Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Buzzfeed News)   DHS employees worry the Portland protest response could destroy their agency's reputation. In related news, some DHS employees think their agency had a good reputation   (buzzfeednews.com) divider line
    More: Followup, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, DHS officers, Donald Trump, Civil liberties, senior DHS officials, United States Department of Homeland Security, Trump administration, Federal Bureau of Investigation  
•       •       •

1875 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 24 Jul 2020 at 3:33 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



80 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2020-07-23 10:33:25 PM  
Only the sickest farks think themselves monsters.
To be clear, they ARE monsters.
 
2020-07-23 10:43:00 PM  
The USA has over 17 security agencies and departments. You really need to start defunding some of these.

One foreign (CIA), one domestic (FBI), one police (FBI again) and one for business fraud (Commerce), that was plenty in the 1940s through 1990s and it should be plenty now.

And why does every damn government service need guns, tanks, helicopters, jets, etc? The Park Service? Well, maybe Game Wardens need to defend themselves against Sovereign Citizens, but Park Rangers?
 
2020-07-23 10:43:24 PM  
And Fish Wardens. They need to shoot back at the poachers once in a while.
 
2020-07-23 10:56:17 PM  
DHS ought to clamor for the 25th amendment to be invoked.
 
2020-07-23 11:11:05 PM  
Ever considered not following illegal orders?

Yeah, yeah, I know. Then you wouldn't have any orders at all, would you?
 
2020-07-23 11:52:31 PM  
Or you could rename yourselves the Dept of Fatherland Security.
 
2020-07-24 12:46:40 AM  
I've said it before, but the foundational issue with the DHS is the Department itself, not necessarily the component parts.

What we now refer to as the DHS used to be a bunch of mostly unrelated subsections of the federal government, narrowly constrained to specific issues. What we now know as ICE was mainly a part of the Department of Labor, focused on employers who secretly hired unregistered immigrants. What we now call the TSA was a tiny part of the Department of Transportation and so was the Coast Guard. The Secret Service was part of the Treasury Department, and FEMA was made up from a hodgepodge of disaster-level response teams from the Departments of Energy, Justice, Agriculture and Health and Human Services.

So it was possible to motivate each of these agencies towards larger federal policy goals but only by first creating sweeping changes in the agencies and departments they were part of. The President couldn't just snap his fingers and order INS to stop people at the border. The Secretary of the Treasury understood how the Secret Service fit within the Treasury Department and its objectives and how to follow higher orders while keeping them on-task. Customs and Border Patrol couldn't easily justify doing something wildly off-mission like deploying unidentifiable guys in military combat gear to arrest American protesters in a major city hundreds of miles from the border.

What exists now is a system more akin to being the elected mayor and getting to order the chief of police to crack down on crime so you look good. You control the police budget, the police have all the tools necessary to look tough, and if people don't do what you say they'll be replaced with people who will. And not just at the Presidential level, this holds true for Congress and state officials as well.

So now we have what's basically a nationwide Sheriff's department and the Sheriff (the cabinet member in charge) is running for reelection every few months or years based on what the president thinks of their job performance. Instead of enforcing the laws as part of a larger organization with discrete areas of enforcement and interest, these groups are instead being directed to "clean up the streets" in a public way that makes the boss look tough on crime. And that doesn't allow for long-term planning since the President could change their mind or the Presidency itself could change mid-mission.

TLDR the Department of Homeland Security is a hastily thrown together mess that's designed for finding terrorists in a damn hurry but useless for broader law and regulatory enforcement.
 
2020-07-24 1:16:13 AM  
Their sleek, new Hugo Boss uniforms should turn things around.

warhistoryonline.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-24 1:26:21 AM  
No department with "Homeland" in its name should exist.
 
2020-07-24 2:54:36 AM  
Biden's "DAY ONE" - purge all MAGAts from government at every level. No negotiation on that.

After that, there are about a thousand and one more "First" things for the new administration to do, but I really believe that one of the very first is to fire all these fu*king mercenaries that our taxes are paying for and start investigations into Eric Prince - he's dirty as fu*k.

Then disband ICE and CPB and create a new Border Patrol and a separate agency that handles seasonal migration, guest visas, labor protections, and so on for migrant workers, with a path to citizenship. These folks are hard-working, and we need the SS support. Punish *employers* who break the new rules.

Border Patrol would be tasked with *providing* water, instead of destroying it, for example, and be mainly concerned with any drug smuggling, unless it's weed. Weed will be sold at auction to dispensaries and that money can help fund the new BP.

Customs would be a separate agency dealing with actual customs-type work.

Then all the alphabet agencies under the Department of "Homeland" Security should be reconsidered and regrouped as appropriate, with the head of a central control agency - something named oh, central control and not "homeland security," would basically coordinate the agencies as needed for whatever situation.

All IGs fired be restored, unless they were MAGAts, and stringent rules on firing an IG enacted.

NOW, we can work on all the rest, but unless we purge the gov of these specific problem areas, the next tin-pot dictator wanna-be has the MAGAt playbook ready to go.
 
2020-07-24 3:48:36 AM  

thecactusman17: I've said it before, but the foundational issue with the DHS is the Department itself, not necessarily the component parts.

What we now refer to as the DHS used to be a bunch of mostly unrelated subsections of the federal government, narrowly constrained to specific issues. What we now know as ICE was mainly a part of the Department of Labor, focused on employers who secretly hired unregistered immigrants. What we now call the TSA was a tiny part of the Department of Transportation and so was the Coast Guard. The Secret Service was part of the Treasury Department, and FEMA was made up from a hodgepodge of disaster-level response teams from the Departments of Energy, Justice, Agriculture and Health and Human Services.

So it was possible to motivate each of these agencies towards larger federal policy goals but only by first creating sweeping changes in the agencies and departments they were part of. The President couldn't just snap his fingers and order INS to stop people at the border. The Secretary of the Treasury understood how the Secret Service fit within the Treasury Department and its objectives and how to follow higher orders while keeping them on-task. Customs and Border Patrol couldn't easily justify doing something wildly off-mission like deploying unidentifiable guys in military combat gear to arrest American protesters in a major city hundreds of miles from the border.

What exists now is a system more akin to being the elected mayor and getting to order the chief of police to crack down on crime so you look good. You control the police budget, the police have all the tools necessary to look tough, and if people don't do what you say they'll be replaced with people who will. And not just at the Presidential level, this holds true for Congress and state officials as well.

So now we have what's basically a nationwide Sheriff's department and the Sheriff (the cabinet member in charge) is running for reelection every few months or years based on what the president thinks of their job performance. Instead of enforcing the laws as part of a larger organization with discrete areas of enforcement and interest, these groups are instead being directed to "clean up the streets" in a public way that makes the boss look tough on crime. And that doesn't allow for long-term planning since the President could change their mind or the Presidency itself could change mid-mission.

TLDR the Department of Homeland Security is a hastily thrown together mess that's designed for finding terrorists in a damn hurry but useless for broader law and regulatory enforcement.


I smarted your post and was with you until the last point.

It was never about the terrorists.
See where the past focus was, see what achievements are mentioned, see how much is spent on finding terrorists vs surveillance of individuals.

/keep in mind, a police state actually has less criminal convictions, not more, because the rest are coerced, caught and released, or imprisoned without charges. Methods not standing up in court doesn't mean they can't be used otherwise
//still, thanks for a very decent post
///slashies FTW
 
2020-07-24 3:50:30 AM  

Purple_Urkle: DHS ought to clamor for the 25th amendment to be invoked.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-24 3:54:03 AM  

foo monkey: No department with "Homeland" in its name should exist.


I was disgusted with that Orwellian name from the start.  Come to think of it, my first thought on seeing the first footage on 9/11 was "Oh man, this country is going to be seriously farked up for a very long time".  I sometimes hate being right.
 
2020-07-24 3:55:23 AM  

silvervial: Biden's "DAY ONE" - purge all MAGAts from government at every level. No negotiation on that.

After that, there are about a thousand and one more "First" things for the new administration to do, but I really believe that one of the very first is to fire all these fu*king mercenaries that our taxes are paying for and start investigations into Eric Prince - he's dirty as fu*k.

Then disband ICE and CPB and create a new Border Patrol and a separate agency that handles seasonal migration, guest visas, labor protections, and so on for migrant workers, with a path to citizenship. These folks are hard-working, and we need the SS support. Punish *employers* who break the new rules.

Border Patrol would be tasked with *providing* water, instead of destroying it, for example, and be mainly concerned with any drug smuggling, unless it's weed. Weed will be sold at auction to dispensaries and that money can help fund the new BP.

Customs would be a separate agency dealing with actual customs-type work.

Then all the alphabet agencies under the Department of "Homeland" Security should be reconsidered and regrouped as appropriate, with the head of a central control agency - something named oh, central control and not "homeland security," would basically coordinate the agencies as needed for whatever situation.

All IGs fired be restored, unless they were MAGAts, and stringent rules on firing an IG enacted.

NOW, we can work on all the rest, but unless we purge the gov of these specific problem areas, the next tin-pot dictator wanna-be has the MAGAt playbook ready to go.


Sorry, I want those camps emptied on day one. Then send in camera crews to interview and document everything. Make sure the immigrants are given a chance to make specific accusations and point to the guards responsible. Then bulldoze them out of existence.

Then open an investigation into every single one of the assholes involved, from the guy who EO'd the separation policy into existence down to the gophers who changed the coffee filters in the break rooms.

Fire them all, sure. But I don't want any of those worms to have positions of power over anyone or anything other than a bucket designed for scooping out shiat that overflows from a port-a-potty.
 
2020-07-24 3:55:30 AM  

fusillade762: foo monkey: No department with "Homeland" in its name should exist.

I was disgusted with that Orwellian name from the start.  Come to think of it, my first thought on seeing the first footage on 9/11 was "Oh man, this country is going to be seriously farked up for a very long time".  I sometimes hate being right.


When 9/11 happened, I prayed "please let it be domestic terrorists", because I knew otherwise the country was going to go way overboard.
 
2020-07-24 3:58:39 AM  
IF they had any scintilla of a good reputation left, it's gone now.
 
2020-07-24 4:01:06 AM  

foo monkey: No department with "Homeland" in its name should exist.


Pfft.... Fine.

We'll go with Fatherland.

Happy now?
 
2020-07-24 4:01:59 AM  

Gyrfalcon: IF they had any scintilla of a good reputation left, it's gone now.


Puff. Gone in a cloud of smoke tear gas
 
2020-07-24 4:02:21 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-24 4:13:58 AM  

brantgoose: And why does every damn government service need guns, tanks, helicopters, jets, etc? The Park Service? Well, maybe Game Wardens need to defend themselves against Sovereign Citizens, but Park Rangers?


To be fair, I would be most comfortable squaring off against a grizzly bear while in a tank. Or a helicopter.
 
2020-07-24 4:17:55 AM  
The term condottiero in medieval Italian originally meant "contractor", given that the condotta was the contract by which the condottieri put themselves in the service of a city or of a lord, but became a synonym of "military leader" during the Renaissance and Reformation era

The Condottieri were bandits.
 
2020-07-24 4:28:42 AM  
In related news, the ATF is now celebrating that they're not the bad guys anymore (relatively speaking).
 
2020-07-24 4:32:13 AM  
It's hard to imagine that an organization which thrives over brazenly illegally obtained warrants from a completely corrupt court would be capable of contrition or anxiety. I wonder what kind of protest could actually make them nervous.
 
2020-07-24 4:38:14 AM  

brantgoose: The USA has over 17 security agencies and departments. You really need to start defunding some of these.

One foreign (CIA), one domestic (FBI), one police (FBI again) and one for business fraud (Commerce), that was plenty in the 1940s through 1990s and it should be plenty now.

And why does every damn government service need guns, tanks, helicopters, jets, etc? The Park Service? Well, maybe Game Wardens need to defend themselves against Sovereign Citizens, but Park Rangers?


You forget the over 18000 other law enforcement agencies that litter your country.  No way you can manage, train, coordinate such a group.  If I had to point to a country that had no control over law enforcement, sure the US wouldn't be the first, but it would be the first modern western democracy I pointed at.
 
2020-07-24 4:38:23 AM  

bloobeary: Ever considered not following illegal orders?

Yeah, yeah, I know. Then you wouldn't have any orders at all, would you?


I'm disappointed that not one of them, that I know of, has openly resigned from whatever service they are in and did a press conference where they denounce what is going on. It makes me think that they are all hand picked for their loyalty to Trump above all else. THAT is a scary thought. It means this isn't the action of people doing what they think is the right thing. It's being done by people who are doing what their leader commands and they don't care if it's right or wrong. This is not a war with a foreign army. These are US citizens in a US city populated by civilians. It makes me wonder if there is anything they won't do if Trump gives the order.

I wonder what would happen if a governor sent national guard units to 'relieve' the secret police and those feds won't leave because Trump told them to hold their ground. We might see Americans fighting Americans right there and then.
 
2020-07-24 4:39:01 AM  

brantgoose: The USA has over 17 security agencies and departments. You really need to start defunding some of these.

One foreign (CIA), one domestic (FBI), one police (FBI again) and one for business fraud (Commerce), that was plenty in the 1940s through 1990s and it should be plenty now.

And why does every damn government service need guns, tanks, helicopters, jets, etc? The Park Service? Well, maybe Game Wardens need to defend themselves against Sovereign Citizens, but Park Rangers?


Forest fires? I mean, they do airlift water. Poaching? Helicopter patrols could be useful. Rescue? Again, helicopters. Karens? I mean, do you really have to ask about the tanks and fighter jets?
 
2020-07-24 4:45:57 AM  
DHS is a complete cabinet level department subby.  And some of us know DHS usually has the lowest morale of all departments within the government. We already know the reputation is crap.
 
2020-07-24 4:56:00 AM  

brantgoose: The USA has over 17 security agencies and departments. You really need to start defunding some of these.

One foreign (CIA), one domestic (FBI), one police (FBI again) and one for business fraud (Commerce), that was plenty in the 1940s through 1990s and it should be plenty now.

And why does every damn government service need guns, tanks, helicopters, jets, etc? The Park Service? Well, maybe Game Wardens need to defend themselves against Sovereign Citizens, but Park Rangers?


This is one of your more coherent posts and I mostly agree except for the planes and helicopter stuff.

I do enjoy a lot of your ramblings but sometimes you go a little too deep end for me. Thanks for being here, you silly Canuck.

(Ducking brant's high stick)
 
2020-07-24 5:05:50 AM  
Maybe Trump was binge watching House of Cards and thought that he could just use ICO as a excuse to get boots on the ground in places that show him no respect.
I am beginning to think they might be the baddies.
 
2020-07-24 5:16:44 AM  
Trump's most loyal pigs (don't want to use dogs here because I like dogs, actually I like pigs too)... Hmmm, Trump's most loyal cockroaches...
 
2020-07-24 5:44:36 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Now replace "Family separation policy" with "Kidnap innocent protesters policy"
 
2020-07-24 5:56:27 AM  
It's time to recognize that a secret police force attacking Americans is not upsetting for Republicans. This is what they wanted the entire time. They just didn't have a craven enough psychopath in office to do it until now. I kept wondering what the GOP was holding out for. Nothing else explains their silence on the matter.

Why didn't GOP leadership just march from the Capital to the White House and tell trump his time was up? Because this is their payoff for putting up with trump's antics for 4 years.

Lot's of people are going to die and this is what they wanted.
 
2020-07-24 5:57:13 AM  
 Bush the Lessor: " I have this rock, it keeps terrorists away and helps control protesters when they get out of hand."

America: " I want to buy your rock."
 
gcc [TotalFark]
2020-07-24 5:58:35 AM  
Forget DHS's reputation. I'm ready to destroy DHS.

Disband, defund, disarm, demolish. It's time for it to go.
 
2020-07-24 6:09:34 AM  
But butbut....they were just following orders.
 
2020-07-24 6:10:42 AM  

fusillade762: foo monkey: No department with "Homeland" in its name should exist.

I was disgusted with that Orwellian name from the start.  Come to think of it, my first thought on seeing the first footage on 9/11 was "Oh man, this country is going to be seriously farked up for a very long time".  I sometimes hate being right.


Watching our country throw itself headfirst into the woodchipper post 9/11 was an enlightening experience.

Right up until the tanks rolled, I thought 'there's no way we are stupid enough to invade Iraq'.  Like, I didn't oppose the invasion, because I thought there was no chance there would be one.

OOOOOOPS.

Now, I honestly don't think there's any stupidity we, as a nation, are incapable of.
 
2020-07-24 6:10:43 AM  

fusillade762: I sometimes hate being right.


The night I watched the election of Trump with a friend, I told them that "this guy is going to get a lot of people killed".

I was right about that, but I thought the first large group of his victims would be in a middle-eastern country, not in the USA.
 
2020-07-24 6:39:49 AM  
Guess you should have thought about that before volunteering to play dress up and play with dangerous toys.
 
2020-07-24 6:46:53 AM  
Rick Perry forgot the name of the wrong agency.

DHS has been a shiatshow from the start. I went to conferences where we heard from TSA (because, you know, I work in the tansportation business).
First meeting: "We are aligned by modes (aviation, rail, highway, pipeline, vessel)" Because what they didn't say is that was how the previous agencies worked.
Second meeting (new TSA head and/or DHS Secretary): "We are now aligned by function" Translation: "We think truck bombs are a potential issue, so we're gonna send former FAA Air Marshalls and Treasury agents to work with former DOT inspectors."
Third meeting (yet again a new TSA head and/or DHS Secretary): "We've returned to modal alignment."

At every meeting, they'd make noises about being worried about school bus security. "Because our nation's school children are our most precious resource" and in spite of the fact that none of the school shootings took place on a school bus.

I knew a few people that had left DOT to go work for DHS. Within a year, all but one were back at their DOT jobs.
 
2020-07-24 6:47:15 AM  

Keeve: In related news, the ATF is now celebrating that they're not the bad guys anymore (relatively speaking).


I bet over at the IRS they are high fiving each other.
 
2020-07-24 6:48:03 AM  

groppet: Keeve: In related news, the ATF is now celebrating that they're not the bad guys anymore (relatively speaking).

I bet over at the IRS they are high fiving each other.


Via Zoom.
 
2020-07-24 7:15:33 AM  
I have had some relatively good experiences with DHS workers.  FPS is helpful, and the immigration examiners were nice.  Even TSA workers have generally been kind, or at least quietly disgruntled.  However every time I enter the country, I start getting pissed because the border agents are bullies.

Their job is to check ID and make sure you didn't bring in a bunch of produce.  They don't need to know everything I did on vacation.  Stop interrogating American citizens because we look foreign. I've already been there too long, and I'm cranky from being on a plane too long. Leave me alone.
 
2020-07-24 7:26:31 AM  
Deport DHS
 
2020-07-24 7:30:23 AM  
The New Enemy in Trumpworld: MOMS
SO UNFAIR
 
2020-07-24 7:35:27 AM  
How come we never see any of Fark's vociferously vocal firearms advocates in these threads?
Where, oh where have they gone to?
They have been assuring me for years that they were America's spine, guts, and conscience, and that they would step in and defend America from tyranny where we weak, unarmed, non-arsenal-owning libs would let the country down. And also that it was essential that they be allowed to play with machine guns so they would be ready for this eventuality.
Now, Trump is sending Federal troops into American cities to suppress protest, and muttering darkly about how the opposing party plan to "rig" the election he is basically trying to use Covid to stop.
So, where the f**k ARE you gun guys?
Wha hoppen....?
 
2020-07-24 7:35:39 AM  
What I don't get is why Trump thinks that creating a Gestapo will improve his chance of re-election.
 
2020-07-24 7:36:07 AM  
The Land of the Free and the home of the brave should have no need of Homeland Security. The mere idea of it sounds like something out of Hitler's Germany. Now we see that Trump's America is essentially the same thing.I think that there should be a little more outrage here for military contractors operating on American soil.
 
2020-07-24 7:39:59 AM  

farkturf: What I don't get is why Trump thinks that creating a Gestapo will improve his chance of re-election.


He thinks that being seen as a "law and order" President who is tough on "rioters" will win him the suburbs and rural areas (look at his Tweet yesterday basically trying to say that Joe Biden wants to destroy American suburbs).

He thinks that if he's not seen as "strong" then he'll lose, so he is trying to be a weak man's idea of a strong man.

He doesn't get that he's seen as the villain here by most of America.
 
2020-07-24 7:40:02 AM  

farkturf: What I don't get is why Trump thinks that creating a Gestapo will improve his chance of re-election.


Because 40% of the population will adore and applaud him for doing it, and reward him with their votes, which in combination with fraud and the EC will be enough to allow him to win again. That and the fact that most of the other 60% won't bother to vote.
 
2020-07-24 7:48:06 AM  

farkturf: What I don't get is why Trump thinks that creating a Gestapo will improve his chance of re-election.


He is threatening to kill Biden voters.
 
Displayed 50 of 80 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.