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(Guardian)   Ranking the 25 greatest consoles. I'm sure this discussion will be calm and rational. Also, swap #1 with #2 and we are good   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Video game console, Wii, Nintendo, Nintendo Entertainment System, Mega Drive, Nintendo 64, rival consoles, broad games catalogue  
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1062 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jul 2020 at 8:36 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



76 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-07-16 6:37:06 AM  
This is clearly propaganda by an anti-TurboGrafx-16 lobby
 
2020-07-16 6:39:04 AM  
List fails without Pong
 
2020-07-16 6:51:07 AM  
No Atari in the top 3 is just plain wrong.
 
2020-07-16 6:59:46 AM  
Super NES was #1? There is zero rationale for that.

Also, Lynx was far more impressive than Jaguar. It was a color screen handheld in the market way before anyone else, with a better catalog.
 
2020-07-16 7:03:27 AM  
Ahh, crap. Console only. I should read closer.

Switch threw me off, because my kid never uses it as a console.
 
2020-07-16 7:12:50 AM  

cooldaddygroove: This is clearly propaganda by an anti-TurboGrafx-16 lobby


Don't worry, Johnny Turbo will sort them out.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-16 7:37:47 AM  
This is the greatest of all time.  Don't even try to deny it, nerds.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-16 7:51:59 AM  
water physics simulation game ahead of it's time
i.ebayimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-16 8:33:21 AM  
6. Famicom/Nintendo Entertainment System (1983)
4. Sega Mega Drive (1988)


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-16 8:37:01 AM  
Dreamcast deserves to be higher than that
 
2020-07-16 8:39:16 AM  
They put the Atari Jaguar at #24. This list, the person who wrote it, the person who gave it a green light, and the Guardian are now permanently invalid.
 
2020-07-16 8:44:45 AM  

Close2TheEdge: This is the greatest of all time.  Don't even try to deny it, nerds.

[Fark user image 480x640]


So, I did a Google Image Search on that and as best as they can tell, it's one of these:

Fark user imageView Full Size


And 80 years ago if you were a kid with one of those, you were as popular as a kid with an Atari game console in 1980.
 
2020-07-16 8:47:43 AM  
My console history:

Sega Master System II
PlayStation
PlayStation 2
XBox 360
PlayStation 4

I've moved on to PC now after my first build last year, but I've got to say the XBox game pass for PC is a bargain.
 
2020-07-16 8:55:37 AM  
"25. 3D0"

I guess there's only 25 consoles....
 
2020-07-16 8:56:24 AM  

freddyV: List fails without Pong


Pong is on the list.
 
2020-07-16 8:58:14 AM  
Ps2 would be over SNES for one major reason: in addition to the huge ps2 library it played all ps1 games as well.  Not to mention DVD's.

If the ps3 hadn't killed BC due to costs, I'd put it at number 1 for the same reason.
 
2020-07-16 8:58:16 AM  
I used to collect video game consoles. At one point I had everything on this list except for the 'visions and the Jaguar. I've got both versions of the Sega Master System knocking around somewhere, as well as all three versions of the Genesis.

I miss my collector days...
 
2020-07-16 9:02:21 AM  
The Amiga CD32 ought to be there. Although it was released as Commodore was going bankrupt, it still managed to be the best selling console during Christmas 1993, in relevant markets, until stock ran out, or rather, the stock they had, was locked up in the Philippines.

So what, it was still good, had an on game collection, and was compatible with the Amiga 1200 (it was an Amiga 1200 with a CD-drive and FMV module).

By adding a keyboard and mouse, you'd have a full computer, with its massive software library.


Who ever wrote this piece probably never heard of it, meaning the rest of their opinions are crap.
 
2020-07-16 9:02:23 AM  
No Odyssey2? Sure, the graphics sucked, but it had a keyboard which allowed games that were difficult to impossible to do on other consoles, had a computer programming cartridge (the 1st programming I did was on it), and created video\board game hybrids.
 
2020-07-16 9:06:52 AM  
See combination of
NES for essentially creating the console and being the first with mass market appeal
SNES just for being so much better than what came before jt
PS2 just for being so much better than what came before it

/Wii comes 3rd for proving never ever count Nintendo out
 
2020-07-16 9:08:15 AM  

italie: Super NES was #1? There is zero rationale for that.


Odd, since the second I read the headline, I assumed it would be #1.  It wasn't even in doubt for me.  And for most people my age (~40), a plurality would figure it had the top spot.

Of course, much of it will be based on age and what was in your gaming generation's "golden" age.  Slightly younger people will lean more towards the PS, PS2, XB360, etc.
 
2020-07-16 9:14:51 AM  
I can't believe the XBox 360 is so high.  It's fine as long as you completely ignore the RRoD
 
2020-07-16 9:16:01 AM  
Counting entire available library but no piracy or hacking or shiat? Peripherals and add-ons allowed? OK.

1) first-gen PS3, and it's not even a close call (almost the entire PSX, PS2, and PS3 libraries in one console, plus it's a blu-ray player, wireless controllers, kinda big but other stuff makes up for it)

2) Super Nintendo (GB and GBC carts also play in it, and its own library is outstanding)

3) PS2 (also has PSX library avaialable)

4) GameCube (also plays most GBA carts, and that is a damn good library)

Uhhhh gets kinda muddy after that, probably the 360 or XBone would be in the next 3-4, PS4 maybe, Wii maaaaybe on account of having the GC library too. PlayStation TV, too (yes, really).

No counting parts of the library that aren't "native"? I dunno but the top two are PS2 and SNES.
 
2020-07-16 9:24:34 AM  
First thing I thought of was PS2, so I totally agree with Subby.
 
2020-07-16 9:35:36 AM  
I've stopped following console news so the only thing I can add is how the fark has the switch been sold out at my local target for the since March? It's a three year old console.
 
2020-07-16 9:36:20 AM  

nmrsnr: First thing I thought of was PS2, so I totally agree with Subby.


Subby here. It's my primary system. I traded an old TV for a 360 at one point, ended up trading the 360 away because I liked my PS2 (slim)

FIFA 11 4eva
 
2020-07-16 9:36:25 AM  
Wow, I butchered that post.
 
2020-07-16 9:42:38 AM  
Ah crap I forgot the gameboy player on the GC also plays GB and GBC. Jesus. What's that, ten or more total Zeldas available on the system? Both NES Zeldas, both N64 zeldas, plus Windwaker, all on GC disks, plus every Zelda on the first three Nintendo handhelds? And that's just one franchise? Fark it, I change my list, GC is #2, bumping SNES down to 3.
 
2020-07-16 9:46:38 AM  

Cajnik: nmrsnr: First thing I thought of was PS2, so I totally agree with Subby.

Subby here. It's my primary system. I traded an old TV for a 360 at one point, ended up trading the 360 away because I liked my PS2 (slim)

FIFA 11 4eva


It had everything you could want in a console (at the time). Internet, DVD player, CD player, backwards compatible, and solid as a rock. I must have used that thing for a good decade before getting the PS3.
 
2020-07-16 10:00:44 AM  
How brain damaged is that article writer to put the PS3 at 14, Gamecube at 15, and the 360 at 3?
 
2020-07-16 10:00:53 AM  
Like every modern game takes stuff from ps2 era games.
 
2020-07-16 10:15:34 AM  
Fark user image

I do not get emotionally invested in stupid articles written by people who do not know what they are talking about -- precisely the kind of person who writes clickbait console ranking articles -- so I will instead make the point that it says something about consoles if the best console ever made has games that are largely inferior to anything that was coming out in the arcades.

If they had placed the Bop It at number one, then I would certainly not disagree with anyone here, as I "bop it" and "pull it" and "twist it", literally maximum depth on the path to infinite outcomes and replayability.
 
2020-07-16 10:17:34 AM  

Marcos P: "25. 3D0"

I guess there's only 25 consoles....


Heh, hey it wasn't that bad if you picked one up cheap, a guy I knew in the Navy who was transferring and didn't want to ship it out. Better than the Jaguar or Sega technology wise, IIRC it was the first CD based console? Had some nifty games too, and one fighting game introduced me to White Zombie.

For $600 new? Hard pass.
 
2020-07-16 10:21:44 AM  
Atari 2600 deserves #1 just for being the consol that started it all.
 
2020-07-16 10:26:48 AM  
1.  NES
2.  Super NES
3.  All others (mostly crap)

And yes, even today I play NES more than any other console.  It still has the best games.
 
2020-07-16 10:27:39 AM  

Marcos P: Like every modern game takes stuff from ps2 era games.


And 99% of modern games suck.
 
2020-07-16 10:29:08 AM  
List fails with Sega Saturn on it.
 
2020-07-16 10:34:53 AM  

kukukupo: 1.  NES
2.  Super NES
3.  All others (mostly crap)

And yes, even today I play NES more than any other console.  It still has the best games.


I acknowledge they are good but I truly do find any 2D Mario with more than one jump command to be excessively fiddly, and never really feel comfortable in them, so my GOAT Mario is SMB 3 on the NES and always will be.

/ meanwhile I used to play a ton of Mechwarrior and X-Wing with like 500 commands and all kinds of key combos and shiat, so, go figure.
 
2020-07-16 10:38:41 AM  
Oh and the first Bases Loaded on the NES is the only good console baseball game that's not on the Neo Geo and not named Base Wars. I will not budge from this fundamental and absolute truth.
 
Juc
2020-07-16 10:52:48 AM  
Atari should be way up there with how it basically started ... and then killed home consoles.
NES should be way up there for how it brought the home consoles back to life.

ps2 and snes are pretty pimp though I can see why the person put them as 1/2
 
2020-07-16 10:52:58 AM  
SNES #1 is good, Atari should be up there.
 
2020-07-16 10:59:22 AM  

kukukupo: Marcos P: Like every modern game takes stuff from ps2 era games.

And 99% of modern games suck.


99% of old games sucked as well.  We only tend to remember the stand outs in the sea of crap.

The best thing modern games took from the ps2 era was twin stick controls.  When timesplitters mapped Turoks C-buttons to a stick, it set the standard and at last fixed the camera issues that had so plagued 3d games to that point.

The lack of a second stick is what really hampered the Dreamcast in retrospect.  DC was great for single stick using arcade games, but couldn't handle the 3d games that were designed for consoles post ps2.

Kind of hampered the Wii as well.  Bounding boxes and waggle were no real substitute for proper twin stick camera controls.


As for the main topic, I find it difficult to rank the ps1 in retrospect.  At the time I thought it was an amazing console with a ton of great games, which is true.  It's just camera kills so many of those games in retrospect, more so than the sometimes wonky graphics.  There was so much innovation and experimentation that gen that it easily ranks in the top 10, it's just difficult to say exactly where.

SNES is pretty easy: it was the golden age of 2d pixel games.  It wasn't until the rise of modern indie games that we saw a proper resurgence there.
N64 was a great party console, but outside of about a dozen games it's total library was a small fraction of the number the ps1 had, including the number of stand out classic franchises.Ps3 is...the ps3.  the 60 gig version is one of the all time greats, but without BC it was always a bit inferior to the XB360 in many games, though it had far stronger asian development support.PS4 is all around better then the XB1, top 10 easily.  It's got a great library and strong support across the map.XB1 is good, but lags behind others if you had say, a PC.  Otherwise it's kind of in the same place as the ps3: everything was pretty much better on another console.Switch is good, but many of it's great games are last gen ports.  It always seems to feel more like playing a docked handheld rather then a portable home console though.  I'd rank it above the wii U and wii though.
 
2020-07-16 11:46:56 AM  

Gleeman: Marcos P: "25. 3D0"

I guess there's only 25 consoles....

Heh, hey it wasn't that bad if you picked one up cheap, a guy I knew in the Navy who was transferring and didn't want to ship it out. Better than the Jaguar or Sega technology wise, IIRC it was the first CD based console? Had some nifty games too, and one fighting game introduced me to White Zombie.

For $600 new? Hard pass.


Yeah it looked better, but its still the same games. Wow Sewer Shark and Ground Zero Texas in a higher resolution whoopee.

But for real Way Of The Warrior (the game with white zombie) was definitely neat, but like you said 600$ for that is madness.
 
2020-07-16 11:48:08 AM  

fallingcow: Oh and the first Bases Loaded on the NES is the only good console baseball game that's not on the Neo Geo and not named Base Wars. I will not budge from this fundamental and absolute truth.


What about Baseball Stars? I don't even like baseball but I enjoyed that game for some reason.
 
2020-07-16 12:03:05 PM  
1: Too lazy or stupid to get a picture of each console?
2: The 360 was hot garbage.
 
2020-07-16 12:17:38 PM  
Their list is a mess.

There have only been five dominant consoles that were actually consoles. Modern 'consoles' are just PCs with a specialized OS, so what we think of as consoles now are just PCs for people that want simple, portable, cheap, and with a controller included.

There have only been five actual consoles that dominated their eras:
Atari 2600/VCS - 1977-83
NES - 1983-90
SNES - 1990-95
Playstation - 1995-2000
Playstation 2 - 2000-2008

After that is just off-the-shelf PC parts in a small case.

If you want a top 2, it is PS2 and NES. They dominated for the longest time. If you owned one you used it for at least a decade. FYI - I never owned either. I went from Atari 2600 to Apple 2e to Amiga 2000 to PCs, so I don't really have a dog in the fight.

/turns out the master race won in the end...
 
2020-07-16 12:18:41 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: The Amiga CD32 ought to be there. Although it was released as Commodore was going bankrupt, it still managed to be the best selling console during Christmas 1993, in relevant markets, until stock ran out, or rather, the stock they had, was locked up in the Philippines.

So what, it was still good, had an on game collection, and was compatible with the Amiga 1200 (it was an Amiga 1200 with a CD-drive and FMV module).

By adding a keyboard and mouse, you'd have a full computer, with its massive software library.


Who ever wrote this piece probably never heard of it, meaning the rest of their opinions are crap.


Die hard Amiga nerd here (had a 1000, 500, 2000, 3000, 1200 and a 4000). It does not deserve to be on the list.  It had damn near 0% penetration in the market. If you're making a list of your favorite console. Sure, you can put it on there.  But no, it does not belong on any serious list of greatest consoles. It did nothing to change the market and virtually nobody had one.
 
2020-07-16 12:18:45 PM  
Mine
NES first
PS4 second
SNES third
N64 and Wii tied
Xbox360 as a notable mention

Was always more of a Nintendo gamer
 
2020-07-16 12:19:57 PM  

fallingcow: Oh and the first Bases Loaded on the NES is the only good console baseball game that's not on the Neo Geo and not named Base Wars. I will not budge from this fundamental and absolute truth.


Sorry, you misspelled Baseball Stars.  Just thought I'd point that out for you
 
2020-07-16 12:24:44 PM  
Console History:

Atari Pinball / Breakout
Atari VCS
NES
Genesis
PS
PS2
XBox 360 x 2 (fark Microsoft)
PS4
 
2020-07-16 12:27:17 PM  

kukukupo: fallingcow: Oh and the first Bases Loaded on the NES is the only good console baseball game that's not on the Neo Geo and not named Base Wars. I will not budge from this fundamental and absolute truth.

Sorry, you misspelled Baseball Stars.  Just thought I'd point that out for you


My man!
 
2020-07-16 12:30:40 PM  

cew-smoke: Ketchuponsteak: The Amiga CD32 ought to be there. Although it was released as Commodore was going bankrupt, it still managed to be the best selling console during Christmas 1993, in relevant markets, until stock ran out, or rather, the stock they had, was locked up in the Philippines.

So what, it was still good, had an on game collection, and was compatible with the Amiga 1200 (it was an Amiga 1200 with a CD-drive and FMV module).

By adding a keyboard and mouse, you'd have a full computer, with its massive software library.


Who ever wrote this piece probably never heard of it, meaning the rest of their opinions are crap.

Die hard Amiga nerd here (had a 1000, 500, 2000, 3000, 1200 and a 4000). It does not deserve to be on the list.  It had damn near 0% penetration in the market. If you're making a list of your favorite console. Sure, you can put it on there.  But no, it does not belong on any serious list of greatest consoles. It did nothing to change the market and virtually nobody had one.


Being that it was one of the greatest consoles, it does.

If you owned an a1200 or or a4000, you could play CD32 games btw., as we "helpfully" converted them for you. ;)

And as I believe I said, it was ranked #1 in sales, until it sold out, that ought to help you along in reassessing your opinion.
 
2020-07-16 12:30:53 PM  

cew-smoke: Die hard Amiga nerd here (had a 1000, 500, 2000, 3000, 1200 and a 4000). It does not deserve to be on the list.  It had damn near 0% penetration in the market. If you're making a list of your favorite console. Sure, you can put it on there.  But no, it does not belong on any serious list of greatest consoles. It did nothing to change the market and virtually nobody had one.


Eh, almost 5 million Amigas were sold - all on essentially the same OS and interoperable. That's more than about half of the consoles on that list. It sold much better in Europe with only moderate penetration in the US.

I still have my 105MB SCSI hard disk from my Amiga 2000 as a souvenir. I gave away the 2000 about ten years ago. The HDD failed, but everything else worked so it found a new home.

FYI - my Apple 2e still works perfectly. I am astounded that 40 year old 5.25 floppies haven't lost their data. I turn it on every couple years. Gotta get me some Hard Hat Mack action.
 
2020-07-16 12:44:21 PM  

Marcos P: Wow Sewer Shark and Ground Zero Texas in a higher resolution whoopee.


But isn't that still the case with the current generation of consoles? GTA 16 now in 4K on the PS5! Whee!


/ducks
//only console we currently use is the Swich others were collecting dust
///three, three slashies
 
2020-07-16 12:45:54 PM  

Gleeman: Marcos P: Wow Sewer Shark and Ground Zero Texas in a higher resolution whoopee.

But isn't that still the case with the current generation of consoles? GTA 16 now in 4K on the PS5! Whee!


/ducks
//only console we currently use is the Swich others were collecting dust
///three, three slashies


You're not wrong!
 
2020-07-16 1:28:44 PM  

stuhayes2010: Atari 2600 deserves #1 just for being the consol that started it all.


Came here to say this. Atari 2600 got my PARENTS playing video games, and Atari 2600 was the only game in town for quite a while, as I seem to recall.
 
2020-07-16 1:35:06 PM  

Slow To Return: stuhayes2010: Atari 2600 deserves #1 just for being the consol that started it all.

Came here to say this. Atari 2600 got my PARENTS playing video games, and Atari 2600 was the only game in town for quite a while, as I seem to recall.


Also, while I believe A2600 is by far and away the greatest console in the history of everything, my favorite console to date is the Switch.

My only complaints are the glacial pace at which first-party games are released and the incredible annoyance of "Joy-con drift"
 
2020-07-16 1:43:43 PM  

Marcos P: "25. 3D0"

I guess there's only 25 consoles....


They left off the Coleco Adam.  What my parents bought after our Commodore 64 crashed & my dad's friend couldn't fix it.   Probably would've been a cheap repair but this guy said he'd fix it so my dad let him try.  Turns out he had no idea what he was doing & we ended up with the crappy Adam with cassette tape games.

Still remember getting it for Christmas & having no idea what the hell it was.  My parents though, thought it was great & the cutting edge of what all computers & gaming systems would be like.

The next summer we pooled our cash & bought an NES.
 
2020-07-16 1:56:09 PM  

italie: Super NES was #1? There is zero rationale for that.

Also, Lynx was far more impressive than Jaguar. It was a color screen handheld in the market way before anyone else, with a better catalog.


It was ahead of its time in hardware, forced controllers to have enough buttons to actually do things, and had a massive library of good games that I don't think has been matched since... except perhaps by the PS2, which does very well on the same criteria, and is in fact is #2 on their list.

The problem with any of these lists of course, is that different criteria will get greatly different results. The NES basically saved the console industry after the clash of '83, so if influence is the main factor, that probably wins. If we're talking tech advancement, the Atari's the first one that really went anywhere, so it probably wins. If we're going by how many people had the thing, I think that's actually the Wii. If we're going by how many total game copies across all games were purchased for a given console, I think PS2 wins in raw numbers... but adjusted for how many countries PS2 could sell to that didn't have consoles in the 90s, SNES might take that.

So yeah, the SNES really isn't all that out-there of a choice, it's all a matter of what variables you're ranking by, and how you weight them.
 
2020-07-16 2:12:56 PM  
LOL @ Megadrive and not Genesis. Don't you know tech history is written by the Americans? Not to mention NES and Famicom being 2 completely different things. Maybe if I didn't have to import an AV Famicom so I didn't have to go to channel 95 to play my disk games? Also, floppy disk based games.

These lists are always a joke.

I see it as skipping this generation. So no switch, PS4, XBONEXX.

1) NES
2) ATARI
3) PS1
4) Wii
5) PS2
6) Dreamcast
7) Xbox 360
8) SNES
9) Genesis
10) TurboGrafx

Full disclosure, I am one of those morons who spends money on these things.
 
2020-07-16 2:18:30 PM  
Funny thing, of all my hardware the one thing I pick up and play the most is my Gameboy. If you have one, get the IPS mod Castlevania Games sells. The drop in version is super easy to deal with. Or find yourself an AGS-101. But those are $pendy.
 
2020-07-16 2:40:18 PM  

madgonad: Their list is a mess.

There have only been five dominant consoles that were actually consoles. Modern 'consoles' are just PCs with a specialized OS, so what we think of as consoles now are just PCs for people that want simple, portable, cheap, and with a controller included.

There have only been five actual consoles that dominated their eras:
Atari 2600/VCS - 1977-83
NES - 1983-90
SNES - 1990-95
Playstation - 1995-2000
Playstation 2 - 2000-2008

After that is just off-the-shelf PC parts in a small case.


Kind of defeats your point when the two first consoles you name were powered by the MOS6502 - the chip that was in basically every big platform since 1977.
 
2020-07-16 2:50:35 PM  
I'll judge a console by what games were specifically released for it, not for what older games it could play.  Otherwise, I'd have to list my current computer at the top, since it can play everything up to PS2 games with relative ease.

1. SNES - Easily the best library of stand-out games.  Squaresoft gave us the golden age of RPGs (Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, FF4 through FF6), Super Mario World is arguably the most impressive platform game of all time, there were plenty of good shooters, Link to the Past is the best Zelda, Earthbound is the most hilarious game ever, and so on.

2. PS2 - Just edges out the PSX.  Barely.  The PS2 had the best Megaten games, some great fighting games, Metal Gear Solid 3, Shadow Hearts, Xenosaga, Star Ocean 3, Suikoden 3-5, Wild Arms, Tales, and probably some others I'm forgetting.

3. PSX - Xenogears is my favorite game of all time, and the PSX had Final Fantasy Tactics, Star Ocean 2, Vagrant Story, Suikoden 1 and 2, and some other gems.

4. NES - Mega Man, Blaster Master, Bionic Commando, Super Mario Bros. 3, Castlevania, two good Zelda games, Star Tropics, Contra, and more.  The SNES may have more of my favorites than any other console, but when I think of the concept of a prototypical video game, I think of an NES game.  So, uh, now you know my age plus or minus three years.

5. Gameboy - I tend to think of the Nintendo handheld systems as one continuous entity, and it was always inferior to the main console of the era.  Still, I had my share of fun with Tetris, and later on I enjoyed Phoenix Wright on the DS.

6. Don't care.  PS3, maybe?  I stopped caring after the PS2's run ended.
 
2020-07-16 3:55:39 PM  

Slow To Return: stuhayes2010: Atari 2600 deserves #1 just for being the consol that started it all.

Came here to say this. Atari 2600 got my PARENTS playing video games, and Atari 2600 was the only game in town for quite a while, as I seem to recall.


Except that it was a terrible console, even among its peers of the time.  Well over 95% of the games were absolute garbage, its technical capabilities were non-existent and utterly ruined the recreated pseudo-ports, and it's pretty much responsible for the temporary death of the industry until the Famicom/NES rose up.

I still had one, and played it a lot between ages 5 and 9, but it wasn't a good system.
 
2020-07-16 4:04:22 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-16 4:04:47 PM  

I Like Bread: Kind of defeats your point when the two first consoles you name were powered by the MOS6502 - the chip that was in basically every big platform since 1977.


Atari was the cheap-ass 6507.
I would also point out that consoles back then weren't SoCs like today. The CPU was just the 'central' processor. Hell, Atari didn't even have a frame buffer. The TIA is bigger than the CPU (yeah, GPUs are bigger than CPUs are now too). There is also one or two RIOT chips.

Compare to the NES which used the full 6502 with way more memory. The NES also brings in the PPU which improved the graphics immensely. Better RF modulator for making actual sound versus a handful of beep tones. It also let the cartridges run the audio channels.
 
2020-07-16 4:05:25 PM  

kukukupo: fallingcow: Oh and the first Bases Loaded on the NES is the only good console baseball game that's not on the Neo Geo and not named Base Wars. I will not budge from this fundamental and absolute truth.

Sorry, you misspelled Baseball Stars.  Just thought I'd point that out for you


I carved out an exception for the Neo Geo for a reason, and half of that reason is Baseball Stars 2.

Is NES Baseball Stars one of the many on that platform with no computer control of your outfielders, and also no way to see any part of the outfield until the ball's there, making almost any hit that makes it past the infield at least a double, and often an in-the-park home run? That's the flaw that immediately removes most of them from the competition.
 
2020-07-16 4:22:52 PM  
My Atari VCS still works and is hooked up to my HD TV.  I can play ET on a 65" screen.  I have about 40 cartridges for it and pick up a few rare ones here and there when I find them.
 
2020-07-16 5:12:30 PM  

Khellendros: Slow To Return: stuhayes2010: Atari 2600 deserves #1 just for being the consol that started it all.

Came here to say this. Atari 2600 got my PARENTS playing video games, and Atari 2600 was the only game in town for quite a while, as I seem to recall.

Except that it was a terrible console, even among its peers of the time.  Well over 95% of the games were absolute garbage, its technical capabilities were non-existent and utterly ruined the recreated pseudo-ports, and it's pretty much responsible for the temporary death of the industry until the Famicom/NES rose up.

I still had one, and played it a lot between ages 5 and 9, but it wasn't a good system.


Who are you counting as its peers?  Atari VCS came out in 1977, Odyssey in 1978 and Intellivision in 1980.  Granted, the 2600 aged quickly, but by the time it was five years old and the Colecovision came out in 1982, the video game industry was still going strong.  George Plimpton was prime time advertising.  The "temporary death of the industry" didn't really happen until the Atari 2600 was already in its sunset years, and the PC was coming onto the scene.

I don't disagree that most of the games were crap and its technical abilities pale in comparison to the PS4.
 
2020-07-16 5:56:05 PM  
Sorry, subby. It was all over after Super Nintendo.
 
2020-07-16 6:05:57 PM  

Antimatter: kukukupo: Marcos P: Like every modern game takes stuff from ps2 era games.

And 99% of modern games suck.

99% of old games sucked as well.  We only tend to remember the stand outs in the sea of crap.

The best thing modern games took from the ps2 era was twin stick controls.  When timesplitters mapped Turoks C-buttons to a stick, it set the standard and at last fixed the camera issues that had so plagued 3d games to that point.

The lack of a second stick is what really hampered the Dreamcast in retrospect.  DC was great for single stick using arcade games, but couldn't handle the 3d games that were designed for consoles post ps2.

Kind of hampered the Wii as well.  Bounding boxes and waggle were no real substitute for proper twin stick camera controls.


As for the main topic, I find it difficult to rank the ps1 in retrospect.  At the time I thought it was an amazing console with a ton of great games, which is true.  It's just camera kills so many of those games in retrospect, more so than the sometimes wonky graphics.  There was so much innovation and experimentation that gen that it easily ranks in the top 10, it's just difficult to say exactly where.

SNES is pretty easy: it was the golden age of 2d pixel games.  It wasn't until the rise of modern indie games that we saw a proper resurgence there.
N64 was a great party console, but outside of about a dozen games it's total library was a small fraction of the number the ps1 had, including the number of stand out classic franchises.Ps3 is...the ps3.  the 60 gig version is one of the all time greats, but without BC it was always a bit inferior to the XB360 in many games, though it had far stronger asian development support.PS4 is all around better then the XB1, top 10 easily.  It's got a great library and strong support across the map.XB1 is good, but lags behind others if you had say, a PC.  Otherwise it's kind of in the same place as the ps3: everything was pretty much better on another console.Switch is good, but many of it's great games are last gen ports.  It always seems to feel more like playing a docked handheld rather then a portable home console though.  I'd rank it above the wii U and wii though.


You could play GoldenEye with dual sticks. You just had to use two controllers to do it.
 
2020-07-16 6:33:18 PM  

madgonad: I Like Bread: Kind of defeats your point when the two first consoles you name were powered by the MOS6502 - the chip that was in basically every big platform since 1977.

Atari was the cheap-ass 6507.
I would also point out that consoles back then weren't SoCs like today. The CPU was just the 'central' processor. Hell, Atari didn't even have a frame buffer. The TIA is bigger than the CPU (yeah, GPUs are bigger than CPUs are now too). There is also one or two RIOT chips.

Compare to the NES which used the full 6502 with way more memory. The NES also brings in the PPU which improved the graphics immensely. Better RF modulator for making actual sound versus a handful of beep tones. It also let the cartridges run the audio channels.


The MOS6502 had many revisions but is still considered one family. And yes: some platforms had different amounts of memory, different sound and video capabilities, et cetera. Still a diversion from your original point that older consoles weren't just low-spec PCs when the MOS chip was as conventional as it gets (to a lesser extent, Zilog Z80 or Motorola 68k).

So I think we can agree that, all things considered, developing for every 6502-based platform then is relative to developing for every amd64-based platform today.
 
2020-07-16 7:05:30 PM  

neveranything: They put the Atari Jaguar at #24. This list, the person who wrote it, the person who gave it a green light, and the Guardian are now permanently invalid.


They left the TI 99-4/A off the list for the Jaguar and the 3DO. There is no justice in this world for Munch Man.
 
2020-07-16 9:07:57 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: Antimatter: kukukupo: Marcos P: Like every modern game takes stuff from ps2 era games.

And 99% of modern games suck.

99% of old games sucked as well.  We only tend to remember the stand outs in the sea of crap.

The best thing modern games took from the ps2 era was twin stick controls.  When timesplitters mapped Turoks C-buttons to a stick, it set the standard and at last fixed the camera issues that had so plagued 3d games to that point.

The lack of a second stick is what really hampered the Dreamcast in retrospect.  DC was great for single stick using arcade games, but couldn't handle the 3d games that were designed for consoles post ps2.

Kind of hampered the Wii as well.  Bounding boxes and waggle were no real substitute for proper twin stick camera controls.


As for the main topic, I find it difficult to rank the ps1 in retrospect.  At the time I thought it was an amazing console with a ton of great games, which is true.  It's just camera kills so many of those games in retrospect, more so than the sometimes wonky graphics.  There was so much innovation and experimentation that gen that it easily ranks in the top 10, it's just difficult to say exactly where.

SNES is pretty easy: it was the golden age of 2d pixel games.  It wasn't until the rise of modern indie games that we saw a proper resurgence there.
N64 was a great party console, but outside of about a dozen games it's total library was a small fraction of the number the ps1 had, including the number of stand out classic franchises.Ps3 is...the ps3.  the 60 gig version is one of the all time greats, but without BC it was always a bit inferior to the XB360 in many games, though it had far stronger asian development support.PS4 is all around better then the XB1, top 10 easily.  It's got a great library and strong support across the map.XB1 is good, but lags behind others if you had say, a PC.  Otherwise it's kind of in the same place as the ps3: everything was pretty much better on another console.Switch is good, but many of it's great games are last gen ports.  It always seems to feel more like playing a docked handheld rather then a portable home console though.  I'd rank it above the wii U and wii though.

You could play GoldenEye with dual sticks. You just had to use two controllers to do it.


Perfect Dark on the Xbox 360 is the exact same game as it was on the N64, but with upscaled textures and 720p (1080p maybe?) output... and modern two-stick controls. It's glorious.
 
2020-07-16 10:55:29 PM  

Khellendros: italie: Super NES was #1? There is zero rationale for that.

Odd, since the second I read the headline, I assumed it would be #1.  It wasn't even in doubt for me.  And for most people my age (~40), a plurality would figure it had the top spot.

Of course, much of it will be based on age and what was in your gaming generation's "golden" age.  Slightly younger people will lean more towards the PS, PS2, XB360, etc.


NES ran circles around SNES with titles, originality, and just plain fun.You can't beat the OG.
 
2020-07-17 10:27:04 AM  

I Like Bread: The MOS6502 had many revisions but is still considered one family. And yes: some platforms had different amounts of memory, different sound and video capabilities, et cetera. Still a diversion from your original point that older consoles weren't just low-spec PCs when the MOS chip was as conventional as it gets (to a lesser extent, Zilog Z80 or Motorola 68k).

So I think we can agree that, all things considered, developing for every 6502-based platform then is relative to developing for every amd64-based platform today.


Kinda, but AMD64 can be a SoC. Some even include the GPU. Consoles in the 80s had a significant number of what we consider computer components on the CARTRIDGE. Hell, some cartridges could save your games. The design was completely different back then. The CPU was just the central controller and all of the other parts that defined the platform were specialized. Maybe compare it to the Raspberry Pi when constructing elaborate 'things' today. The performance of the central core was good enough for a lot of things, it is just the components attached to it that make new products.
 
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