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(AP News)   Modena's virus vaccine is being put to the final test in half of thousands of volunteers. Good luck   (apnews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Associated Press, Vaccination, Vaccine, United States, Immune system, vaccine study, needed proof, test shots  
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1643 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jul 2020 at 8:50 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-27 7:55:55 AM  
Moderna?

Not sure I'd trust a company who's first results were cherry picked blue sky stats done solely to shoot up the stock price.

For-profit pandemic.
 
2020-07-27 8:41:08 AM  
Isn't Moderna the company with ties to the Trump admin? If that is the case, I honestly don't think I would take a vaccine from them.
 
2020-07-27 8:46:22 AM  
If they're doing such a bang-up job why did Dump announce during his last 'Rona Airing of Grievances that the government placed a 100,000,000 dose vaccine order with Pfizer, and an option to buy 500mm more doses?
 
2020-07-27 8:48:19 AM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: Moderna?

Not sure I'd trust a company who's first results were cherry picked blue sky stats done solely to shoot up the stock price.

For-profit pandemic.


They're testing it on a pool of 30,000 people, so it's going to be hard to cherry pick results.
 
2020-07-27 8:50:04 AM  

markie_farkie: If they're doing such a bang-up job why did Dump announce during his last 'Rona Airing of Grievances that the government placed a 100,000,000 dose vaccine order with Pfizer, and an option to buy 500mm more doses?


Because if this doesn't work, we want back up options.
 
2020-07-27 8:52:48 AM  
The top half or the bottom half?
 
2020-07-27 8:55:33 AM  

markie_farkie: If they're doing such a bang-up job why did Dump announce during his last 'Rona Airing of Grievances that the government placed a 100,000,000 dose vaccine order with Pfizer, and an option to buy 500mm more doses?


The government gave Moderna $480 million to start producing the vaccine so there will be plenty to go around if it works.
 
2020-07-27 8:57:24 AM  
I really hope that this goes well, but since it's 2020 it'll probably just lead to zombies.
 
2020-07-27 8:57:43 AM  

markie_farkie: If they're doing such a bang-up job why did Dump announce during his last 'Rona Airing of Grievances that the government placed a 100,000,000 dose vaccine order with Pfizer, and an option to buy 500mm more doses?


Because as much as I hate Trump, it is in fact intelligent to cover multiple bases.
 
2020-07-27 8:58:51 AM  
scientists will closely track which group experiences more infections as they go about their daily routines, especially in areas where the virus still is spreading unchecked.

Here's your shot, now go be irresponsible and lets see what happens.
 
2020-07-27 9:00:00 AM  

markie_farkie: If they're doing such a bang-up job why did Dump announce during his last 'Rona Airing of Grievances that the government placed a 100,000,000 dose vaccine order with Pfizer, and an option to buy 500mm more doses?


If I had to guess, because someone in the Trump circle (Jr., I'M ERIC, Kush, Trump himself) has a shiatload of Pfizer stock.
 
2020-07-27 9:03:19 AM  
Modena is many things, but not a pharmaceutical company.  Moderna is the drugs.
 
2020-07-27 9:04:07 AM  

SecondaryControl: Modena is many things, but not a pharmaceutical company.  Moderna is the drugs.


Yeah; when I read the headline I assumed it had to do with balsamic vinegar.
 
2020-07-27 9:09:59 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-27 9:11:08 AM  
Moderna manipulates stock price again.  Film at 11.
 
2020-07-27 9:14:42 AM  

CordycepsInYourBrain: markie_farkie: If they're doing such a bang-up job why did Dump announce during his last 'Rona Airing of Grievances that the government placed a 100,000,000 dose vaccine order with Pfizer, and an option to buy 500mm more doses?

The government gave Moderna $480 million to start producing the vaccine so there will be plenty to go around if it works.


Dr. Anthony Fauci stated months ago that we should pay to manufacture the most promising candidates as soon as they pass Phase 2 trials, because the time savings if they pass Phase 3 would be huge.

So, there's a reason this makes sense - it's not a Trump idea.
 
2020-07-27 9:24:08 AM  

Arachnophobe: Isn't Moderna the company with ties to the Trump admin? If that is the case, I honestly don't think I would take a vaccine from them.


While I do agree with you, the Moderna vaccine is an mRNA vaccine so overall there are less places for complications to occur.  Not saying the risks are zero, but it is a very interesting and promising methodology for future vaccines.  I genuinely hope it works with minimal complications as it avoids all of the egg allergy complications (like with influenza vaccines) or other potential issues with other vaccine platforms.
 
2020-07-27 9:26:39 AM  
Kind of stressed I didn't  get called to be a part of this test.  Oddly, they seem to be targetting frontline workers.
 
2020-07-27 9:30:24 AM  

4th Horseman: I really hope that this goes well, but since it's 2020 it'll probably just lead to zombies.


And not those slow shambling ones either. They're all going to run like track stars.
 
2020-07-27 9:30:50 AM  
Some vaccines have produced antibody responses, some T-cell responses, some both.  I suspect the "final" vaccine will combine two or more candidates.
 
2020-07-27 9:36:08 AM  

thornhill: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: Moderna?

Not sure I'd trust a company who's first results were cherry picked blue sky stats done solely to shoot up the stock price.

For-profit pandemic.

They're testing it on a pool of 30,000 people, so it's going to be hard to cherry pick results.


This. I can't speak to their business practices, but for the trial to make it to phase-3 they have to have shown efficacy already. Pharma isn't like supplements or used car sales... you cant just go around claiming it works because "reasons". For them to go to Phase 3 is a huge financial risk by itself... even with the government contract. And while there is money that will be made, it's not going to be what you think it is... they will settle for very low prices. They aren't that far ahead of competing vaccine candidates.  Besides... 7B people in the world, even if only 25% of them get the vaccine, at probably $20 average each, you're talking $35B annually.

/I could be wrong... I don't work in the pharma industry... just had an ex wife who does
 
2020-07-27 9:39:02 AM  

huntercr: thornhill: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: Moderna?

Not sure I'd trust a company who's first results were cherry picked blue sky stats done solely to shoot up the stock price.

For-profit pandemic.

They're testing it on a pool of 30,000 people, so it's going to be hard to cherry pick results.

This. I can't speak to their business practices, but for the trial to make it to phase-3 they have to have shown efficacy already. Pharma isn't like supplements or used car sales... you cant just go around claiming it works because "reasons". For them to go to Phase 3 is a huge financial risk by itself... even with the government contract. And while there is money that will be made, it's not going to be what you think it is... they will settle for very low prices. They aren't that far ahead of competing vaccine candidates.  Besides... 7B people in the world, even if only 25% of them get the vaccine, at probably $20 average each, you're talking $35B annually.

/I could be wrong... I don't work in the pharma industry... just had an ex wife who does


No, you are correct.  Additionally this isn't some pie in the sky vaccine that a small amount of people will get in extreme circumstances.  Like you said, everyone on the planet is likely to receive it at some point.  If it doesn't work its going to be inescapably obvious and then you are sued into oblivion by all sorts of very powerful entities.  Corporate malfeasance will not pay off in this case.

/of course, that's a logical frame of mind.  Sometimes people are anything but...
 
2020-07-27 9:41:57 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: CordycepsInYourBrain: markie_farkie: If they're doing such a bang-up job why did Dump announce during his last 'Rona Airing of Grievances that the government placed a 100,000,000 dose vaccine order with Pfizer, and an option to buy 500mm more doses?

The government gave Moderna $480 million to start producing the vaccine so there will be plenty to go around if it works.

Dr. Anthony Fauci stated months ago that we should pay to manufacture the most promising candidates as soon as they pass Phase 2 trials, because the time savings if they pass Phase 3 would be huge.

So, there's a reason this makes sense - it's not a Trump idea.


Yeah, I forgot a word in my post. They are using the money to start production now.

Trump already bored with Warp Speed, his move to take credit for Fauci's work.
 
2020-07-27 9:45:26 AM  
Just a reminder - it will take months to conclude this test. Then, months to review the results. Then, months to approve the vaccine. Finally, months more to make enough to manufacture enough to inoculate at least a third of the population.

Progress is always good news, but the simple fact of the matter is that we won't have a safe, tested vaccine available until mid-2021 at the earliest, and more likely much later than that.
 
2020-07-27 9:47:40 AM  
Even the article indicates that they won't have data until "toward the end of the year." That's the conclusion of the test. The rest of the process - review, approval, manufacture - starts at that point.

Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Practice social distancing when you have to be out. Practice sterile procedure when you have to bring stuff in. Assume everything coming into your house is contaminated; assume everyone around you is a potential spreader, including yourself.
 
2020-07-27 9:49:08 AM  
Is the Astra Zeneca study?
 
2020-07-27 10:00:24 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Arachnophobe: Isn't Moderna the company with ties to the Trump admin? If that is the case, I honestly don't think I would take a vaccine from them.

While I do agree with you, the Moderna vaccine is an mRNA vaccine so overall there are less places for complications to occur.  Not saying the risks are zero, but it is a very interesting and promising methodology for future vaccines.  I genuinely hope it works with minimal complications as it avoids all of the egg allergy complications (like with influenza vaccines) or other potential issues with other vaccine platforms.


I admit, it's probably my paranoid/conspiracy theorist side coming out, but everything about the Trump admin response to this pandemic has seemed deliberately designed to spread it as much as possible. But I'm not so far gone that I won't listen to actual scientists.
 
2020-07-27 10:21:57 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: huntercr: thornhill: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: Moderna?

Not sure I'd trust a company who's first results were cherry picked blue sky stats done solely to shoot up the stock price.

For-profit pandemic.

They're testing it on a pool of 30,000 people, so it's going to be hard to cherry pick results.

This. I can't speak to their business practices, but for the trial to make it to phase-3 they have to have shown efficacy already. Pharma isn't like supplements or used car sales... you cant just go around claiming it works because "reasons". For them to go to Phase 3 is a huge financial risk by itself... even with the government contract. And while there is money that will be made, it's not going to be what you think it is... they will settle for very low prices. They aren't that far ahead of competing vaccine candidates.  Besides... 7B people in the world, even if only 25% of them get the vaccine, at probably $20 average each, you're talking $35B annually.

/I could be wrong... I don't work in the pharma industry... just had an ex wife who does

No, you are correct.  Additionally this isn't some pie in the sky vaccine that a small amount of people will get in extreme circumstances.  Like you said, everyone on the planet is likely to receive it at some point.  If it doesn't work its going to be inescapably obvious and then you are sued into oblivion by all sorts of very powerful entities.  Corporate malfeasance will not pay off in this case.

/of course, that's a logical frame of mind.  Sometimes people are anything but...


Mitch McConnell laughs at your naivete.
 
2020-07-27 10:37:23 AM  
Modena, that's where my car was made. Not sure how well they do with drugs.
 
2020-07-27 10:52:33 AM  
Good lord, I despise Trump and everything he stands for, but you guys are letting your massive hate boners conjure up absurd conspiracies.

At any rate, there are several vaccine candidates, so if this doesn't work, move on to the next one.
 
2020-07-27 11:03:42 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-27 11:22:59 AM  

markie_farkie: If they're doing such a bang-up job why did Dump announce during his last 'Rona Airing of Grievances that the government placed a 100,000,000 dose vaccine order with Pfizer, and an option to buy 500mm more doses?


Was it a contracted order or conditional promise? Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine still has not passed trials either.
 
2020-07-27 11:31:06 AM  
Then to find. Making the vaccine was the easy part. Getting idiots to take it will be the challenge.
 
2020-07-27 11:31:39 AM  
And if it's ineffective, the headline should be "Modena vaccine leaves recipients funky, cold"
 
2020-07-27 11:32:40 AM  

stuffy: Then to find. Making the vaccine was the easy part. Getting idiots to take it will be the challenge.


Blow guns and tranq rifles might be the way to go. Seriously.
 
2020-07-27 11:36:31 AM  
This is IMHO, the least likely to be effective as Moderna has never brought a vaccine to market, but that's fine because AstraZeneca and Pfizer are there too with candidates.
 
2020-07-27 11:42:50 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Arachnophobe: Isn't Moderna the company with ties to the Trump admin? If that is the case, I honestly don't think I would take a vaccine from them.

While I do agree with you, the Moderna vaccine is an mRNA vaccine so overall there are less places for complications to occur.  Not saying the risks are zero, but it is a very interesting and promising methodology for future vaccines.  I genuinely hope it works with minimal complications as it avoids all of the egg allergy complications (like with influenza vaccines) or other potential issues with other vaccine platforms.


Yeah, because there's no chance of complications with having human cells produce an antigen that pisses off the immune system...

If both the Oxford and Moderna vaccines prove effective and are available you can bet I'm going to take the Oxford, way too high a risk of autoimmune diseases with the Moderna approach IMHO.
 
2020-07-27 11:52:00 AM  

FormlessOne: Just a reminder - it will take months to conclude this test. Then, months to review the results. Then, months to approve the vaccine. Finally, months more to make enough to manufacture enough to inoculate at least a third of the population.

Progress is always good news, but the simple fact of the matter is that we won't have a safe, tested vaccine available until mid-2021 at the earliest, and more likely much later than that.


Manufacture has already started on all candidates that passed phase 2 trials. Nobody is waiting for approval to start production, we need at least 14B doses of one or more vaccines, even with production starting a month ago there likely won't be more than a few hundred million available.
 
2020-07-27 11:59:13 AM  
There was a push for mandatory flu vaccines in the past. It didn't end well, and the repercussions are still being felt. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-​n​ews/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine​-fiasco-180961994/

I got the swine flu vaccine, and two weeks later contracted the swine flu. It was a whole bunch of no fun. Once I recovered and started hearing about the GBS cases, I had that to worry about for a while. If a COVID-19 vaccine is released, I'll get it eventually, but I won't be anywhere near the front of the line.
 
2020-07-27 12:29:52 PM  
They are taking a too long approach. They are inoculating and tracking for illness (can't test for antibodies - they should have them from the vaccine). They are NOT exposing the vaccinated to the virus directly. That is generally done to confirm that the vaccinated have been exposed instead of  just 'hoping' they are exposed. Playing the 'X% should be exposed' game requires much larger samples and much more time. Only 1% of the US has gotten the virus so going out into the world is hardly assured of being exposed. We need to know if it works SOONER rather than LATER. Vaccinate 30k, wait 30 days, expose half of them and give the other half a booster, wait another 30 days, then expose those with the booster. Then check the data. If they did this (with good results) we could be doing mass vaccinations in October.
 
2020-07-27 12:41:03 PM  

Guairdean: There was a push for mandatory flu vaccines in the past. It didn't end well, and the repercussions are still being felt. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-n​ews/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine​-fiasco-180961994/

I got the swine flu vaccine, and two weeks later contracted the swine flu. It was a whole bunch of no fun. Once I recovered and started hearing about the GBS cases, I had that to worry about for a while. If a COVID-19 vaccine is released, I'll get it eventually, but I won't be anywhere near the front of the line.


The 1976 Swine Flu vaccine did two things. It prevented an anticipated epidemic. It also triggered Guillain-Barre in 450 people. One of those people is the younger brother of a close friend. He is permanently disabled - he is essentially a four year old in the body of a 40-something year old man. It sucks.

So, over 80% of the US population was vaccinated and under 500 were effectively maimed or killed. That's terrible, until you realize that we are killing twice that number every day from COVID right now. 1976 vaccine was a huge fark-up which modern recombinant vaccines shouldn't be able to cause. If that prevents you from being vaccinated than I assume you NEVER go an a highway, NEVER drink or smoke, don't have a firearm in the house, and always maintain an ideal body weight because those activities are far far far more likely to kill you than even a bad vaccine.
 
2020-07-27 1:03:36 PM  
Oh my. Between when I last posted and now, I read that the government is giving Moderna another $471 million to produce their vaccine. Combined with the first infusion, that almost a billion dollars.

Disclaimer: I bought some MRNA before covid existed. My son works there and I thought they were doing good things with their mRNA platform. I try to keep my posts somewhat neutral but can't help but have some bias in Moderna's favor.
 
2020-07-27 1:06:33 PM  
Eat your heart out, Cyndi Loeper
 
2020-07-27 1:26:56 PM  

FormlessOne: Even the article indicates that they won't have data until "toward the end of the year." That's the conclusion of the test. The rest of the process - review, approval, manufacture - starts at that point.

Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Practice social distancing when you have to be out. Practice sterile procedure when you have to bring stuff in. Assume everything coming into your house is contaminated; assume everyone around you is a potential spreader, including yourself.


And as we all know, modern Americans are as disciplined as they are selfless.
 
2020-07-27 1:28:38 PM  

stuffy: Then to find. Making the vaccine was the easy part. Getting idiots to take it will be the challenge.


That's where DHS comes in.
 
2020-07-27 2:03:33 PM  
Am I the only one who accidentally reads this as, "Madonna's virus vaccine..." while scrolling through??
 
2020-07-27 3:09:43 PM  

madgonad: Guairdean: There was a push for mandatory flu vaccines in the past. It didn't end well, and the repercussions are still being felt. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-n​ews/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine​-fiasco-180961994/

I got the swine flu vaccine, and two weeks later contracted the swine flu. It was a whole bunch of no fun. Once I recovered and started hearing about the GBS cases, I had that to worry about for a while. If a COVID-19 vaccine is released, I'll get it eventually, but I won't be anywhere near the front of the line.

The 1976 Swine Flu vaccine did two things. It prevented an anticipated epidemic. It also triggered Guillain-Barre in 450 people. One of those people is the younger brother of a close friend. He is permanently disabled - he is essentially a four year old in the body of a 40-something year old man. It sucks.

So, over 80% of the US population was vaccinated and under 500 were effectively maimed or killed. That's terrible, until you realize that we are killing twice that number every day from COVID right now. 1976 vaccine was a huge fark-up which modern recombinant vaccines shouldn't be able to cause. If that prevents you from being vaccinated than I assume you NEVER go an a highway, NEVER drink or smoke, don't have a firearm in the house, and always maintain an ideal body weight because those activities are far far far more likely to kill you than even a bad vaccine.


25% were vaccinated before the program was ended, not 80%. 1 person died from the flu, 14 were hospitalized. It wasn't much of an epidemic. Roughly 500 were diagnosed with GBS directly attributable to the vaccine, scores more were sickened and had lifetime problems, and between 25 and 30 died from reactions to the vaccine. Like I said, I'll eventually get the vaccine if it proves to be safe, but I'll let the Overly Eager Canaries clear the way.
 
2020-07-27 3:48:42 PM  

Guairdean: 25% were vaccinated before the program was ended, not 80%. 1 person died from the flu, 14 were hospitalized. It wasn't much of an epidemic. Roughly 500 were diagnosed with GBS directly attributable to the vaccine, scores more were sickened and had lifetime problems, and between 25 and 30 died from reactions to the vaccine. Like I said, I'll eventually get the vaccine if it proves to be safe, but I'll let the Overly Eager Canaries clear the way.


You do understand that the problem with the vaccine relates to the eggs they cultured it in. We don't use eggs anymore. It is all recombinant. We program vats of bacteria to manufacture the recognizable parts of the virus and inject those. Essentially making Most Wanted posters for the immune system without risking actual infections from weakened viruses and dangerous exposures to egg proteins and other process contaminations.

But go on and continue to be the hero letting everyone else go first.
 
2020-07-27 4:09:46 PM  

madgonad: Guairdean: 25% were vaccinated before the program was ended, not 80%. 1 person died from the flu, 14 were hospitalized. It wasn't much of an epidemic. Roughly 500 were diagnosed with GBS directly attributable to the vaccine, scores more were sickened and had lifetime problems, and between 25 and 30 died from reactions to the vaccine. Like I said, I'll eventually get the vaccine if it proves to be safe, but I'll let the Overly Eager Canaries clear the way.

You do understand that the problem with the vaccine relates to the eggs they cultured it in. We don't use eggs anymore. It is all recombinant. We program vats of bacteria to manufacture the recognizable parts of the virus and inject those. Essentially making Most Wanted posters for the immune system without risking actual infections from weakened viruses and dangerous exposures to egg proteins and other process contaminations.

But go on and continue to be the hero letting everyone else go first.



* Egg based vaccines are the most common for flu vaccines.
* Moderna does not use vats of bacteria - it is a synthetic mRNA molecule encased in a custom lipid.
 
2020-07-28 12:05:52 AM  
I've got some special rocks you can buy that should be almost as effective.
 
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