their hand (maybe safe?) or if that glass of lemonade was sneezed directly upon by a maskless idiot 30 seconds before (not safe).

I'm not going to risk the health of myself and my family based on a vague irresponsible article.  It will be of no comfort to me if I get sick based on a 50% chance, or if I get sick based on a 1% chance.  I'll still end up unnecessarily sick when just a bit of cleaning, and allowing a bit of time to pass  reduces the spread of the virus even more.

The comparison with the TSA was a terrible fear mongering analogy written by a random person without a statistics background based on their best (not very good) interpretation of an actual study.
 
2020-07-30 8:20:32 AM  
Fauci says wash your ( insert thing here ).  I mean you are either getting rid of it or making a nice clean home for it to land on?
 
2020-07-30 8:24:53 AM  
Both my adult kids work in retail. Until a few weeks ago, employees were not permitted masks because it offended some customers. Now, masks are mandatory and provided to the employees, but many customers still refuse to wear them. Meanwhile, our 20 year old daughter has washed her hands until they are scaly and cracked. She is well on her way to a fungal infection. At the same time, her 21 year old brother can't keep his hands off his face.  Since childhood, he has picked at his lips when stressed. As an adult, he stops just before drawing actual blood which is an improvement, but still means he is continually introducing germs to his face.
 
2020-07-30 8:26:07 AM  
This author of an idiot.  Covid-19-a hormonal disregulation syndrome-is inoculum dosage driven.  The less ambient SARS-CoV-2, the lower the environmental dose available.  This is an incredibly robust enveloped virus that spreads efficiently as an aerosol but has also been observed spreading through surface contamination. What an asshole.
 
2020-07-30 8:26:33 AM  
I see a lot of studies about finding the Coronavirus in the air, on surfaces, but not many studies on the viabiliy of infection from the virus on surfaces.

as long as I am careful not to touch my face with uncleaned hands, i have to assume i am fine
 
2020-07-30 8:31:49 AM  
Actually is transmitted through "droplets" and NOT airborne - something like a mist I suppose. For myself, I just lookup facts written by scientists of the WHO rather than some scared journalists.  Go the link if you want the bibliography and citations.

updated July 2020:
https://www.who.int/news-room/comment​a​ries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-v​irus-causing-covid-19-implications-for​-ipc-precaution-recommendations

Modes of transmission of the COVID-19 virus
Respiratory infections can be transmitted through droplets of different sizes: when the droplet particles are >5-10 μm in diameter they are referred to as respiratory droplets, and when then are <5μm in diameter, they are referred to as droplet nuclei. According to current evidence, COVID-19 virus is primarily transmitted between people through respiratory droplets and contact routes.In an analysis of 75,465 COVID-19 cases in China, airborne transmission was not reported.

Droplet transmission occurs when a person is in in close contact (within 1 m) with someone who has respiratory symptoms (e.g., coughing or sneezing) and is therefore at risk of having his/her mucosae (mouth and nose) or conjunctiva (eyes) exposed to potentially infective respiratory droplets. Transmission may also occur through fomites in the immediate environment around the infected person. Therefore, transmission of the COVID-19 virus can occur by direct contact with infected people and indirect contact with surfaces in the immediate environment or with objects used on the infected person (e.g., stethoscope or thermometer).

Airborne transmission is different from droplet transmission as it refers to the presence of microbes within droplet nuclei, which are generally considered to be particles <5μm in diameter, can remain in the air for long periods of time and be transmitted to others over distances greater than 1 m.

&TLDR; 'Wear a mask, keep your filthy bodies clean and wash your hands regularly, you degenerate morons.'  (Also don't defecate in your bed.)
 
2020-07-30 8:36:37 AM  

Rapmaster2000: LaChanz: What the hell subby?! You can't just come in here and tell all these doomers that they can worry just a little bit less.

I can't wait to see what kind of super disease will come from all the unnecessary use of antibacterial hand cleaner.

This guy is a badass.


This guy is a moran.
 
2020-07-30 8:38:45 AM  

thornhill: The people complaining about the article should try reading past the first paragraph. Oh wait, this is FARK.

FTFA:

Finally, and most important, hygiene theater builds a false sense of security, which can ironically lead to more infections. Many bars, indoor restaurants, and gyms, where patrons are huffing and puffing one another's stale air, shouldn't be open at all. They should be shut down and bailed out by the government until the pandemic is under control. No amount of soap and bleach changes this calculation.

and

New York City's decision to spend lavishly on power scrubbing its subways shows how absurd hygiene theater can be, in practice. As the city's transit authority considers reduced service and layoffs to offset declines in ticket revenue, it is on pace to spend more than $100 million this year on new cleaning practices and disinfectants. Money that could be spent on distributing masks, or on PSA campaigns about distancing, or actual subway service, is being poured into antiseptic experiments that might be entirely unnecessary. Worst of all, these cleaning sessions shut down trains for hours in the early morning, hurting countless late-night workers and early-morning commuters.

So for the people who need bullets because they don't read:

-Believing that heavy cleaning makes public spaces safer builds a false sense of security, which likely help justify opening business too early, which has led to the current spike in infections.

-The money spent on pointless cleaning could be better used for things like giving out free PPE which does prevent the spread of COVID-19.


I'm half with you.  The article mixed in some valid points, but also mixed in some invalid points.  People have a tendency to cherry pick the bits and pieces of things that fit their world view.  They'll read this story, and come away with "cleaning bad, not cleaning good."  It's part of the "science news cycle."  The author is mixing in their own interpretation of a study that they read, and barely understood.

Oblig:
wired.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-30 8:39:40 AM  

LaChanz: Rapmaster2000: LaChanz: What the hell subby?! You can't just come in here and tell all these doomers that they can worry just a little bit less.

I can't wait to see what kind of super disease will come from all the unnecessary use of antibacterial hand cleaner.

This guy is a badass.

This guy is a moran.


I give you a compliment and you criticize me?  This is why you don't have any friends.
 
2020-07-30 8:42:54 AM  

Rapmaster2000: LaChanz: Rapmaster2000: LaChanz: What the hell subby?! You can't just come in here and tell all these doomers that they can worry just a little bit less.

I can't wait to see what kind of super disease will come from all the unnecessary use of antibacterial hand cleaner.

This guy is a badass.

This guy is a moran.

I give you a compliment and you criticize me?  This is why you don't have any friends.


Yup, that's what it was. Just like the last doomer thread.

/moran.
 
2020-07-30 8:43:59 AM  
As long as we're talking about evidence-based precautions, I heard Dr. Daniel Griffin on the This Week in Virology podcast say that there's never been a single confirmed case of transmission from a child to a teacher.
 
2020-07-30 8:48:21 AM  
I think its safe to say that there is no truth to 'it isn't spread on surfaces' and every truth to the question 'how well is it spread on surfaces'. To that extent, cleaning surfaces will offer a reduction in spread.

Think about it: If it can spread when you cough, it'll spread when you cough into your hand and touch a doorknob then the next person touches said doorknob and picks their nose. The question then becomes how long does it last on a given surface, not if it'll spread from surfaces.

Viruses are not lightbulbs. They don't just instantly turn off given a specific set of circumstances. A virus doesn't magically deactivate when its 6 feet past you. That number is designed to reduce transmission rates by 95% (note: This isn't a 5% transmission rate, this is 5% of the transmission rate of being close to someone). Viruses don't just instantly turn off when they touch a surface--they take time to die.

This whole pandemic has exposed how little people know about how the world works.

/Didn't read the article.
 
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