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(LA Times)   Sierra Club has to come to terms that its 19th Century founder, John Muir, was a farking racist. Subby to anyone is in any way surprised that Muir was racist: Read more history   (latimes.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Sierra Club, John Muir, Yosemite National Park, United States, Native Americans in the United States, Black people, darker part of Muir, Indigenous peoples  
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997 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jul 2020 at 5:17 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-22 3:00:55 PM  
Subby, I think you wrote that headline wrong.

It should read "Sierra Club has come to terms with................."
 
2020-07-22 3:41:05 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: Subby, I think you wrote that headline wrong.

It should read "Sierra Club has come to terms with................."


No. Subby did fine. There is a lot of this sort of ignorant/arrogant human frailty with which to grapple. If by "come to terms with" we mean admit it, and stop farking doing it.
If there's going to be a future containing humans or other life forms that contemplate the past, they'll always call attentions to stupidities, atrocities, foibles and flaws.
 
2020-07-22 4:01:05 PM  
CANCEL THE SIERRA CLUB!
 
2020-07-22 4:21:02 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-22 4:34:14 PM  
His wife was smoking hot, though.

media-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-22 4:37:12 PM  
I was a member and activist for many years.   Got sick of the infighting at the State Chapter and the overall attitude that an environmental group has to behave like a bunch of moderate Democrats afraid to rock the boat.

Didn't know about Muir.
 
2020-07-22 4:38:59 PM  
That review found that Muir held bigoted views toward Indians ("he used such negative terms as 'dirty,' 'garrulous as jays,' 'Superstitious,' 'deadly,' 'lazy,' 'squirrelish,' and 'wife stealing' to describe California Indians,"

Any personal issues you'd like to talk about Johnny, you cuck?
 
2020-07-22 5:20:48 PM  
An old Scottish man in the 19th century was a racist asshole? Shocking. I'm shocked.
 
2020-07-22 5:21:21 PM  
The Sierra Club are Secret Society traitors and The Computer says WIPE THEM OUT!
 
2020-07-22 5:22:34 PM  

PainInTheASP: [Fark user image 850x677]


That caption could also work for the Founding Fathers. Aside from the generic "we're better than that " , as is made clear every day by loudmouth xenophibic people trying to drag us back to the 18th century .
 
2020-07-22 5:22:51 PM  
media1.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-22 5:23:55 PM  
 
2020-07-22 5:24:24 PM  
Sorry Subby; my knowledge of Muir is limited to information given by Lucasarts games.

Sam and Max Hit The Road - Who's John Muir?
Youtube 0YInfr0hm4A
 
2020-07-22 5:25:52 PM  
I dealt with Sierra Club on a few trail maintenance projects. They were always insufferable whiners.  They usually hiked out with a few extra fark you rocks in their daypacks.
 
2020-07-22 5:26:34 PM  
I mean... yeah?

Was someone under the impression that he was supposed to be famous for being a civil rights leader or some shiat where this would be a shocking reveal or hypocrisy or something?

He was a conservationist, that's the only thing he did that was remotely important and that's consistently and solely what he's remembered/honored for.  Take your idiotic, historically ignorant race-baiting and go fark yourself with it.
 
2020-07-22 5:26:57 PM  
My dad was born in '27 -- a Jewish kid in a community that was none too friendly to Jews.

He told me that back then everybody was a racist.   I believe it.   Just go back to look at movies and writings from that era.   And don't forget that when Barack Obama was born -- in the United States -- that it would have been illegal for his parents to sit together in many public settings.

Yeah -- we got a racist past.
 
2020-07-22 5:27:44 PM  
"Muir was depressingly conventional on matters of race, afflicted with a garden-variety Victorian white supremacism," writer Daniel Duane wrote in a Times opinion article in 2015. "But he was an otherwise harmless and decent man"

6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, but Hitler was kind to dogs.

/Just the whiplash in that sentence.
//And IIRC, Hitler tested cyanide pills on his dog in the bunker.
 
2020-07-22 5:28:43 PM  
Your great grandma was probably (if a WASP) a racist as well...
 
2020-07-22 5:30:39 PM  
Kuir was not only a racist, but a speciesist, an orderist, a phylumist, and a genusist.   Rumor has it he was also a kingdomist, a family man and a naturalist.
 
2020-07-22 5:32:21 PM  

iron de havilland: "Muir was depressingly conventional on matters of race, afflicted with a garden-variety Victorian white supremacism," writer Daniel Duane wrote in a Times opinion article in 2015. "But he was an otherwise harmless and decent man"

6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, but Hitler was kind to dogs.

/Just the whiplash in that sentence.
//And IIRC, Hitler tested cyanide pills on his dog in the bunker.


Having repellent beliefs which were normalized at the time isn't the same as personally engineering genocide.
 
2020-07-22 5:34:57 PM  

Gyrony: Your great grandma was probably (if a WASP) a racist as well...


Naw, on mums side, she married a white man. Kind of a big deal in that part of the Cherokee world at the time.
On the birth fathers side, I think she was busy dealing with vampires and wolves in Transylvania, but I will never know for sure.
 
2020-07-22 5:35:20 PM  

Fart_Machine: iron de havilland: "Muir was depressingly conventional on matters of race, afflicted with a garden-variety Victorian white supremacism," writer Daniel Duane wrote in a Times opinion article in 2015. "But he was an otherwise harmless and decent man"

6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, but Hitler was kind to dogs.

/Just the whiplash in that sentence.
//And IIRC, Hitler tested cyanide pills on his dog in the bunker.

Having repellent beliefs which were normalized at the time isn't the same as personally engineering genocide.


It's true, even the part of the sentence I snipped out makes it less bad. I just had a bit of an oh wow kinda overreaction to that bit.

/Besides, I stole the bit about Hitler being kind to dogs from a rant Steve Coogan did one time, anyway.
 
2020-07-22 5:35:58 PM  
One should be cognizant of from where you came from, it is an important part of your narrative.  What matters more is what you are doing now and where you are heading.
 
2020-07-22 5:36:16 PM  

whidbey: I was a member and activist for many years.   Got sick of the infighting at the State Chapter and the overall attitude that an environmental group has to behave like a bunch of moderate Democrats afraid to rock the boat.

Didn't know about Muir.


I hope you are not surprised though.

As a general rule.  Expect any 19th Century white man to be racist unless there is extreme evidence to the contrary.  And heck, even people who would have been considered anti-racist in the 19th Century don't hold up to modern standards.  And then their is sexism, homophobia, etc., etc.

Honor Muir for his work on conservation and acknowledge that he did things that were wrong.
 
2020-07-22 5:37:35 PM  
We still got Gifford Pinchot, right?
 
2020-07-22 5:38:08 PM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Has Margaret Sanger's new cancellation been brought up yet? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.​nytimes.com/2020/07/21/nyregion/planne​d-parenthood-margaret-sanger-eugenics.​amp.html


I realise it is something that is completely alien to conservatives because their emotional development stops around age 4, but it is possible for emotionally developed individuals to grow beyond the foibles and flaws of the people who came before them.
 
2020-07-22 5:39:28 PM  
Wait'll you find out the United States was founded by slavers.
 
2020-07-22 5:41:14 PM  

Gyrony: Your great grandma was probably (if a WASP) a racist as well...


As a matter of fact, I recently found a letter from my great grandmother to her daughter (my grandmother). She referred to her Portuguese neighbors as "a mixed and thieving people".

So, yeah. She was kind of awful like that.
 
2020-07-22 5:42:17 PM  
Say what you will about the man, he wrote a fantastic book about VW maintenance.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-22 5:43:18 PM  
Could we maybe deal with living racists instead of pissing on graves here?
 
2020-07-22 5:44:15 PM  
Who gives a shiat?

Why is that ONLY western countries (and the US in hyper-particular) spend so much time self-flagellating over the idea that GASP, societal viewpoints change over time?

In a couple hundred years, even our beloved little AOC is going to be considered a monster for something she says, does or thinks.
 
2020-07-22 5:45:15 PM  

Naido: That review found that Muir held bigoted views toward Indians ("he used such negative terms as 'dirty,' 'garrulous as jays,' 'Superstitious,' 'deadly,' 'lazy,' 'squirrelish,' and 'wife stealing' to describe California Indians,"

Any personal issues you'd like to talk about Johnny, you cuck?


HAH! I was thinking the same thing when I read that.  It seems like an oddly specific bigoted view, does it not?

/Did some garrulous California Indian whisper into his wife's ear???
 
2020-07-22 5:45:23 PM  

iron de havilland: "Muir was depressingly conventional on matters of race, afflicted with a garden-variety Victorian white supremacism," writer Daniel Duane wrote in a Times opinion article in 2015. "But he was an otherwise harmless and decent man"

6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, but Hitler was kind to dogs.

/Just the whiplash in that sentence.
//And IIRC, Hitler tested cyanide pills on his dog in the bunker.


11 million people were killed in the Holocaust. If it's not OK for Stormfront to deny victims, it's not OK for you to do it either.
 
2020-07-22 5:45:57 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: whidbey: I was a member and activist for many years.   Got sick of the infighting at the State Chapter and the overall attitude that an environmental group has to behave like a bunch of moderate Democrats afraid to rock the boat.

Didn't know about Muir.

I hope you are not surprised though.

As a general rule.  Expect any 19th Century white man to be racist unless there is extreme evidence to the contrary.  And heck, even people who would have been considered anti-racist in the 19th Century don't hold up to modern standards.  And then their is sexism, homophobia, etc., etc.

Honor Muir for his work on conservation and acknowledge that he did things that were wrong.


The same can be said for a good many scientists and engineers as well. A good example of this is William Shockley, one of the inventors of the transistor - the main device that comprises the bulk of electrical engineering discoveries since, and a huge racist to boot - he got destroyed on Tony Brown's show in the 1970s for it.

Bigotry isn't the sole domain of rednecks with Confederate flags or barely functional illiterates wearing Nazi flair. We as a society just like portraying racism in that fashion to assuage our guilt as a society.
 
2020-07-22 5:49:45 PM  
Magnanimous_J:
Why is that ONLY western countries (and the US in hyper-particular) spend so much time self-flagellating over the idea that GASP, societal viewpoints change over time?

We're a nation that still believes we can learn from past mistakes and change for the better.
 
2020-07-22 5:50:10 PM  
Critics also see a correlation between the emotional, biblical language of Muir's writings and the demographic makeup of national park visitors and the ranks of the largest environmental organizations - mainly aging, white Americans,"... writer Daniel Duane wrote in a Times opinion article in 2015.

Correlation? WTF is he talking about? You can't just pull this word out of your ass. Hack writers are voiding the word 'correlation' of meaning, much like what happened to 'literally'
 
2020-07-22 5:50:56 PM  

HighOnCraic: His wife was smoking hot, though.

[media-amazon.com image 385x576]


OMG, you ain't kiddin'! I guess I wasn't into girls yet when this show was on TV.
 
2020-07-22 5:51:20 PM  
News Flash!!! Just about every white person 150 years ago was a racist. Most of us still are to some degree. More news at 11.

/My great grandpa was celebrated by his family for being a viscous racist who bragged about killing any n****r or c**nk he ran across when nobody was around.
//everyone called him pukeface.
///nice guy.
 
2020-07-22 5:51:24 PM  

whidbey: I was a member and activist for many years.   Got sick of the infighting at the State Chapter and the overall attitude that an environmental group has to behave like a bunch of moderate Democrats afraid to rock the boat.

Didn't know about Muir.


I am not a member because of their anti-nuclear bullshiat

Dear Subby: nobody is surprised that Muir was a racist. He still is a great inspiration for environmentalism, and nobody has to stop saying he is.  He just wasn't a perfect person, and was a racist ass too.  It's possible to do both good and bad.
 
2020-07-22 5:52:58 PM  

Magnanimous_J: Who gives a shiat?

Why is that ONLY western countries (and the US in hyper-particular) spend so much time self-flagellating over the idea that GASP, societal viewpoints change over time?

In a couple hundred years, even our beloved little AOC is going to be considered a monster for something she says, does or thinks.


Yeah but you want that.   She bothers you.
 
2020-07-22 5:53:40 PM  

Magnanimous_J: Who gives a shiat?

Why is that ONLY western countries (and the US in hyper-particular) spend so much time self-flagellating over the idea that GASP, societal viewpoints change over time?

In a couple hundred years, even our beloved little AOC is going to be considered a monster for something she says, does or thinks.


She wouldn't come so bad if she didn't post all those 'crush' videos with those puppies.
 
2020-07-22 5:54:47 PM  

Naido: That review found that Muir held bigoted views toward Indians ("he used such negative terms as 'dirty,' 'garrulous as jays,' 'Superstitious,' 'deadly,' 'lazy,' 'squirrelish,' and 'wife stealing' to describe California Indians,"

Any personal issues you'd like to talk about Johnny, you cuck?


He's not too fond of dead, sea captains*, either.  Probably for the same reason...

*As opposed to Dead Sea captains.
 
2020-07-22 5:55:04 PM  

wearbear: HighOnCraic: His wife was smoking hot, though.

[media-amazon.com image 385x576]

OMG, you ain't kiddin'! I guess I wasn't into girls yet when this show was on TV.


Your cat looks like a vastly fatter version of my cat.
 
2020-07-22 5:55:31 PM  

Kazan: I am not a member because of their anti-nuclear bullshiat


That's something they got right, actually.

Being pro-nuke is an insult to the decades of activism against it.
 
2020-07-22 5:56:17 PM  

whidbey: Magnanimous_J: Who gives a shiat?

Why is that ONLY western countries (and the US in hyper-particular) spend so much time self-flagellating over the idea that GASP, societal viewpoints change over time?

In a couple hundred years, even our beloved little AOC is going to be considered a monster for something she says, does or thinks.

Yeah but you want that.   She bothers you.


I like her. She's just a little... unseasoned.

When she chased thousands of good-paying Amazon jobs out of NY, it became pretty clear to me that she doesn't have both hands on the wheel just yet.

She's very young. Plenty of time.
 
2020-07-22 5:57:03 PM  

whidbey: Being pro-nuke is an insult to the decades of activism against it.


Oh good lord. You're one of those?
 
2020-07-22 5:58:03 PM  

Magnanimous_J: I like her. She's just a little... unseasoned.


Don't care.   She's literally one of the few people in Congress saying and doing the things this country needs.

Don't get the hate, the fear, the intimidation.   She and others on the Squad are the future of this country.
 
2020-07-22 5:59:26 PM  
19th century man held 19th century views. Magic lantern show at 11.
 
2020-07-22 5:59:37 PM  

Magnanimous_J: whidbey: Being pro-nuke is an insult to the decades of activism against it.

Oh good lord. You're one of those?


It's not an insult.

Why someone in their 30s would be so right of center like you is puzzling, though.

Is it the money?
 
2020-07-22 6:06:00 PM  
Everyone prior to about 1970 was at least one of racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, transphobic, or bigoted about religion.

Some people still did things we should celebrate in spite of their bigotry and prejudice. Some institutions have done immense good and were founded by people who were products of their time.

We need to be able to judge people by the standards of their day, and by the legacy they gave us.
 
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