Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Refinery29)   Is asking women to wear makeup for Zoom meetings sexist and illegal?   (refinery29.com) divider line
    More: Survey, Discrimination, Gender, Sexism, Woman, Sexual harassment, woman's right, Female, Sex  
•       •       •

3527 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jul 2020 at 4:05 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



269 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2020-07-23 4:29:49 PM  

Goldensummer: There are exceptions for businesses where makeup is considered part of the uniform like theater or cosmetics or striping.


??

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-23 4:30:03 PM  
The expectations for a Zoom meeting should be the same as those for an in-person meeting. If your employer has a required level of visual expectations for you as a representative of their company, you should be expected to follow those same expectations online.

Why is this even an issue?
 
2020-07-23 4:30:12 PM  
Normally I'd say yes.  Because I was taught that treating someone different due to an immutable characteristic from birth over which they have no control is wrong.  But thankfully I became woke, anti-racist, and anti-sexist.  So NOW the only proper thing is to treat men and women differently, as well as people of different races.  Because that's what a good liberal does.
 
2020-07-23 4:30:24 PM  

Xai: If ... everyone is being asked to present a professional image then no


That's it. If your employer mandates you show up on stream looking like you do in the office, shave the woolly mammoth beard, floss out last night's dinner and put on the makeup.

Some of the situations in the article seem a little one sided. I can't imagine any policy that wouldn't get utterly shredded by HR if they didn't also mention that men should be well groomed and shaved as well and the article doesn't elaborate.

It sucks that the female side of personal care is considerably more involved than the male side, but that's a systemic issue beyond Zoom meetings.
 
2020-07-23 4:30:59 PM  
I've never felt comfortable around clowns; being forced to look like a clown can't be better.
 
2020-07-23 4:31:22 PM  

angryjd: No and no.


Yes, actually, and discrimination is illegal.

You're welcome.
 
2020-07-23 4:33:18 PM  

Xai: If it's a meeting with clients and everyone is being asked to present a professional image then no, if it's for the 'benefit' of male employees, which is what I suspect, then yes.


I've counted as "professional" at least a few times in my life, and during none of those times was I wearing makeup.

The lack of makeup did not hinder my ability to look or be professional, or to demonstrate my skills to those present.

Women absolutely DO NOT need to wear makeup.  Thanks.
 
2020-07-23 4:33:37 PM  
That tis has to be even even be talked about reinforces my belief that some people are just around to make life miserable for others. These people need to be purged to make life better.
 
2020-07-23 4:33:53 PM  
I understand the impulse to call this sexist, since its a double standard based on sex, but I'm not sure that's actually reasonable.  It seems to me this is more of a trap women have caught themselves up in.

Because women in professional settings wear make-up as the norm, they have established that as the norm.  So when they don't wear make-up, they look different and worse, and it's weird and off-putting.  Unprofessional.  But it's not anyone's fault that women have perpetuated these norms except the women who perpetuate these norms. Naomi Wolf's The Beauty Myth was published 30 years ago.  An entire generation of women have grown up since then, but make-up is still going strong.
 
2020-07-23 4:34:27 PM  

Xai: If it's a meeting with clients and everyone is being asked to present a professional image then no, if it's for the 'benefit' of male employees, which is what I suspect, then yes.


I'll agree with the caveat that the request be as gender neutral and as common sense as possible.

We've had similar discussions at my workplace, and the consensus boiled down to this: if it's a zoom meeting with a client, do us proud & be presentable. If it's a zoom meeting with coworkers, have basic personal hygiene.

Also, this:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-23 4:34:52 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: Are the men being asked to wear make-up?   No?

Then yes, it is sexist.


You almost got to the solution.  Make the men wear make up too.  Problem solved.
 
2020-07-23 4:34:54 PM  
Why you fapblocking, tho?
 
2020-07-23 4:36:07 PM  
If I participated in a video meeting (and I'm male) and any comment was made or any request was stated about anyone needing to wear makeup, I would scream, cuss and end the call if I could.  No place for that talk.  I have no idea if it's illegal, but I damn sure won't share bytes with anyone that thinks like that, male or female.  If I was in a position to fire the person who commented, I would then and there in front of everyone on the call.  Then, I would mail them their last check with a gift card to Ulta and a big steaming bag of shiat.
 
2020-07-23 4:36:08 PM  
If a woman wants to wear make-up, that's her choice. There is no circumstance under which a woman should HAVE to wear make-up. None. Zero. Nada.

If I were a woman and someone, especially a man, made a comment that I had to/should wear make-up, I'd like to think the first words out of my mouth would be "where's yours?", closely followed by "fark off".
 
2020-07-23 4:36:16 PM  

Jaws_Victim: How sexist and tone deaf of their CEO.

In the meantime, how about she trade me with my essential job, and she go out in public and expose herself to covid, and I'll stay home and put make up on and sit on my ass on a webcam?

Real tired of white collar people and their "issues" staying home and being safe.


Feminism and equal rights isn't a "white collar" issue.  And I'm sure you'd be pissed off if you were considered lesser at your place of employment if you weren't wearing makeup.

We can't let this crap slide just because the world's on fire.  Now's the time to make changes.
 
2020-07-23 4:36:51 PM  
Yes it's sexist. Though I also think it's sexist that people ask me when I'm going to start shaving again. It's like, dude, my balls are my business.
 
2020-07-23 4:38:03 PM  
I love how Fark is often called a cesspit of progressive lunacy, while said Farkers defend the notion that women can't look professional unless they hide their face.
 
2020-07-23 4:38:03 PM  
How about mandatory Snapchat filters for everyone

/fark all your faces, my fellow employees
 
2020-07-23 4:38:42 PM  
Look, being a clown or a mime requires makeup, even on Zoom.
 
2020-07-23 4:39:12 PM  
Any organizational manager who requires video meetings for no good reason should be shot. Voice works fine.
 
2020-07-23 4:40:55 PM  

angryjd: No and no.


Look forward to your new glam makeup look that I'm sure is coming, sis!
 
2020-07-23 4:41:27 PM  
Depends on the context.

If you are customer facing, even online, then yes, men are shaved, everyone is dressed professionally (for the context), and yes, that usually means the women look presentable too, whether or not that in ludes makeup is up to them.

If it is strictly internal, fark the make up, and fark any condition that the men need to shave.
 
2020-07-23 4:42:00 PM  
I work for the fruity computer company and have been working at home and been participating in meetings via video for the last 6 years.

Our Rules.

1.Your background be neat and orderly.
2.Wear pants
3.Beard or no makeup is fine


They only ask that you be somewhat presentable for the hour and 15 minutes you are on camera, once a week.

No face cream, boxers, nail cutting, etc.
 
2020-07-23 4:42:14 PM  

Scythed: Any organizational manager who requires video meetings for no good reason should be shot. Voice works fine.


Well, most of the time anyway ...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-23 4:42:44 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: Are the men being asked to wear make-up?   No?

Then yes, it is sexist.


Well, that was easy, and correct.
 
2020-07-23 4:43:00 PM  

KidKorporate: They don't ask me to wear pants, so I don't ask them to wear makeup.


Captain Morgan Video Call | Peeled Orange
Youtube n6Twl-Y869Q
 
2020-07-23 4:43:33 PM  

Snarfangel: Look, being a clown or a mime requires makeup, even on Zoom.


You do you know the mimes aren't cheating by muting their mics?
 
2020-07-23 4:43:47 PM  
Also, unless actually seeing a face is VITAL to the job, all employee units should be given a Unique identification string and a face mask that makes them faceless drones.  No gender, no name, no personal histories, items of flare.  Just working towards the goal of the company until the time to clock out.  If unit BSzUfCtL4Lh73rFEfn9be6j4 is working on the project and Unit 12546666666589 needs information about the project, they just dial up  unit BSzUfCtL4Lh73rFEfn9be6j4 on their company comm device, exchange the info, and then disconnect.  No gender needed.  No face needed.  Hell, it may have been that unit BSzUfCtL4Lh73rFEfn9be6j4 was replaced with a robot last year.  Unless the information exchange REQUIRES meat, why would unit 12546666666589 care if BSzUfCtL4Lh73rFEfn9be6j4 is meat or not?
 
2020-07-23 4:43:56 PM  

Bad Luck Schleprock: The expectations for a Zoom meeting should be the same as those for an in-person meeting. If your employer has a required level of visual expectations for you as a representative of their company, you should be expected to follow those same expectations online.

Why is this even an issue?


I am not a trained psychologist and most of my clients are the imaginary personalities that I have imprinted onto my stuffed animals, but in the course of my training and studies and career, I have determined that the typical individual on Fark Dot Com (and particularly those posting in the Politics Tab) suffers from low self-esteem.

What this means is that because of an inability to develop self-confidence and achieve meaningful life goals, the result of a sheltered middle-class upbringing in which they experienced no adversity, they are offended by everyone and everything.  If they do not have something to be offended by in that particular moment, they will actively search for it.

They now actively seek out life experiences which justify their state of mind, this article (and discussion thread) are one of those moments.  The result is that Farkers will use this thread (and others) on the path to making the world a better place, while openly bemoaning how they will never have children because the world will not be a better place.

They will read this post and they will think about replying, but the sad truth is that even on digital messageboards, they know they are weak and powerless to stop dominant alphas such as myself, the Chads and Stacys who write multiple paragraphs as though they are handing in a one-hundred-word essay to their teacher.

They will cower at the thought of conflict because they lack the self-esteem to confront those who belittle them.  They will politely upvote this post and they will move on, while people such as myself move on to better things, like the next season of that anime where the high school girls find out the teachers are the vampires who roam the night.

Makes you wonder why the vampires hold all the classes at night.  Must have something to do with Japanese culture.
 
2020-07-23 4:46:37 PM  
No makeup? Fine.

Just dont ask men to shave or wear a suit or tie. Since it's all about standards of visual professional decorum.
 
2020-07-23 4:46:41 PM  

Goldensummer: angryjd: No and no.

Yes and likely yes.

If the policy only effects one gender it is sexist. If it effects promotions, treatment or hiring it is likely illegal because it targets one gender and isn't applied equally. There are specific rules that govern this in the US.  There are exceptions for businesses where makeup is considered part of the uniform like theater or cosmetics or striping.
I worked in retail for twelve years in management and managed multi million dollar locations of high end boutiques and NEVER wore makeup. I'm clean, well styled and wore what we sold. I had exactly one manager who tried to tell me I had to and corporate had to inform him that he was incorrect.


I'm curious about the "if men and women are treated differently it is sexist" part.  My work has different dress code for men and women.  Is that sexist?  Personally, I don't care if dudes wear dresses but it IS against the dress code.

Difficulty: My employer is the US Govt.
 
2020-07-23 4:48:02 PM  

fatassbastard: Magnanimous_J: A lot of [women] look like Winston Churchill in a wig.

So what? As long as they're clean and kempt, what difference does it make?


None. I'm just pointing it out.

Its just that if I was looking like a sleepy old cantaloupe, I'd welcome the opportunity to look a bit more polished.
 
2020-07-23 4:48:36 PM  
Really, the answer is that it depends for both.  If a policy is put out that outlines requirements for professional dress on meetings it could be written in a way that has different requirements for men and women's dress.  Men can required to wear suits, when the same requirement may not be imposed on women.  As long as the policy was written well it would be legal and probably not sexist.

If the company just comes out and says "dames need to look pretty and wear makeup". That is obviously sexist and probably illegal.
 
2020-07-23 4:50:32 PM  

Goldensummer: angryjd: No and no.

Yes and likely yes.

If the policy only effects one gender it is sexist. If it effects promotions, treatment or hiring it is likely illegal because it targets one gender and isn't applied equally. There are specific rules that govern this in the US.  There are exceptions for businesses where makeup is considered part of the uniform like theater or cosmetics or striping.
I worked in retail for twelve years in management and managed multi million dollar locations of high end boutiques and NEVER wore makeup. I'm clean, well styled and wore what we sold. I had exactly one manager who tried to tell me I had to and corporate had to inform him that he was incorrect.


Do you think that you would win in court? If not, then the answer is no.
 
2020-07-23 4:50:52 PM  

Leader O'Cola: No makeup? Fine.

Just dont ask men to shave or wear a suit or tie. Since it's all about standards of visual professional decorum.


False equivalence much?
 
2020-07-23 4:53:49 PM  
It's capitalism folks.  Sure, pass a "no-makeup" rule at your company.  Equitable and progressive.

But your competitors might not be so like-minded.  If they start making more profit because their sales people look attractive then your investors might want a re-think on your policies.
 
2020-07-23 4:54:40 PM  

Leader O'Cola: No makeup? Fine.

Just dont ask men to shave or wear a suit or tie. Since it's all about standards of visual professional decorum.


Or ask all the employees to wear makeup, a suit and tie, and to shave their faces.  Yes even the old ladies with a mustache.  If it is universal, it isn't wrong.
 
2020-07-23 4:55:05 PM  

Boo_Guy: Anyone know what happened to the weirdly small waisted Russian girl thread?

It was nuked from existence before I could read it.

/this post will self destruct in 3,2,1..


Here's the source article.  You're welcome, I guess.

https://englishrussia.com/2020/07/23/​r​ussian-girl-with-the-amazingly-slender​-waist
 
2020-07-23 4:55:31 PM  

patowen: It's capitalism folks.  Sure, pass a "no-makeup" rule at your company.  Equitable and progressive.

But your competitors might not be so like-minded.  If they start making more profit because their sales people look attractive then your investors might want a re-think on your policies.


That's a nice way of justifying sexism.
 
2020-07-23 4:57:24 PM  

stray_capts: Goldensummer: angryjd: No and no.

Yes and likely yes.

If the policy only effects one gender it is sexist. If it effects promotions, treatment or hiring it is likely illegal because it targets one gender and isn't applied equally. There are specific rules that govern this in the US.  There are exceptions for businesses where makeup is considered part of the uniform like theater or cosmetics or striping.
I worked in retail for twelve years in management and managed multi million dollar locations of high end boutiques and NEVER wore makeup. I'm clean, well styled and wore what we sold. I had exactly one manager who tried to tell me I had to and corporate had to inform him that he was incorrect.

I'm curious about the "if men and women are treated differently it is sexist" part.  My work has different dress code for men and women.  Is that sexist?  Personally, I don't care if dudes wear dresses but it IS against the dress code.

Difficulty: My employer is the US Govt.


I am actively writing to my government weasels to have universal standards in the government.  If I get my way, you will all be nameless and faceless.  You won't need makeup, since you should all have identity obscuring masks on anyways.  The government doesn't need your gender or sexuality or any other personal info about you.  You should be doing your job as a drone, and nothing else.  Then you clock out, go home and be an individual there.  Problem solved.
 
2020-07-23 4:57:36 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-23 4:57:51 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Dewey Fidalgo: Are the men being asked to wear make-up?   No?

Then yes, it is sexist.

You almost got to the solution.  Make the men wear make up too.  Problem solved.


As you insist:
byrdie.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-23 4:59:59 PM  

Xai: If it's a meeting with clients and everyone is being asked to present a professional image then no, if it's for the 'benefit' of male employees, which is what I suspect, then yes.


Um no. If men are not asked to come to the party with makeup on to be "professional" then neither should women. Women are also just fine the way are.

Tell everyone to brush their hair and have a neat appearance.

The. End.
 
2020-07-23 5:00:03 PM  
Who wants to look at some Uggo every day on a zoom meeting?  Ewwww... put on some damn makeup!
 
2020-07-23 5:00:48 PM  
sunbeamwhdh.files.wordpress.comView Full Size

Is thisa what y'all want?

/Mugshot from a different greenlighted article
 
2020-07-23 5:01:06 PM  

whidbey: patowen: It's capitalism folks.  Sure, pass a "no-makeup" rule at your company.  Equitable and progressive.

But your competitors might not be so like-minded.  If they start making more profit because their sales people look attractive then your investors might want a re-think on your policies.

That's a nice way of justifying sexism.


You don't think sex sells?
 
2020-07-23 5:01:08 PM  

RodneyToady: I don't know if it is or isn't legal (probably depends on what country or state/province you're in), but I think it is sexist and should be illegal.


Illegal, or not, it's incredibly stupid.

I don't give a fark if she's wearing makeup, I only care if she can do the assigned work.

/exceptions for models and others who do put on makeup for a living
 
2020-07-23 5:01:14 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Leader O'Cola: No makeup? Fine.

Just dont ask men to shave or wear a suit or tie. Since it's all about standards of visual professional decorum.

Or ask all the employees to wear makeup, a suit and tie, and to shave their faces.  Yes even the old ladies with a mustache.  If it is universal, it isn't wrong.


Fine with me
 
2020-07-23 5:01:42 PM  

SirMadness: AmbassadorBooze: Dewey Fidalgo: Are the men being asked to wear make-up?   No?

Then yes, it is sexist.

You almost got to the solution.  Make the men wear make up too.  Problem solved.

As you insist:
[byrdie.com image 650x683]


The future will be glorious.
 
2020-07-23 5:01:50 PM  

patowen: whidbey: patowen: It's capitalism folks.  Sure, pass a "no-makeup" rule at your company.  Equitable and progressive.

But your competitors might not be so like-minded.  If they start making more profit because their sales people look attractive then your investors might want a re-think on your policies.

That's a nice way of justifying sexism.

You don't think sex sells?


You don't think you're being sexist?
 
Displayed 50 of 269 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.