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(CNN)   UK Court rules that girl who ran away to join ISIS as a young teen should be allowed to return to the UK and have her citizenship restored, because really, is joining ISIS worse than say, becoming a Belieber or a K-pop groupie?   (edition.cnn.com) divider line
    More: Followup, United Kingdom, Law, Court, British nationality law, Human rights organization Liberty, Government, UK Home Office spokesperson, alleged crimes  
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913 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2020 at 3:31 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-16 12:25:45 PM  
Long as she has something she can't take off.
 
2020-07-16 12:40:53 PM  
A very strong argument in her favor.
 
2020-07-16 2:42:08 PM  
"Ms. Begum has never had a fair opportunity to give her side of the story," he said.

Her side of the story is that she voluntarily left a democratic state to support a brutal terrorist organization.  If ISIS hadn't gotten the shiat kicked out of it, she almost certainly wouldn't be asking to return.

Now, one can say "Well, everyone makes mistakes", and that's true enough, but some mistakes are so great that you only get to make them once.  This is such a mistake.  She's no longer a British citizen because of her actions.

Let her serve as an example pour encourager les autres.
 
2020-07-16 3:33:52 PM  

dittybopper: "Ms. Begum has never had a fair opportunity to give her side of the story," he said.

Her side of the story is that she voluntarily left a democratic state to support a brutal terrorist organization.  If ISIS hadn't gotten the shiat kicked out of it, she almost certainly wouldn't be asking to return.

Now, one can say "Well, everyone makes mistakes", and that's true enough, but some mistakes are so great that you only get to make them once.  This is such a mistake.  She's no longer a British citizen because of her actions.

Let her serve as an example pour encourager les autres.


I don't disagree.
But even the United States, in my opinion, is light on traitors. It perplexes me.
 
2020-07-16 3:33:55 PM  
If they revoke your citizenship, they can't try you for treason.
 
2020-07-16 3:34:16 PM  
To answer your question, subby
Fark user imageView Full Size

Anyone with half a brain knows Isis is the better choice here.
 
2020-07-16 3:35:57 PM  
The judge ruled she can have her day in court, made no mention of restoring her citizenship.
 
2020-07-16 3:36:29 PM  
Meh.  The Republicans have done more damage to American and ISIS, and we allow them to be Americans.  Offer her a cabinet role in the current administration and the UK ambassadorship.
 
2020-07-16 3:38:26 PM  
After what the Kpop fans did to Trump's Tulsa rally, I'm kinda impressed with them, even if they do have tragic taste in music.
 
2020-07-16 3:39:08 PM  
If she was American Obama would have just had her and her children assassinated.
 
2020-07-16 3:40:10 PM  

TheReject: If she was American Obama would have just had her and her children assassinated.


+1 to Obama
 
2020-07-16 3:40:50 PM  

dittybopper: "Ms. Begum has never had a fair opportunity to give her side of the story," he said.

Her side of the story is that she voluntarily left a democratic state to support a brutal terrorist organization.  If ISIS hadn't gotten the shiat kicked out of it, she almost certainly wouldn't be asking to return.

Now, one can say "Well, everyone makes mistakes", and that's true enough, but some mistakes are so great that you only get to make them once.  This is such a mistake.  She's no longer a British citizen because of her actions.

Let her serve as an example pour encourager les autres.


You're assuming teenagers think before doing things, and I don't think that's correct. It was a rebellion that went very wrong. Kids that age (she was 15) are going to rebel, and they usually have a bad case of "it can't happen to me" as well.

Instead, let her back, but with strings attached. She's on a permanent watch list, and has to do public speaking to teens on how bad her experience was. Think Mom and Dad are authoritative? THIS is authoritative. As for punishment, imagine having to repeatedly talk about your probable rape in front of hundreds of strangers.
 
2020-07-16 3:40:59 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: The judge ruled she can have her day in court, made no mention of restoring her citizenship.


came for this, leaving satisfied.
 
2020-07-16 3:43:30 PM  

TheReject: If she was American Obama would have just had her and her children assassinated.


riding in car wit Al-Qaeda's chief bomb-maker in Africa after recording a series of videos renouncing your citizenship and declaring war on America is the very definition of Play Stupid games, win stupid prizes
 
2020-07-16 3:43:42 PM  
Kids do stoopid things alla time, why not now?
 
2020-07-16 3:45:16 PM  
This is a demonstrated case of the parents failing to instill values and morals in the individual beyond organized religion. I'd keep her in Syria in the camps because a) she's a true believer and never expressed regret or remorse for her actions, and b) just wants to leave Syria because living in the UK, with reliable electricity, water and an abundance of food, is much easier.
/only allow her to leave if they send her, her parents and relatives to gitmo..
//had family members in Syria that got massacred by western Daesh terrorists...
 
2020-07-16 3:46:04 PM  

waxbeans: dittybopper: "Ms. Begum has never had a fair opportunity to give her side of the story," he said.

Her side of the story is that she voluntarily left a democratic state to support a brutal terrorist organization.  If ISIS hadn't gotten the shiat kicked out of it, she almost certainly wouldn't be asking to return.

Now, one can say "Well, everyone makes mistakes", and that's true enough, but some mistakes are so great that you only get to make them once.  This is such a mistake.  She's no longer a British citizen because of her actions.

Let her serve as an example pour encourager les autres.

I don't disagree.
But even the United States, in my opinion, is light on traitors. It perplexes me.


Well you have to be the "right" kind of traitor, then it's okay. For example, selling out your country for money to you and your businesses as long as it's a "reformed communist" country (now Oligarchy/Kleptocracy) like Russia, completely a-ok.

Being a British actor who created a work of fiction that satirized Hitler and attacked fascism, completely evil according to Joe McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover when they went after Charlie Chaplin!
 
2020-07-16 3:46:12 PM  
You're misreading that pretty severely, subby.

She's not being "allowed to return" in the sense of becoming British again.  She was previously denied a visa to physically enter the geographical bounds of the UK, because she's a citizen of a foreign nation hostile to the UK.

The effect of this decision being reversed is that she's now temporarily permitted to physically enter the UK for the sole purpose of appearing in court and filing the paperwork to request immigration into the UK as a foreign national, since she's currently blocked from even applying to immigrate for obvious reasons.

Her citizenship being restored is... yeah, it's just flat-out not going to happen.  Best case for her is that she's allowed to apply for tourist visas to occasionally visit her family, and even that's kind of a stretch goal.
 
2020-07-16 3:48:13 PM  

NotARocketScientist: dittybopper: "Ms. Begum has never had a fair opportunity to give her side of the story," he said.

Her side of the story is that she voluntarily left a democratic state to support a brutal terrorist organization.  If ISIS hadn't gotten the shiat kicked out of it, she almost certainly wouldn't be asking to return.

Now, one can say "Well, everyone makes mistakes", and that's true enough, but some mistakes are so great that you only get to make them once.  This is such a mistake.  She's no longer a British citizen because of her actions.

Let her serve as an example pour encourager les autres.

You're assuming teenagers think before doing things, and I don't think that's correct. It was a rebellion that went very wrong. Kids that age (she was 15) are going to rebel, and they usually have a bad case of "it can't happen to me" as well.

Instead, let her back, but with strings attached. She's on a permanent watch list, and has to do public speaking to teens on how bad her experience was. Think Mom and Dad are authoritative? THIS is authoritative. As for punishment, imagine having to repeatedly talk about your probable rape in front of hundreds of strangers.


This.  15.   Unlike Sally-Anne Jones who joined in 2013, when she was in her 40s.   She, along with her tweener child, are believed dead, in 2017.
 
2020-07-16 3:49:42 PM  
Yes, subby, it's far worse.  Like voting UKIP or Republican.
 
2020-07-16 3:50:53 PM  
Father Daughter Ad - SNL
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/Posting just because
 
2020-07-16 3:52:23 PM  

NotARocketScientist: You're assuming teenagers think before doing things, and I don't think that's correct. It was a rebellion that went very wrong. Kids that age (she was 15) are going to rebel, and they usually have a bad case of "it can't happen to me" as well.


I would submit that you have to do a fair amount of thinking to sneak out of a country and make your way into a war zone so you can fark your terrorist internet boyfriend.
 
2020-07-16 3:52:36 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: The judge ruled she can have her day in court, made no mention of restoring her citizenship.


Yeah, subby didn't even attempt to skim the article, just jumped to conclusions.

I'm not saying the UK should let her come back, but there could very well be legal justification for her to be allowed to attend her hearing.
 
2020-07-16 3:52:57 PM  
So in U.S we consider confederate statues and flag as symbols of traitors, and even worse, supporting slavery. But when a young girl goes off to fight ISIS at the age of 15ish, a terrorist organisation that has been know, and she definitely known that at that time, to kill or rape innocent people.

But since she's a female she should be given choices without consequences?

IMO, she should be given two choices: tried as a traitor or permanently revoke her UK citizenship. The good news being that the UK has one less religious nut-job on their hands.
 
2020-07-16 3:56:28 PM  

TheReject: If she was American Obama would have just had her and her children assassinated.


And nothing of value would be lost.
 
2020-07-16 3:57:19 PM  
ftfa:' ...had her British citizenship stripped by Home Secretary Sajid Javid on February 19, 2019, after she was found in a northern Syrian refugee camp.
She challenged that decision but on June 13, 2019, the government refused her application...'

That should have been the end of it.

/ proposed new rule: Any judges that let terrorist sympathizers back into the country get to have them move in next door to the buildings where the judges live.
 
2020-07-16 3:59:19 PM  

nanim: ftfa:' ...had her British citizenship stripped by Home Secretary Sajid Javid on February 19, 2019, after she was found in a northern Syrian refugee camp.
She challenged that decision but on June 13, 2019, the government refused her application...'

That should have been the end of it.

/ proposed new rule: Any judges that let terrorist sympathizers back into the country get to have them move in next door to the buildings where the judges live.


We certainly don't want any judges that follow the law.
 
2020-07-16 4:08:54 PM  

TheReject: If she was American Obama would have just had her and her children assassinated.


And yet he doesn't get any respect for the stupid idiot cuck red hats.
 
2020-07-16 4:09:58 PM  

NotARocketScientist: dittybopper: "Ms. Begum has never had a fair opportunity to give her side of the story," he said.

Her side of the story is that she voluntarily left a democratic state to support a brutal terrorist organization.  If ISIS hadn't gotten the shiat kicked out of it, she almost certainly wouldn't be asking to return.

Now, one can say "Well, everyone makes mistakes", and that's true enough, but some mistakes are so great that you only get to make them once.  This is such a mistake.  She's no longer a British citizen because of her actions.

Let her serve as an example pour encourager les autres.

You're assuming teenagers think before doing things, and I don't think that's correct. It was a rebellion that went very wrong. Kids that age (she was 15) are going to rebel, and they usually have a bad case of "it can't happen to me" as well.

Instead, let her back, but with strings attached. She's on a permanent watch list, and has to do public speaking to teens on how bad her experience was. Think Mom and Dad are authoritative? THIS is authoritative. As for punishment, imagine having to repeatedly talk about your probable rape in front of hundreds of strangers.


Those young Nazis weren't thinking, they were just rebelling by screaming death to (insert_group_here) and then killing them with glee. Now I might have the wrong gal but...

I'm not a death penalty person. I don't even think we should try to stop Nazis from speaking, because I know they'll lose any debate since they follow the bankrupt ideology of cowards. She took it a step further than that, especially if this is the one that gleefully posted videos hating on the UK / West and there was some insinuation she ratted out girls trying to not get pregnant, and other insinuations of violence on her part. She made her choice, she gleefully became an ISIS/ISIL citizen, a  war wife, and only cared when she got caught after ISIS/ISIL was pounded into dust.

She willingly joined, and swore fealty to, a terrorist group that built a country. Just because that country was short-lived doesn't mean her oath doesn't apply anymore. She should rot in prison where she was captured until they deign to let her go, and she can become a person without a home country.
 
yms
2020-07-16 4:10:34 PM  
The issue for me is the moment she sets foot in the UK she is staying here regardless of any outcome.

fark her, no sympathy at all.
 
2020-07-16 4:11:19 PM  
warhistoryonline.comView Full Size
warhistoryonline.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-16 4:22:51 PM  

dittybopper: "Ms. Begum has never had a fair opportunity to give her side of the story," he said.

Her side of the story is that she voluntarily left a democratic state to support a brutal terrorist organization.  If ISIS hadn't gotten the shiat kicked out of it, she almost certainly wouldn't be asking to return.

Now, one can say "Well, everyone makes mistakes", and that's true enough, but some mistakes are so great that you only get to make them once.  This is such a mistake.  She's no longer a British citizen because of her actions.

Let her serve as an example pour encourager les autres


So what, throw that dead squirrel into Bangladesh's yard? Bullshiat. She was born in England and raised in London. It's an abdication of responsibility, nothing more. She left Britain to support a terrorist organization and was a member of ISIL's morality police. There are plenty of crimes to charge her with. Lock her up and throw away the key, definitely. Preferably forever. But it's England's responsibility, and they want to pawn it off on Bangladesh. Granted, they have said she'll be executed if she gets sent there, and that is emotionally satisfying, but it really isn't their farking problem.
 
2020-07-16 4:24:38 PM  
Restore her citizenship and then try her for all her crimes. I don't know how British law works but in the US she would just end up in prison for decades to life.

Stripping her citizenship doesn't allow for any justice for her crimes.

She is a perfect example of why I have a sort of bug up my ass about the Abrahamic religions in particular. They seem to produce a special sort of violence when taken seriously. Maybe it just seems that way because they are so widespread, but they are also widespread because they have a history of violence. Judaism is an outlier but the recent history of Israel and the thought process there seems to be the same as the other guys - non-believers can get farked, all your shiat is actually my shiat because god says so, we're the real victims here... It's the same script with the page of "convert or die" replaced with "you can't be one of us unless you meet these conditions".
 
2020-07-16 4:28:06 PM  

vudukungfu: Long as she has something she can't take off.


like a noose

Give her the Lord Haw Haw club necktie.
 
2020-07-16 4:31:19 PM  

Jim_Callahan: You're misreading that pretty severely, subby.

She's not being "allowed to return" in the sense of becoming British again.  She was previously denied a visa to physically enter the geographical bounds of the UK, because she's a citizen of a foreign nation hostile to the UK.

The effect of this decision being reversed is that she's now temporarily permitted to physically enter the UK for the sole purpose of appearing in court and filing the paperwork to request immigration into the UK as a foreign national, since she's currently blocked from even applying to immigrate for obvious reasons.

Her citizenship being restored is... yeah, it's just flat-out not going to happen.  Best case for her is that she's allowed to apply for tourist visas to occasionally visit her family, and even that's kind of a stretch goal.


Britain is not legally allowed to render a person stateless. They claim she has or can get Bangladeshi citizenship, Bangladesh says that's false. Possibly she was eligible for citizenship, but apparently never applied for it, and now she's a known terrorist. I'm not a Bangladeshi lawyer, but I suspect being a known terrorist is an instant no on citizenship applications even if someone would otherwise qualify.

Bangladesh has said she'll be tried and probably executed if she does get sent there, so stretch goals of any sort are right off the table, forget about a tourist visa.
 
2020-07-16 4:37:12 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: NotARocketScientist: You're assuming teenagers think before doing things, and I don't think that's correct. It was a rebellion that went very wrong. Kids that age (she was 15) are going to rebel, and they usually have a bad case of "it can't happen to me" as well.

I would submit that you have to do a fair amount of thinking to sneak out of a country and make your way into a war zone so you can fark your terrorist internet boyfriend.


And she kept working for ISIL after she turned 18, and she hasn't expressed a bit of remorse.
 
2020-07-16 4:41:49 PM  

adamatari: Judaism is an outlier


7They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man...They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab... 14Moses was angry with the officers of the army-the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds-who returned from the battle.

15"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16"They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord's people. 17Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
 
2020-07-16 4:45:06 PM  
Per the UN Human Rights High Commissioner (Emphasis mine):
---
The Right to a Nationality

The right to a nationality is a fundamental human right. It implies the right of each individual to acquire, change and retain a nationality.  International human rights law provides that the right of States to decide who their nationals are is not absolute and, in particular, States must comply with their human rights obligations concerning the granting and loss of nationality.
---
If one were born the UK, raised in the UK, and became radicalized in the UK, just because one has some Bangladeshi blood doesn't mean the UK gets to wipe their hands of the mess.

Try her.  Convict her.  Sentence her. Punish her.

Do better with the rest of your children.
 
2020-07-16 4:50:51 PM  
She's done no where near the damage a Tory or brexiter has done to this country.
If she's broke the law, bring her home, try her and sentence her
 
2020-07-16 4:51:24 PM  
I'd let an ISIS runaway back in before any Beliebers. [shudder]
 
2020-07-16 4:55:11 PM  
Pretty generous there with your shouts of "traitor2 and " she should have known better". She was 15 ffs! Why is okay to be groomed for sex at 15 but not be groomed by a terrorist organisation? Be consistent with your prejudice...wait...that's what redneck farking gammons are...inconsistent.
 
2020-07-16 4:55:42 PM  

jsmilky: [warhistoryonline.com image 518x640][warhistoryonline.com image 800x419]


FYI - those are examples of borderline mistreatment of 'Collaborator Girls' after the Nazi withdrawal from occupied Europe (I think those are French). The accusation against them is based upon them benefiting from their relationship with German troops as well as acknowledgement that they were known to betray the French Resistance. I won't say I approve of this, but these women are only having their heads shaved. Some were tarred and feathered (which I believe goes over the line). It was a terrible war.
 
2020-07-16 5:14:43 PM  

Sir Paul: If one were born the UK, raised in the UK, and became radicalized in the UK, just because one has some Bangladeshi blood doesn't mean the UK gets to wipe their hands of the mess.


Implying jus soli, which the UK doesn't have.
 
2020-07-16 5:36:22 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: The judge ruled she can have her day in court, made no mention of restoring her citizenship.


Once she's back she will claim asylum and we'll be stuck with her forever.
 
2020-07-16 5:37:45 PM  

NotARocketScientist: She's on a permanent watch list, and has to do public speaking to teens on how bad her experience was.


I have seen nothing which suggests that she has changed her mind or that she regrets any of her actions.
 
2020-07-16 5:38:23 PM  

madgonad: jsmilky: [warhistoryonline.com image 518x640][warhistoryonline.com image 800x419]

FYI - those are examples of borderline mistreatment of 'Collaborator Girls' after the Nazi withdrawal from occupied Europe (I think those are French). The accusation against them is based upon them benefiting from their relationship with German troops as well as acknowledgement that they were known to betray the French Resistance. I won't say I approve of this, but these women are only having their heads shaved. Some were tarred and feathered (which I believe goes over the line). It was a terrible war.


Traitors should be put to death.
 
2020-07-16 5:41:03 PM  

madgonad: jsmilky: [warhistoryonline.com image 518x640][warhistoryonline.com image 800x419]

FYI - those are examples of borderline mistreatment of 'Collaborator Girls' after the Nazi withdrawal from occupied Europe (I think those are French). The accusation against them is based upon them benefiting from their relationship with German troops as well as acknowledgement that they were known to betray the French Resistance. I won't say I approve of this, but these women are only having their heads shaved. Some were tarred and feathered (which I believe goes over the line). It was a terrible war.


They're lucky. Male collaborators were shot.
 
2020-07-16 5:41:30 PM  

alistairrobb: Why is okay to be groomed for sex at 15 but not be groomed by a terrorist organisation?


Being groomed to be a victim of abuse is different from being groomed to be a murderous criminal. I mean, what a stupid farking question. And she was still a willing participant into adulthood, there's no indication that anything was ever done to her against her will, and in fact she hasn't expressed a hint of remorse.
 
2020-07-16 5:45:08 PM  

Jim_Callahan: She's not being "allowed to return" in the sense of becoming British again.  She was previously denied a visa to physically enter the geographical bounds of the UK, because she's a citizen of a foreign nation hostile to the UK.


She isn't a citizen of anywhere. We revoked her citizenship on the grounds that she was entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship through her mother but Bangladesh, seeing to reason to add an active and committed fascist to their population, have refused to put her on the books and have said that if she even tries to enter the country they will prosecute her for terrorism and seek the death penalty.

And so she rots in a camp in Syria, a powerful lesson to other young people who feel inspired by videos of beheadings and yearn to serve in the morality police.
 
2020-07-16 5:54:10 PM  

Trocadero: If they revoke your citizenship, they can't try you for treason.


There were some Scotsmen who tried to make that argument, as I recall.  It didn't work.
 
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