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(Fox 43 Pennsylvania)   Minimum wage can't get you a two-bedroom apartment in any state   (fox43.com) divider line
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173 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 16 Jul 2020 at 10:40 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-16 8:49:19 AM  
Minimum wage can't get you much. Study hard in school to earn any degree beyond high school so you can earn more than minimum wage.
 
2020-07-16 9:00:23 AM  

kdawg7736: Minimum wage can't get you much. Study hard in school to earn any degree beyond high school so you can earn more than minimum wage.


And for the people who aren't in a position to do that?

Or those who's bootstraps were deliberately weakened through decades of intentional neglect
 
Xai [TotalFark] [BareFark]
2020-07-16 9:54:07 AM  
Come to the UK then where minimum wage can't get you a studio apartment in any county. That's more to do with insanely high property prices as opposed to low wages though.
 
2020-07-16 10:25:32 AM  
If you do 40 hours a week of productive work, you shouldn't have to worry about housing or food.
 
2020-07-16 10:47:17 AM  

Xai: Come to the UK then where minimum wage can't get you a studio apartment in any county. That's more to do with insanely high property prices as opposed to low wages though.


This is America.  We got BOTH!
 
2020-07-16 10:50:16 AM  
Yeah, 30 years ago, it didn't get you a two bedroom apartment wither, subby. You had a roommate, or maybe even two, possibly 3. So I don't know why you think this is something even remotely close to being a "new" development.
 
2020-07-16 10:50:36 AM  

kdawg7736: Minimum wage can't get you much. Study hard in school to earn any degree beyond high school so you can earn more than minimum wage.


And if everybody did that then degrees would be devalued and you'd have people with degrees working minimum wage jobs. The real problem is that a good portion of Americans think that poor people don't deserve things like a home or food because of social Darwinism.
 
2020-07-16 10:53:56 AM  

Mikey1969: Yeah, 30 years ago, it didn't get you a two bedroom apartment wither, subby. You had a roommate, or maybe even two, possibly 3. So I don't know why you think this is something even remotely close to being a "new" development.


And not long before that, it was not atypical for single males working menial jobs to live in a boarding house with shared bathrooms and kitchens.
 
2020-07-16 11:05:05 AM  

SoupGuru: If you do 40 hours a week of productive work, you shouldn't have to worry about housing, food, medical care or education.

 
2020-07-16 11:05:50 AM  
Well then they should buy a house why live in an apartment anyway?
 
2020-07-16 11:37:48 AM  

Geotpf: Mikey1969: Yeah, 30 years ago, it didn't get you a two bedroom apartment wither, subby. You had a roommate, or maybe even two, possibly 3. So I don't know why you think this is something even remotely close to being a "new" development.

And not long before that, it was not atypical for single males working menial jobs to live in a boarding house with shared bathrooms and kitchens.


Minimum wage has always sucked. It's good when you're 16 and still living at home, but that's about it.
 
2020-07-16 11:38:39 AM  
America isn't the richest country in the world. It's a middling-to-poor country that serves as a tax haven for some hyper-rich people.
 
2020-07-16 11:42:57 AM  

kdawg7736: Minimum wage can't get you much. Study hard in school to earn any degree beyond high school so you can earn more than minimum wage.


This is tacitly acknowledging that the minimum is too low and that a certain % of the population will be stuck in this economic hell. You're just telling individuals if they want to escape this crummy situation, they can. It says nothing about addressing the fact that other people will still be stuck there.
 
2020-07-16 11:44:55 AM  
massbudget.orgView Full Size


inflationdata.comView Full Size


People saying "it's always been this bad" are innumerate. The minimum wage is 25% lower in real terms than it was in the '60s. Housing is twice as expensive in real terms than it was in the '60s.

And you can say "oh well just get a good education", but college costs have tripled (or quadrupled, if you count living costs).

I don't know why people refuse to accept that things have gotten worse for a lot of people. It like breaks some sort of narrative of eternal progress in their brain or something.
 
2020-07-16 11:57:08 AM  

pkjun: [massbudget.org image 688x416]

[inflationdata.com image 850x616]

People saying "it's always been this bad" are innumerate. The minimum wage is 25% lower in real terms than it was in the '60s. Housing is twice as expensive in real terms than it was in the '60s.

And you can say "oh well just get a good education", but college costs have tripled (or quadrupled, if you count living costs).

I don't know why people refuse to accept that things have gotten worse for a lot of people. It like breaks some sort of narrative of eternal progress in their brain or something.


Well, my main argument is that a large part of the solution is to build lots of additional apartment units.

Note, not houses; in most areas where more housing is needed all available land is already built on and the only way to build more is to build up, which zoning laws and red tape making it expensive or impossible to do.

https://www.thecity.nyc/2020/7/12/213​2​1886/nyc-developers-construction-inequ​ality-coronavirus

In New York, new building permits have basically been frozen since the virus hit.  Plus, you get comments like this (from the above article):

But Councilmember Jimmy Van Bramer (D-Queens), who was one of the leaders in the fight against the Amazon project, opposes the development proposal, suggesting it will drive up local rents and is too big for the neighborhood. "There are far too many luxury apartments included and the proposed affordability is simply unacceptable," he wrote in a letter late last week to groups opposing the development, QNS.com reported.

No, building more housing units causes prices to drop, not increase.  Any additional supply (at any pricing level) causes prices overall to drop.
 
2020-07-16 12:05:30 PM  

kdawg7736: Minimum wage can't get you much. Study hard in school to earn any degree beyond high school so you can earn more than minimum wage.


Right, because people who don't do that don't deserve to have a decent place to sleep at night.

That busboy who clears your table is only worthy of sleeping on a dirty old mattress in a room with 6 other people, and the clerk in a convenience store should be able to subsist on out of date stock he gleans from the dumpster out back.

Never mind that your daily life depends on those jobs having people to do them, they don't deserve anything better than the scraps from your table, if you deign to give them to them.
 
2020-07-16 12:06:55 PM  

Geotpf: pkjun: [massbudget.org image 688x416]

[inflationdata.com image 850x616]

People saying "it's always been this bad" are innumerate. The minimum wage is 25% lower in real terms than it was in the '60s. Housing is twice as expensive in real terms than it was in the '60s.

And you can say "oh well just get a good education", but college costs have tripled (or quadrupled, if you count living costs).

I don't know why people refuse to accept that things have gotten worse for a lot of people. It like breaks some sort of narrative of eternal progress in their brain or something.

Well, my main argument is that a large part of the solution is to build lots of additional apartment units.

Note, not houses; in most areas where more housing is needed all available land is already built on and the only way to build more is to build up, which zoning laws and red tape making it expensive or impossible to do.

https://www.thecity.nyc/2020/7/12/2132​1886/nyc-developers-construction-inequ​ality-coronavirus

In New York, new building permits have basically been frozen since the virus hit.  Plus, you get comments like this (from the above article):

But Councilmember Jimmy Van Bramer (D-Queens), who was one of the leaders in the fight against the Amazon project, opposes the development proposal, suggesting it will drive up local rents and is too big for the neighborhood. "There are far too many luxury apartments included and the proposed affordability is simply unacceptable," he wrote in a letter late last week to groups opposing the development, QNS.com reported.

No, building more housing units causes prices to drop, not increase.  Any additional supply (at any pricing level) causes prices overall to drop.


110% agreed. Lefties complaining that new "luxury apartments" drive rents up are making an argument akin to "don't add on any side dishes, they're all small so we'll all get less food."

Well, no, you're still increasing the total supply. Even if there are more efficient ways to increase that supply, building any luxury units increases supply. So what if only a big-shot lawyer can afford it? That means Mr Big Shot spends his million bucks on that flat instead of on the one you wanted to buy, so you don't have to spend a million and one bucks outbidding him on it.
 
2020-07-16 12:13:54 PM  
Minimum wage, AS DESIGNED was NEVER intended to give you a "living wage".  It was intended, to give young kids the opportunity to learn how to work, how to be responsible, how to interact with adults in a
business environment, to give them "work experience" while still LIVING AT HOME WITH THEIR PARENTS,
who would be responsible for food, clothes, rent, utilities etc.
Now, if you had taken the opportunities this country has and squandered this, and, had either skipped/dropped
out of school, partied, had children you cannot afford while in junior high to high school, etc...and are now
out on your own, in your 30's or above, and a minimum wage job is ALL you are "qualified" to do, that's not
on the business owner, to "give" you a "livable wage".  Continue to jack up the minimum wage for no/low
skill jobs, will see even more automation, which will destroy what minimum wages jobs are available.
 
2020-07-16 12:17:34 PM  

kdawg7736: Minimum wage can't get you much. Study hard in school to earn any degree beyond high school so you can earn more than minimum wage.


I tried that. It didn't work. Granted in my case, it is likely related to being an autistic person.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mos​t​-college-grads-with-autism-cant-find-j​obs-this-group-is-fixing-that-2017-04-​10-5881421
 
2020-07-16 12:27:55 PM  

p51d007: Minimum wage, AS DESIGNED was NEVER intended to give you a "living wage".  It was intended, to give young kids the opportunity to learn how to work, how to be responsible, how to interact with adults in a
business environment, to give them "work experience" while still LIVING AT HOME WITH THEIR PARENTS,
who would be responsible for food, clothes, rent, utilities etc.


No it wasn't.  It was designed to prevent white adults from having to compete with black adults for jobs.  Congress was very clear about this during debate.
 
2020-07-16 12:33:01 PM  

p51d007: Minimum wage, AS DESIGNED was NEVER intended to give you a "living wage".  It was intended, to give young kids the opportunity to learn how to work, how to be responsible, how to interact with adults in a
business environment, to give them "work experience" while still LIVING AT HOME WITH THEIR PARENTS,


"Our economy was originally and deliberately designed to deny independence and self-sufficiency to millions of people who perform essential jobs" is not actually true, but it is extremely damning of America that you assume it was. It's all the more damning that you assume it was by way of defending it.
 
2020-07-16 1:12:20 PM  
I see we're still pretending that the intent of the minimum wage was not a living wage.  The minimum wage was meant to be a living wage.  It was, in fact, "By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level. I mean the wages of a decent living".  It didn't matter your age or gender, race, etc., if you were working, you deserved a living wage - then and now.

People say things like, well, burger flippers are kids who don't need the money.  Burger flippers aren't kids anymore and, even if they were kids, it would help their families immeasurably if there was an additional living wage in the home.  It would be, perhaps, the only living wage in a dysfunctional home.  Then people will say things like, well, do you want burger flippers to earn the same as your EMTs?  Well, I wouldn't have a problem with that, though I think that you could pay EMTs a bit more on top of that.

The idea that some people don't deserve the wages to survive because of their age or capacity or because it is the only job they can get is barbaric and disgusting. Fight for everyone to earn more, not to make some earn less because it isn't a high status job.
 
2020-07-16 1:12:21 PM  

47 is the new 42: kdawg7736: Minimum wage can't get you much. Study hard in school to earn any degree beyond high school so you can earn more than minimum wage.

I tried that. It didn't work. Granted in my case, it is likely related to being an autistic person.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/most​-college-grads-with-autism-cant-find-j​obs-this-group-is-fixing-that-2017-04-​10-5881421


I feel your pain, man. High-functioning for me. It took me a little while to get a permanent, full-time job after college graduation. Currently work in government.
 
2020-07-16 1:31:41 PM  
ichef.bbci.co.ukView Full Size


Something big happened in 1976.  Oh yes, Mao died and they embraced capitalism (but won't admit it)
 
2020-07-16 2:19:24 PM  

gadian: I see we're still pretending that the intent of the minimum wage was not a living wage.  The minimum wage was meant to be a living wage.  It was, in fact, "By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level. I mean the wages of a decent living".  It didn't matter your age or gender, race, etc., if you were working, you deserved a living wage - then and now.


https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/file​s​/WHD/legacy/files/FairLaborStandAct.pd​f

No, the intent was to prevent starvation wages.  From the first page of the law above (the first Federal minimum wage in 1938), which explains the reasoning of Congress to pass it:

(a) The Congress finds that the existence, in industries engaged in commerce or in the production of goods for commerce, of labor conditions detrimental to the maintenance of the minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency, and general well-being of workers... [does a bunch of bad things]

Not a "decent" standard, not a "living wage"; merely a "minimum" standard.

Now, one can argue that such should be stronger than that, but that was never the original intent.
 
2020-07-16 3:22:06 PM  
Tfa says home, not apartment.

I assume those words are not interchangeable.

You can get a 1 bedroom apt for 600 a few miles from my house, and minimum wage here is almost ten an hour. That is affordable.  Or you can split a 2 bedroom with a friend for 800. Or rent a room from me for 400, as even at the high end of the income percentile I've always rented out my extra rooms to friends and family.


I support raising the minimum wage, fwiw. Jobs should pay living wages or cease to exist.
 
2020-07-16 3:37:41 PM  
And fwiw, my first apartment twenty years ago was also 600+ iirc  and there are still 1 bedroom apartments available at that price in that area. Minimum wage was 5-sonething an hour at that time.
 
2020-07-16 3:41:10 PM  

Geotpf: gadian: I see we're still pretending that the intent of the minimum wage was not a living wage.  The minimum wage was meant to be a living wage.  It was, in fact, "By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level. I mean the wages of a decent living".  It didn't matter your age or gender, race, etc., if you were working, you deserved a living wage - then and now.

https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files​/WHD/legacy/files/FairLaborStandAct.pd​f

No, the intent was to prevent starvation wages.  From the first page of the law above (the first Federal minimum wage in 1938), which explains the reasoning of Congress to pass it:

(a) The Congress finds that the existence, in industries engaged in commerce or in the production of goods for commerce, of labor conditions detrimental to the maintenance of the minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency, and general well-being of workers... [does a bunch of bad things]

Not a "decent" standard, not a "living wage"; merely a "minimum" standard.

Now, one can argue that such should be stronger than that, but that was never the original intent.

standard of living necessary for health, efficiency, and general well-being of workers

...

If only you'd read a little past the part you bolded :)
 
2020-07-16 7:10:43 PM  
Minimum Wage is for Minimum Skills.
This isn't difficult to comprehend.  No excuses.
 
2020-07-16 10:02:12 PM  

Security Ninja: Minimum Wage is for Minimum Skills.
This isn't difficult to comprehend.  No excuses.


You seem to be missing the point. Nobody is arguing minimum wage jobs are anything but the bottom of the barrel. They are arguing those humans still deserve a certain quality of life.
 
2020-07-17 2:48:54 AM  
If they can't afford an extra room, where are they going to put all their stuff?
 
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