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(Canberra Times)   Australian journalist: We are watching the collapse of America in real time. Let's not be like them   (canberratimes.com.au) divider line
    More: Obvious, Communism, Democracy, Soviet Union, Soviet dissidents, Andrei Sakharov, Charles King, energy policy, Ronald Reagan  
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3387 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jul 2020 at 8:50 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-19 4:32:59 PM  
"Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."
 
2020-07-19 4:37:12 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: "Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."


Final sentence in TFA: "Whatever happens, Australia must not go any further in the direction the US has gone in the past few decades."
 
2020-07-19 4:42:57 PM  
Where the US goes, Australia will follow about 10-20 years later. Probably once "Australian values" start getting in the way of foreign investors and those sweet, sweet natural resources
 
2020-07-19 4:43:28 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: "Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."


As opposed to the US and our exports of pork to our Chinese Masters?
 
2020-07-19 4:45:17 PM  

NeedlesslyCanadian: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: "Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."

Final sentence in TFA: "Whatever happens, Australia must not go any further in the direction the US has gone in the past few decades."


It's not like the Australian government doesn't sell out the country in the name of personal gain
 
2020-07-19 4:59:45 PM  
"Budweiser." Australian for America collapsing on itself.
 
2020-07-19 5:54:16 PM  
Am I correct that New Zealand is basically Australia's Canada?
 
2020-07-19 5:58:27 PM  

wejash: Am I correct that New Zealand is basically Australia's Canada?


(Some parts of) Aust are NZ's Texas
 
2020-07-19 6:53:56 PM  
C'mon guys. All these comments are attacking the messenger instead of answering the criticism (yeah I joined in the kicking for the lulz)

This is straight out of Trump's playbook.

The point of the criticism is that the whole world is looking at US with shock and horror.

We already knew that America had a crazy healthcare 'system', that not enough people cared enough to do anything about your absurd gun laws, that education dominated by far right Bible bashers, that obvious electoral cheating by GOP was tolerable, that too many people were badly paid  etc etc.

The Corona virus has exaggerated all these problems, and yet so many people, from Pres down have reacted by denying science, denying facts, denying reality.

And it's shon a spotlight on the obvious fact that there are far better ways of doing things than the way US does. America isn't Number One in any of the good metrics, and 2020 is getting peoples' attention to benchmarking against other democracies.
 
2020-07-19 7:01:39 PM  
Where did Rupert Murdoch hail from?
 
2020-07-19 7:11:26 PM  
Nah, it's not a collapse.  Just a little...well, I guess we fell of the wagon for a bit. We'll get better.  We just need a little time to sort some things out.
 
2020-07-19 7:16:31 PM  
Legalizing the bribery of Congress combined with legalizing theft by police is working out really badly, especially when combined with the legalizing of utter stupidity.
 
2020-07-19 7:18:46 PM  

fifthofzen: Where did Rupert Murdoch hail from?


Fifth Avenue?
 
2020-07-19 7:26:35 PM  
One of the more interesting ideas this article brings up is that electing Biden is really only the start. Things won't magically change and be puppy dog tails and unicorn farts. The real work of making sure this never happens again will be started.
 
2020-07-19 7:55:38 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: "Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."


Australia has actually taken a fairly antagonistic stance against China regarding an investigation into investigating the early months of the spread of Covid-19. China has reacted harshly but Australia has not noticeably backed down.

There exist strong pro-China sentiments within the Australian mining industry that are entangled with profits and jobs. There are many who of course are willing to compromise to save their livelihood. But over-all, Australians have not buckled under on this. Nobody in Australia is ignorant of how playing nice with China would benefit their economy but so far most Australians are not willing to sell their souls on this. It's been impressive. There remains things for Australians to be embarrassed by, especially with respect to racist attitudes. But they don't seem inclined to kneel down and suck China off.
 
2020-07-19 8:54:17 PM  
s3-prod.adage.comView Full Size


That's the cover of Der Spiegel.  The German equivalent of Time Magazine.

The headline translates as "The Fire Devil.  A president puts his country to the flames."
 
2020-07-19 8:56:22 PM  
America went through a really tough decade in the 30s with mass unemployment and almost flipping to fascism. And all that after 1918-20.

But the average person in the 30s had no clue what was going on, and most just wanted a job. We are not there yet but could be by Christmas.
 
2020-07-19 8:57:42 PM  

wejash: Am I correct that New Zealand is basically Australia's Canada?


Pretty much.
 
2020-07-19 8:57:58 PM  

fifthofzen: Where did Rupert Murdoch hail from?


And also Adolf Hitler!
 
2020-07-19 9:02:19 PM  
Conservatism has used up all tolerance.

No more.

Ever.
 
2020-07-19 9:04:21 PM  

FrancoFile: [s3-prod.adage.com image 850x566]

That's the cover of Der Spiegel.  The German equivalent of Time Magazine.

The headline translates as "The Fire Devil.  A president puts his country to the flames."


And they're experts!!
 
2020-07-19 9:04:23 PM  
Damn it Australia,
You sent us Rupert Murdoch.
 
2020-07-19 9:04:54 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: "Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."


Don't shoot the messenger.
 
2020-07-19 9:07:24 PM  
I got really sad reading this.
 
stk
2020-07-19 9:07:27 PM  
"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"

Yeats knew what was up

Blake's refrain from Auguries of Innocence has been sticking with me lately too:

"A dog starved at his master's gate
Predicts the ruin of the state"
 
2020-07-19 9:08:36 PM  

mjjt: C'mon guys. All these comments are attacking the messenger instead of answering the criticism (yeah I joined in the kicking for the lulz)

This is straight out of Trump's playbook.

The point of the criticism is that the whole world is looking at US with shock and horror.

We already knew that America had a crazy healthcare 'system', that not enough people cared enough to do anything about your absurd gun laws, that education dominated by far right Bible bashers, that obvious electoral cheating by GOP was tolerable, that too many people were badly paid  etc etc.

The Corona virus has exaggerated all these problems, and yet so many people, from Pres down have reacted by denying science, denying facts, denying reality.

And it's shon a spotlight on the obvious fact that there are far better ways of doing things than the way US does. America isn't Number One in any of the good metrics, and 2020 is getting peoples' attention to benchmarking against other democracies.


/ we  thought we where a  strong oak table. Yet, we are a faux wood table and the varnish previously faded, is quickly coming off in the last 3 years.
 
2020-07-19 9:08:42 PM  

mjjt: C'mon guys. All these comments are attacking the messenger instead of answering the criticism (yeah I joined in the kicking for the lulz)

This is straight out of Trump's playbook.

The point of the criticism is that the whole world is looking at US with shock and horror.

We already knew that America had a crazy healthcare 'system', that not enough people cared enough to do anything about your absurd gun laws, that education dominated by far right Bible bashers, that obvious electoral cheating by GOP was tolerable, that too many people were badly paid  etc etc.

The Corona virus has exaggerated all these problems, and yet so many people, from Pres down have reacted by denying science, denying facts, denying reality.

And it's shon a spotlight on the obvious fact that there are far better ways of doing things than the way US does. America isn't Number One in any of the good metrics, and 2020 is getting peoples' attention to benchmarking against other democracies.



Agreed, except for the part about education.

There are pockets of Bible-dominated lunacy passing for schooling in some parts of the country, but public schools (especially in good states) are still secular, and the university system is really good.
 
2020-07-19 9:08:52 PM  
I have faith that America will come out stronger after this.

I also had faith that they were going to coherently tie up the plot of Lost.
 
2020-07-19 9:10:32 PM  

SoupGuru: One of the more interesting ideas this article brings up is that electing Biden is really only the start. Things won't magically change and be puppy dog tails and unicorn farts. The real work of making sure this never happens again will be started.


That's what I and many others have been saying.

"President != Trump" isn't a one-line fix. Our country is not BETTER for having Trump out of power. It is merely slowing its descent.

Things like actual living wages, universal healthcare, and cheap higher ed would actually help us go places. Biden isn't in favor of any of those things. Soooo instead we're just going to go back to that comfortable, dystopian "normal" where we don't lose sleep over the threat of nuclear war via Twitter, but instead pretend that our wage-slave pay and our trickle-up economy don't exist because they are merely background noise we can ignore.
 
2020-07-19 9:10:49 PM  

NetOwl: mjjt: C'mon guys. All these comments are attacking the messenger instead of answering the criticism (yeah I joined in the kicking for the lulz)

This is straight out of Trump's playbook.

The point of the criticism is that the whole world is looking at US with shock and horror.

We already knew that America had a crazy healthcare 'system', that not enough people cared enough to do anything about your absurd gun laws, that education dominated by far right Bible bashers, that obvious electoral cheating by GOP was tolerable, that too many people were badly paid  etc etc.

The Corona virus has exaggerated all these problems, and yet so many people, from Pres down have reacted by denying science, denying facts, denying reality.

And it's shon a spotlight on the obvious fact that there are far better ways of doing things than the way US does. America isn't Number One in any of the good metrics, and 2020 is getting peoples' attention to benchmarking against other democracies.


Agreed, except for the part about education.

There are pockets of Bible-dominated lunacy passing for schooling in some parts of the country, but public schools (especially in good states) are still secular, and the university system is really good.


If incredibly, ludicrously overpriced compared to many other countries.
 
2020-07-19 9:11:48 PM  
Electing Biden isn't going to save us, either. This is the guy who went out of his way to sell the American people on his ability to work with Republicans as a virtue, and Democratic primary voters decided he was the best possible choice for President. This country is going to stay on the decline so long as Democrats in power continue to pretend that everything is still normal despite everything to the contrary, and we've merely hit a rough patch in our Democracy.
 
2020-07-19 9:11:50 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-19 9:12:35 PM  
If we punish the Republican Party and drive them into irrelevance in November, we can lick our wounds and rebound from all of this.
 
2020-07-19 9:13:14 PM  
LOL.  One man's opinion.  We can come out of this.  I know we can (well, I HOPE we can).
 
2020-07-19 9:16:41 PM  

FrancoFile: [s3-prod.adage.com image 850x566]

That's the cover of Der Spiegel.  The German equivalent of Time Magazine.

The headline translates as "The Fire Devil.  A president puts his country to the flames."


More specifically it translates as "The Pyromaniac. A president sets fire to his country."
 
2020-07-19 9:16:52 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: "Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."


Fark user imageView Full Size



https://oec.world/en/profile/country/​a​us/

Which curiously doesn't include Education services 'exported'. The best number I can find for that is another $36bn, which is about, ah, half of their other service exports.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019​/​11/australias-37-6b-international-stud​ent-export-con/

Which I'm sure has absolutely zero impact on the rhetoric coming out of Australia, it's universities, politicians, or media outlets.

They are 1,000% a clean-room, independent democracy.

///Imagine being able to crush an economy just by telling people they can't go to school there anymore.
//Canada not much better off
/Wanna buy some Oil? Maybe a light truck or three?
 
2020-07-19 9:17:27 PM  

dv-ous: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: "Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."

As opposed to the US and our exports of pork to our Chinese Masters?


That's quite a bit different, actually.
 
2020-07-19 9:18:32 PM  

bluejeansonfire: SoupGuru: One of the more interesting ideas this article brings up is that electing Biden is really only the start. Things won't magically change and be puppy dog tails and unicorn farts. The real work of making sure this never happens again will be started.

That's what I and many others have been saying.

"President != Trump" isn't a one-line fix. Our country is not BETTER for having Trump out of power. It is merely slowing its descent.

Things like actual living wages, universal healthcare, and cheap higher ed would actually help us go places. Biden isn't in favor of any of those things. Soooo instead we're just going to go back to that comfortable, dystopian "normal" where we don't lose sleep over the threat of nuclear war via Twitter, but instead pretend that our wage-slave pay and our trickle-up economy don't exist because they are merely background noise we can ignore.


No.
The three policy items you mention are fine, but they have nothing to do with what the Australian here identified as America's problem.
America's problem is that about 1/3 of people trust no one, 1/3 trust whatever the Republicans say, and 1/3 trust whatever the Republicans say.
As long as the two parties compete as "good sports," it's possible for the government as an institution of those parties to have the trust of about 2/3 of people.  But when they fail to compete as good sports, the resulting government either earns the trust of 1/3 of the people, or none.

Its our political process itself that tears us apart.  Not the policies it tries to pursue.
 
2020-07-19 9:19:23 PM  

SoupGuru: One of the more interesting ideas this article brings up is that electing Biden is really only the start. Things won't magically change and be puppy dog tails and unicorn farts. The real work of making sure this never happens again will be started.


The work to make sure this doesn't happen again. Lol. Good one.

A giant bag of special interest money for every Congresscritter and Senator says otherwise.
 
2020-07-19 9:20:19 PM  
Trump is weakening America relative to other countries and he is weakening America absolutely.  But just because we aren't as strong as we were doesn't mean we aren't still strong.

But American democracy is designed to be robust.    He won't destroy it.

I think the near future will find America on a more equal footing with other democracies, as all of them compete with quasi-communist China and with the Russian oligarchy.
 
2020-07-19 9:20:27 PM  

FrancoFile: [s3-prod.adage.com image 850x566]

That's the cover of Der Spiegel.  The German equivalent of Time Magazine.

The headline translates as "The Fire Devil.  A president puts his country to the flames."


If both sides were remotely competent at running a country then diametric opposition to the other would be bad, but not fatal. When one side prides itself on proving government is bad, led by a fool, you're in deep trouble.
 
2020-07-19 9:20:31 PM  
The disease infecting us came from that desolate former prison colony.  Laugh it up while you throw a shrimp on the barbie and try to avoid penis snakes.
 
2020-07-19 9:20:51 PM  

GentDirkly: bluejeansonfire: SoupGuru: One of the more interesting ideas this article brings up is that electing Biden is really only the start. Things won't magically change and be puppy dog tails and unicorn farts. The real work of making sure this never happens again will be started.

That's what I and many others have been saying.

"President != Trump" isn't a one-line fix. Our country is not BETTER for having Trump out of power. It is merely slowing its descent.

Things like actual living wages, universal healthcare, and cheap higher ed would actually help us go places. Biden isn't in favor of any of those things. Soooo instead we're just going to go back to that comfortable, dystopian "normal" where we don't lose sleep over the threat of nuclear war via Twitter, but instead pretend that our wage-slave pay and our trickle-up economy don't exist because they are merely background noise we can ignore.

No.
The three policy items you mention are fine, but they have nothing to do with what the Australian here identified as America's problem.
America's problem is that about 1/3 of people trust no one, 1/3 trust whatever the Republicans say, and 1/3 trust whatever the Republicans say.
As long as the two parties compete as "good sports," it's possible for the government as an institution of those parties to have the trust of about 2/3 of people.  But when they fail to compete as good sports, the resulting government either earns the trust of 1/3 of the people, or none.

Its our political process itself that tears us apart.  Not the policies it tries to pursue.


The political process and the policies are inseparable, since the latter is the explicit objective of the former
 
2020-07-19 9:21:13 PM  

PainInTheASP: Nah, it's not a collapse.  Just a little...well, I guess we fell of the wagon for a bit. We'll get better.  We just need a little time to sort some things out.


The US definitely needs a 12 step program. 

Taking inventory is going to be brutal.
 
2020-07-19 9:21:25 PM  

NetOwl: mjjt: C'mon guys. All these comments are attacking the messenger instead of answering the criticism (yeah I joined in the kicking for the lulz)

This is straight out of Trump's playbook.

The point of the criticism is that the whole world is looking at US with shock and horror.

We already knew that America had a crazy healthcare 'system', that not enough people cared enough to do anything about your absurd gun laws, that education dominated by far right Bible bashers, that obvious electoral cheating by GOP was tolerable, that too many people were badly paid  etc etc.

The Corona virus has exaggerated all these problems, and yet so many people, from Pres down have reacted by denying science, denying facts, denying reality.

And it's shon a spotlight on the obvious fact that there are far better ways of doing things than the way US does. America isn't Number One in any of the good metrics, and 2020 is getting peoples' attention to benchmarking against other democracies.


Agreed, except for the part about education.

There are pockets of Bible-dominated lunacy passing for schooling in some parts of the country, but public schools (especially in good states) are still secular, and the university system is really good.


Americans enter university two years behind their international counterparts and pay tens of thousands of dollars to finish just slightly ahead.

Education is beyond farked in the States
 
2020-07-19 9:22:38 PM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-19 9:22:52 PM  

Krieghund: But American democracy is designed to be robust.    He won't destroy it.


If people keep believing this, then there will be no reason for them to rise up to defend it.

I do believe Trump and his folks are counting on that.
 
2020-07-19 9:23:54 PM  

dv-ous: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: "Wrote atop a pile of coal being exported to our Chinese Masters."

As opposed to the US and our exports of pork to our Chinese Masters?


Only because they own the farking pork plants that have been forced to reopen.*

Smithfield Foods, Inc., is a pork producer and food processing company based in Smithfield, Virginia, in the United States, and a wholly owned subsidiary of WH Group of China.

*Excluding the largest producer, JBS, which is owned by Brasil.

Which begs the question: Why would the president deem meat packing plants owned by China and Brasil "essential"?
 
2020-07-19 9:26:54 PM  
While I value their opinion, you know shiat has really hit the fan when Duterte says "let's not be like the US"(his more aggressive response still hasn't helped save him from the pitfalls right wing populists are facing, yet he still has the high ground over Trump on this issue, which is horrifying)
 
2020-07-19 9:27:05 PM  

mjjt: C'mon guys. All these comments are attacking the messenger instead of answering the criticism (yeah I joined in the kicking for the lulz)

This is straight out of Trump's playbook.

The point of the criticism is that the whole world is looking at US with shock and horror.

We already knew that America had a crazy healthcare 'system', that not enough people cared enough to do anything about your absurd gun laws, that education dominated by far right Bible bashers, that obvious electoral cheating by GOP was tolerable, that too many people were badly paid  etc etc.

The Corona virus has exaggerated all these problems, and yet so many people, from Pres down have reacted by denying science, denying facts, denying reality.

And it's shon a spotlight on the obvious fact that there are far better ways of doing things than the way US does. America isn't Number One in any of the good metrics, and 2020 is getting peoples' attention to benchmarking against other democracies.


Sorry.  You're a foreigner, and we don't listen to the unexceptional.  So, I say good day to you, Sir.

I said good day!
 
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