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(LA Times)   I'm sorry sir, but it seems you may have fraudulently paid off the balance of your Capital One card, and not just the vig   (latimes.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Credit card, Credit card fraud, Fraud, Erik Castro, Identity theft, credit card balance, Bank of America, manner of fraud  
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2899 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 Jul 2020 at 12:53 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-22 1:06:33 AM  
It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.
 
2020-07-22 1:14:35 AM  
IN LIVING COLOR - EQUITY EXPRESS
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zez
2020-07-22 1:25:39 AM  
Castro told me he's never missed a card payment but started carrying a hefty balance after plunking down thousands of dollars for season tickets to Las Vegas Raiders games.
Then the coronavirus hit, his work hours were reduced, and he and his wife decided they needed to tighten their belts by making smaller monthly card payments.
Before too long, Castro was carrying a debt load on his plastic of $14,300. That changed a few weeks ago after he refinanced his mortgage and used some home equity to pay off the balance.
The next day, Castro said, he received a call from Cap One saying a fraud investigation had been opened.

This story sounds familiar for some reason
 
2020-07-22 1:38:24 AM  
Ah yes. Fraudsters paying off credit cards. Thusly depriving the bank of their interest, and their god-given right to commit usury. We cannot allow the debt-slaves to be debt-free.
 
2020-07-22 1:42:02 AM  

madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.


I work with small businesses to help them meet EU AML and KYC standards, and a $14k transaction does need to be verified, so there should have been questions.

But Capital One knows how to do that, and how to make the laws and regulations understood by the cardholder, without freezing the account or any other delays. There is no excuse for their online payment system not informing the cardholder of requirements as the payment was being processed. Capital One is just really, really bad at customer service and communications.
 
2020-07-22 1:42:07 AM  
There's a requirement to register transactions over $10k amongst the plebiscite. It's supposed to prevent money laundering, but it also results in snags like this.
 
2020-07-22 1:43:54 AM  

zez: Castro told me he's never missed a card payment but started carrying a hefty balance after plunking down thousands of dollars for season tickets to Las Vegas Raiders games.
Then the coronavirus hit, his work hours were reduced, and he and his wife decided they needed to tighten their belts by making smaller monthly card payments.
Before too long, Castro was carrying a debt load on his plastic of $14,300. That changed a few weeks ago after he refinanced his mortgage and used some home equity to pay off the balance.
The next day, Castro said, he received a call from Cap One saying a fraud investigation had been opened.
This story sounds familiar for some reason


That story is just a roller coaster of bad choices.
 
2020-07-22 1:49:00 AM  

wildcardjack: There's a requirement to register transactions over $10k amongst the plebiscite. It's supposed to prevent money laundering, but it also results in snags like this.


Meanwhile international criminals, criminal syndicates, and criminal syndicates masquerading as nation states continue to store tens of billions of dollars in real estate in American cities and nobody is doing anything about it.
 
2020-07-22 2:03:35 AM  
There may be some who wonder why he doesn't just cancel his Capital One card and get a new credit card. The answer to that, he told me, is the roughly 190,000 miles he and his wife have accrued on the card for a future trip.  "If I cancel, I lose them," Castro said.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-22 2:21:56 AM  

wildcardjack: There's a requirement to register transactions over $10k amongst the plebiscite. It's supposed to prevent money laundering, but it also results in snags like this.


It happens when your name is Castro, perhaps...

Because not only did they fail to do a routine back office check that the BOA account matched the customer, they demanded his bank records be FAXed in....and then, basically, decided they were probably forgeries...

An account with my white bread Anglo name probably doesn't trip the extra "is he a drug dealer race" flag...
 
2020-07-22 2:53:12 AM  
His account should have been flagged, and a mental health evaluation initiated, after purchasing season tickets to the Las Vegas f*cking Raiders.
 
2020-07-22 4:58:26 AM  
Sometimes I touch my naughty bits not for fun but just to verify that they're still attached.

This bizarro world is getting a bit tiresome.
 
2020-07-22 5:30:19 AM  

wejash: wildcardjack: There's a requirement to register transactions over $10k amongst the plebiscite. It's supposed to prevent money laundering, but it also results in snags like this.

It happens when your name is Castro, perhaps...

Because not only did they fail to do a routine back office check that the BOA account matched the customer, they demanded his bank records be FAXed in....and then, basically, decided they were probably forgeries...

An account with my white bread Anglo name probably doesn't trip the extra "is he a drug dealer race" flag...


Naw, when it comes to money bankers are all about the numbers, live and breathe.  While they may be personally prejudiced or not, banks thrive or die by following said numbers.  It's like the insurance business - they may be pricks, but they're pricks by the statistics, not because they care about who the fark you are.  Large transaction = a check it flag even if your name is Beauregard Whitborough.  Pretty sure KB202 has it right here - it's a normal thing to check, but Capital One handled it stupidly.  Coulda just told the dude "Sure, we just have to verify it, law on over $10k transactions - sorry we know it sucks but we don't obey the law then we can't be a bank.  We'll straighten it out right quick."
 
2020-07-22 5:38:28 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: wejash: wildcardjack: There's a requirement to register transactions over $10k amongst the plebiscite. It's supposed to prevent money laundering, but it also results in snags like this.

It happens when your name is Castro, perhaps...

Because not only did they fail to do a routine back office check that the BOA account matched the customer, they demanded his bank records be FAXed in....and then, basically, decided they were probably forgeries...

An account with my white bread Anglo name probably doesn't trip the extra "is he a drug dealer race" flag...

Naw, when it comes to money bankers are all about the numbers, live and breathe.  While they may be personally prejudiced or not, banks thrive or die by following said numbers.  It's like the insurance business - they may be pricks, but they're pricks by the statistics, not because they care about who the fark you are.  Large transaction = a check it flag even if your name is Beauregard Whitborough.  Pretty sure KB202 has it right here - it's a normal thing to check, but Capital One handled it stupidly.  Coulda just told the dude "Sure, we just have to verify it, law on over $10k transactions - sorry we know it sucks but we don't obey the law then we can't be a bank.  We'll straighten it out right quick."


Occurs to me after I posted of course, but thinking about it, I realized I would not at all surprised if some dusty old server in a Fed computer room somewhere noted it.  I'm talking "Stuff left over from the era we were seriously worried about Cuba."  Back then, they sure as hell sit up and blink at any large transaction with the name "Castro" attached heh.

/if it exists, it's probably not even being monitored or paid attention to, and hasn't for ages
//but it would not surprise me one damn bit if there was one
///governments never throw anything away, intelligence agencies are government squared-level hoarders
 
2020-07-22 5:58:47 AM  
Yes that gang of international credit card payoffers it is a very crafty lucrative business.

Step 1. Pay off CC debt of someone
Step 2.
Step 3. Profit

I think there might be a step involving underwear but I forget

/hoping mine is paid off by January
 
2020-07-22 7:02:21 AM  
Data harvesting is getting very aggressive. They not only want to know what you spend your money on but where it comes from.
 
2020-07-22 7:04:35 AM  
While they are a big fish, they aren't the only one. I would have thanked them for treating me as a criminal and canceled or moved any Capitol One account I had.
 
2020-07-22 7:22:46 AM  
Due diligence with financial entities can get weird.  The underwriters for our mortgage loan got really nervous about two "large" transactions (neither over $20k). One was a check from an insurance company, the other was a purchase at Carmax.  What could that be!?!  I wrote a memorandum detailing my wife's not at fault crash, how it was detailed a total loss and the payout received.  A few days later they call and say "we still need an explanation for the transaction at Carmax."

I wrote a 1 sentence memorandum. "We purchased a replacement vehicle from Carmax."
 
2020-07-22 7:34:25 AM  
"It was embarrassing," Castro said.

Castro said. "I said they were making me feel like a criminal."


What a girly-man.
 
2020-07-22 8:06:43 AM  

madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.


That was pretty much my take. $14K is a bit much to clear in one go for most users. It's barely chump change for some others though.
 
2020-07-22 8:12:41 AM  

erik-k: wildcardjack: There's a requirement to register transactions over $10k amongst the plebiscite. It's supposed to prevent money laundering, but it also results in snags like this.

Meanwhile international criminals, criminal syndicates, and criminal syndicates masquerading as nation states continue to store tens of billions of dollars in real estate in American cities and nobody is doing anything about it.


The trick is to be consistent. A 10k transaction when you usually never go over a couple hundred is suspicious. If you regularly move thousands of dolllars around no one notices.
 
2020-07-22 8:14:08 AM  
At least they don't require an in person visit with the proof.
 
2020-07-22 8:22:10 AM  
Fark Capital One.

When I was in the military, I tried to update my address on their website.

No APO options. I thought it was a glitch.

I call them at some ungodly hour due to the time difference. They can't help me. They had no way of letting me update my address.

I told them to cancel my card and I made my final payment.

Capital One missed out on probably $5,000 in interest over the last 14 years. I went with Discover and haven't looked back.
 
2020-07-22 8:39:09 AM  
I'm suspicious of anyone who charges $14,000 to watch Derek Carr play.
 
2020-07-22 8:51:43 AM  

madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.


This.  If you want to pay down your CC balance by $14k, you make two $7k payments one day apart.  Stay below the reporting threshold.
 
2020-07-22 8:54:27 AM  

wildcardjack: There's a requirement to register transactions over $10k amongst the plebiscite. It's supposed to prevent money laundering, but it also results in snags like this.


The 10k restriction is probably more about uncle Sam wanting his dime fle taxes.
 
2020-07-22 8:54:43 AM  
I have a suspicion that this "freeze" is due to idiotic procedure and the common situation wherein someone accidentallies an extra 0 at the end during payment.

AML is hardly an issue with an established customer and money from a wire. $14k is just too piddly to be the problem directly.
 
2020-07-22 9:11:21 AM  
I don't give Capital One any slack on any part of this. A lot of you seem to be granting them some by suggesting they couldn't just sit back because of the payment amount.

Maybe the $10k transaction monitoring limit applies to credit card accounts too - I thought it was just for bank accounts. That still catches most transactions, and would have in this case. But I don't think the reporting ever requires being a pain in anyone's ass. The transaction is reported to the feds, and that's the end of the bank's responsibility. But we wouldn't know for sure which accounts require it as the requirement is non-disruptive by design. I've made credit card payments over $10k irregularly but probably 20 times in my life - the last time was a couple weeks ago. 4-figure payments in full are standard for me, and like Castro, done by ACH transfer from an account that rarely changes. I've never gotten a phone call or any followup about any of these.

TFA is also excessively sympathetic because of the "fraud prevention" efforts by Cap One and other banks. fark that. I hate that shiat so much. I had a couple cards stupidly locked on vacations and a handful of times had to reset all my auto payments because of a reissued card. The fraud isn't my fault or my problem, it's the bank's. So any inconvenience whatsoever is entirely for their benefit and I get very ornery when it's suggested I should be kissing their ass for their tireless efforts to protect me. I never direct my frustration to a call operator, but I must be a strange call when they've decided to reissue my card. I think the last time posed changing the account number as a question and my "No, what's the point?" response was not in the script.
 
2020-07-22 9:17:34 AM  

hubiestubert: madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.

That was pretty much my take. $14K is a bit much to clear in one go for most users. It's barely chump change for some others though.


I agree, but as others mentioned above. This should have been ironed-out by the business before the client even knew what was going on. I've made payments between accounts greater than $10k and my bank never needed to drag me into it.
 
2020-07-22 9:26:19 AM  

yusyusyus: I have a suspicion that this "freeze" is due to idiotic procedure and the common situation wherein someone accidentallies an extra 0 at the end during payment.

AML is hardly an issue with an established customer and money from a wire. $14k is just too piddly to be the problem directly.


There is a whole lot more to AML than additional documentation on deposits greater than $10k to DDAs. The account holder probably tripped over a few suspicious behaviors and instead of having an analyst sort it out that morning with the client history they decided to drag their customer into their internal machinations.
 
2020-07-22 9:30:53 AM  

madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.


Perhaps. But I've made credit card payments that size and larger many times in my life -- to Capital One, no less -- and never heard a peep.
 
2020-07-22 9:35:48 AM  
What's the vig?
 
2020-07-22 9:40:08 AM  
BMO requires id to make a cash truck payment @ $500
 
2020-07-22 9:44:10 AM  

wage0048: madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.

This.  If you want to pay down your CC balance by $14k, you make two $7k payments one day apart.  Stay below the reporting threshold.


That'll still be flagged as suspicious. It's called "structuring payments".

/have to take AML training even though I'm in IT
 
2020-07-22 9:55:13 AM  

Thosw: wage0048: madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.

This.  If you want to pay down your CC balance by $14k, you make two $7k payments one day apart.  Stay below the reporting threshold.

That'll still be flagged as suspicious. It's called "structuring payments".

/have to take AML training even though I'm in IT


Yeah, structuring payments is exactly what NOT to do. There is nothing illegal about a $14k payment; it just requires some paperwork, maybe. Two $7k payments to avoid said paperwork is potentially criminal. It's why Dennis Hastert is in prison. (Granted, you probably won't be prosecuted as harshly if you're not covering up an underlying crime.)
 
2020-07-22 10:01:54 AM  
... Although, the more I think about it, the more I doubt that AML has anything to do with this. The problems with huge cash withdrawals from bank accounts are that the money becomes untraceable and nobody knows what it's being used for. Neither concern applies to a credit card payment. Capital One just has something in its algorithm that flags out-of-the-ordinary transactions and it kinda farked up in this instance.
 
2020-07-22 10:03:06 AM  

SirEattonHogg: What's the vig?


img.discogs.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-22 10:27:20 AM  

SirEattonHogg: What's the vig?


Vigorish (also known as juice, under-juice, the cut, the take, the margin, the house edgeor simply the vig) is the fee charged by a bookmaker (or bookie) for accepting a gambler's wager. In American English it can also refer to the interest owed a loanshark in consideration for credit.
 
2020-07-22 10:31:53 AM  

zamboni: SirEattonHogg: What's the vig?

[img.discogs.com image 300x281]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-22 10:34:50 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: zamboni: SirEattonHogg: What's the vig?

[img.discogs.com image 300x281]

[Fark user image image 325x155]


The Stig's less talented Chinese ripoff cousin?
 
2020-07-22 11:22:15 AM  

Super Chronic: madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.

Perhaps. But I've made credit card payments that size and larger many times in my life -- to Capital One, no less -- and never heard a peep.


The AML processes that banks manage don't necessarily need to include the client. If you are making cash deposits at the bank, yes you get a form. If you have a courier deposit cash daily these are traced as well, except you aren't directly hassled. It is all about mapping risk.
 
2020-07-22 11:38:11 AM  
"...he refinanced his mortgage and used some home equity to pay off the balance."

"He" is an idiot.

Reason:  Rule #1 of debt restructuring - NEVER swap unsecured for secured debt.
 
2020-07-22 11:38:12 AM  

Dick Gozinya: SirEattonHogg: What's the vig?

Vigorish (also known as juice, under-juice, the cut, the take, the margin, the house edgeor simply the vig) is the fee charged by a bookmaker (or bookie) for accepting a gambler's wager. In American English it can also refer to the interest owed a loanshark in consideration for credit.


Fark user imageView Full Size


What's the vig?
 
2020-07-22 11:41:49 AM  

wage0048: madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.

This.  If you want to pay down your CC balance by $14k, you make two $7k payments one day apart.  Stay below the reporting threshold.


No, structuring payments to avoid the reporting threshold is considered more suspicious than making one above it.
 
2020-07-22 11:44:33 AM  

Kim Jong Scott: "...he refinanced his mortgage and used some home equity to pay off the balance."

"He" is an idiot.

Reason:  Rule #1 of debt restructuring - NEVER swap unsecured for secured debt.


If all things are equal, sure.  However, swapping high interest debt (credit cards can change 20%+) with low interest debt (refis are below 3% right now) is a good thing.
 
2020-07-22 12:24:28 PM  

wage0048: madgonad: It is possible that the payment (being over $10k) may have triggered some of their anti-money laundering logic. There also might have been some OFAC-related purchases on the card recently which cleared a cursory review, so there are a number of legitimate reasons to question what is going on here.

This.  If you want to pay down your CC balance by $14k, you make two $7k payments one day apart.  Stay below the reporting threshold.


Yeah, structuring isn't a good idea.
 
2020-07-22 12:34:18 PM  

Kim Jong Scott: "...he refinanced his mortgage and used some home equity to pay off the balance."

"He" is an idiot.

Reason:  Rule #1 of debt restructuring - NEVER swap unsecured for secured debt.


In general it isn't a good thing, but it absolutely can be the right thing to do.

If this is a one time event (ie he doesn't normally carry significant credit card debt, this is just a one off large purchase) when he has sufficient resources to pay it off reliably while greatly reducing the interest rate that doesn't sound like an issue.

Yeah Capital One sucks. I was in India and had by card frozen and they left a voicemail saying to call this number 24 hours a day. When I phone I wait an hour and finally get to a person "no you have to phone this other number open 9-5 Eastern" and wait the better part of another hour to get someone to unlock it. TD Bank, I called at the same time (they were both locked by the same online transaction) and had the credit card working again within ten minutes.
 
2020-07-22 2:27:23 PM  
Capital One has this amazing thing about watching for what I tip.  Seems like any time I go above 25% I get a "did you mean to tip this much?" query.  I only have Capital One cards because they acquired who I originally got them through.  When I pay them off later this year, I am probably going to cancel.  My credit is way better now than when I got these cards, I'm sure I can get better interest.
 
2020-07-22 3:30:23 PM  

Izunbacol: Due diligence with financial entities can get weird.  The underwriters for our mortgage loan got really nervous about two "large" transactions (neither over $20k). One was a check from an insurance company, the other was a purchase at Carmax.  What could that be!?!  I wrote a memorandum detailing my wife's not at fault crash, how it was detailed a total loss and the payout received.  A few days later they call and say "we still need an explanation for the transaction at Carmax."

I wrote a 1 sentence memorandum. "We purchased a replacement vehicle from Carmax."


You're talking about apples when the OP story is oranges. If you were loaning someone $XXXXXXXX of your money wouldn't you want to know that it was going to someone who had a reasonable likelihood of paying it back to you?

Yes, I'm a mortgage banker.
 
2020-07-22 4:10:15 PM  

erik-k: wildcardjack: There's a requirement to register transactions over $10k amongst the plebiscite. It's supposed to prevent money laundering, but it also results in snags like this.

Meanwhile international criminals, criminal syndicates, and criminal syndicates masquerading as nation states continue to store tens of billions of dollars in real estate in American cities and nobody is doing anything about it.


Yeah, but let's find time and money to pay the NSA, and NSA "pretenders," to harass American protesters who write graffiti on public buildings! Oh shiat, there goes a white Wendy's franchise owner's building! Shoot rubber bullets at the protesters! Someone's business, that isn't owned by any of the folks in the neighborhood, could have gotten hurt!

White collar crime is the most accurate description of the most despicable crimes ever committed, by the most privileged people ever to inhabit the 21st century. People lose their jobs, their homes, their cars over that shiat, every day. Yet those same victims were mad when Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the anthem, and said American law enforcement was a joke.

When white people are equally prosecuted for not just street crimes, but all crimes, financial and otherwise, we will see change. But it's never gonna happen. Y'all like being on top. Whom will you look down on if you couldn't treat the poor and minorities like shiat?

Keep your farking money under a mattress, and bury your gold in the back yard. Give up the dreams of retiring off your investments. The America you once knew is gone. And to paraphrase Henry Hill, we're all now average nobodies. They get spaghetti and marinara sauce. We get "egg noodles and ketchup." We get to live the rest of our lives "like a schnook." And it's exactly what we deserve.
 
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