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(Mother Jones)   American patriots who are pulling down monuments dedicated to white supremacy take a moment out and pull the Electoral College down. It needs to go   (motherjones.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Election, United States presidential election, Voting, Elections, Washington, D.C., President of the United States, Southern United States, Electoral College  
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1434 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jul 2020 at 4:54 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-15 3:47:23 PM  
yes it does, it's a antiquated concept.
 
2020-07-15 3:55:50 PM  
The Electoral College was a great idea, because it meant that insane candidates could never rule this country.

But it failed so massively, and so horribly, 4 years ago, it proved that it is no longer working.
 
2020-07-15 4:07:34 PM  

Cafe Threads: The Electoral College was a great idea, because it meant that insane candidates could never rule this country.

But it failed so massively, and so horribly, 4 years ago, it proved that it is no longer working.


I'd question if it was ever working in that regard.
 
2020-07-15 4:29:13 PM  

Bootleg: Cafe Threads: The Electoral College was a great idea, because it meant that insane candidates could never rule this country.

But it failed so massively, and so horribly, 4 years ago, it proved that it is no longer working.

I'd question if it was ever working in that regard.


Or working exactly as intended.
 
2020-07-15 4:30:12 PM  
You'll need a bit more than a pickup truck and a tow chain though.
 
2020-07-15 4:56:10 PM  
Can't win an election?  Your policies are garbage and people hate them?  Change your policies?  HELL NO!  Try to burn the constitution!  That's the only logical way!
 
2020-07-15 4:57:39 PM  

capt_sensible: yes it does, it's a antiquated concept.


Its garbage. 100%.

No other nation on earth uses anything even remotely like it, Hell we only use it for one thing, and nothing else, why aren't there local electoral collages for Mayor, or Governor etc.

Because its a trash compromise from a trash era written by trash people.
 
2020-07-15 4:58:50 PM  
I trust everyone who thinks it should be dissolved understands why it is in place?
 
2020-07-15 4:58:54 PM  

Bootleg: Cafe Threads: The Electoral College was a great idea, because it meant that insane candidates could never rule this country.

But it failed so massively, and so horribly, 4 years ago, it proved that it is no longer working.

I'd question if it was ever working in that regard.


Every time the elector collage has picked the popular vote loser it has been varying degrees of disaster.
 
2020-07-15 4:59:22 PM  
Without the EC, the Republicans wouldn't have won the presidency from 1992 forward.
 
2020-07-15 4:59:42 PM  
Land don't vote.
 
2020-07-15 5:00:34 PM  
Yay! Low wage slaves in flyover country have no say in our government while paper pushers in the city get to force us into even worse slave-like conditions.
Just try to act like Chinese slavery isn't the fault of city dwellers and their get rich without really trying schemes.
 
2020-07-15 5:01:06 PM  
The EC was created to protect slave states.
 
2020-07-15 5:01:25 PM  
Top of my list is racist farking idiots who are too stupid not to vote against their own self interest and are fooled by the most obvious propaganda with production values of a kindergarten play.

but yeah, sure, electoral college.  Shoot it.  Drown it.  Bury it, dig it up, shoot it again.
 
2020-07-15 5:01:53 PM  
It sucks, but there isn't really a feasible mechanism to get rid of it. Maaaaybe the national popular vote compact.
 
2020-07-15 5:02:07 PM  
Americans Dont Need College.
 
2020-07-15 5:02:23 PM  
Just tell the derpers that we need to bring down the electoral college because colleges are always trying to indoctrinate kids with liberal ideas.
 
2020-07-15 5:03:06 PM  

RussianPotato: Can't win an election?  Your policies are garbage and people hate them?  Change your policies?  HELL NO!  Try to burn the constitution!  That's the only logical way!


I agree, the GOP needs to be stopped. No enemy of the United States has done as much damage, to the Constitution or to the country as a whole, as those corrupt, evil traitors.
 
2020-07-15 5:03:22 PM  
Land shouldn't get to vote
 
2020-07-15 5:03:46 PM  

RussianPotato: Can't win an election?  Your policies are garbage and people hate them?  Change your policies?  HELL NO!  Try to burn the constitution!  That's the only logical way!


This is going to blow your mind, but the Constitution contains instructions for how to change the Constitution.
 
2020-07-15 5:05:02 PM  
Be careful pulling it down, it'll be dangerous if it's still plugged in.
 
2020-07-15 5:05:29 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Top of my list is racist farking idiots who are too stupid not to vote against their own self interest and are fooled by the most obvious propaganda with production values of a kindergarten play.

but yeah, sure, electoral college.  Shoot it.  Drown it.  Bury it, dig it up, shoot it again.


Yes, let us eviscerate these untermensch!
 
2020-07-15 5:07:15 PM  

Cafe Threads: The Electoral College was a great idea, because it meant that insane candidates could never rule this country.

But it failed so massively, and so horribly, 4 years ago, it proved that it is no longer working.


It was straight-up explicitly an institution solely founded for the preservation of slavery and nothing else.

I mean, I actually kind of agree with the post-hoc rationalizations about it being some sort of shield against populism in principle, but it's important to remember that those explanations of what it did are post-hoc rationalizations, not what the thing was designed for or intended to accomplish.  Because the fact that it was never actually designed to be a shield against populism in general and solely and specifically designed as a mechanism to preserve only the institution of slavery and nothing else is pretty much why that after-the-fact tacked-on nominal purpose was so absurdly trivial to undermine and turn into a tool of stupidity and oppression.

Like... oh, no, they turned the thing that was originally intentionally designed to be a tool of stupidity and oppression into a tool of stupidity and oppression, quelle surprise.

To be clear, here, again I'm not saying that the after-the-fact argument in favor of the EC that no one even pretended was a thing until a century after the country was founded is necessarily wrong in the philosophical sense, I'm just pointing out that if someone has convinced you that it's the actual intent of the institution they're selling you basically the same exact bill of goods that the "the Civil War wasn't about slavery" people are selling, probably for similar reasons.
 
2020-07-15 5:08:35 PM  

sinner4ever: Yay! Low wage slaves in flyover country have no say in our government while paper pushers in the city get to force us into even worse slave-like conditions.
Just try to act like Chinese slavery isn't the fault of city dwellers and their get rich without really trying schemes.


They have their own little feifdom governor to vote for.  Kansas voters farked Kansas more than coastal dwellers ever have.
 
2020-07-15 5:08:46 PM  
Rarely is the question asked: Is our electorals learning?
 
2020-07-15 5:09:00 PM  
Anyone that wants the EC to go needs to start pressuring their state to join the interstate compact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa​l​_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

It's the only realistic way it is going to change any time soon. Does anyone really think we are going to amend the Constitution???

That last SCOTUS ruling actually went in our favor on this.
 
2020-07-15 5:09:09 PM  

YabbaDabbaDouchebag: Without the EC, the Republicans wouldn't have won the presidency from 1992 forward.


Dubya won 2004 handily.
 
2020-07-15 5:09:13 PM  

kbronsito: Just tell the derpers that we need to bring down the electoral college because colleges are always trying to indoctrinate kids with liberal ideas.


The Electoral College elected Obama
 
2020-07-15 5:10:04 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: RussianPotato: Can't win an election?  Your policies are garbage and people hate them?  Change your policies?  HELL NO!  Try to burn the constitution!  That's the only logical way!

This is going to blow your mind, but the Constitution contains instructions for how to change the Constitution.


Yes, and unicorn farts provide infinite clean energy.
 
2020-07-15 5:10:13 PM  
Oh good this thread again, maybe is fark green light this enough times something will change.
 
2020-07-15 5:10:26 PM  

etoof: kbronsito: Just tell the derpers that we need to bring down the electoral college because colleges are always trying to indoctrinate kids with liberal ideas.

The Electoral College elected Obama


Obama won by 10M votes in 2008 and 5M in 2012.
 
2020-07-15 5:10:34 PM  

wakizashi: I trust everyone who thinks it should be dissolved understands why it is in place?


As was already pointed out, the EC is one reason why Republicans don't have to change their policies to actually appeal to voters, they can continue being corrupt sh*tbags because all they need to do is manage to win a plurality of votes in enough states to push them over the line and the ridiculous concept of the EC will award them the White House.

When the EC has failed so spectacularly TWICE within 20 years, it's certainly time to give it a long, hard look.
 
2020-07-15 5:11:04 PM  

tricycleracer: etoof: kbronsito: Just tell the derpers that we need to bring down the electoral college because colleges are always trying to indoctrinate kids with liberal ideas.

The Electoral College elected Obama

Obama won by 10M votes in 2008 and 5M in 2012.


I was providing another option to get the derpers on board
 
2020-07-15 5:11:16 PM  

LordJiro: RussianPotato: Can't win an election?  Your policies are garbage and people hate them?  Change your policies?  HELL NO!  Try to burn the constitution!  That's the only logical way!

I agree, the GOP needs to be stopped. No enemy of the United States has done as much damage, to the Constitution or to the country as a whole, as those corrupt, evil traitors.


Their enablers that pretend to be their enemies have done the most damage because they allow them to go more extreme with no pushback.
Food and other helpful programs put into place by Roosevelt and after have had Democrat help in killing them(most through defunding)including the unions. The worst is when Democrats actually funded Child concentration camps at the border to act like they were trying to work with republicans.
 
2020-07-15 5:11:28 PM  
The electoral college isn't a physical structure FFS mother jones.
 
2020-07-15 5:11:35 PM  

etoof: tricycleracer: etoof: kbronsito: Just tell the derpers that we need to bring down the electoral college because colleges are always trying to indoctrinate kids with liberal ideas.

The Electoral College elected Obama

Obama won by 10M votes in 2008 and 5M in 2012.

I was providing another option to get the derpers on board


My bad.  On my 3rd vodka soda.
 
2020-07-15 5:13:24 PM  
Nope it doesn't need to go, you just need to compromise and enlarge your base (the democrats are the big tent party last I recall) and win over more states to your ideals.

Which is work... but we all know you are all too lazy to do it.
 
2020-07-15 5:13:35 PM  

tricycleracer: etoof: tricycleracer: etoof: kbronsito: Just tell the derpers that we need to bring down the electoral college because colleges are always trying to indoctrinate kids with liberal ideas.

The Electoral College elected Obama

Obama won by 10M votes in 2008 and 5M in 2012.

I was providing another option to get the derpers on board

My bad.  On my 3rd vodka soda.


No worries. I got high one night and wrote out a long, poorly thought out reply to some farker a few weeks ago. Hit submit, then couldn't find my comment anywhere.

Turns out I posted it to Facebook instead. Lots of confused people in the ensuing thread.
 
2020-07-15 5:13:46 PM  
AMENDMENT XXVIII

Section 1.  The twelfth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Section 2.  The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.  He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen jointly, by the people of the several states, and for the same term, be elected as follows:

The people shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice President.

Section 3.
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.  The person having the greatest number of votes for President and Vice President shall be elected President and Vice President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of votes cast.  If no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers of votes not exceeding two on the list of those voted for as President, the people shall, by subsequent ballot conducted within thirty days, choose the President and Vice President.

Section 4.
With respect to all elections conducted under this article, the executives in each state shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate.

Section 5.
No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President, by virtue of being twice elected to that office or otherwise, shall be eligible to that of Vice President of the United States.
 
2020-07-15 5:15:00 PM  

wakizashi: I trust everyone who thinks it should be dissolved understands why it is in place?


To maintain the power of wealthy, propertied, white, Christian men before the internet, telephone, or telegraph in an economy driven by chattel race-based slavery?
 
2020-07-15 5:15:38 PM  

dwrash: Nope it doesn't need to go, you just need to compromise and enlarge your base (the democrats are the big tent party last I recall) and win over more states to your ideals.

Which is work... but we all know you are all too lazy to do it.


The problem is centrists only care about the Republican base leaving the people wanting an actual opposition stance without representation.
The two parties are fighting over the same 30% boomer base.
 
2020-07-15 5:16:28 PM  
Straight up Democracy doesnt work. Just look what happened in Ancient Greece. People that want change so bad need to stop being stupid first.
 
2020-07-15 5:16:45 PM  

tricycleracer: etoof: kbronsito: Just tell the derpers that we need to bring down the electoral college because colleges are always trying to indoctrinate kids with liberal ideas.

The Electoral College elected Obama

Obama won by 10M votes in 2008 and 5M in 2012.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-15 5:18:24 PM  
It does and if you have a suitable replacement, by all means roll it out and explain it to us and get some frustrated people with lots of money start backing it up.

Oh, and kick Putin in the dick.  We got to put that in the process somewhere.  Square in the dick.
 
2020-07-15 5:18:32 PM  
Let me explain something. I don't like the EC also BUT we need to understand getting rid of it with the same system we have in place now could make everything worse.

Why?

Because each state make their own voting laws.You can be an eligible voter in one state and not another.

Why is this a problem?

Because this allows states to RIG the voter turnout.

If I am in a red state I can pass laws like felons can vote etc., to lower the vote for certain groups. Or I can make it so everyone automatically gets registered. If I am a governor of a state of a different party I could make it harder for people to vote.

Yes this was a problem too for EC but it was only limited in that state. You could use it to help manipulate for the vote in your state only. But when you take the EC out you can manipulate the vote for the entire election (at least if your a bigger state)

A party in control of a state could pass more or less restrictive vote rules to game the system.

We need national election laws so everyone is playing on the same field and vote numbers can't be manipulated for population vote to work.
 
2020-07-15 5:18:46 PM  
lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-15 5:19:25 PM  

dwrash: Nope it doesn't need to go, you just need to compromise and enlarge your base (the democrats are the big tent party last I recall) and win over more states to your ideals.

Which is work... but we all know you are all too lazy to do it.


Oh man when Texas turns blue soon you are really going to be crying about what you said.
 
2020-07-15 5:20:28 PM  
TEACHER: "Show of hands class...who thinks we should have a pizza party at the end of the year, and who thinks we should have a liver & onions party?"

Counts the votes

TEACHER: "Well, the votes are in. A vast majority of you want pizza. But instead we're having liver & onions, because those students were sitting at desks that have more value."

STUDENT: "Wait, what? That doesn't make sense and it isn't fair."

TEACHER: "Why do you hate America?"


And...scene.
 
2020-07-15 5:21:17 PM  

RussianPotato: Can't win an election?  Your policies are garbage and people hate them?  Change your policies?  HELL NO!  Try to burn the constitution!  That's the only logical way!


That is the best explanation why the Republicans are desperate to keep the Electoral College alive I have ever seen.

Thanks for clarifying it for everyone.
 
2020-07-15 5:21:35 PM  

sinner4ever: dwrash: Nope it doesn't need to go, you just need to compromise and enlarge your base (the democrats are the big tent party last I recall) and win over more states to your ideals.

Which is work... but we all know you are all too lazy to do it.

The problem is centrists only care about the Republican base leaving the people wanting an actual opposition stance without representation.
The two parties are fighting over the same 30% boomer base.


The problem is that people don't understand that the EC and Apportionment were both tilted against slavery (by under representing the south's population).  So no, the EC is not a White Supremacist institution... it was a nod to the fact that the south could have just kept importing slaves and amassed the most representation in congress by the almighty dollar.   the 3/5th's clause diminished their power and was a nod to the fact that the framers viewed slavery as an institution on its way out. It wasn't soon after that congress ended the practice of slave importation all together.

Basic math apparently is really, really hard for some people like Pema Levy.. but its apparently not important that you have a basic grasp on the concept to get hired by Mother Jones.

And if you don't believe me, just read some of Frederick Douglass' speeches about it.
 
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